The people designing ele should be reassigned

[Poelala.2830]

Elementalist is so poorly designed that when the genius that made the signet trait change realized how stupid that was every Elementalist build that exists got nerfed. Earth is just as bad and unusable as before (lmfao??)

Facts: There is no way to get protection on the game's glassiest class outside of elite specs, arcane, and earth. There is no way to get vigor outside of elite specs, arcane, and water.

Earth is unusable in competitive modes. What, exactly, is ementalist supposed to do with earth traitline outside of tempest?

Elementalist (and I think engineer?) are the only classes without the ability to remove boons without assistance from relics/sigils. Most warhorn skills are uncompetitive for dmg builds. The changes to core sword were horrible. 

Why do war and ranger spam endure pain and ele can't, when ele is 3x glassier? 

Why is there literally no way outside of Lightning Hammer to provide ele quickness on core builds?

Why are arcane utility skills unusable? Why is the trait so bad?

Why are glyphs so bad?

Why are CONJURES (with the exception of earth shield) LEGITIMATELY unusable? Have you seen how frostbow plays? It's a joke. You can't land any skill if you tried. I think one of the skills has a 4 second cast time?

Why change the QoL of Dragonhunter's LB 5, but not staff ele's meteor shower? 

Why is staff still so bad?

How come if you want to play anything on weaver except fire/arcane you have either no dmg, NO CLEANSES, or both?

Why are all the core elites unusable?

Why are most of the core heals unusable still?

Is there ever going to be a QoL patch for elementalist? 

Why did you effectively remove the dodge on burning speed with its QoL change?

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THE SIGNETS CHANGE LOL???????

Why is the projectile block on dagger earth 2 so horrible??? The frame starts AFTER you initiate it, and you are often still affected by projectiles when you're using it, especially in fast-paced interactions (all of them in current year)

Why are augments so poor??! Why is it that elementalist is the only class with a 10 unblockable hits utility skill that 1. requires a cast (lmao??) 2. is locked behind catalyst?

Again, why are arcane utility skills unusable??? If you compare the dmg they do and their utility to literally any other utility with similar functionality (i.e. mesmer mantras) it is the worst of them all by far. 

Why does Elementalist, the game's glassiest class, have no access to aegis? WHY DOES BLADESWORN HAVE AEGIS AND ELE DOES NOT LOL

Why can't core elementalist access superspeed outside of sword, lightning hammer, (lol) and air trait line? Now that melee powerhouses like engi and war spam superspeed elementalist is obsolete. 

Why does deadeye literally have stealth on dodge AND CAN REMOVE REVEALED, but elementalist is rendered useless by chill? 

Why is elemtalist the only class rendered useless by a single condition? And then rendered dead by confusion...

Why are so many traits in tempest so horrible STILL? What, exactly, are we supposed to do with Latent Stamina on tempest? With it with we can finally dodge as much as revenant, but now we trade off all damage (because that playstyle is incompatible with the overload playstyle, so no stability or protection either) and our dodges accomplish less than classes who were designed to dodge (deadeye and daredevil, mirage, vindicator and shiro revenant, etc.) What I find insane is how legitimately every traitline with an endurance trait ALSO has a trait that improves the functionality of the dodge WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TEMPEST AND EARTH TRAIT LINE LOL. Think strength warrior's reckless dodge, rousing resilience, building momentum, and might makes right. Think mirage cloak. Think daredevil's endurance thief and all gm traits. 

I can really keep going (obviously).

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Someone was downstate one to many times. 

[Dadnir.5038]

33 minutes ago, Poelala.2830 said:

Facts: There is no way to get protection on the game's glassiest class outside of elite specs, arcane, and earth.

That's wrong though... Hint: relic of durability. Earth shield and armor of earth are still sources of protection for you.

37 minutes ago, Poelala.2830 said:

There is no way to get vigor outside of elite specs, arcane, and water.

Scepter#3 grant you vigor baseline.

45 minutes ago, Poelala.2830 said:

Elementalist (and I think engineer?) are the only classes without the ability to remove boons without assistance from relics/sigils.

What? Ever heard of cleansing fire? It's a core skill.

...

I won't delve further into your rant as you make it obvious that you have absolutely no clue about what elementalist can or cannot do.

[deathdealer.2197]

My cata ptsdis still on the mend so its hard to feel empathy

Buff staff tho

[Dreams.3128]

2 hours ago, Poelala.2830 said:

 

To sum it up very nicely:

 

Elementalist has a feast or famine playstyle. It's either really good or it just simply falls off. No in between. People (that are not ele mains) have been so dillusioned by the strength of D/D Cele Ele that even a DECADE later, they still apply its strength like it matters. 

Anet doesn't know what to do with it. It used to be a glassy mage that did pretty respectable damage. Now it keeps turning into this boring condi spell fencer that doesn't have any of the protections of a normal melee class outside of boon spam (which is only achievable through cata) or healing (which depending on the meta is completely useless).

Add on top of the fact that non-Ele players have chimed in over the years to gut Ele weapons because they fail to realize that not nerfing the one specific thing that made it OP (again Cata), that when they do something like the signet changes the rest of the class crumbles like paper. Then, they proceed to pat themselves on the back like they did something useful. 

Anet and their stupid fan boys can't decide what Ele they want so we play pin the tail on the Ele every major update until Ele mains move to another class or drop the game entirely. Grimjack is the only one who is 'loyal' and even he pointed these dogwater takes when things like were signets were changed. 

CMC isn't really a main because if he was, he would've been able to answer all of this with actual good reason, but instead we have annoying Ranger mains and God knows who else acting like they are suddenly grimjack and know what they are speaking about. 

 

Ele is gonna be stuck on the hamster wheel permanently as a binary heal support or this crappy condi bruiser whatever hybrid they think is fun when its really not. I rather gut condi altogether and just bring back FA, then tweak from there. And for the long of God I wish they could destroy Cata because the class is one of the worst designed specs. Reminds me of when everyone said Daredevil is just an upgrade to core thief. That's basically Cata to Core Ele. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

What? Ever heard of cleansing fire? It's a core skill.

Thats a condi cleanse, not a boon rip.

[Arheundel.6451]

7 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Thats a condi cleanse, not a boon 

Lol...shhhhh

[Poelala.2830]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's wrong though... Hint: relic of durability. Earth shield and armor of earth are still sources of protection for you.

Scepter#3 grant you vigor baseline.

What? Ever heard of cleansing fire? It's a core skill.

...

I won't delve further into your rant as you make it obvious that you have absolutely no clue about what elementalist can or cannot do.

Does cleansing fire remove boons? lol. Also, this is about core ele WITHOUT relics/sigils as I mentioned. The protection bit was about specifically trait lines, which I thought was clear.

[Poelala.2830]

1 hour ago, Dreams.3128 said:

To sum it up very nicely:

 

Elementalist has a feast or famine playstyle. It's either really good or it just simply falls off. No in between. People (that are not ele mains) have been so dillusioned by the strength of D/D Cele Ele that even a DECADE later, they still apply its strength like it matters. 

Anet doesn't know what to do with it. It used to be a glassy mage that did pretty respectable damage. Now it keeps turning into this boring condi spell fencer that doesn't have any of the protections of a normal melee class outside of boon spam (which is only achievable through cata) or healing (which depending on the meta is completely useless).

Add on top of the fact that non-Ele players have chimed in over the years to gut Ele weapons because they fail to realize that not nerfing the one specific thing that made it OP (again Cata), that when they do something like the signet changes the rest of the class crumbles like paper. Then, they proceed to pat themselves on the back like they did something useful. 

Anet and their stupid fan boys can't decide what Ele they want so we play pin the tail on the Ele every major update until Ele mains move to another class or drop the game entirely. Grimjack is the only one who is 'loyal' and even he pointed these dogwater takes when things like were signets were changed. 

CMC isn't really a main because if he was, he would've been able to answer all of this with actual good reason, but instead we have annoying Ranger mains and God knows who else acting like they are suddenly grimjack and know what they are speaking about. 

 

Ele is gonna be stuck on the hamster wheel permanently as a binary heal support or this crappy condi bruiser whatever hybrid they think is fun when its really not. I rather gut condi altogether and just bring back FA, then tweak from there. And for the long of God I wish they could destroy Cata because the class is one of the worst designed specs. Reminds me of when everyone said Daredevil is just an upgrade to core thief. That's basically Cata to Core Ele. 

Well-said 🙂 I like my naggy/complainy tone more than your reasoned tone, though.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Thats a condi cleanse, not a boon rip.

Well, what's written in the post was so ridiculous that I've read condition instead of boon. Anyway, 2 sigils are available in PvP for those that feel that they lack boon removal. So, no, elementalist do have access to boon rip in sPvP.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

10 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, what's written in the post was so ridiculous that I've read condition instead of boon. Anyway, 2 sigils are available in PvP for those that feel that they lack boon removal. So, no, elementalist do have access to boon rip in sPvP.

I think you only read like first few words

of a sentence and then you fall asleep.

Read again what he wrote, 

but this time go beyond

few words in a line.

[lotus.5672]

throw mine engis rise up

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Poelala.2830 said:

Why do war and ranger spam endure pain and ele can't, when ele is 3x glassier? 

your endure pain is invisible, but nonetheless present

I am just messing with you, put the hatchet down.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

To sum it up very nicely:

 

Elementalist has a feast or famine playstyle. It's either really good or it just simply falls off. No in between. People (that are not ele mains) have been so dillusioned by the strength of D/D Cele Ele that even a DECADE later, they still apply its strength like it matters. 

Anet doesn't know what to do with it. It used to be a glassy mage that did pretty respectable damage. Now it keeps turning into this boring condi spell fencer that doesn't have any of the protections of a normal melee class outside of boon spam (which is only achievable through cata) or healing (which depending on the meta is completely useless).

Add on top of the fact that non-Ele players have chimed in over the years to gut Ele weapons because they fail to realize that not nerfing the one specific thing that made it OP (again Cata), that when they do something like the signet changes the rest of the class crumbles like paper. Then, they proceed to pat themselves on the back like they did something useful. 

Anet and their stupid fan boys can't decide what Ele they want so we play pin the tail on the Ele every major update until Ele mains move to another class or drop the game entirely. Grimjack is the only one who is 'loyal' and even he pointed these dogwater takes when things like were signets were changed. 

CMC isn't really a main because if he was, he would've been able to answer all of this with actual good reason, but instead we have annoying Ranger mains and God knows who else acting like they are suddenly grimjack and know what they are speaking about. 

Ele is gonna be stuck on the hamster wheel permanently as a binary heal support or this crappy condi bruiser whatever hybrid they think is fun when its really not. I rather gut condi altogether and just bring back FA, then tweak from there. And for the long of God I wish they could destroy Cata because the class is one of the worst designed specs. Reminds me of when everyone said Daredevil is just an upgrade to core thief. That's basically Cata to Core Ele. 

Fair and correct.

[magickthief.6492]

5 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

To sum it up very nicely:

Ele is gonna be stuck on the hamster wheel permanently as a binary heal support or this crappy condi bruiser whatever hybrid 

 

This is all you had to say, because that is exactly it's core design. It isn't a warrior, it isn't a thief. You want to play those roles? PLAY THOSE ROLES on those classes.

[jdawgie.1835]

This is a good post. And its true. @Sahne.6950 Posted this a hand full of times in different deliveries. I feel for Ele mains. What a yoyo of an experience. The profession is bi-polar because its confused. Either amazing/OP or uninspiring and watered down. IMO the fundamental flaw with ele has always been that its a caster that fights like a melee class. This basic cross over makes the class often during certain patches feel squishy and very, very easily killed - frustrating for ele mains because in order to give big value they are forced into the mix for a lot of their aura sharing, or people feel its OP and unkillable in an effort to give ele mains a chance to not appear, then immediately die on point. I've never seen ele be in a A Tier non over powered state that is accessible and useable for any prolonged period of time. The class is a seesaw. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by jdawgie.1835

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

31 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

This is a good post. And its true. @Sahne.6950 Posted this a hand full of times in different deliveries. I feel for Ele mains. What a yoyo of an experience. The profession is bi-polar because its confused. Either amazing/OP or uninspiring and watered down. IMO the fundamental flaw with ele has always been that its a caster that fights like a melee class. This basic cross over makes the class often during certain patches feel squishy and very, very easily killed - frustrating for ele mains because in order to give big value they are forced into the mix for a lot of their aura sharing, or people feel its OP and unkillable in an effort to give ele mains a chance to not appear, then immediately die on point. I've never seen ele be in a A Tier non over powered state that is accessible and useable for any prolonged period of time. The class is a seesaw. 

Agreed. This also happened to:

Thieves

Necros

Warriors

Condi revenants

Mesmers

Engineers

to date. Something gets pushed, it's omegabusted, then it gets nerfed to worse than it was just so the mechanic that made it omegabusted doesnt have to get reverted, sometimes dragging off meta builds that were kinda, maybe sorta working kicking and screaming as it goes.

Quote

its a caster that fights like a melee class.

Then it should do melee damage. Some of my best fights are vs nuke eles. I would love to see more of that as long as their nuking can be interrupted and doesnt come from across the map with magnetic skills that follow you around before landing, forcing you to dodge-

/upset

I miss d/d. Not the cele one, the buzzsaw one.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Arken.3725]

 

9 hours ago, Poelala.2830 said:

Elementalist is so poorly designed that when the genius that made the signet trait change realized how stupid that was every Elementalist build that exists got nerfed. Earth is just as bad and unusable as before (lmfao??)

Facts: There is no way to get protection on the game's glassiest class outside of elite specs, arcane, and earth. There is no way to get vigor outside of elite specs, arcane, and water.

Earth is unusable in competitive modes. What, exactly, is ementalist supposed to do with earth traitline outside of tempest?

Elementalist (and I think engineer?) are the only classes without the ability to remove boons without assistance from relics/sigils. Most warhorn skills are uncompetitive for dmg builds. The changes to core sword were horrible. 

Why do war and ranger spam endure pain and ele can't, when ele is 3x glassier? 

Why is there literally no way outside of Lightning Hammer to provide ele quickness on core builds?

Why are arcane utility skills unusable? Why is the trait so bad?

Why are glyphs so bad?

Why are CONJURES (with the exception of earth shield) LEGITIMATELY unusable? Have you seen how frostbow plays? It's a joke. You can't land any skill if you tried. I think one of the skills has a 4 second cast time?

Why change the QoL of Dragonhunter's LB 5, but not staff ele's meteor shower? 

Why is staff still so bad?

How come if you want to play anything on weaver except fire/arcane you have either no dmg, NO CLEANSES, or both?

Why are all the core elites unusable?

Why are most of the core heals unusable still?

Is there ever going to be a QoL patch for elementalist? 

Why did you effectively remove the dodge on burning speed with its QoL change?

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THE SIGNETS CHANGE LOL???????

Why is the projectile block on dagger earth 2 so horrible??? The frame starts AFTER you initiate it, and you are often still affected by projectiles when you're using it, especially in fast-paced interactions (all of them in current year)

Why are augments so poor??! Why is it that elementalist is the only class with a 10 unblockable hits utility skill that 1. requires a cast (lmao??) 2. is locked behind catalyst?

Again, why are arcane utility skills unusable??? If you compare the dmg they do and their utility to literally any other utility with similar functionality (i.e. mesmer mantras) it is the worst of them all by far. 

Why does Elementalist, the game's glassiest class, have no access to aegis? WHY DOES BLADESWORN HAVE AEGIS AND ELE DOES NOT LOL

Why can't core elementalist access superspeed outside of sword, lightning hammer, (lol) and air trait line? Now that melee powerhouses like engi and war spam superspeed elementalist is obsolete. 

Why does deadeye literally have stealth on dodge AND CAN REMOVE REVEALED, but elementalist is rendered useless by chill? 

Why is elemtalist the only class rendered useless by a single condition? And then rendered dead by confusion...

Why are so many traits in tempest so horrible STILL? What, exactly, are we supposed to do with Latent Stamina on tempest? With it with we can finally dodge as much as revenant, but now we trade off all damage (because that playstyle is incompatible with the overload playstyle, so no stability or protection either) and our dodges accomplish less than classes who were designed to dodge (deadeye and daredevil, mirage, vindicator and shiro revenant, etc.) What I find insane is how legitimately every traitline with an endurance trait ALSO has a trait that improves the functionality of the dodge WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TEMPEST AND EARTH TRAIT LINE LOL. Think strength warrior's reckless dodge, rousing resilience, building momentum, and might makes right. Think mirage cloak. Think daredevil's endurance thief and all gm traits. 

I can really keep going (obviously).

This is fairly rich.  Guardian is EASILY the worst-designed profession in the game and I can easily prove it.

- No other profession has SO many terribly-tracking skills(Torch, Scepter-Auto, Staff-Auto, LB at max range, Zealot's Defense, Zealot's Embrace, Binding Blade, Leap of Faith)

- The most static class in terms of mechanics(Consecrations, Symbols, rooted-skills)

- Nearly every healing-skill is garbage.  You're taking the lesser of many evils here; same with utilities.  Heaven's palm has got to be the worst Elite-skill in the game, bar none.  

I could go on far more than this dude ever could.  Outside of support, Guardian has been TERRIBLE for the longest time.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Arken.3725

[Sweetbread.3678]

Ele could definitely use a pass on it's utilities, I'll give you that, but largely it's main problem is that it's one of the only somewhat decently designed classes in the game. The issue isn't that Ele actually has to make tradeoffs between sustain and damage or that it's mechanic actually has a real sense of risk vs. reward and opportunity cost (stuff which is actually good game design and we should have more of), it's that so many other classes/specs that don't actually have any real depth/complexity/tradeoffs have been powercrept and overloaded to the same level (or more) as something that's entirely designed around those tradeoffs and complexity mitigating that power level. Ele doesn't need buffs, the rest of the game's brain dead specs just actually need to have their output match their effort required. Balance principles shouldn't fly out the window just because a class was intended for a toddler to be able to pilot.

Like Ele's niche was always being a sort of jack-of-all-trades by having a deep, diverse set of skills which in turn were balanced around being the glassiest class in the game (which absolutely forces trading off damage for defense), having to know and manage twice as many skills, and having all of their effects compartmentalized by mutually-exclusive attunements that have a built in opportunity cost/management mechanic. Now Ele's lost that niche, because everything else has been power crept into also being a jack-of-all-trades, except they get to be it while having only 10 overloaded weapon skills to manage and basic/easy af mechanics like Shroud or Virtues or Whatever as a bonus on top of it. So you end up in a situation where 90% of the time Ele's are stuck abusing horrrrribly designed auras, because it's really their only option. When every other class has the same level of diversity as 20 ele skills crammed into 10, then Ele's class mechanic no longer has any actual benefit to it in the same way that say having a second health bar with shroud does; they're literally just the glassiest class in the game with an incredibly complicated weapon swap for no other reason than "I guess we need a hard mode? *shrug* ".

Edited November 2, 2023 by Sweetbread.3678
formatting

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

35 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

 Guardian is EASILY the worst-designed profession in the game

:J 

[Eddie.9143]

Should be like wow, a slow caster that does big damage that moves slow but can blink around while rotating defensives. Fresh air is such a weird version of ele.

[Saiyan.1704]

All I read was, "please buff Willbender".

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Arken.3725 said:

 

This is fairly rich.  Guardian is EASILY the worst-designed profession in the game and I can easily prove it.

- No other profession has SO many terribly-tracking skills(Torch, Scepter-Auto, Staff-Auto, LB at max range, Zealot's Defense, Zealot's Embrace, Binding Blade, Leap of Faith)

- The most static class in terms of mechanics(Consecrations, Symbols, rooted-skills)

- Nearly every healing-skill is garbage.  You're taking the lesser of many evils here; same with utilities.  Heaven's palm has got to be the worst Elite-skill in the game, bar none.  

I could go on far more than this dude ever could.  Outside of support, Guardian has been TERRIBLE for the longest time.

Long story short; Make your own thread?

 

 

The issue with this game is so obvious. Some classes/specs are CLEARLY far more difficult to play than others. Human logic would dictate that something being harder should be more rewarding, or else why bother? However, the lower effort classes/specs are very popular, and such players feel self entitled to be just as effective as harder classes/specs > complain. The company have slowly pandered to the playerbase and now here we are; Bladesworn.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Arken.3725]

2 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Long story short; Make your own thread?

 

 

The issue with this game is so obvious. Some classes/specs are CLEARLY far more difficult to play than others. Human logic would dictate that something being harder should be more rewarding, or else why bother? However, the lower effort classes/specs are very popular, and such players feel self entitled to be just as effective as harder classes/specs > complain. The company have slowly pandered to the playerbase and now here we are; Bladesworn.

 

Dude, Ele is amazingly designed overall.  It has awesome flow, solid weaponry for the most part.  It was not designed to be static/slow like some others so I don't understand the whining.  

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

Dude, Ele is amazingly designed overall.  It has awesome flow, solid weaponry for the most part.  It was not designed to be static/slow like some others so I don't understand the whining.  

The only thing you didn't understand was the point of my post.

 

Short story long; Make your own thread.