Amount of 250 or 250+ LI or KP groups in LFG for daily strikes is getting silly

[TheNurgle.4825]

Today I saw another commander in LFG wanting 250+LI/KP for daily strikes. I would understand it for CMs, but for Shiverpeaks pass. Silly is that it is in same tab with 3 LFG groups actually selling strikes/raids. So ppl can buy strike/raid clears and get to that LI/KP.

It is kind of new since several weeks/months ago I did not see almost none groups wanted LI/KP for daily strikes.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

You clearly haven't played when Strikes were new, 250LI for Strikes is nothing new.

[TheNurgle.4825]

10 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You clearly haven't played when Strikes were new, 250LI for Strikes is nothing new.

Ok, but you can see it now for IBS strikes like Shiverpeaks pass or DS.

[Nephalem.8921]

The reason for this is that these people want to filter the "hi dps" crowd or the "metabuilds don't matter" players. A decent group takes half the time of a pepega squad with multiple people pulling 10k dps in shiverpeaks while they could do 30k.

[TheNurgle.4825]

22 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The reason for this is that these people want to filter the "hi dps" crowd or the "metabuilds don't matter" players. A decent group takes half the time of a pepega squad with multiple people pulling 10k dps in shiverpeaks while they could do 30k.

Shiverpeaks has 11,7M HP so 8 ppl doing 10k dps kill it in 2,5mins. In case of everyone doing 30k dps, then you are on 48 secs. Of course fight take little longer due to inv phase. You never get group full of ppl doing 10k dps, average PUGs do 15k dps.

Please keep in mind that groups wanting 250LI are not formed as fast as other groups so it take longer to form the group.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

12 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Ok, but you can see it now for IBS strikes like Shiverpeaks pass or DS.

250LI for Shiverpeaks isn't new. There were groups asking for LI on DS when it was new to make sure the encounter doesn't take 5 years, before the changes.

11 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Shiverpeaks has 11,7M HP so 8 ppl doing 10k dps kill it in 2,5mins. In case of everyone doing 30k dps, then you are on 48 secs. Of course fight take little longer due to inv phase. You never get group full of ppl doing 10k dps, average PUGs do 15k dps.

Please keep in mind that groups wanting 250LI are not formed as fast as other groups so it take longer to form the group.

It takes longer to form the group, but there are people who consider it a fair trade to not have to deal with DPS competing with healers for the 7th highest DPS spot. If everyone in the group has been playing long enough to have 250LI doing more than 15k DPS won't be hard considering auto attacking is around 15k DPS already.

Edited October 16, 2023 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[vares.8457]

Just make your own group without LI requirements 

[Linken.6345]

And OP are they only doing shiverpeak pass or are they doing ibs 5+ eod daily and the two soto ones?

The time adds up if you dont have competent dps mate.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

And OP are they only doing shiverpeak pass or are they doing ibs 5+ eod daily and the two soto ones?

The time adds up if you dont have competent dps mate.

99% the latter. 

[Jedrik.3109]

Who cares?

Make your own group.

End thread.

[TheNurgle.4825]

14 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

And OP are they only doing shiverpeak pass or are they doing ibs 5+ eod daily and the two soto ones?

The time adds up if you dont have competent dps mate.

It was only Shiverpeaks, only daily ones the easy ones with DS.

[rotten.9753]

The groups that don't ask for any KPs simply fill up faster, so you have less chance to see them. You can also make your own group, even without the commander tag, that content (NM strikes) is easy enough.

[TheNurgle.4825]

14 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

Just make your own group without LI requirements 

I actually do that. Imagine being new player and you see 3-4 strike/raid sellers, 2-3 groups with ridiculous requirements and 2-3 groups with "normal" requirements. What is msg new player is getting? Why are raids seen as dead content?

[rotten.9753]

54 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Why are raids seen as dead content?

Because they are.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

I actually do that. Imagine being new player and you see 3-4 strike/raid sellers, 2-3 groups with ridiculous requirements and 2-3 groups with "normal" requirements. What is msg new player is getting? Why are raids seen as dead content?

The horror of new players seeing different people having different requirements. The message new players are getting is that - similiarly to literally every other MMO - there are groups ranging from ones that welcome anyone to ones that require you to meet whatever requirements they set.

It is all part of the mantra repeated on the forums, "play the way you want".
They want to make sure that they clear content in a minute as opposed to 5 minutes, there are people who don't want to deal with people joining in as DPS and competing with the boonDPS or even the healers for damage, so on. I had a run on Fraenir today half the DPS only did twice as much DPS as the healers with abysmal boon uptime. 

3 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

It was only Shiverpeaks, only daily ones the easy ones with DS.

So, IBS easy ones, daily EoD-Soto and DS? Yesterday it was daily HT, which alone is a Strike you can see KP requirements for, since people generally don't know how to jump or dodge. 

[Cuks.8241]

Yeah it was probably because of HT. While its doable with random pugs, its a risk. I wouldnt run HT with 0 requirements also unless I was willing to spend lots of time on it. Its not even the risk we would wipe. In this game half of the group just leaves in case of wipe.

[Zohane.7208]

Today I saw an lfg for SotO strikes 500+LI. That felt really over the top.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

Sometimes I feel, asking kp for group content is the only way to filter out players who start the fight when Ready Check is not complete... Or avoid players who place damaging aoes on the group and intentionally or unintentionally fail /use boss mechanics to wipe the squad... But kp requirements should be moderate for strikes... 10 to 20 bs kp or 100li is max and more than enough IMO... But on good days 0kp squad with carefully crafted squad lfg description is also fine

[Passerbye.6291]

I like how we always use new players as our scapegoats when we talk about endgame content. Someone gets kicked because of 3k dps? Toxic commander, not new player friendly, commanders have responsibility to the community (lmao on that one btw). Someone requests KP in amounts you don't agree with? Ermahgerd, this game is so new player unfriendly, X or Y content is super easy anyway, why would they ask for KP smh!

The simple fact of the matter is, people rarely, if ever, only do shiverpeaks, squads asking for KP are far and few between for easy 3, usually KP requirements start with IBS 5 groups or those including EoD and/or the new soto strikes and the reason for that is, most of those commanders do a lot of pug strikes. For me, while I currently don't run KP squads, every other time I do a strike run, people make me think I should. Even if you ask whether people know mechanics for a given fight, they often remain quiet in the hopes of going unnoticed, then immediately die in boneskinner, then proceed to stack on people with chains in whisper, murder people with numbers and/or overlapping aoes in KO, die to every mechanic, fail overlapping aoes or get knocked into the group with an aoe during triple waves or simply don't move the aoe puddle when they get it in HT or mess up in all sorts of hilarious yet frustrating ways in OLC. All these things add up to a really tiresome run. The other day I did IBS 5 + CW + DS + EoD daily and both soto strikes on request and it was absolutely horrible, the run itself was already going to be long due to the sheer number of strikes we were going to do, and it was exceptionally bad because we had people die to random things or do absolutely no damage. I was frequently doing top damage on boon chrono, which I started playing last week. Now, I would love to take credit for that one but the reality is, I'm not shattering benchmarks or anything on that chrono, it was just that we weren't doing good damage as a group.

Many people like to argue "you can do X content with 0 dps anyway", just because you can doesn't mean you should, some days I'd rather not spend multiple hours for something that should have taken less than an hour. Btw, this is ignoring the fact that you'll have multiple wipes across BS, whisper, KO/HT with some groups, or at least lose a bunch of them, further increasing the kill time.

Concerning people with the opinion of "commanders have a responsibility to the playerbase" just no. We're not getting paid, at least I'm not (insert wait, you guys are getting paid? meme here). Every training I do or every non KP run I do (which is all of them so far) is either because a friend asked me to, or I just felt like doing it.
Now, let's ignore that and pretend commanders are somehow public servants, if they have a responsibility to the playerbase, howcome the playerbase owes absolutely nothing to them? This thing goes both ways, if someone is collecting your garbage, the least you can do is not take a dump on the garbage bin just because you can.
TLDR: The moment the playerbase stops trying to exploit squads with no requirements, high KP requirement runs will become far and few between. I just don't see it happening though, because people are allergic to playing something that is actually useful to the group or learning mechanics.
People ask for KP because they grow tired of things like this: Minister Li (dps.report) 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Passerbye.6291
Added a link

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Sometimes I feel, asking kp for group content is the only way to filter out players who start the fight when Ready Check is not complete... Or avoid players who place damaging aoes on the group and intentionally or unintentionally fail /use boss mechanics to wipe the squad... But kp requirements should be moderate for strikes... 10 to 20 bs kp or 100li is max and more than enough IMO... But on good days 0kp squad with carefully crafted squad lfg description is also fine

To be fair. Runs where the DPS is competing with the healers for damage on simple encounters, like this or this make me think of starting to increase my requirements from "well it's in Experienced category"

[Balsa.3951]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:37 AM, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Today I saw another commander in LFG wanting 250+LI/KP for daily strikes. I would understand it for CMs, but for Shiverpeaks pass. Silly is that it is in same tab with 3 LFG groups actually selling strikes/raids. So ppl can buy strike/raid clears and get to that LI/KP.

It is kind of new since several weeks/months ago I did not see almost none groups wanted LI/KP for daily strikes.

u are right. but some pros being pros they don't mind waiting 15 minutes to do content wich pugs can do in 15 minutes.

short answer ignore make ur own group

[Stadsport.8714]

I almost never see groups in LFG asking for KP on a regular IBS5 run. If they're doing those + EoD + SotO, maybe, but it's certainly not common enough I'd be starting a thread to complain about them.

But as others said, there are way too many people who join groups in Experienced and hope no one notices when they clothesline the entire squad on Whisper, so I certainly don't object to commanders asking for some baseline confirmation that members know what they're doing.

There are PLENTY of groups without KP requirements to join, or you can just start your own.

[TheNurgle.4825]

On 10/16/2023 at 1:33 PM, rotten.9753 said:

Because they are.

We all know that and my question was rhetorical.

Asking for kp for strikes is okish, we have boneskinner and harvest temple rest of strikes are kind of training golems anyway. Asking 250 or 500 li for strikes does not make sense for several reasons. For new player to get 250li is over 8 weeks of doing all raids, all EoD CM strikes every week during these 8 weeks.

Also I joined several 250li and 500li daily strike groups and avg dps was 20k so almost same as any PUG group.

[Obtena.7952]

There is no problem here. How people impose team requirements on their own teams doesn't affect you. 

[Juan.6124]

Make your own squad instead of creating forum posts.