1,000 damage base stretched to 12,500?

[Redflash.4295]

Somehow, in PVP I got hit with an attack that had less than a thousand base damage but got multiplied up to well over twelve thousand damage.

Can someone please explain how that happened?

When I look at the math: 1,000 * 3.5crit *1.4percentDamInc *1.1vuln = 5,750 damage. 

The warrior obviously did more than double that. 

What am I missing here? 

Screenshot

Note: The 1,000 base damage assumes full Berserker gear and upgraded power and ferocity but no stacks of might. 

[Zyreva.1078]

Tooltip damage does not equal "base" dmg. The actual "base" dmg of gun flame against a no toughness mesmer in PvP should be more like ~ 2,5k. That's without factoring in any dmg modifiers (that are all multiplicative!), crits or might (potentially 25 stacks).

Check https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage for more detail.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[Riba.3271]

From GW2 wiki you will find section that says "At level 80, the opponent Armor value used to calculate the tooltip's damage is 2597." So for example if you have 2000 armor, you will take 30% more damage than the tooltip.

You can't just calculate it just like that because damage modifiers, damage reduction and targets armor come into play. Assuming that berserker has only 40% damage modifier, when most likely they have 10% from berserk,  21% from strength traitline, discipline has 7%, 3% and 3% per target boon damage modifiers. So it would add up to 1.1*1.21*1.07*1.03*1.12 => 64% increased damage to target with 4 boons.

Then you also have to take into account his might stacks, vulnerability and sigils. So more realistic math is

1000 * 1.3 (targets armor) * 1.64 (damage modifiers) * 1.1 (vuln) * 1.15 (might) * 3.5 (crit damage)* 1.05 (sigils) = 9911. Now the rest can be assumed by him running extra sigils, damage relic or you having extra boons. Also it can come from destruction of empowered being multiplicative trait or he was playing gear with more power than what you screenshotted, as I don't know everything about the game or the situation.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Riba.3271

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12k gunflames are unhealthy

[dead.7638]

That’s like, baby fun flame dmg.   Yeet and dodge.   Look for the SoM to pop and someone bout to be gun flame.

[dead.7638]

kitten be unblockable I think, Kek.   Umm I’d say let it happen once and then shame on you.

[Redflash.4295]

The issue is, I didn't realize damage bonuses increase exponentially rather than linearly. In most games I have played, % damage increases add together rather than multiplying each other.

If damage works that way, defensive abilities probably work that way too. So while each damage ability you grab is more powerful than the last, each defense is weaker? 

That would mean, the best thing to do in almost all circumstances is go full glass (I am not) every single time, and grab just enough iframes to outlast enemy nukes.

That is... interesting. I will definitely play differently, knowing damage works that way. 

Thanks, everyone.

[Myror.7521]

I mean ....... Its gunflame right? That means its most of the time Played on Strength/Arms/Berserker.

The dmg boost traits are:

Berserkers Power

Great Fortitude or Forcefull Greatsword

Peak Performance

Pinnacle of Strength

Signet Mastery

Blood Reaction

Fatal Frenzy

Bloody Roar

Then with Arms you are able to get easily 25 stacks vulnerability on your enemy. Plus you gain multiple crit Chance traitlines on this build. Also you gain 180 Power/Precision for holding passives of your signets. I gotta be honest .... it would be pretty weird If it does not deal this amount of dmg. Also this is pretty fair since its hard Glass Canon. Simply focus it out and Dodge its gunflame (since thats its main dmg Skill)

[Zekent.3652]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

12k gunflames are unhealthy

High ranged damage in a build that sacrifices a lot of things for such damage is good.

But builds with high damage with also good sustain, dodges, stealth, evade frames animations, stealth, good damage at melee AND ranged, etc. Are the unhealthy ones.

But who knows, i might be biased since i main warrior i guess.

To OP: don't forget the damage modifiers, full dps gunflame warrior has some good modifiers, and there's an even more meme one that doesn't uses discipline but hits even harder.

Here's the gunflame build that i usually play: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwEQiNsMCGFbihxKxi2SvdB-DaIPlMFC9KCKYCUyCwWfDAA

 

Damage modifiers:

1. 3% from Warrior's Sprint.
2. 7% from Burst Mastery.
3. 400 or 500 ferocity from arms.
4. 190 extra ferocity in berserk form from Blood Reaction.
5. 10% from Bloody Roar.
6. +300 power from Fatal Frenzy.
7. 3% per boon on you from Destruction of the Empowered.

I did a video with this build a while ago, you might learn some things from it:

 

Notice how builds like the bunker jalis rev hard counters it, runs out of gas really fast, and how low sustain it has, unlike most builds of this style, you need to be in combat first which means that the enemy should notice you easier, unless an ally gave you stealth in the middle of the combat, which is a reaaaally rare scenario, only has 1 stunbreak (don't count the stunbreak from Savage Instinct, it's really rare to use it as stunbreak with this build), only 1 stunbreak because you're forced to run both signets for the Adrenaline generation and the unblockable (and might) because of this game with so many projectile hate. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Zizekent.2398
Wasn't a bunker rev

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

 

I did a video with this build a while ago, you might learn some things from it:

 

Notice how builds like the bunker rev hard counters it

I hope you didn't meant with thos video, that this was bunker rev, because it clearly wasn't. 

And for countering this, just get enough projectile denial/reflection 🙂

[Zekent.3652]

21 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I hope you didn't meant with thos video, that this was bunker rev, because it clearly wasn't. 

And for countering this, just get enough projectile denial/reflection 🙂

Well, "bunker" wasn't the correct word, more like just a weird vindi build tanky just on jalis, probably ussing a toughness ammy.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Zizekent.2398

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Well, "bunker" wasn't the correct word, more like just a weird vindi build tanky just on jalis, probably ussing a toughness ammy.

I think rather marauder or berserker amuler with salvation traitline 10% reduction physical damage and asorb/boon. While same time you got hit by weakness or those cc chains which lower your damage. If he had by chance protection boon also, then even more reduction+ jalis hammers. 

Damage with this is lot lower then shiro though

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

13 hours ago, Redflash.4295 said:

The issue is, I didn't realize damage bonuses increase exponentially rather than linearly. In most games I have played, % damage increases add together rather than multiplying each other.

If damage works that way, defensive abilities probably work that way too. So while each damage ability you grab is more powerful than the last, each defense is weaker? 

That would mean, the best thing to do in almost all circumstances is go full glass (I am not) every single time, and grab just enough iframes to outlast enemy nukes.

That is... interesting. I will definitely play differently, knowing damage works that way. 

Thanks, everyone.

If your interested…weakness is the strongest damage reduction in the game you can take (as it removes a significant amount of damage modification by getting rid of the ability to critically strike) 

Additionally, weakness is an RNG so under statistical analysis: builds that do consistent damage over period of time suffer less from weakness, than builds that focus their damage into a single high output burst. 
 

Technically other defenses are not useless, but pvp simply had most of its defenses removed systemically over the past 4 years so all that’s left really is to go full damage. This is why WvW is not like pvp…there’s a lot more counter bunker builds that can cope with a high output burst. In WvW these two forces (say ministrels and a pure zerker gunflame) cancel each other out to be on the same page.

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

High ranged damage in a build that sacrifices a lot of things for such damage is good.

Not from the video you posted it isn't.  

Only watched the first encounter but it shows the build is pure meme and you had to literally run back to spawn when no ally around / encountered something to challenge the build, because as you pointed out it has no defenses.

This is what I mean by unhealthy, as someone will get killed by this and ragequit the mode, while in reality it does nothing at advanced levels of play.  

Every class has a degenerate build though, Warrior has quite a few from condizerker to undying bladesworn builds--at least with these you aren't running off to spawn / eventually only winning because team comp carried.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I love people getting isekai'd by gun flame. Just wonderful. 💀🍿

Quote

12k gunflames are unhealthy

It can do less when rifle is not countered by a single dodge. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Burnfall.9573]

21 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

12k gunflames are unhealthy

"If all you do is treat the symptom's, you are not going to cure the disease. What you need to do is treat or remove the root cause from repapering again"

Although the player was disappointed that the damage did not captivate Warrior Profession-high Gunflame damage, the player kept recording with a playing a Beautifully Soothing Music in the background.  

Edited September 21, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

It can do less when rifle is not countered by a single dodge. 

That's actually the point I'm trying to make.  It isn't a discussion of 'OP' or not as I hate that term--more of a discussion of what it actually does to the mode.  

One shot / meme builds shouldn't be a thing because they are useless outside of that specific purpose, and that specific purpose ends pretty quickly into gold.  This also includes the ranger variants (as I know coming from me some people are going to question that)--I don't think Dolyak is healthy (which is lynchpin for almost all braindead soulbeast builds) and should have been nerfed instead of OWP (because the elite is for burst so balance around it, not butcher it), etc.

Essentially anything that contributes to on-point fighting is much better.  Sure, there are crazy boon bunkers now because of all the balancing decisions, and not saying those are good either--just better than 'lol one shot, oh I missed, time to run' builds, because it's sPvP not WvW (where ganking can actually be useful).

[arazoth.7290]

49 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

"If all you do is treat the symptom's, you are not going to cure the disease. What you need to do is treat or remove the root cause from repapering again"

Although the player was disappointed that the damage did not captivate Warrior Profession-high Gunflame damage, the player kept recording with a playing a Beautifully Soothing Music in the background.  

that video is 7+ years old, talking about outdated proof.

[Burnfall.9573]

27 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

that video is 7+ years old, talking about outdated proof.

Here is a 3 months old video

With Anet pushing Power Creep to high levels with Rinse+Repeat Balance....

"If all you do is treat the symptom's, you are not going to cure the disease. What you need to do is treat or remove the root cause from reappering again"

The Proof is, Nothing was learned from the past

 

Guild Wars 2 is a 11 Years old Wreck. It need to be completely reworked from the ground up with those who care about healthy competition, without having Bias, Favoritism, Elitism

Edited September 21, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

29 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Guild Wars 2 is a 11 Years old Wreck. It need to be completely reworked from the ground up with those who care about healthy competition, without having Bias, Favoritism, Elitism

Hehe gunflame go brrrr

Quote

Essentially anything that contributes to on-point fighting is much better.  Sure, there are crazy boon bunkers now because of all the balancing decisions, and not saying those are good either--just better than 'lol one shot, oh I missed, time to run' builds, because it's sPvP not WvW (where ganking can actually be useful).

True but i will always enjoy a well caught beam

Edited September 21, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lonecap.4105]

Ironically, this DPS build is one of the most balanced possible. The damage is telegraphed, the player does not have ports or stealth or high sustain.

There are other specs which are capable of matching the timed bursts of this particular DPS build, with sustained damage, whilst having stealth/port/sustain/higher mobility.

 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

Ironically, this DPS build is one of the most balanced possible. The damage is telegraphed, the player does not have ports or stealth or high sustain.

There are other specs which are capable of matching the timed bursts of this particular DPS build, with sustained damage, whilst having stealth/port/sustain/higher mobility.

 

 

A literal glass cannon that punishes people who don't check their situation. 

Marvelous.  Truly sublime. Hate it all you want but at the end of the day, you died because you didn't press dodge key. And that is beautiful. ❤️

Edited September 21, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

Not in PvP, but in instanced PvE I'm getting 20,000 dmg single hits with hammer as a soulbeast lol (not even my class weapon)

[Lonecap.4105]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

A literal glass cannon that punishes people who don't check their situation. 

Marvelous.  Truly sublime. Hate it all you want but at the end of the day, you died because you didn't press dodge key. And that is beautiful. ❤️

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:47 PM, Redflash.4295 said:

The issue is, I didn't realize damage bonuses increase exponentially rather than linearly. In most games I have played, % damage increases add together rather than multiplying each other.

If damage works that way, defensive abilities probably work that way too. So while each damage ability you grab is more powerful than the last, each defense is weaker? 

That would mean, the best thing to do in almost all circumstances is go full glass (I am not) every single time, and grab just enough iframes to outlast enemy nukes.

That is... interesting. I will definitely play differently, knowing damage works that way. 

Thanks, everyone.

Thanks for learning! Gunflame builds are all or nothing glass cannons. They typically use sigmets in their build for an active effect that increases their crit damage per signet used, one of which grants might and unblockable, and another gives large amounts of might, and another still gives even more critical damage.

Signets have icons that appear over the user's head though so there is a pretty big tell to the spike. If you see it then use any of the following to mitigate damage:

Dodge

Clear any vulnerability on yourself

Use protection or other damage reducers

Hide behind objects to block line of sight

Rip/corrupt their boons

Apply large amounts of barrier

Any any combinations of the above, ymmv based on your class.

 

Once they blow the first shot they will use their heal skill to refresh Gunflame so you'll need to dodge or mitigate a second time, but then they will be a sitting duck.