Are we really comfortable paying for unfinished expansions?

[Splat.7981]

2 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

some people get weird regarding WoW. I know people in rl who have a perception WoW is for children 😂😂

I can agree with the sentiment, gw2 doesn't need to copy WoW. But it does need to compete. 

We have systems that can directly compete with WoW systems, we have abandoned projects that could be reiterated and started. 

Anet just doesnt seem to great at competing tbh. 

I don't know if they are great to compete or not, I just think that saying that WoW is trash or that it is for children doesn't help at the time that someone like me, friends etc could have an interest in starting playing GW2...but it is what it is, i guess some people in here prefer it that way and for GW2 to have somewhat a niche community instead of new people coming in, checking the game out and some of them ending up staying eventually improving the income money that the company would have that could help to do more content.

It's all great that people only want a grown up audience here, on the other hand i think it would be interesting to see and explain as to why, since 2018, GW2 has lost to old school Runescape in terms of player numbers.

[Splat.7981]

38 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Why should it directly compete with WoW?  They are different business models with (probably) different goals.  I'm glad that GW2 isn't a WoW clone.

Or, you could convert gold to gems and not pay anything.  That's what I expect a lot of players do.  I know that it works for me.  I've only paid for the original game and expansion content; other than that, I've been converting gold to gems for years and I have all of the cosmetics that I want.  So, yeah, I've "earned" my cosmetics in-game by simply playing.  I've not had to spend any money every so many weeks, unlike in WoW where I'd be forced to pay a subscription for all of the "free" stuff you mention.

Some of us just love to get that cool gear or weapons from looting bosses and such, from raids, dungeons and so, some prefer it that way instead of converting gems to gold to use on a cash shop.

You like it the way it is it doesn't mean that it couldn't be better/improved for others, the fact that you like it as it is now doesn't make GW2 GOTY material.

[Pifil.5193]

I am comfortable paying for it. Sure it's like a front loaded half living world season (two maps at the start one over three releases) but I'm ok paying 25 euro a year for this game.

I'm curious to see what the "big features" of the next expansion are. I personally can't see much left after open world legendary armour.

I have my doubts on how satisfying these plotlines will be if they're all one and done. But we'll see.

[Tanuki.4603]

The same people that keep yapping about WoW sub fee now defend GW2 gemstore because you can "gem to gold". Isn't it ironic. In WoW you can also maintain sub with gold, you can even buy BatlteNet balance with gold and EVERY COSMETIC AS WELL. and its very easy to do so, especially since you can earn respectable amount of gold doing anything while in GW2 u have to torment yourself in a few select meta events that's been out for many years and are overplayed content. Not a good argument whatsoever. Cosmetics in GW2 are SEVERLY overpriced, ESPECIALLY mounts.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Tanuki.4603

[Holmindeboks.3490]

6 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

The same people that keep yapping about WoW sub fee now defend GW2 gemstore because you can "gem to gold". Isn't it ironic. In WoW you can also maintain sub with gold, you can even buy BatlteNet balance with gold and EVERY COSMETIC AS WELL. and its very easy to do so, especially since you can earn respectable amount of gold doing anything while in GW2 u have to torment yourself in a few select meta events that's been out for many years and are overplayed content. Not a good argument whatsoever. Cosmetics in GW2 are SEVERLY overpriced, ESPECIALLY mounts.

Indeed. They mention always gold to gems. But imagine a meta gives max 5 gold (and thats alot of gold from a meta) 2k gems is around 650 gold. Thats 130 metas for let say 45 minutes a meta average. Thats alot of time. This is imo just grinding and not enjoying the game. Maybe raiders and fractal players are the players who actually earn enough gold with playing what they like to play. For 2k gems you get 1 mount skin and a bag slot. For 2k gems you get 5 mounts behind rng. Or 1 select license and 2 bag slots. And your gold is gone. 
that gold to gems is just an excuse to defend the game. While i think most players dont even want to farm 130 meta’s and just buy gems often. I have a guildy she spend 600 euro on gems. And as you said. Ppl say subscriptions for wow is bad while ppl buy gems for maybe 2 or 3 upgrades. 
 

i once defended guildwars 2 and compared bad things and good things. But after years of doing metas without a single reward made me start hating. Felt more as, if i want something i have to spend more. 
 

and the second reason why i started thinking bad was when there is a sale in guildwars 2. I just counted the difference. When there was a sale of 25% the gems from gold where increased by exactly 25%. This made me start hating. (Because of greed) sure they say they cant control the gems vs gold. But makes it even more worse. They Just doesnt care. Because the sale is only for rich players. Or ppl who already had gems. Or for ppl that use their wallet.
so for many players there is no sale. 
 

Gem card sales are only USA if i am not mistaken. We from EU get excluded every time when there is something special. While if anet needs cash its not a problem. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Holmindeboks.3490

[Dopamine.6324]

i would be hating game too, if was doing 5gold per hour 🤣

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Splat.7981 said:

Some of us just love to get that cool gear or weapons from looting bosses and such, from raids, dungeons and so, some prefer it that way instead of converting gems to gold to use on a cash shop.

You like it the way it is it doesn't mean that it couldn't be better/improved for others, the fact that you like it as it is now doesn't make GW2 GOTY material.

That's true.  It just isn't GW2's model.  Changing it may not be what Anet envisions for their game.  Maybe they don't want the playerbase focused on cooperative content like raids, dungeons and so on.  It is a more casual game after all.  Gating cool gear and/or weapons behind that kind of content might be more detrimental to their ideals of what makes GW2.  We already have a thread on gating the new map behind story content and there have been complaints in the past about certain things being gated behind instanced content.  While I won't argue that this might well appeal to some players, my opinion is that Anet doesn't want GW2 to become a game where such content is required to achieve rewards.  They'd much prefer, I believe, for people to pay for gems.

[Knighthonor.4061]

reading over the comments, i am surprised at the many ways people try to justify and defend the lower quality expansion model. Does GW2 Efficiency reflect that SoTo is so successful as people are presenting? 

[Shadow Chaser.1948]

57 minutes ago, Dopamine.6324 said:

i would be hating game too, if was doing 5gold per hour 🤣

Thats funny. I get like 2 gold in 4 hours of play. And, I am perfectly happy with it lol. On subject, Yes, I am still kinda bummed out about relic. At least, release the Leggy Relic. I just can't afford to buy all relics back and forth for different class. I like to test multiple relic for different game mode with different class.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Shadow Chaser.1948

[Cuks.8241]

9 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

reading over the comments, i am surprised at the many ways people try to justify and defend the lower quality expansion model. Does GW2 Efficiency reflect that SoTo is so successful as people are presenting? 

Depends what succesful means. For Anet its mostly about sales. We'll see about that. Or was there already financial report?

For players its probably player retention. You can check steam numbers. Doesnt seem there was much of an increase in player numbers. Those seem pretty stable in general. Allthough those numbers are not close to full population they are a decent sample size.

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, Holmindeboks.3490 said:

Then anet has to change their formula. Just add a subscription to it. Maybe f2p as it is now. And remove horizontal progress and just increase the lvl cap once a few years. By 10 or 20. Not just masterys. A lvl cap is way better for new players then grind 3 or 4 expansions of mastery xp. Maybe bundle living seasons with expansions and dont want to charge everything separate. Everything in the world gets more expensive. So they just let ppl buy gems without being able to create more/new/good content. Till the game dies. Ppl want content then they have to pay a sub. Maybe they can make sub also buyable for gems for rich old veterans. 

I'd honestly Pay, just to see this stated as a April fools Joke to see the uproar.

U cant just throw a Subscription on it now LMFAO, my god it'd kill the game, YOu'd kill the games entire audience in hopes it gets a New one. No, at this point it'd have to be a Proper implemented Battle pass to Enforce a Subscription now, would lose all good will immediately, the reason WoW and FFXIV Can hold a sub is because the games Launched as a Sub based game. putting one in now would only damage the game further.

ALl they need to do is what EVERY OTHER F2P OFFERS.

3 Month Seasonal BattlePass, which earn Rewards for DOing Ingame content.

£20 for a Base Battlepass, £30 to get  abattle pass + A weapon SKin to match the End of BP COsmetic outfit reward £50 for Battlepass + Weapon + 12 Level skip.

 

[Doam.8305]

Soto is said to be a smaller expansion for a lower price. The big bad is a character named Eparch. Launch story plus a much smaller story update and two more coming. We are on the final map with two more extensions.

I say this because I smell a cliff hanger there is no way with what little story we just got that the story wraps up in two more patches. This smaller more manageable expansion feels like they just chopped an expansion in two. Imagine if PoF ended in the 3rd map  Riverlands without a conclusive fight with Balthazar. Well we are in the third map of Soto and everyone is still talking about Eparch with no action.

People are complaining about an unfinished expansion and of course white knights defend. Im alright with smaller expansion but only with a complete smaller expansion and thus far this doesnt feel like a complete mini expansion but rather a regular one chopped up and sold one part at a time.

I already have an idea how this ends too as the story mentions the Amny meta boss is deeper down in the map. 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Doam.8305

[Dopamine.6324]

54 minutes ago, Shadow Chaser.1948 said:

Thats funny. I get like 2 gold in 4 hours of play. And, I am perfectly happy with it lol. On subject, Yes, I am still kinda bummed out about relic. At least, release the Leggy Relic. I just can't afford to buy all relics back and forth for different class. I like to test multiple relic for different game mode with different class.

meant it as this other guy torturing himself trying to make gold for gem exchange and somehow making so little when there is like 20 different meta/farm maps that provides 4x what he gets

 

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

In WoW - farm 400 mounts while having fuin doing variety of content enjoyable with friends.

In GW2 = 20 mount skins = 400 euro in the cash shop

Because WoW is a sub based game while gw2 is a f2p game. Lol. That's just life. How do u expect gw2 to generate any income if it worked differently. 

Also allow me to be clear. 

No one seems to be having fun farming mounts, its a severe point of contension with the low drop rates. 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

reading over the comments, i am surprised at the many ways people try to justify and defend the lower quality expansion model. Does GW2 Efficiency reflect that SoTo is so successful as people are presenting

With all due respect. Gw2 efficency doesn't reflect any gw2 expansion was successful. Lol.

Thr game is small, it's population is smaller, its income is smaller, and the company has almost bankrupted twice. Soto is more alive then PoF that's for sure lol. Considering the game was quite litterally on the brink of shur down. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Loboling.5293]

I am likely done buying GW2 dlc. EoD was awful to the point I only recently finished it and now I'm lagging on starting the soto expansion, knowing it's incomplete and the main features I was excited for, new weapons, weapon mastery and new story is either incomplete or implemented in a way that doesn't allow me to fully enjoy it.

 

I wish new weapons were available at low level for making a new character for this expansion. If I could've leveled new characters with weapons I've never used before, I'd have probably pushed forward and gone through this expansion. But my hype is non-existent. I feel zero problem with waiting until the story is released to finally play through it.

 

Tldr

Basically,  EoD was damaging enough to my GW2 experience, that I'm not as invested anymore. And Soto feels like it lacks features to get me excited to play it. Using elite weapons with other specs would've only been enticing if I could make a new character and use them. (Ala mastery) I'm going to just wait until I'm ready to play to buy the next expansion, if at all.

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Loboling.5293 said:

Basically,  EoD was damaging enough to my GW2 experience

Ironic, EoD was iirc considered the games most successful expansion by numbers 😂 but hey each to their own. 

I'd say honestly PoF was far worse tho. 

Don't remember the last time I've needed to level a char so I csnt really relate tbere, but fair enough pointless buying stuff if you don't enjoy it. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Depends what succesful means. For Anet its mostly about sales. We'll see about that. Or was there already financial report

Well it's simple really. 

Is SoTo worth £20. It aint about if it has enough content to last its run, nor about anything really. 

Success is if its deemed worth its price, does GW2 hold equal, or more entertainment then a 20 pack of beer for a night out does. If the answer is Yes. Then for the budget set for SoTo it was successful. 

You cant say "well It won't keep me entertained for a year" or "it's too small for a expansion". Bexause ur only going to get your monies worth out of products. 

SoTo is worth £20 in my eyes it's held more then 3 days entertainment and tbh I can't rly expect £20 to stretch further if it ends soon lol. 

WoW charges you £10 per month so every month kinda has to hold entertainment for you. Because ur continously paying. 

Gw2 only charges you once. So its basically no different to buying a budget game off steam and getting 42 hours fun out of it before completion. 

Soto was worth £20..

Edited November 11, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Holmindeboks.3490]

5 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Ironic, EoD was iirc considered the games most successful expansion by numbers 😂 but hey each to their own. 

I'd say honestly PoF was far worse tho. 

Don't remember the last time I've needed to level a char so I csnt really relate tbere, but fair enough pointless buying stuff if you don't enjoy it. 

EoD made me also hating on the game. An annoying turtle in arborstone who goes only away if collect the collection. And soo-won meta. Everytime a fail while others have finished it. And when i finally had a good map the map disconnects and party splitted. 

[Loboling.5293]

6 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Ironic, EoD was iirc considered the games most successful expansion by numbers 😂 but hey each to their own. 

I'd say honestly PoF was far worse tho. 

Don't remember the last time I've needed to level a char so I csnt really relate tbere, but fair enough pointless buying stuff if you don't enjoy it. 

For me HoT was an amazing expansion that had the only issues being short story and ruining PvP for 6 months. PoF was kind of weak, but Joko and Canach were hilarious and made me enjoy the story. 

 

It's really during IBS that things fell over for me, the focus on strikes, over open world was a big mistake. And EoD was just boring story. I'm not sure if their retention and player activity metrics would say EoD was best, but if so, maybe this game is just steering away from the type of content I enjoy. I'm fairly certain I would enjoy Soto if I played it, but there aren't any features I'm excited to get that are available right now. Looking forward to seeing what they do with the new weapons I paid for...

[JTGuevara.9018]

I'm not. Never was.

WAY too many people in society are conditioned with accepting less than they should, while that 'less' keeps becoming more and more less overtime. In terms of the game industry, corporations just keep pushing the boundaries slowly to see what they can get away with. Battle passes, dlc, micro-transactions, cosmetics, (hurl) nfts. SOtO's skimping of content and obvious time-gating is just another example.

One of the gw series' greatest mysteries: the wizard's tower has, after all these years, finally revealed itself. In such a monumental and important reveal, we find that the wizard's tower is - - -

Nothing more than a wizard's shop full of knick-knacks... (the wizard's vault)

It's something completely unsurprising to me, considering the dominance of corporate entities. A shrine to unfettered capitalism. 'Look at all the shiny things you can buy! Ya just gotta work(grind needlessly) REAL hard to get them!!'

Edit: And would you LOOK at the confused emojis at my statement lmao! YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT.

Edited November 11, 2023 by JTGuevara.9018
add

[Taclism.2406]

4 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

The same people that keep yapping about WoW sub fee now defend GW2 gemstore because you can "gem to gold"

the irony of that being "micro"transactions make now significantly more revenue for every studio, especially in MMOs where it outranks game sales and even monthly sub fees. But to be fair to Anet, Blizz also gets a lot more done because of the sheer quantity of overtime / passion squeezed out the devs despite a below industry standard pay, whereas anet seems a lot more respectful of decent working conditions. 

As far as features go tho, I doubt its a funds issue, but a focus issue. For the last year, Anet listed a few jobs position every now and then for their new unannounced title, but few if any for gw2. Feels hard to believe gw2 isn't near maintenance mode nor currently running with a skeleton crew, but it'd feel even worse if they said their entire studio did work on it and it was the best they could do

[enigmatic.3576]

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Ironic, EoD was iirc considered the games most successful expansion by numbers 😂 but hey each to their own. 

What source, or even numbers, are you using?

Amount those on these forums, they found it to be the worst of the three.  HoT is almost always praised for the fun meta events.

I'm not sure if they have ever released pre-order units sold or units sold within X amount of time metrics. So any numbers would be speculative.

Metacritic gives HoT, PoF, and EoD similar review ratings.

So again, what are these numbers that you speak of?

[Magesw.4257]

On 11/9/2023 at 12:16 PM, Tanuki.4603 said:

People have sour taste after this patch beacuse the story is less than old living world, we don't even get full map like old living world and strike got barely any work done besides a copypaste mechanic from a previous strike, and is extremely easy even for pug groups.  We've paid for an unfinished expansion without any feature and it only shows now how empty this patch will be, since we cannot even work further to progress our legendary armor like with the last patch, and the wait for the next update is twice as it was for this. Let's not forget the last fractal realease bugged for months with kittened up scaling as it was a scrapped strike.

Now, wow released their 10.2 patch yesterday, skim thru this page linked below to see how much content they add:

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-patch-10-2-guardians-of-the-dream-overview

Its an absurd amount compared to GW2, one patch is way more content than entire soto with 4 updates, they get tons of cosmetics available ingame, tons of customization, meaningful storylines. the story is 10 hours of gameplay + raid and side quests twice the amount of that.

 

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

What people are? The impatient, I want everything now, got a participation trophy for doing nothing people? You want to reference another MMO that has more than its fair share of bad ideas, designs and roll outs? Not to mention their xpacs are double+ the price of GW2's and there is a sub and a cash shop...

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

WAY too many people in society are conditioned with accepting less than they should

I see it as some value £20 to be more then it really is. Wont even buy you a pizza to enjoy for less then 20 minutes. 

And thats the real problem. It isn't people in society are conditioned to accept less then what they should. 

Its gamers are conditioned to beleive that company budgets don't exist and that the bare minimum spent should yield results 400x above any other form of entertainment in the same price bracket. 

You spent £20 on a expansion. In 2023. You'd get less then 3 hours in any other form of entertainment 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Puck.3697