Let’s Talk About Marketing...

[MadBomber.3719]

I think the real issue is keeping what playerbase you have left. You can market all you want but if you continue to neglect gamemodes and stop communicating with your playerbase those players arent going to be around very long.

I know this post probably wont be read cause it has to do with WvW, WvW imo is something that had/ has a lot of potential that Anet has decided to ignore. Many players including myself were drawn to GW2 because of WvW. Many of those players are now starting to leave/ have the game. GW2 has some of, if not the best combat system out of any MMO. It is why WvW has so much potential as a gamemode and something anet should really use to market their game. However any marketing will do no good if you cant keep your playerbase.

[Nana.9512]

Tbh, I liked the PoF launch trailer better. It told a story with narration and fitting footage in the background. It also showed some glimpses of the new elite specs.As a player searching for a new game I sure look at what other people say, but I look at both sides, positive and negative. So a video clearly made by the publisher and only showing the good stuff... would not convince me to play a game.

Guild Wars 2 has so much to offer, just show it to the world.

A beautiful world with so much details in every place, that is so much fun to explore.So many NPCs with interessting stories and tones of lore.No boring traditional questing, but dynamic events that bring a map to life, collection that lead you through whole Tyria and even Hearts that feel like mini-quests.Nine classes witch two elite specs eacht that are unique and have some badass skill animation, why not show more of these?Fractals as end-game dungeons with scaling difficulty.Raids that do not need hours to complete and offer a challenge even for experienced players.Regular Living World updates, that don't only continue the story but also bring new maps into the game to explore.Five different mounts that make moving from A to B so much fun.

Guild Wars 2 is far from perfect but I enjoy it very much, means you're doing a damn good job ANet.

I'm not an expert at marketing but I always liked game promotion videos, where an NPC or playable character told their story/inroduced themself and shows some cool aspects of the game in the process. Maybe one of each races could introduce their customs and main city. In general I would make a number of small videos that focus on one aspect each, one for exploration, one for each class/spec etc.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Why not Billboards/animated ones in New York?

[blambidy.3216]

Personally I don’t think you should use any Old video trailer content to get new people. I personally think you should have your devs actually playing the game to draw people in.

Since your base advertising pof. Take the pof story and do the basic part Balthazar where you die, or any clip with Balthazar just not the same as you used for the prerelease of pof. Then show the adventures in getting the mounts. The gameplay in taking down Balthazar. Gameplay of raids that were just added and new fractal. I think that would be better. But don’t just do quotes of people.Take those people who quote it, and ask them their best moments in the game and put those clips in the trailer.

[Orpheal.8263]

This video imo lets me cold as a player...Would I see this as a new player, or one, who plays already GW2 and made a break, I would't get incentiviced to return or to even begin with this game...

The comments every few seconds just feel only disturbing...When I look an advertisement about a game, I want to see the game, not some comments of peopel I don't know at all, where Anet thought, their statements do fit into their advertisement...A good advertisement of a game doesn't need any comments of random players, it speaks for itself.Pictures/Video Material do say more, than 1000 words/any one liner comments for unknown people can ever express.

1 Minute Videos are pointless, you can#t show and advertise a game of this size, this complecity and this grade of detail and content in just 60 seconds, and expect from that, that this will make the people storm your house practically and everyone wantign to play now the game. Impossible.

A good advertisement trailer, with depth is at least 3 Minutes long, 180 seconds are enough to put good context into the advertising, that the advertise can also explain a few things and show gameplay elements and not just only premade scenes that show actually no gameplay, but give the viewr more the impression of watching just a 1 minute movie.This kind of movie feelign can you use for the beginning and the end of the trailer, like the first and last 30 seconds, but the big meaty middle of the advertisement must deliver in the 2 minutes that are left for it all the infos that the viewer show see and get to know about the game in a context rich way, that the viewer can also grasp and understand, how those shown features work in the game, why they are especially in this game unique, what differentiates this game from the rest. These two minutes have to show and explain exactly this and fill the shown pictures and elements of the game with context - contest that has the main goal solely to create interest, to awake in the viewer the feeling, that he7she has either to begin playing this game, or that the game under the view of a veteran players has by now improved so much over time, that you have to return and experience thecontent, that you didn#t have so far while you made a break.

Nothing of this kind of impression did I have within these 70 seconds of this tiny trailer, - this 1 minute movie which just basically showed only a few key features of PoF in a felt quick flyby, without explaining anythign at all and distracting the viewer meanwhile every two seconds with absolutely uninteresting unimportant player statements, which are for the viewer even completely irrelevant and unproofable, if these peopel even really exist, or if this is just the typical marketing trick of doign so, as if there were some people who stated these things to make the video look good, but these peopel in fact dont even exist at all... because we all know too well that marketing is basically just only an other word for the mastery of customer manipulation in a psychological way of viewing it.So advertisements do even use also too kind of "fake statements" to let the people simply read, what they should read to make the product look better.

So I can agree only with whom said earlier in this tread, that Anet should let the game and its content speak for itself, such comments are totally obsolete and is nothing that is ever needed... and is what just only blender games need and make usage of most of all times.

I'd use 3 Minutes for an advertisement Video about GW2 PoF like this way:

Second 0-30 = Introduction, show of Logo, Partners. little introduction scene to show, that the upcoming scenes, are about the content of the expansion and what is about to come in Living Word Season 4, maybe in these seconds is one of the devs basically presenting the trailer, cause..reasons, its always nice to see when devs basically introduce and present their own content ;)Second 31-60 = Shows the Main Features of PoF (Mounts), with some Gameplay shown what they do (Leap, Teleport, Jump, Float, Fly) and Elite SpcializationsSecond 61 to 70 = Shows Story Sequences of PoF without spoiling too muchSecond 71 to 100 = Show the Specs in Action with the Games Combat System in PvP and some mixed in scenes from WvWSecond 101 to 110 = Show the new Guild Hall and the social aspects of the game like Guild Missions, Dungeons brieflySecond 111 to 130 = Show Fractals and RaidsSecond 131 to 149 = Show Crafting Legendary Items (new ones), some form of new rewards you can get in PoF, cause peopel love to see new shinies and rewards they can strive forSecond 150 to 180 = Ending Scenes and a little mixture/closure of all the above, together with a tiny sneek peak about Living World Season 4 that ends the Trailer, because there has always to be that kind of bright light at the end of the tunnel, something that people want to have soon™️ and can't wait for to let the hype train getting started. chooo choo

Dont take these numbers now too serious, in the end its the decision of anet how much time they#s give to each of thse things, but thats how i#d kind of split up these 180 seconds worth of content into a context ful trailer, that shows more, than jiust only briefly a few premade scenes from PoF...

You'll see, a 3 minute trailer will definetely in the end generate much more player interest among new as also like returning veteran players, than such a 1 minute movie with obsolete distracting comments will ever be able to create.

[evilsofa.7296]

No dragons?

[Spurnshadow.3678]

@nehezbegar.1065 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:I appreciate the engagement, but how much are you getting paid? I'm not going to do your job.

Well, developers are also getting paid and ppl want to burn them in hell if they don't listen to players feedback. Why a marketing person can't ask a question and discuss stuff to attract new players to the game ? This was a kitten comment to me.

As for the video, my only complaint is the quotes, i didint sell the game for me, id rather see what content the game offers :). Also why not include some HoT stuff? Considering GW2 style of progression HoT is still relevant i believe :)

Because this video is a simple thing and it's garbage. I could write 2000 words or more on how to improve it which is a lot of time on my part. Scanning through the thread, he's gotten a lot of feedback, but not things that are core issues. Also, there's the issue of lack of marketing in general that has nothing to do with this video. More feedback. Common. Get real.

[Nash.2681]

I don't know what to think of this... should I be glad that Arena.Net gets a bit more in touch with their players, or should I be worried, that random forum users need to tell the Head of Global Marketing how to do his job right...Anyway, since this franchise still means a lot to me, even after quite some decisions recently that were a big let down for me, I'll try to give some short advice (haven't read all 4 pages, probably it was already mentioned)

1. If you quote someone, make sure the quote can be verified. Names of random forum users /players usually don't qualify for this.
2. Do not quote your own playerbase, even if you make clear it's forum / reddit quotes. Everyone remotely interested will go to the source and read a bit themselves and then they will see, that there's not only "awesome", "outstanding", "everything is great" feedback, but also quite some critical replies, likely leaving the potential customer with a "alright, they're desperate seeking new players aka money, this game seems to already go downhill" impression
3. Let the game speak for itself. Show some actual ingame footage, explain what is shown and what players can do.

[Dethh.4620]

While I think the points in my post and feedback from everyone here still stands, I'd really like to see something with a cameo like World of Warcraft did with Chuck Norris, Mr.T, etc. It's proven to do well on TV/online in bringing in new players in a more viral form. It would be really interesting to see something like this for GW2. I can just imagine a Game of Thrones actor doing a cameo.

[Suicu.2549]

You need to put a small text somewhere in the beginning/end where it says "everything is in-game footage". Like that is really impressive, and we (the veterans) all know how great this game looks like, but people new to the franchise might not believe the game looks this good by itself, and think it's cgi. And not appreciate it.

[AlexanderDracul.7492]

@Suicu.2549 said:You need to put a small text somewhere in the beginning/end where it says "everything is in-game footage". Like that is really impressive, and we (the veterans) all know how great this game looks like, but people new to the franchise might not believe the game looks this good by itself, and think it's cgi. And not appreciate it.

GW2 itself is kind of end game. The leveling process is just a huge exploration/adventure until end game content.

I agree with the "quote from random person" being meaningless since I don't really look at it as "oh this person said it's good, so it has to be!". I see quotes as just text space for the developer to sell me something so I would suggest using text space for something different. Maybe showing off mounts with text saying something about the mount feature. It's not a perfect example but I'd suggest using text space differently either way.

[zealex.9410]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:Other posters have provided suggestions about things to add to the video (or to replace some of the existing vignettes). How long of a video are you aiming for? A minute seems short for a Youtube video, but placed on other platforms might be just about the right length.

Id assume this to be a youtube add. But idk.

[Hevoskuuri.3891]

It's great to hear Arenanet is upping their game on marketing, this game truly deserves a broader audience and more attention on gaming news sites, most of them barely scratched PoF if even that.

Like many have said, cherry picking comments made by fans may appeal to some, but personally I don't see it attracts interest on a wider scale. People need to SEE something concrete. The two things that have always drawn me back to the game are: the game is unique and distinct from many other MMO's, as well as it hosts a large variety of things to do for everyone. Multiple game modes are available to any of your characters, and you can jump right in without worrying about gear grind or endless leveling (with raids and high-level fractals being the obvious exception, but the claim is still true all the same. Everything CAN be completed without metabuilds and ascendeds).

What I would love to see in a GW2 advertisement are exactly those; showing people that this is NOT your typical MMO, and the fact that there's something for everyone. Show them bits of intensive PvP matches, large-scale WvW battles, some bits of cool story moments, open world events, fractals and the like. Show off the beautiful game world! I think actually showing people what they are missing is likely to make them drawn in.

Someone also mentioned a very important thing: showing old players what has changed. I constantly see comments in Reddit and other social medias about old players thinking about coming back, and asking what's new and has issue X been fixed etc. Drawing back old players is important, since those who already have max-level characters and lots of hours clocked in are likely to invest into the expansions when they see what Guild Wars 2 has become. That's my two cents.

An off-topic question: are there any department leaders at Arenanet who are not named Mike? :D

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Mike Silbowitz.1827 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:Other posters have provided suggestions about things to add to the video (or to replace some of the existing vignettes). How long of a video are you aiming for? A minute seems short for a Youtube video, but placed on other platforms might be just about the right length.

Hi! The video is intended to be about 1 minute in length and utilized via social channels targeting people who play video games but have not yet played GW2.Glad you're here engaging the community. I think one of the biggest draws for new players is this:

1. Free to play until Level 80
2. NO SUBSCRIPTION FEES -- EVER
3. Massive world with dynamic events that bring players together

If you want to sell the expansion, the biggest draws:

1. Only $30 for the expansion
2. Mounts to travel the five new maps and all old world content
3. Free Level 80 Boost and New Specializations
4. New content is released every few months via Living World

Right now I see everyone stumbling over themselves (in social media comments for other MMOs and games) saying how they won't try ESO, FFIV and WoW because of the monthly subscription fees. The fact that you guys can provide this much content and release new content regularly without the costs of the other MMOs is a huge factor. I think you need to sell the "TRY ME FOR FREE" aspect of the game. Lure people in with the pretty visuals and scenes of the game but make them want to try it. If I were looking for a game to play and I saw, "Play the entire base game for free" I'd give it a try. You guys don't really emphasize that and I think you should. It's a HUGE advantage you have over other AAA MMOs right now.

[Frozenpants.5491]

Thank you for including the community in this, word of mouth is one of the best forms of promotion and if we can convince our friends perhaps our insight can help convince others. I'm a returning player myself for Pof and i never played Hot so i've been enjoying catching up on both, what's kept me playing? The content, the world and the story. Many in this thread have already bought up great points on how you should focus on the content and really highlight that, let the game speak for itself.

Above is an example of a fan made video that puts together a lot of the ideas suggested in this thread, the use of music, story characters, scenes from the world and displaying gameplay in a cinematic format is really apealing to new and old players alike, the start of it gives me goosebumps. A few tweaks to the captions to be more inclusive of new players and you have yourself a trailer right there.

This second video is also a good example of really focusing on what makes Gw2 stand out from other MMOs, the great mechanics of the Griffon flying over the beautiful landscapes of Gw2 and backed by powerful music that really leaves a lasting impression on the viewer. I could easily imagine a mount focused trailer showcasing Raptors leaping over canyons, Skimmers exploring the oceans, Jackels braving the deserts and Bunnys being bunnys. Then with the finale of the Griffon soaring above all of them all... Make your new players want to explore and play your game by showing it to them.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Mike Silbowitz.1827 said:

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:Other posters have provided suggestions about things to add to the video (or to replace some of the existing vignettes). How long of a video are you aiming for? A minute seems short for a Youtube video, but placed on other platforms might be just about the right length.

Hi! The video is intended to be about 1 minute in length and utilized via social channels targeting people who play video games but have not yet played GW2.

You cannot express/experience the qualities of this game in 1 minute.

Edit: Put a warning at the beginning. Tell them to sit down and turn up the volume.

[Anchoku.8142]

For new or returning players, they will be enticed at least as much by an offer to help catch up to current, veteran players,

Come up with an introductory package for new and returning players. Make it genuinely attractive by including one elite. Prioritize players boosting into HoT or PoF into maps with mentors to assist with mapping and events. (Engineering can figure that out.) Include a bunch of Black Lion chest Keyes or a guaranteed claim ticket. Give a couple of bank slots and a few extra bag slots with bags. Provide account bound materials to level crafting for 1 craft. Add all that to way points, some free food and utilities, a hundred laurels, a hundred obsidion, and an outfit claim ticket.

Most of all, give new and returning players a 2 week booster that reduces incoming damage 30% when in expansion areas.

p.s.Finding some complimentary quotes is easy. Attracting new players who may be daunted by all the content and the implied investment other players have is hard.

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

"This is a wonderful trailer! It makes me want to hop in and play right now!"-Elementalist_Owner.7802

[nman.3714]

To be blunt I don't care what these people think. Of course your fans love your game. Instead of a quote of someone saying "there is so much to do" give an overview of what to do. I.E.

5 New open world maps larger then any before (sweepover of some of them, showcasing the bueaty of different areas, making sure to show some of the more diverse ones such as the ice area in desert highlands)

New consistent and free maps releases every 2-3 months (overview of LS4E1 map)

New story content (show commander or baltzasar or rytlock or something)

With consistent new story releases (once again go back to LS4E1 something)

New Fractals & Raids (show the new ones)

New Elite Specs (show something new, like mirage or deadeye idk)

Something WVW/PVP (idk those gamemodes enough to say what to put here).

Something like that would be better as with that I would actually know what I'd be getting from the game. From this trailer here the only content shown is open world and story. Which to be blunt I don't care about, would much rather play a single player game with those. By only focusing on those you are ignoring people who would like to play other gamemodes from even considering gw2. I quit GW2 in 2014, and didnt know HoT came out until mid 2016, and didn't know raids were a thing for over a month of playing gw2. Had the current me seen that HoT advertisement, I would have ignored it and played FFXIV or WoW instead not knowing there are raids in GW2. People who enjoy PvP are probably joining and buying games which actually advertise those gamemode.

Likewise with the PoF trailer and announcement video, to be blunt I didnt care. Niether made me want to buy PoF. I had no clue what content it was bringing that I would care about. I enjoy instanced PvE content in this game, and the announcement and trailer mentioned nothing. I actually debated for over a month as to whether or not to buy it, and ended up buying it hoping their would be new raids (despite no statement anywhere saying there would be, and even if it was the raid quality was decrease with each release and the time inbetween releases growing longer). TBH I felt like I made a mistake buying PoF during october and early november as there was no announcement of new content, and no raid content at all since feb, and no good raid content since march 2016 (W4 to easy, amateurish design mistakes in W3). Its no secret that alot of the top raiders never bought PoF (SC/qT members), and until the raid was announced I wished I hadn't. I have nothing against other content in the game, its just that raids are what bring me back day after day. All it would have taken to prevent this is a line in the trailer saying NEW RAIDS/FRACTALS. A single line showing that development of the gamemode I enjoy is still going on. Instead 100% of advertising was openworld/story and new elite specs. This uncertainty is what has caused my to not purchase gems in nearly a yeah (note: the new raid was really, really good. Not perfect but really good. Given that and the dev saying in the ama that they'll try to release raids more regularly I think I'll start purchasing gems again).

Likewise WvW and PvP players are feeling the same way I did. An xpac launched but they got zero content/features excluding new elite specs.

What I would have done is a LWS4 trailer, that features an overview (idk the terms, pan shots of the maps or something) of multiple new maps. A quick shot of one of the raid bosses (text saying new raids). Quick overview of the new fractal (idk what, haven't seen the fractal yet to busy with raid prog). Quick pan shots of whatever is in the works for pvp and wvw (new pvp maps or whatever you have in the works).

A trailer like that would show people who don't play GW2 and overview off all the content GW2 has to offer, not just its story. At the same time, it would reinforce the commitment to players who are currently playing, making them more comfortable to spend gems (I play gw2 for raids [i play through the story releases once, or until I get bored, but wouldn't stay for them] and haven't been spending money on GW2 cause no content, if I knew that content was coming I would have considered spending gems on say something [probably bank tabs]). Lastly it would give active players who haven't yet purchased PoF intensive to do so.

That being said I greatly appreciate the communication by the devs on this post, its something gw2 really lacks. TBH FFXIV devs do a better job at communication despite not speaking English so thanks for trying to fix that. For example in those games elite raiding guilds take time off to race worlds first when a new raid comes out, but in GW2 we aren't given enough time to request time off work. Also it always feels like GW2 devs aren't allowed to speak openly with fans, and that really disappoints me. It might feel minor, but it goes a long way.

Posted this on reddit and youtube video, but made some edits before posting here.

Quick edit now that I think of it, should probably add in mounts to the trailer. Also sorry for rambling on and on.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

Who are these people being quoted and why should I care about their opinions? Were there no reputable organizations or sources who had positive things to say, that you need to rely on the opinions of Mungo Crudberry.2508 and Dimple Oblivious.1017?

It really feels like you're cherry picking fanboys/fangirls to blow smoke up your collective behinds. Find people who aren't completely biased and, as others have said, have some faith in the quality of your work.

[Chickenooble.5014]

Also, if the active playerbase (someone who logged in in the last year perhaps) has an impressive number, maybe a "Join over 1,000,000 active players..." statement would be useful. I have friends that think the game is "loldead"

[Advance Corporal.3648]

Good evening Mister Silbowitz. I'll try to add some points which popped into my mind. (Also I am sorry for my english - I am not a native speaker)First of all I am really happy, that you (the marketing team) ask for feedback. So let's get into it:

• Videos are a great way to create interest! Keep on using them
• Quotes are a good way, but in my opinion you used too many. Just use a few player-quotes. Maybe add since when the players you quote play the game, some veterans and some beginners. Sneak in one quote from a well known magazine. Like an american for the english video, one french for a french video e.g
• Show a bit of the Story - you did focus a bit too much on that. And maybe one sentence like "In PoF you hunt down a crazy god!"
• Show the big features and say what these are. Like "Endgame Raids!" - show good old dhuum; "Mounts who are way more than a speedbuff!"; "Fractals!"; "Epic Open world encounters!" - Show Tequatl, wurm e.g; "New Maps with each new Living World Release!" - Show them! If I would be a new player and watch the video right now, I wouldn't know that fractals =/= Raids =/= open world =/= Story.
• Maybe show some players in fancy armor, fancy weapons, e.g. so that potential new players can say "wow, this armor looks badass"

These are a few short ideas, maybe I'll post some extra stuff later. I need to sleep right now

[Fatemaster.3590]

Lord Joko could be a good selling point coming up in the LS, have a video with him telling his story and rise to power and challenge the viewer that he's unstoppable in this basically North Korean version of Elona.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Dethh.4620 said:While I think the points in my post and feedback from everyone here still stands, I'd really like to see something with a cameo like World of Warcraft did with Chuck Norris, Mr.T, etc. It's proven to do well on TV/online in bringing in new players in a more viral form. It would be really interesting to see something like this for GW2. I can just imagine a Game of Thrones actor doing a cameo.

Can... Can we get Peter Dinklage to play an asura? Or Sean Bean to play a GS warrior? Gwendolyn Christie as a norn guardian?

[Fatemaster.3590]

@Maugetarr.6823 said:

@Dethh.4620 said:While I think the points in my post and feedback from everyone here still stands, I'd really like to see something with a cameo like World of Warcraft did with Chuck Norris, Mr.T, etc. It's proven to do well on TV/online in bringing in new players in a more viral form. It would be really interesting to see something like this for GW2. I can just imagine a Game of Thrones actor doing a cameo.

Can... Can we get Peter Dinklage to play an asura? Or Sean Bean to play a GS warrior? Gwendolyn Christie as a norn guardian?

I vote Peter Dinklage. Have a spot where he wants to play a dwarf but finds out there are no playable dwarfs, then says gnomes, but there are no gnomes. Keep going until someone whispers Asura "Asura? What is an Asura?".