I'm lost - what do people want from GW2?

[Dibit.6259]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

To that degree as in this armor's case? No. There's no equivalent. There's nothing else so far that would require you to run the same narrow content thousands of times. And definitely nothing that would require you to run even hundreds repats of otherwise unrewarding content.

I mean this was what a lot people said they'd be willing to do in regards to getting an alternative legendary armor in pve. People found raids too hard to do or get into for various reasons and hated wvw. As I said before I understand its probably long winded boring content to farm but I think it's fair cost to having an alternative to raid or wvw armor.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

1 hour ago, Lucy.3728 said:

I think you meant the Skyscale, the classic Skyscale unlock system.

The warclaw is no effort.

I just made the mistake of pulling up reddit, and someone did, indeed, complain about the warclaw requiring too much effort. And then went full toxic on anyone who countered his points or offered helpful advice...while calling the people disagreeing with him toxic.

I'm in awe. People are amazing.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

Tell that to the people who got their legendary armor in sPvP

Fair point, to some degree - but only to some. Truth is, SPvP is being played without the armor, and is many, many times more rewarding than Rifts are.

But yes, for people that absolutely dislike SPvP, this approach might seem similar to the newly introduced one. Which brings us back to another thing: this armor is not designed for players that asked for it. The players that asked for OW approach were the people that could not stomach the three already existing ones. The ones that would find Rifts to be okay on the other hand are also players that would probbaly have been fine with at least WvW/SPvP methods.

[Holmindeboks.3490]

Just now, Dibit.6259 said:

Other than the expansions, nothing in game requires the need to spend money. You can earn gold to convert to gems to buy stuff in store or do achievements/tasks in game to obtain. In regards to loot, if anet allowed everyone to obtain high end loot it would loose it value and no longer be high end loot.

I once met someone that did pinata event for 2 years daily since release of pof and never looted it. I asked him about the infusion but he said he bought it from the trading post. Anet doesnt care about ppls time. This is ridiculous. These infusions are a mythe. But i also once readed someone on the forum got chak infusion with his 3 months old account. This is a big middlefinger to the person who farmed pinata for over 2 years daily. 
 

Let say you want a mount skin of 1600 gems. How many meta’s do you have to do to be able to spend 600+ gold for 1600 gems. A meta give maybe 2 or 3 gold. This is crazy. But addictive players never understand or dont want to see the reality. Or just spend cash every month for their lovely game but doesnt know the real struggle to make gold. And just make the exzample of just put gold to gems. And anet know that its hard to make gold. And if the mount is for limited time in the shop you have to ignore it. Or use your wallet. What most ppl do because they want to keep up with the fashion (hype) wars. 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Dibit.6259 said:

I mean this was what a lot people said they'd be willing to do in regards to getting an alternative legendary armor in pve. People found raids too hard to do or get into for various reasons and hated wvw. As I said before I understand its probably long winded boring content to farm but I think it's fair cost to having an alternative to raid or wvw armor.

And i do not consider it a fair cost. Raiders, WvWers and SPvPers are able to obtain legendary armor playing the content they find fun and entertaining. Why is it then that the OW players (that likely make up huge majority of the GW2 playerbase) are apparently forbidden from having fun while doing the same?

[Luthan.5236]

There is also a faction of people that try to counter certain stuff. They want stuff not to be made easiesr available. Making up reasons. But they hide the real reason (to shy/afraid of reactions): Their own self-esteem (psychological thing) is tied to achievements in onlin games - they can use to brag with. If that stuff gets easier to obtain they get less out of it.

Some even try to get hardcore content implemented that only a handful people might be able to complete. (Usually the stuff they are good at but if someone would suggest it for other content they were bad at ... they'd argue against it. Cause there it would make them look worse if they can't do it.

It is a bit of social psychology. A bit similar to how people tie their own self-image/worth to sports teams. (Rooting for their team. Getting angry when it does not win.) Just that the people here in gaming do stuff themselves - they just do not much in real life and have their main accomplishments only in games. That is why it might hurt for certain people. If that accomplishments lose value. (When there is no other stuff where they have accomplishments - to make up for it.)

I am still trying to observe this a bit. It certainly is an interesting thing from a psychological point of view. (I am not an expert. Just interested in psychology as a hobby.)

I think it certainly is somethign the company/devs are aware of. That is why they try to not make stuff tooooo easy. (On the other hand they can win lot of customers by at least making it easier to a certain level that a lot of stuff can be accomplished by a big amount of people - taking account a lot of minorities.)

Edit: PvP is easy - I have enough PvP mats ot make all 3 legendary armor sets. Would slowly need to grind out the PvE (money) stuff required. Might progress there only slowly. Not even made one piece yet. Not a grind when you just play a few matches for fun regularly - easily completing the seasonal chest each time.

In WvW it is way harder. Just playing a bit every now and then (even if maybe 2-3 hours each day which is a ton) ... might not complete you the weekly chest. (They are balanced to the rank 10k people that get additional pips. Also your playstyle is pretty much limited to stuff that keeps the participation up. So yeah: Pretty grindy feeling in WvW.)

Edited September 20, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[Dibit.6259]

1 minute ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

I once met someone that did pinata event for 2 years daily since release of pof and never looted it. I asked him about the infusion but he said he bought it from the trading post. Anet doesnt care about ppls time. This is ridiculous. These infusions are a mythe. But i also once readed someone on the forum got chak infusion with his 3 months old account. This is a big middlefinger to the person who farmed pinata for over 2 years daily. 
 

Let say you want a mount skin of 1600 gems. How many meta’s do you have to do to be able to spend 600+ gold for 1600 gems. A meta give maybe 2 or 3 gold. This is crazy. But addictive players never understand or dont want to see the reality. Or just spend cash every month for their lovely game but doesnt know the real struggle to make gold. And just make the exzample of just put gold to gems. And anet know that its hard to make gold. And if the mount is for limited time in the shop you have to ignore it. Or use your wallet. What most ppl do because they want to keep up with the fashion (hype) wars. 

It depends on how you go about making the gold. Selling mats you get from meta as well as the pure gold for example. You might want to look up "gw2 fast farming" it's a website dedicated to listing effective farms for mats and/or gold.

[Dibit.6259]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And i do not consider it a fair cost. Raiders, WvWers and SPvPers are able to obtain legendary armor playing the content they find fun and entertaining. Why is it then that the OW players (that likely make up huge majority of the GW2 playerbase) are apparently forbidden from having fun while doing the same?

Fun is subjective, there have also people who had done past content to obtain their legendaries who have hated it every step of the way but pushed on till the end because they really wanted the item. The great thing about this game is that legendaries are not required to play, they are qol items designed to be obtained through long term investment.

Only thing I can suggest to those who hate the content but still want to get the armor is to try and making it fun in other aspects. Listen to music/podcast, chat with friends or even cracking jokes in map as you do the content. Also not to be too impatience and push yourself too far to get it sooner. I speak from my own experience in regards to legendaries I've made myself. The most fun I had was when I made nevermore with a friend as we got to share the experience and helped one another.

[Gendalfs.7521]

Progression in this game is almost perfect. You grind gold convert to gems, buy stuff you want, but you cant buy all stuff, you need to achieve it via playing game.

Once there will be a way to just buy everything this game will go full P2W.

p.s. even if you have best armor, I think this game is based more on skill not on gear which is fantastic.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Gendalfs.7521
Added info

[Holmindeboks.3490]

4 minutes ago, Dibit.6259 said:

It depends on how you go about making the gold. Selling mats you get from meta as well as the pure gold for example. You might want to look up "gw2 fast farming" it's a website dedicated to listing effective farms for mats and/or gold.

Ty. But i play game to want fun and nice loot as a reward. Depents on the game. Normally i am an fps gamer. But did more mmo because back then fps games were bad. I hate storys in (this game because forced, to difficult high learning emglish that only university ppl understand) i hate pvp (i am toxic in competitive gameplay) except wvw. Thats nice sometimes. But to have a big group you have to be lucky at the right time. Or in a wvw guild. I hate dailys. (In WoW) i am a loot goblin. In fps games i want fast paced combat. But there are many campers so i also dont play that often anymore. Storys in assassins creed are nice and short. 

[Astralporing.1957]

33 minutes ago, Dibit.6259 said:

Fun is subjective, there have also people who had done past content to obtain their legendaries who have hated it every step of the way but pushed on till the end because they really wanted the item. The great thing about this game is that legendaries are not required to play, they are qol items designed to be obtained through long term investment.

Only thing I can suggest to those who hate the content but still want to get the armor is to try and making it fun in other aspects. Listen to music/podcast, chat with friends or even cracking jokes in map as you do the content. Also not to be too impatience and push yourself too far to get it sooner. I speak from my own experience in regards to legendaries I've made myself. The most fun I had was when I made nevermore with a friend as we got to share the experience and helped one another.

Yes, but why some people think that it is obligatory for OW players to sacrifice fun if they want to obtain legendary armor? I mean, a lot of people just assume that for some reason it needs to happen, that pain and suffering is somehow required. Unless of course you are a part of an exclusive club that happens to like the very narrow type of content that does have access to it of course. Those people do not need to suffer at all. And that's somehow fair.

No, i do not think that sacrificing fun can ever be considered a fair price for anything. Not in a game - an entertainment medium that is supposed to promote fun in the first place.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Astralporing.1957

[Bladestrom.6425]

17 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, but why some people think that it is obligatory for OW players to sacrifice fun if they want to obtain legendary armor? I mean, a lot of people just assume that for some reason it needs to happen, that pain and suffering is somehow required. Unless of course you are a part of an exclusive club that happens to like the very narrow type of content that does have access to it of course. Those people do not need to suffer at all. And that's somehow fair.

No, i do not think that sacrificing fun can ever be considered a fair price for anything. Not in a game - an entertainment medium that is supposed to promote fun in the first place.

First of all you are categorising people as 'OW' Players, we are all OW players in some form or fashion. 2nd No-one is saying the above, the new Open World Armor is a new choice  for everyone, it sits alongside all the other forms of legendary Armor,.  Either target the content or ignore it.  I'm playing the new open world content extensively for the achieves, i'm not targeting the legendary Armor but in the back of my mind i know i'm slowly progressing the materials which i'm choosing not to sell.  In short i'm doing what i want to do with an incredibly tasty long term reward on my long term horizon, nothing is being 'sacrificed' what's the problem?

Edited September 20, 2023 by vesica tempestas.1563

[Dibit.6259]

28 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, but why some people think that it is obligatory for OW players to sacrifice fun if they want to obtain legendary armor? I mean, a lot of people just assume that for some reason it needs to happen, that pain and suffering is somehow required. Unless of course you are a part of an exclusive club that happens to like the very narrow type of content that does have access to it of course. Those people do not need to suffer at all. And that's somehow fair.

No, i do not think that sacrificing fun can ever be considered a fair price for anything. Not in a game - an entertainment medium that is supposed to promote fun in the first place.

I'm not suggesting people "suffer" to get legendaries, just that it's expected that they require a lot of materials and therefore may require grinding. Whether someone finds the grind to be "fun" or "insufferable" is down to the individual.

 

Edit: I have been trying to give suggestions and tips to help people in regards to grinding, how to possibly make it less insufferable and warning people not to push themselves too hard with grinding to the point they burn themselves out.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Dibit.6259
Added extra

[Gibson.4036]

What I want from GW2 is an immersive, open world, and some interesting rewards I can chase via a variety of content.

On the whole, over the life of the game, it has provided this, which is why I'm still playing.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

On the subject of OW armor, we still also don't know what more ways will be available for farming the materials in the future.

Plus you don't need to farm it all now. Legendary armor isn't out yet, and we're still months away from it being out.

Legendary armor is a marathon, not a sprint, and making it a sprint is a good way to burn out well before the finish line.

[Hesione.9412]

3 hours ago, Lucy.3728 said:

I think you meant the Skyscale, the classic Skyscale unlock system.

The warclaw is no effort.

Oh, there's been a warclaw post.

Thanks for bringing up the skyscale, I had forgotten about that (how!!!) at the time I wrote the OP.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

The WvWmount should be available from the Ow ,because it's a great protector for antifun mechanics when they stepped into (vs stealth or 1500 range oneshots). They could offer a skin or all otherMounts attacks get 30%crrit , and people will flock to play the Wvw

 

Now that Hot and Soto offer legendary armor , then there should be an expansion that reduce half the requirements of the WvW legendary , like for example Silverwaste 2.0 , Galven Delve or any other meta , where half the people transformed into mobs to defend the place (essentially WvW training grounds).

Or mess with Edge of the mist

And participating in those events , fill your perma-reduced-mats-wvwv-mastery .

 

(Now imagine if you could unlock turtle turrets on the raptor.... or combinemax-out mastery raptor and griphon for a pterodactyl with new 6-sec combat attacks that deals percentage damage , max 40%)

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Hesione.9412]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

That is a very simplified (and thus partially inaccurate) summary.

Example: The complaints you mention on behalf of the Obsidian Armor are not about the effort and time investment but about the very dumbed down, monotonous way of acquisition. People would gladly put in all the effort if the task didn't bore them to death.

"Grind" in games can describe a lot of repetition, but also a sh*tload of work put into something. Nowhere, though, does the definition of grind state that the repetitive or otherwise demanding/exhausting tasks must be limited to only one.

You don't think that the method of acquiring WvW armour is monotonously acquiring skirmish tickets, particularly under the old system?

Anything is monotonous and repetitive, it depends on your definition.

People complain about anything that takes time. Look at the complaints about the skyscale, both before and after the time gate was decreased.

People wanted OW legendary armour that was easy to get. Anet delivered.

[Gehenna.3625]

8 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

Using one of your examples, gift of battle, this is obtainable only through WvW. Now a player like myself who is terrible in any form of PvP goes in and starts ruining it for people who actually are good and want to do well in WvW. So while I'm understanding they want players to go in different game modes, when they only do it for one item. It can be frustrating for everyone. I don't mind the effort, but I do mind dragging everyone else down with me...

I think that's not really an issue for WvW when it comes to the GoB. What I do hate is that people are afk'ing for years to get the WvW legendaries. That drags WvW down. You don't really need to be good anyways. As long as you participate really.

[Marikus.1875]

2 hours ago, Dibit.6259 said:

Fun is subjective

no! everyone will have the same exact of fun as me doing the same exact activities!!! 😡🤬🥹

[Stx.4857]

Everyone wants something different is your answer.  
 

Players who don’t enjoy PvP do not want to have to grind for Gift of Battle, players who don’t enjoy open world events don’t want to have to grind rifts for legendary armor.  Players who don’t like pve don’t want to have to do map completion for gift of exploration.  Obviously some players are just unreasonable/ irrational with their requests, that has been true since online gaming has existed with forums and will never change. 

[notebene.3190]

 

[Pomdepin.7068]

12 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Reading the forums, it's:

1. The Gift of Battle is too much effort.
2. The new SotO legendary armour is too much effort.
3. The warclaw is too much effort.

All MMOs are basically a grind game. In GW2 it's different because you decide what your end-game is, unlike other games where the end-game is high-end raids. This means that you're not on a progression treadmill because you're not going to miss out. The legendary armour is always going to be there. The mount you want is always going to be there. But there is always something to work towards that takes time, because that's an MMO.

I'm lost as to why people are playing an MMO if they don't appear to want to play an MMO.

If you want to win at fashion wars, e.g., you don't need to do any grind other than getting the pieces you want for your wardrobe, and your dyes. If you want to RP, there's guilds and fellow players that want to RP with you as well -  your grind is organising your scripts (and maybe your wardrobe). If you're Choco, it's working out how to entertain us the next time the chocos appear (and I'm looking forward to the choco efforts for Halloween).

I just don't get the people who don't want to play, but want stuff.

100% agree. Leave us things to do and in various game modes so that we can experience more than our favourite one. It can be refreshing sometimes to play something we usually don't play much because we've been incentivized.

Some people want to have everything with zero effort. Play a game where nothing is to unlock then.

MMO should have fun grinds, give you a journey to get prestigious items imo!

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

 

People wanted OW legendary armour that was easy to get. 

FTFY

Many, many requests stated it could be as difficult as other modes.

[Vayne.8563]

10 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

Using one of your examples, gift of battle, this is obtainable only through WvW. Now a player like myself who is terrible in any form of PvP goes in and starts ruining it for people who actually are good and want to do well in WvW. So while I'm understanding they want players to go in different game modes, when they only do it for one item. It can be frustrating for everyone. I don't mind the effort, but I do mind dragging everyone else down with me...

Both sides, arguably will have the same percentage of pure PvEer's just looking for their gift of battle. Every server will end up having them. Thus, you won't be dragging your side down, because it's a game of compensation. There's a lot of casuals who run into WvW just for the dailies and sometimes they get slaughtered. You're not hurting anyone.