I dont find any benefit in choosing vindi over rene

[Axelteas.7192]

I tried to give a chance to the power vindicator build in fractals. It feels clunky and the dps is not something impressive.

About the alliance stance, the skills are very situational and do not boost enough or do significant improvement.

I always go back to the power bombardment renegade. Better crits by default and more fluid playstyle.

I'm I missing something? Give me reasons to choose vindicator.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

Give me reasons to choose vindicator.

You like playing it. 

[Farohna.6247]

I think it's more just which do you like.   I prefer renegade as well.  Vindi feels like so much energy management to me...more so than ren.  It's just not for me, but I'm happy for anyone who can master it!

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

7 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

I tried to give a chance to the power vindicator build in fractals. It feels clunky and the dps is not something impressive.

About the alliance stance, the skills are very situational and do not boost enough or do significant improvement.

I always go back to the power bombardment renegade. Better crits by default and more fluid playstyle.

I'm I missing something? Give me reasons to choose vindicator.

The DPS is factually considerably higher than PowerRen and one of the highest in the game at the moment 

[aetemes.2603]

4 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

The DPS is factually considerably higher than PowerRen and one of the highest in the game at the moment 

I was just going yo say..I don't own eod..but when I play with vindis they destroy stuff xD..also they can be horrifying in pvp dunno if that changed recently..can't really say I've experienced the same watching renegades.

[Tokizo.8917]

I am the opposite. Whenever I try renegade I feel so chained. The damage is so low and the same with sustain. If I want to do good dps I need to follow a strict rotation and keep a good eye on energy management. Hitting the right point on Kala is hard because you need to be exactly under 10% energy to get the 75% energy on malix to get your dps on. Finding enough energy to give alacrity is also hard.

On vindi on the other side I don't even know what downstate is anymore. If I go for full dps in strikes I often get top dps in my pug groups. Generally vindi is one of the top dps of the game currently. And on solo open world you have 100% uptime of protection, vigor, quickness, fury, regeneration and 25 might. You also have one of the best condi cleanses of the game

[Apolo.5942]

I dislike having 3 legends, if they merged both legends into one, i might play it.

To make matters worse, neither of vindis legends is worth it. They are not impacful enough

Edited November 11, 2023 by Apolo.5942

[Tokizo.8917]

while on Kalla you use it as your 4. skill in rotation:

https://snowcrows.com/builds/revenant/renegade/condition-alacrity-renegade

[Buran.3796]

13 hours ago, Apolo.5942 said:

I dislike having 3 legends, if they merged both legends into one, i might play it.

   In PvE you can entirely ignore the blue part (and the F2).

   In WvW not using Kurzic puts you in a disadvantage that in tie fights could lead to a defeat, but is still fine most of the time.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:16 PM, Farohna.6247 said:

I think it's more just which do you like.   I prefer renegade as well.  Vindi feels like so much energy management to me...more so than ren.  It's just not for me, but I'm happy for anyone who can master it!

How? I am serious how? Renegade is an energy hog unless you are just running the not renegade renegade.

[otto.5684]

6 hours ago, Apolo.5942 said:

I dislike having 3 legends, if they merged both legends into one, i might play it.

To make matters worse, neither of vindis legends is worth it. They are not impacful enough

You do not need to use the blue line in pve as dps. However, it is there for emergency, if you need additional survivability or condi removal.

[Farohna.6247]

4 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

How? I am serious how? Renegade is an energy hog unless you are just running the not renegade renegade.

It is, I run celestial renegade for open world currently, run a celestial wvw build since I mostly roam around solo and take over objectives, and condi for instanced content.  

I don't know lol, just works for me...going with more play time than with vindi.   

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

It is, I run celestial renegade for open world currently, run a celestial wvw build since I mostly roam around solo and take over objectives, and condi for instanced content.  

I don't know lol, just works for me...going with more play time than with vindi.   

   I play celestial builds of Renegade (short bow + staff) at both PvE and WvW (have also Trailblazer/Vindicator builds and in PvE sometimes I run mace & axe), and celestial builds of Vindicator (short bow + greatsword at WvW and short bow + mace & axe in PvE). Renegade is easier to master* (in the sense that has a lower skill cap) but Vindicator is certainly stronger, and in PvE where going blue is rarely needed Vindi is equally easy to play while being more forgiving with mistakes, since you're under almost permanent vigor, regeneration and protection (along with fury and 25 might stacks). I'll up some examples later.

(*) I don't claim to have mastered  any of the two, just to be clear.

[Farohna.6247]

5 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I play celestial builds of Renegade (short bow + staff) at both PvE and WvW (have also Trailblazer/Vindicator builds and in PvE sometimes I run mace & axe), and celestial builds of Vindicator (short bow + greatsword at WvW and short bow + mace & axe in PvE). Renegade is easier to master* (in the sense that has a lower skill cap) but Vindicator is certainly stronger, and in PvE where going blue is rarely needed Vindi is equally easy to play while being more forgiving with mistakes, since you're under almost permanent vigor, regeneration and protection (along with fury and 25 might stacks). I'll up some examples later.

(*) I don't claim to have mastered  any of the two, just to be clear.

That's a good explanation, yes I find it easier to "master"....and vindi is definitely stronger, numbers don't lie lol.  

Lol ok see now after all these, I want to revisit vindi (which I haven't done for a few months).  

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

3 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

That's a good explanation, yes I find it easier to "master"....and vindi is definitely stronger, numbers don't lie lol.  

Lol ok see now after all these, I want to revisit vindi (which I haven't done for a few months).  

I am the opposite I guess. I found Vindi easier to master than Renegade. I am still not comfortable with Renegade, but that's also because Renegade gets completely lost in water situations too. I think the thing that people have to wrap their head around is your dodge is now an offensive attack not a dodge anymore though it still has that, and your two dashes you get as a vindi are now more of your dodge buttons but I found that fairly easy to understand.

[Tora.7214]

I been with a class Identity crisis since beta, always jumping from one class to another because i just never could seem to find a main that suit me. Being mostly a tank in pretty much every mmo I've played it's been hard to find something that has that "juggernaut" feeling of being very tanky and powerful but at the same time that wasn't extremely complicated to play. So the idea of Vindi using 3 legends swayed me away from the class for a long time.

However after hearing you didn't even had to use blue at all besides for heal and cleanse and that you could camp on GS i decided to try it out. And it's been amazing.

The animations and damage feel powerful, great cleave, the gameplay is engaging, its toolkit has pretty much everything; 3 heals, stun break on both legends, gap closer on both legends and weapon, nice burst on both legends (shiro/alliance). Massive survivability in the form of perma buffs, dr passives, the 3 heals and dodging being part of your rotation, your block skill being also a very powerful counter that can easily crit over 30k and a easy access to condi cleanse. you could go full berserker and put celestial geared classes survivability to shame. I'm full zerker and i can jump into a zerg of veteran and elite mobs or face off solo agaisnt SotO open world champions confident that I'll walk away alive. In fact, since i started playing the class at SotO release i think i have only seen the downed state twice.

I can definitely say, after 8 years, that ive found my main.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Tora.7214
.

[Buran.3796]

 Ok, yesterday past some hours selecting some WvW fights in video and pasting them in a couple of samples; most of them are from October but added a couple of them just from this weekend. First the stuff:

  Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAUFlZSMsTqjhScsUyjpSksSign1UVsF-D2IY1o6/QiUBlpUtXRhIvEkgA+bxMzKA-w

 

   Now the context:

* WvW roaming, not duels, mostly random encounters while doing dailies/weeklies, so sometimes the target is surprised, others I'm the one unaware, others get involved, etc.  Oftenly I don't even run food, but so far so good: is all fair.  

* Some people run builds designed to endure but able to disengage if things go wrong; outside when I use Willbender I usually don't do that (I don't have keys configured to use Riposting Shadows to chase, for example), tho in my experience if your foe can't kill your Vindicator in the first minute He's are going to lose. 

* The first video is mostly victories, the second one defeats, which are quite interesting to learn. My main weakness is the lack of use to swap to Kurzic, almost absent, but I'm improving at that. Still,  cele Vindi has plenty of clensings with a single sigil and evades, thanx to the constant access to vigor. Notice also that I'm running Durability relic and not Antitoxin, yet condi management is fine. In good hands (not mines) the build is almost unkillable by other condi builds, which are most in the roaming meta nowadays. 

* Albeit most of the pressure from the build comes from the bow as in the Renegade unlike him has plenty of ways to win: the greatsword with cele stats does plenty of damage and just spamming reflections won't work as the Eles can confirm. You can see in the fight in the middle vs the Cata that he has sometimes more boons (6 vs 5), better acces to stability and higher burst of condis (6+ vs 3-4) but my boons last longer and Vindi washes cleaner.

* I've found a Necro support which I wasn't able to kill but He wasn't able to kill me either and I was able to take down an enemy camp while fighting him so was fine for me. I think that most of matchups with this Vindi build are either in our favour or neutral, albeit is hard to evaluate all the spectrum since power builds are less frequent than in the past. Specs which gives me more troubles are well played Harbingers and Reapers along with some Mesmers and maybe Holo, but I think that my lack of knownledge about how those work at fine level weights more that the build being weaker than those.

   That's all, feel free to critize and showcase defects; I'm eager to be corrected and get advice. Greetings.

[Farohna.6247]

Thanks to some of the comments here I decided to go and revisit vindi.  My renegade build, although fun and very survivable, felt like it was getting slow since the last patch.   Tried a condi build that I've used before, but yikes I died a lot...ouch.  So went and found a build for vindi, and it is a lot of fun!!  Lol still getting used to dodge being a little different but overall it is a great change!

[Angesombre.4630]

The big change is tomorrow for vindicator.😭

Edited November 27, 2023 by Angesombre.4630

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

The big change is tomorrow for vindicator.😭

🎉

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:37 PM, Tora.7214 said:

I been with a class Identity crisis since beta, always jumping from one class to another because i just never could seem to find a main that suit me. Being mostly a tank in pretty much every mmo I've played it's been hard to find something that has that "juggernaut" feeling of being very tanky and powerful but at the same time that wasn't extremely complicated to play. So the idea of Vindi using 3 legends swayed me away from the class for a long time.

However after hearing you didn't even had to use blue at all besides for heal and cleanse and that you could camp on GS i decided to try it out. And it's been amazing.

The animations and damage feel powerful, great cleave, the gameplay is engaging, its toolkit has pretty much everything; 3 heals, stun break on both legends, gap closer on both legends and weapon, nice burst on both legends (shiro/alliance). Massive survivability in the form of perma buffs, dr passives, the 3 heals and dodging being part of your rotation, your block skill being also a very powerful counter that can easily crit over 30k and a easy access to condi cleanse. you could go full berserker and put celestial geared classes survivability to shame. I'm full zerker and i can jump into a zerg of veteran and elite mobs or face off solo agaisnt SotO open world champions confident that I'll walk away alive. In fact, since i started playing the class at SotO release i think i have only seen the downed state twice.

I can definitely say, after 8 years, that ive found my main.

Using the Boon dodge + Endurance refill on kill sigil will make you feel like an absolute beast. You're running around permanently capped on might and protection, with 2 stunbreaks, basically infinite condi cleanse. Alliance stance is so powerful I'm baffled how many people don't seem to like it lmao.

[Knighthonor.4061]

2 hours ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

Using the Boon dodge + Endurance refill on kill sigil will make you feel like an absolute beast. You're running around permanently capped on might and protection, with 2 stunbreaks, basically infinite condi cleanse. Alliance stance is so powerful I'm baffled how many people don't seem to like it lmao.

Role matters. The nerfs to support makes vindicator support weak compared to Ventari and other legend for utility. 

[Jianyu.7065]

I genuinely find "give me a reason to xyz" posts absolutely ridiculous. If you dont like something, why does anyone need to convince you? This isnt to insult anyone - just an observation that the best thing you can always do is doing something you enjoy or like regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I also dont like playing Vindicator either. I dont like the way it plays - Ren is much more fun. Period. 

[Buran.3796]

6 hours ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

Using the Boon dodge + Endurance refill on kill sigil will make you feel like an absolute beast.

   That doesn't work vs bosses, in PvP or WvW.

   And won't be particulary notable at trashing weak mobs either: tried Phandrel's magic dust farm in branded maps using both pure power Vindi and pure power Deadeye and Deadeye is faster: both can one shoot (or two hits or three at most) yet DE is better because you can do it at 1500 range. The patch trades useful traits across all game modes for useless traits amongst most game modes which also requires an anodine new mechanic ir oder to do something in niche departments of the game.