Is Distortion/Invulns healthy?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

23 minutes ago, Jhule.7230 said:

Remove the excessive health pools on all the other classes

Mesmer has three classes with lower health pools than it, and two with the same health pool

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then you can remove distortion that lasts for 1 second because most of the time you wont have enough clones to get the full distortion amount anyway because most people would kite or 1shot the clones. 

virtuoso / Escape artist / instant 2clones from decoy

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remove all other channelled blocks and invulnerabilities and evades apart from dodge

Mesmer has these too

 

Why are y'all being so weird about it lmao

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Jhule.7230 said:

Remove the excessive health pools on all the other classes and remove all other channelled blocks and invulnerabilities and evades apart from dodge, then you can remove distortion that lasts for 1 second because most of the time you wont have enough clones to get the full distortion amount anyway because most people would kite or 1shot the clones. In other words the dev's arent going to rebuild all the classes just for you because of a 1 second distortion.

Oh come on, you have 2 stuns, you can instantly target drop, then follow up with a 3 second invuln, then follow up with a TP, then follow up with invis. Then, as a last ditch, pop contin, dodge like you mean it, then get a second life, and your initial utility will be off CD. I mean thats just me with avg skill on chrono, better chronos use split utility far more effectively.

 

Oh, and try ele with beserker amu 😜 that should be manditory before anybody complains about hp, even thieves.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2023 - People still complain about mesmer, even tho it has been nerfed in every patch since PoF.

Thieves complaining about mesmer make me hard tho, a free kill for thieves and they still cry.

[shion.2084]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:05 AM, Exciton.8942 said:

I disagree. I think short duration invul is good design of the game so that you don't just straight up die in 1vX.

Possibly.... If you can't do damage while having invuln or distortion.   Engi potion S is (excepting some edge cases) a reasonable way to offer an emergency invuln.

[Jhule.7230]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Mesmer has three classes with lower health pools than it, and two with the same health pool

virtuoso / Escape artist / instant 2clones from decoy

Mesmer has these too

 

Why are y'all being so weird about it lmao

Escape artist is distortion to a phantasm not the mesmer, and decoy is situational that you wouldnt run on virt in pvp. Maybe on chrono. Your points make no difference. The dev's arent going to rework all the classes, specially ones that have niche mechanics to the profession like mesmers distortion.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 minutes ago, Jhule.7230 said:

Escape artist is distortion to a phantasm not the mesmer,

Yeah but it gives you a free clone that you can predict the appearance of! Phantasms become clones, and if you know your torch 5 expires in 4 seconds then becomes a clone....

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Your points make no difference. The dev's arent going to rework all the classes, specially ones that have niche mechanics to the profession like mesmers distortion.

I mean, yeah; this is all shadowboxing. It's still funny though, even though distortion is here to stay. The devs just need to keep that in mind when they're balancing things that don't have as large a grace period. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[dead.7638]

It’s funny I don’t even check other class forums.   Cry harder everyone I’ll be smiling on the other end living rent free.   Or idk, fight a Mesmer until you actually understand the class to be making your complaints.   I’d love any of you to play the level of Mesmer at the degree of the ones you’re getting clapped by.   Keep clicking your auto skill maybe one day you’ll learn to add dodge in your rotation or take at least one condi cleanse in your build.   Keep coping on one of the biggest tell tale classes in the game.   If you got f1 gitgud.   Mesmer is ez to shut down if you know how to poke them.

Edited November 8, 2023 by dead.7638

[Sweetbread.3678]

38 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Cry harder everyone I’ll be smiling on the other end living rent free.

Yup. Sounds like a Mesmer player.

[Shagie.7612]

whats with mesmers constantly insisting they're the worst class ever that can't do anything even when they're actively meta in any given patch

even the top ones do it lol

[Terrorhuz.4695]

It's healthy for 2 reasons

- From a defensive point of views, mesmer gets extremely mediocre cleanse and no stab because Distortion is the intended answer to both CC and conditions; it's extremely versatile, however, thus has a decent cooldown. But that's the reason why mesmer gets, arguably, the best invuln in the game: Distortion is the intended answer to a mechanic you have no other way to deal with, and you need to be extremely careful in its usage because it's a big cooldown to spend, and it's the only one of its kind you have.

- From an offensive point of view, all classes will have the tools to cover a burst from CC\weaknessORblind\counterpressure. Every class gets their "SHUT UP IT'S MY TURN NOW!" moment through some means. Willbenders get it via their F3, reapers have shroud, for soulbeast it's the smokescale merge, for warriors it's Berserker mode, for harbingers it's Elixir of Ambition, so on so forth. When any of these tools is used, you stop whatever you're doing and you defend because counterattacking would be pointless; for mesmer, this tool comes from Distortion.

There is a design choice to be made here: most classes get different tools to secure these two sides of their gameplay (one set of tools to protect your burst when you need to attack, a different set of tools to keep you alive when you need to defend); on the positive side, those tools are extremely strong in their role with very affordable cooldowns, and you can take several of them if need be; on the negative side, they require investment (in traits, utilities or whatever).
Mesmer, on the other hand, has a class mechanic to do all that: on the positive side it comes for free, and out of the box it already does everything you could ask for; on the negative side this is literally all you get, and the lengthy cooldown forces you to choose whether you want to commit your distortion to defend or to attack, and if you make the wrong call you have 50s to think about how badly you just kittened up.
You can and should remove Blurred Inscriptions, you can and should rework Signet of Illusions so it doesn't refund the entirety of Distortion, you can and should call for virtuoso to lose Distortion in favor of the original iteration of Bladeturn Requiem, and I'm an advocate for making Distortion channeled on chronomancer.
BUT.
When it comes to the skill itself you all need a reality check:  as a mesmer, once every 50s you get to decide whether you're covering a burst or you're saving it for some condi bomb you have no other counterplay against. It's the strongest tool of its kind BECAUSE it is designed to exist within the limitations explicitly designed for the mesmer class ever since it was released, and you all can learn to live with this.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[GuriGashi.5617]

32 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

It's healthy for 2 reasons

- From a defensive point of views, mesmer gets extremely mediocre cleanse and no stab because Distortion is the intended answer to both CC and conditions; it's extremely versatile, however, thus has a decent cooldown. But that's the reason why mesmer gets, arguably, the best invuln in the game: Distortion is the intended answer to a mechanic you have no other answer for, and you need to be extremely careful in its usage because it's a big cooldown to spend.

- From an offensive point of view, all classes will have the tools to cover a burst from CC\Weakness\counterpressure. For mesmer the tool to cover your burst is Distortion, other classes get their "SHUT UP IT'S MY TURN NOW!" moment through other means. Willbenders get it via their F3, reapers have shroud, for soulbeast it's the smokescale merge, for warriors it's Berserker mode, for harbingers it's Elixir of Ambition. When any of that happens you stop whatever you're doing and you defend because counterattacking is pointless.

Most classes get different tools to do that; on the positive side, those tools are extremely strong in their niche (either to defend or to attack) with affordable cooldowns; on the negative side, they require investment (in traits, utilities or whatever).
Mesmer -by design- gets a single tool to do all of that: on the positive side it comes for free and does everything you could ask for, on the negative side the lengthy cooldown forces you to choose whether you want to commit your distortion to defend or to attack, and if you make the wrong call you have 50s to think about how badly you just kittened up.
You can and should remove Blurred Inscriptions, you can and should rework Signet of Illusions so it doesn't refund the entirety of Distortion, and I'm an advocate for making Distortion channeled on chronomancer, but when it comes to skill itself you all need a reality check:  as a mesmer, once every 50s you get to decide whether you're covering a burst or you're waiting it for some condi bomb you have no other answer against. You all can live with this.

Real af 

[Vinny.7260]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

It's healthy for 2 reasons

- From a defensive point of views, mesmer gets extremely mediocre cleanse and no stab because Distortion is the intended answer to both CC and conditions; it's extremely versatile, however, thus has a decent cooldown. But that's the reason why mesmer gets, arguably, the best invuln in the game: Distortion is the intended answer to a mechanic you have no other way to deal with, and you need to be extremely careful in its usage because it's a big cooldown to spend, and it's the only one of its kind you have.

- From an offensive point of view, all classes will have the tools to cover a burst from CC\weaknessORblind\counterpressure. Every class gets their "SHUT UP IT'S MY TURN NOW!" moment through some means. Willbenders get it via their F3, reapers have shroud, for soulbeast it's the smokescale merge, for warriors it's Berserker mode, for harbingers it's Elixir of Ambition, so on so forth. When any of these tools is used, you stop whatever you're doing and you defend because counterattacking would be pointless; for mesmer, this tool comes from Distortion.

There is a design choice to be made here: most classes get different tools to secure these two sides of their gameplay (one set of tools to protect your burst when you need to attack, a different set of tools to keep you alive when you need to defend); on the positive side, those tools are extremely strong in their role with very affordable cooldowns, and you can take several of them if need be; on the negative side, they require investment (in traits, utilities or whatever).
Mesmer, on the other hand, has a class mechanic to do all that: on the positive side it comes for free, and out of the box it already does everything you could ask for; on the negative side this is literally all you get, and the lengthy cooldown forces you to choose whether you want to commit your distortion to defend or to attack, and if you make the wrong call you have 50s to think about how badly you just kittened up.
You can and should remove Blurred Inscriptions, you can and should rework Signet of Illusions so it doesn't refund the entirety of Distortion, you can and should call for virtuoso to lose Distortion in favor of the original iteration of Bladeturn Requiem, and I'm an advocate for making Distortion channeled on chronomancer.
BUT.
When it comes to the skill itself you all need a reality check:  as a mesmer, once every 50s you get to decide whether you're covering a burst or you're saving it for some condi bomb you have no other counterplay against. It's the strongest tool of its kind AND it is designed to exist within the limitations explicitly designed for the mesmer class ever since it was released, and you all can learn to live with this.

You actually managed to call out all the things I was going to mention. Specifically Blurred Inscriptions and Signet of Illusions. Heck, even the fact that Chronomancer has advantage with CS- so forcing them to channel their Distortion!

👍

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

It's healthy for 2 reasons

- From a defensive point of views, mesmer gets extremely mediocre cleanse and no stab because Distortion is the intended answer to both CC and conditions; it's extremely versatile, however, thus has a decent cooldown. But that's the reason why mesmer gets, arguably, the best invuln in the game: Distortion is the intended answer to a mechanic you have no other way to deal with, and you need to be extremely careful in its usage because it's a big cooldown to spend, and it's the only one of its kind you have.

- From an offensive point of view, all classes will have the tools to cover a burst from CC\weaknessORblind\counterpressure. Every class gets their "SHUT UP IT'S MY TURN NOW!" moment through some means. Willbenders get it via their F3, reapers have shroud, for soulbeast it's the smokescale merge, for warriors it's Berserker mode, for harbingers it's Elixir of Ambition, so on so forth. When any of these tools is used, you stop whatever you're doing and you defend because counterattacking would be pointless; for mesmer, this tool comes from Distortion.

There is a design choice to be made here: most classes get different tools to secure these two sides of their gameplay (one set of tools to protect your burst when you need to attack, a different set of tools to keep you alive when you need to defend); on the positive side, those tools are extremely strong in their role with very affordable cooldowns, and you can take several of them if need be; on the negative side, they require investment (in traits, utilities or whatever).
Mesmer, on the other hand, has a class mechanic to do all that: on the positive side it comes for free, and out of the box it already does everything you could ask for; on the negative side this is literally all you get, and the lengthy cooldown forces you to choose whether you want to commit your distortion to defend or to attack, and if you make the wrong call you have 50s to think about how badly you just kittened up.
You can and should remove Blurred Inscriptions, you can and should rework Signet of Illusions so it doesn't refund the entirety of Distortion, you can and should call for virtuoso to lose Distortion in favor of the original iteration of Bladeturn Requiem, and I'm an advocate for making Distortion channeled on chronomancer.
BUT.
When it comes to the skill itself you all need a reality check:  as a mesmer, once every 50s you get to decide whether you're covering a burst or you're saving it for some condi bomb you have no other counterplay against. It's the strongest tool of its kind AND it is designed to exist within the limitations explicitly designed for the mesmer class ever since it was released, and you all can learn to live with this.

Actually not weird synopsis/10 ❤️

[Flowki.7194]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:59 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Their heal? The one nobody takes because if their opponent has two brain cells and doesnt hit them they're effectively robbed of a heal?

Sorry friend, not making the case you think you are.

Beat by @Lan Deathrider.5910 but... a skill that (by demonstration in this thread) relies on people not reading what it does is no competitor with a skill that allows you to retroactively correct mistakes.

Not arguing that distortion is unfair on the face but its kind of weird when people try to defend it by comparing it to other defensives and come up short.

Yes but when you stop attacking, the warrior effectively has a 4 second immune, while still being able to attack. How much damage could have been done to the warrior in that time? Likely more damage than healing that is lost from using another heal ability. In group fights its a free health bar, but the warrior simply has better heal options that make it look kitten.

 

Genuinely, I would trade you any of my ele heals for that ability, it would be amazing to pop just before burst. Attack me? fine, don't attack me? fine. 4 seconds of free nuke and still arcane shield, definately not fine ;p.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

25 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Yes but when you stop attacking, the warrior effectively has a 4 second immune, while still being able to attack. How much damage could have been done to the warrior in that time?

You are still vulnerable to CC while this ticks. Make of that what you will.

Quote

Genuinely, I would trade you any of my ele heals for that ability, it would be amazing to pop just before burst.

Give me Signet of restoration. Thanks~

 

 

[Kuma.1503]

They're not inherently unhealthy. Short duration channeled invulns are just extra dodges. 

Distortion for mesmer consumes the same resource they use to pressure you with, so that introduces a trade-off to using it. 

Virtuoso's invuln starts to skirt that line because they have it on top of all of their aegis and blocks, but it's been toned down enough that it's mostly fine. 

[Flowki.7194]

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

You are still vulnerable to CC while this ticks. Make of that what you will.

Give me Signet of restoration. Thanks~

 

 

Armor of earth has to be used anyway, nothing changes in that regard. What does change is the fact I can now stand in the middle of all the bs aoe spam (DH, scourge etc) and do my burst. Signet of restoration does nothing for that.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

12 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Armor of earth has to be used anyway, nothing changes in that regard. What does change is the fact I can now stand in the middle of all the bs aoe spam (DH, scourge etc) and do my burst. Signet of restoration does nothing for that.

I'm not the kind of person to stand in the middle of bursts or consider skills that allow me to do that and little else when there are more flexible choices very valuable, but you do you~

[Flowki.7194]

9 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm not the kind of person to stand in the middle of bursts or consider skills that allow me to do that and little else when there are more flexible choices very valuable, but you do you~

There are multiple specs that are doing just that, popping a button that lets them stand in the middle of all the low skill damage. That warrior heal would allow me to do that, so that I am not forced out of many situations (or off points) simple because I don't have an effective immune that allows me to continue doing damage, like so many other specs now have. That warrior heal would 100% allow me that option, or do you think I don't have the right to use dagger offhand?

 

Just saying, that heal isnt bad at all, any power burst spec would benefit from it, becuase you simply profit if they attack or not, its offensive af used like that.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[vilesoldier.9826]

36 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Armor of earth has to be used anyway, nothing changes in that regard. What does change is the fact I can now stand in the middle of all the bs aoe spam (DH, scourge etc) and do my burst. Signet of restoration does nothing for that.

 

Imagine wishing you had Defiant stance so you can stand in scourge elite.

Health pov: 15%>85%>15%

[Flowki.7194]

12 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

Imagine wishing you had Defiant stance so you can stand in scourge elite.

Health pov: 15%>85%>15%

Imagine thinking scourge denying a point by standing still and spamming aoe at its feet is fine.

[vilesoldier.9826]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

Imagine thinking scourge denying a point by standing still and spamming aoe at its feet is fine.

 

And you think getting to stand in it, tanking condis that'll outlast your 'invuln', is the answer?

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

And you think getting to stand in it, tanking condis that'll outlast your 'invuln', is the answer?

No, being able to do burst that requires more effort and skill than the scourge dropping AOE on its feet is the answer. But I get it, you think I should stay out of range and just allow him that area for free. He sure earned it.

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

No, being able to do burst that requires more effort and skill than the scourge dropping AOE on its feet is the answer. But I get it, you think I should stay out of range and just allow him that area for free. He sure earned it.

 

Ah yes, the classic.

"My buttons are harder to press correctly than yours. Positioning? Timing? Kiting? what's that? For all I care, I should be rewarded for my bravery playing ele by not having to press WASD"

"How DARE a skill (elite) have consequences that I have to consider?"

 

👏Keep ignoring basic game-sense, you're an ele, you sure earned it.

Edited November 10, 2023 by vilesoldier.9826

[Flowki.7194]

7 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

Ah yes, the classic.

"My buttons are harder to press correctly than yours. Positioning? Timing? Kiting? what's that? For all I care, I should be rewarded for my bravery playing ele by not having to press WASD"

👏Keep ignoring basic game-sense, you're an ele, you sure earned it.

Positioning, timing, kiting, meanwhile, the scourge stands there, dropping aoe its feet, completely earning the counter play required.

 

I thought exposing your double standards would take more work, man was I wrong.