ANet, please bring back player character pronouns

[DancingShadow.5689]

THIS IS IN NO WAY AGAINST NON-BINARY PEOPLE, IT ONLY CONCERNS THE PLAYER CHARACTER. I'm not trying to argue about real world views of non-binary folks, I just want to give ANet some genuine feedback/advice and see what other people think about the issue, so please be nice.

I've been enjoying SoTO's story so far, but having my character called they/them after 10 years of being a she feels incredibly impersonal and somewhat ruins the immersion for me. I get that it's more work to give our characters pronouns, and most games don't even bother, but it's one of the smaller things that made me fall in love with gw2, and now that it's gone after I got used to it... that love is being tested (look at me getting all poetic heh).
ANet, please please please consider changing this back in the future releases. I don't know if it was because of limited time or if you just wanted to cut the costs, but either way it has a bigger impact than I'd have thought possible, and in my opinion is definitely worth the extra effort to change. I think even eventually going back to revise it in acts 1-4 would be worth it (though I understand computers about as well as an ettin so I have no idea how difficult, if even possible, that would be). I love the story, I love the game, and I want to keep playing, so please keep giving it the love you have (and thank you for that by the way).

Again, no problem whatsoever with non-binary folks, just giving feedback to hopefully better the game.

Edited September 4, 2023 by DancingShadow.5689

[Xelqypla.6817]

Keep it as "they".

I don't really care, but it probably saves time and money.

[kharmin.7683]

Exactly, it is a money saver.  I highly doubt that Anet decided to do this on purpose because of current events.  This way, the VA needed only to record their lines once and the programmers didn't have to do anything extra to delineate between male/female characters when dialogues occur.

[Balsa.3951]

lol who cares

they is perfect if everyone like u start asking their proper pronounce we.end.up with 100

also side note for lols Ranger with pet, engi with mech and necro with minon are perfect for be called they 😀

pps many languages don't even use he she as gender differention.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[Chichimec.9364]

This is in no way against the OP but I never even noticed the change. Out of all the things in the game that need reworking/fixing, pronouns wouldn't even be on the bottom of my list, they/them wouldn't make it on my list at all. The broken defense mechanics in WvW, the Alliance beta that was supposed to happen this summer but instead seems to have disappeared, without a word from Anet, those are the things that concern me. Again, no problem whatsoever with the OP, I'm just giving feedback on what I think would make a better game.

[DancingShadow.5689]

1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said:

lol who cares

they is perfect if everyone like u start asking their proper pronounce we.end.up with 100

also side note for lols Ranger with pet, engi with mech and necro with minon are perfect for be called they 😀

pps many languages don't even use he she as gender differention.

Yeah no I'm not asking them to accomodate every single white kid who suddenly identifies as whatever/whatnot just because it's in, I just want to keep the story as it was in this regard, because the previous dialogue quality has me kinda spoiled. If there weren't pronouns to begin with, I would have no problem whatsoever, but there were.

While the ranger/necro/engi is a good point and will make it easier for me while replaying the story, my main is a revenant so no help there

[Crono.4197]

Last time this topic was addressed, ArenaNet deleted the whole thread, so it's pretty obvious it's on purpose and not a "cost cutting change".

[phandaria.4891]

9 hours ago, DancingShadow.5689 said:

I've been enjoying SoTO's story so far, but having my character called they/them after 10 years of being a she feels incredibly impersonal and somewhat ruins the immersion for me.

Again, in which part of the content the Commander was called they/them? I really really never noticed it. All I heard was commander or wayfarer. Please be specific on the chapter and instance.

[DancingShadow.5689]

35 minutes ago, phandaria.4891 said:

Again, in which part of the content the Commander was called they/them? I really really never noticed it. All I heard was commander or wayfarer. Please be specific on the chapter and instance.

Pretty much anywhere anyone talks about you to another character. Hell Breaks Loose when Zojja finds you, and in that instance where you fight the ettin lady and Zojja talks to her about you is the most noticeable (I'm out right now so can't check but I think it was something like Mother of Stars?)

[DancingShadow.5689]

2 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

This is in no way against the OP but I never even noticed the change. Out of all the things in the game that need reworking/fixing, pronouns wouldn't even be on the bottom of my list, they/them wouldn't make it on my list at all. The broken defense mechanics in WvW, the Alliance beta that was supposed to happen this summer but instead seems to have disappeared, without a word from Anet, those are the things that concern me. Again, no problem whatsoever with the OP, I'm just giving feedback on what I think would make a better game.

That's good! I'm glad it doesn't bother you

[DancingShadow.5689]

56 minutes ago, Crono.4197 said:

Last time this topic was addressed, ArenaNet deleted the whole thread, so it's pretty obvious it's on purpose and not a "cost cutting change".

What do you mean? I can't think of a purpose that they wouldn't address other than that they got lazy

[Futa.4375]

Those thinking that this was for budget reasons are delusional. And indeed, every thread that talked about this were deleted.

[phandaria.4891]

27 minutes ago, DancingShadow.5689 said:

Pretty much anywhere anyone talks about you to another character. Hell Breaks Loose when Zojja finds you, and in that instance where you fight the ettin lady and Zojja talks to her about you is the most noticeable (I'm out right now so can't check but I think it was something like Mother of Stars?)

Unknown... Mursaat?: Traveling through the Mists can be taxing on the mind.

Not Taimi: They've got experience with this kind of thing. You'll pull through, huh?

Not Taimi: Hi there, Commander. Been a while.

Burly Norn: We need to keep moving, Zojja. How's your friend doing?

Zojja: They're fine, they're fine! Little rift-lagged, is all.

<Character name>: Rift-lagged... and... Zojja? What are you doing here?

Dagda: You brought the Harbinger? To kill me...?

Zojja: They're here to help! They're a friend!

Dagda: They're here to end me, as they've ended so many others.

I see, these are the excerpts of what you mentioned. In my opinion, I still feel this is a cost cutting/content cutting measure, whereas they don't need to include multiple voice lines to differentiate he/she. These lines were so easily missed and not in your face like Yao. Either way your feedback is valid and Arenanet could make changes to it.

At least, it is possible to change the script to exclude any politicized pronoun. For example:

They're fine => Should be fine.

They're here to help! They're a friend! They're here to end me as they've ended so many others => We're here to help! We're allies! You are here to end me, like all the others you have slain.

Edited September 5, 2023 by phandaria.4891

[Balsa.3951]

2 hours ago, DancingShadow.5689 said:

Yeah no I'm not asking them to accomodate every single white kid who suddenly identifies as whatever/whatnot just because it's in, I just want to keep the story as it was in this regard, because the previous dialogue quality has me kinda spoiled. If there weren't pronouns to begin with, I would have no problem whatsoever, but there were.

While the ranger/necro/engi is a good point and will make it easier for me while replaying the story, my main is a revenant so no help there

as Revenant u are up to 4 individuals in one. it could not get better for u 😉

[godfat.2604]

37 minutes ago, phandaria.4891 said:

Unknown... Mursaat?: Traveling through the Mists can be taxing on the mind.

Not Taimi: They've got experience with this kind of thing. You'll pull through, huh?

Not Taimi: Hi there, Commander. Been a while.

Burly Norn: We need to keep moving, Zojja. How's your friend doing?

Zojja: They're fine, they're fine! Little rift-lagged, is all.

<Character name>: Rift-lagged... and... Zojja? What are you doing here?

Dagda: You brought the Harbinger? To kill me...?

Zojja: They're here to help! They're a friend!

Dagda: They're here to end me, as they've ended so many others.

Thanks for the quotes. I admit I didn't pay full attention but I never noticed where they/them is used to refer to the commander, so I was wondering. Reading the quotes here I do remember! This completely slipped my mind because I was always playing the stories with my friends, and we have 3, so I just felt natural to be referred to "them" in this case. I didn't realize this is specifically referring to the commander :sweat-smile:

Perhaps I am also very used to play RPGs where the main character has quite some companies to form a party. Even in Guild Wars 1 most of the missions are supposed to be played in a party as well.

Maybe the other way for Anet to fix this is to give the commander a company. Probably too late for SotO but maybe consider that in the future story telling. There are so many ways to address this as a lot of people already suggested in this thread and other (deleted) threads.

[Tere.4759]

I noticed the change right away.  I also have no problem with non binary people but I am binary and don't wish to be called they so I agree with the OP.  If Anet chooses to do that, they should have a tag implemented "what do you wish to be called" and then change that pronoun to whatever the player wishes to be called.  I'm sure there are only a few who wish to be called they.  Baldur's Gate 3 did a really nice job with that.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Tere.4759

[DreamyAbaddon.3265]

I haven't played the story yet for this expansion but from reading the lines you guys quotes... I don't like how I am going to be referred to as a plural pronoun. It is weird and doesn't feel natural to me. I have both male and female characters and I much prefer my characters to be referred to as their biological pronouns / traditional pronouns since that is what I wanted when I made them. If you want to add non-binary pronouns as an option for players to choose that's fine with me. But I want the option to keep the pronouns I've been using traditionally in game otherwise it will break my immersion when role playing my character's stories.

[DreamyAbaddon.3265]

2 minutes ago, Tere.4759 said:

I noticed the change right away.  I also have no problem with non binary people but I am binary and don't wish to be called they so I agree with the OP.  If Anet chooses to do that, they should have a tag implemented "what do you wish to be called" and then change that pronoun whatever the player wishes to be called.  I'm sure there are only a few who wish to be called they.

Yeah, I agree with this. My characters are all binary just like me and I don't want them to be something they never was.

[Tere.4759]

9 minutes ago, DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

I haven't played the story yet for this expansion but from reading the lines you guys quotes... I don't like how I am going to be referred to as a plural pronoun. It is weird and doesn't feel natural to me. I have both male and female characters and I much prefer my characters to be referred to as their biological pronouns / traditional pronouns since that is what I wanted when I made them. If you want to add non-binary pronouns as an option for players to choose that's fine with me. But I want the option to keep the pronouns I've been using traditionally in game otherwise it will break my immersion when role playing my character's stories.

I also have male and female characters and they are all he and she, none of them are they. And if it was noticed by me right away who has tons of stuff going on in the background while I am playing, then I'm sure it was the same for many other people who are not on this forum.  I hate the word "woke" but in this instance, it should have never been done or Anet should have done what BG3 did and put a flag in.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Tere.4759

[DreamyAbaddon.3265]

8 minutes ago, Tere.4759 said:

I also have male and female characters and they are all he and she, none of them are they. And if it was noticed by me right away who has tons of stuff going on in the background while I am playing, then I'm sure it was the same for many other people who are not on this forum.  I hate the word "woke" but in this instance, it should have never been done or Anet should have done with BG3 did and put a flag in.

If an NPC refers to me with the pronoun They/them, I would assume it's plural and they are referring to either my group or someone else's group. I have no idea sadly.  I would have never guessed the NPC was referring to me specifically and that would be enough to break my immersion in a story. It's unexpected and no offense to non-binary people but, the way those pronouns are used sounds like broken English to me. It's really hard to enjoy a good story if the language feels unnatural to me personally... I was fine with YAO to be honest... because it's YAO... But my characters are not Yao and Yao is just one person who's like that so... whatever.

Edited September 5, 2023 by DreamyAbaddon.3265

[Hotride.2187]

5 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Exactly, it is a money saver.  I highly doubt that Anet decided to do this on purpose because of current events.  This way, the VA needed only to record their lines once and the programmers didn't have to do anything extra to delineate between male/female characters when dialogues occur.

It will save even more money to just cut the story. If that is what this is about.

[Xelqypla.6817]

15 minutes ago, DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

If an NPC refers to me with the pronoun They/them, I would assume it's plural and they are referring to either my group or someone else's group. I have no idea sadly.  I would have never guessed the NPC was referring to me specifically and that would be enough to break my immersion in a story. It's unexpected and no offense to non-binary people but, the way those pronouns are used sounds like broken English to me. It's really hard to enjoy a good story if the language feels unnatural to me personally... I was fine with YAO to be honest... because it's YAO... But my characters are not Yao and Yao is just one person who's like that so... whatever.

Singular they/them has often been used when a gender is unknown, since "it" refers to an object. At least since the 1800's, but probably longer. Many games used it prior to non-binary being a consideration.

[Futa.4375]

14 minutes ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

Singular they/them has often been used when a gender is unknown, since "it" refers to an object. At least since the 1800's, but probably longer. Many games used it prior to non-binary being a consideration.

It isn't unknown here and hasn't been since the beginning of the game so this doesn't apply here.

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

I agree with you OP. I think having at least 3 options (they/them, she/her, he/him) would be great. 

[babana.7521]

My 2 cents, Unless the character creation are changed to include a they /them toon selection, the pronounce in all the upcoming expansion will be they/them.
Since we the user  has not specify what pronounce other than he/she during creation, the game logically cannot tell when to use they/them, therefore it is safer to use they / them rather than he/she. 
that is all I am going to say about this, it's a risky thing to touch ..... slowly back away from the topic.