projectile denial is out of control

[Eddie.9143]

classes can keep up reflects, invuln, mag aura, blocks, projectile denial fields, etc for almost their entire rotation until they're back up again..

 

it's getting ridic. 

[Vinny.7260]

There's definitely starting to be a noticeable amount of projectile hate.

I think it's starting to be a bit much depending on the source.

Compare the abilities of some of them as well:

• Enveloping Haze on Untamed
  • Deals damage to enemies inside, moves, and can inflict chill on enemies CC'd.
  • Lasts 5 seconds
  • 25 second recharge
• Swirling Winds on Elementalist
  • Doesn't move, doesn't deal damage, doesn't have any sort of bonus effects.
  • Lasts 4 seconds
  • 30, 24 if using Aeromancer's Training, second recharge

 

It's definitely important to keep it around, however. Invulnerability isn't entirely an issue right now. In fact, they're creating a complication for Virtuoso, a troublemaker for Distortion and Distortion-related topics, have to pick between cleanse/healing on Shatter and Blurred Inscriptions next patch.

Another outlier is Shield Master on Warrior and an interaction with Aegis, which causes a single-block boon to become an outright projectile reflecting menace. Arguably it shouldn't do this, but it does!

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

1 minute ago, Vinny.7260 said:

It's definitely important to keep it around, however. Invulnerability isn't entirely an issue right now. In fact, they're creating a complication for Virtuoso, a troublemaker for Distortion and Distortion-related topics, have to pick between cleanse/healing on Shatter and Blurred Inscriptions next patch.

Another outlier is Shield Master on Warrior and an interaction with Aegis, which causes a single-block boon to become an outright projectile reflecting menace. Arguably it shouldn't do this, but it does!

Yea I'd say these are the only two causing issues atm. Blurred inscriptions + master fragmentation feels awful to fight when you're a projectile based spec. 

[Shagie.7612]

Has been since EoD.

You don't get to hit Virt or BSW ever.
Zerk and Cata to a lesser extent, for a long time Cata was nuts and absolutely untouchable.

Untamed bubble tips a lot of trades heavily in their favor.

A single Tempest removes that weapon from the match, almost the entire game.

I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the stronger ranged builds and weapons currently don't have to deal with projectiles nearly as much if at all.
teef scepter, engi nades, mes greatsword, ele scepter, war LB (scorched earth, mostly), necro axe, ranger staff.

[Arheundel.6451]

What ridiculous are some ranged specs which luckily have been mostly taken out of the picture by the presence of strong projectile denial:

1. Nade Engi - kitten gameplay and asinine design...running ahead with superspeed while throwing grenades behind you
2. Shortbow renegade - kitten gameplay, press 5-2 off CD while having access to pulsing stability utility which reduces also power dmg...BS design
3. Oneshot deadeye...no introduction needed
4. 11111111...spamming necros with that kittening pistol or harbinger 111 spam...another example of monkey like gameplay

The above-mentioned are the reasons behind projectile denial....any further nerf to projectile denial MUST BE WITH NO EXCEPTION be accompanied by removal/nerfs for the builds above...

Now go...all "players" running any of those builds can add their little sad/confuse emote, the more the better, it would clearly show and explain why this thread exists in the first place..so by all means, go crazy with the emojis

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Problem is that a lot of proj focused builds can infinitely kite, stealth, and still have unblockables. Its a lot harder to deal with that than it is to know how to stow weapon and not shoot yourself in the face.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[Gotejjeken.1267]

If it's not crying about ranger LB it's about single ranger hate bubble...when that's not even the strongest projectile denial we have.  

Can't win either way, just want ranger nerfed.

Gotta love it.  

[Vinny.7260]

4 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

If it's not crying about ranger LB it's about single ranger hate bubble...when that's not even the strongest projectile denial we have.  

Can't win either way, just want ranger nerfed.

Gotta love it.  

I will say I don't want the bubble nerfed, I was more inferring maybe buffing Ele's Swirling Winds.

In my opinion, even, skills shouldn't be super linear.

[SleepyBat.9034]

19 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Now go...all "players" running any of those builds can add their little sad/confuse emote, the more the better, it would clearly show and explain why this thread exists in the first place..so by all means, go crazy with the emojis

You're so bitter lmao.

There's clearly a difference between strong projectile defense and insane projectile defense. Shield Master Bladesworns fall clearly into the latter category and anyone who argues otherwise is insanely biased.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Reflection is an awareness problem. If you don't know how to stop attacking and stow your weapon in the proper moments of r combat then You're just lacking in skill. There are more classes that have reflect now, so awareness is more important then ever.

[Arheundel.6451]

20 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

You're so bitter lmao.

There's clearly a difference between strong projectile defense and insane projectile defense. Shield Master Bladesworns fall clearly into the latter category and anyone who argues otherwise is insanely biased.

The more people abuse those builds I have mentioned..the easier it becomes for them to shoot themselves in the face, you can see where I am going.....

[aymnad.9023]

2 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

I will say I don't want the bubble nerfed, I was more inferring maybe buffing Ele's Swirling Winds.

In my opinion, even, skills shouldn't be super linear.

This skill is strong enough. You can drop it and then keep fighting + support at the same time. The static aoe on yourself also has benefits (protects from all direction, no tracking issue / random movement). Why would it need a buff when the same weapon can also deal with projectile with reflect and invuln? On a profession that is notorious for its ability to counter projectile?

Edited November 13, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Vinny.7260]

9 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

When the same weapon can also deal with projectile with reflect and invuln? On a profession that is notorious for its ability to counter projectile? This skill is already strong as it is imo.

Oh, my example wasn't truly exclusive to Swirling Winds, merely an example. The whole points per skill kinda thing they talked about.

Just wanting more refreshes and flexibility with skills. 😛

[aymnad.9023]

12 minutes ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Oh, my example wasn't truly exclusive to Swirling Winds, merely an example. The whole points per skill kinda thing they talked about.

Just wanting more refreshes and flexibility with skills. 😛

I had edited my message before you answered to add some advantages it has (imo). Covering an area reliably on ranger will not be as easy.

What do you mean by refreshes? If you are thinking about the cd on different skills this can be tricky.

Edited November 13, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Vinny.7260]

1 minute ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I had edited my message before you answered to add some advantages that it has. Covering an area reliably on ranger will not be as easy.

What do you mean by refreshes? If you are thinking about the cd on different skills this can be tricky.

Oh, just to give things a lil more spark.

 

Like entering Swirling Winds removes Cripple/Chilled, only once though. Not CDs cuz 30/24s is plenty for a skill like that.

Not particularly anything outstanding, I just like options for skills to do more in general. Ele might be not as good of an example since the attunements are intended to be more uniform/specialized.

[Loboling.5293]

I think we need more projectile reflection in the game, but it should continue to bounce endlessly. The person who's shield breaks first gets the cumulative damage of all those bouncing ranged attacks. 😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 minutes ago, Loboling.5293 said:

I think we need more projectile reflection in the game, but it should continue to bounce endlessly. The person who's shield breaks first gets the cumulative damage of all those bouncing ranged attacks. 😂

hot. 

Alternatively, if a skill bounces X times it becomes unblockable.

[Myror.7521]

@Vinny.7260 to be total fair. Yes Aegis in Comb with shield master traitline is sort of stupid. Buuuut you wana know whats also stupid? Playing as a melee focused class not be allowed to deal dmg on CCs against classes with hard melee and ranged dmg plus stealths Ports and stunbrakes. I for real wish we would be allowed to Deal at least some dmg on CCs again as Warrior cause thats how our Power Main dmg is coming from (CC plus using high telegraphed burst skills in Comb while both where doing dmg to make sure the enemy ranged played get punish for its mistake and not .....  get away with 0 pressure by simply using a stunbrakes). Thats also the reason why we playing CC Spam Builds cause there is no real other Option ......

[deathdealer.2197]

52 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Vinny.7260 to be total fair. Yes Aegis in Comb with shield master traitline is sort of stupid. Buuuut you wana know whats also stupid? Playing as a melee focused class not be allowed to deal dmg on CCs against classes with hard melee and ranged dmg plus stealths Ports and stunbrakes. I for real wish we would be allowed to Deal at least some dmg on CCs again as Warrior cause thats how our Power Main dmg is coming from (CC plus using high telegraphed burst skills in Comb while both where doing dmg to make sure the enemy ranged played get punish for its mistake and not .....  get away with 0 pressure by simply using a stunbrakes). Thats also the reason why we playing CC Spam Builds cause there is no real other Option ......

And buff GS

[Myror.7521]

@deathdealer.2197 nah no GS is allready good enough just buff other weapons.

1: For example Axe  Burst. It used to in 3.0 scaling and got nerfed to 2.0. Just let it at least be around 2.3 or something like it^^. (Core and primal btw).

2. Core Mace Burst is Omega useless cause its 130 range with more than enough Animation. Let it be like its primal Version and Nerf its CC to 1,5 Seconds.

3. Let us move while using core rifle burst.

4. Remove Adrenaline Push at Sword 5 and Mace 2 ..... let us instead be able to use its dmging Skill instead If we want to and not autoproc when blocking an Attack

5. Let Shield 4 Deal dmg OR shield 5 healing us while blocking for X amount per second while using the Skill.

6. Maybe you also wana fix the bug that Sword 4 does use the dmg scaling from PvE in competitive^^

Juuust stuff like this would make power Warrior acutually more enjoyable than bsw ever will be in my opinion ^^

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Myror.7521

[JormagSorbet.8079]

8 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Vinny.7260 to be total fair. Yes Aegis in Comb with shield master traitline is sort of stupid. Buuuut you wana know whats also stupid? Playing as a melee focused class not be allowed to deal dmg on CCs against classes with hard melee and ranged dmg plus stealths Ports and stunbrakes. 

Correct. 

From a projectile player's point of view, I can definitely see how firing some projectiles, only to have all of them whiff or come hurtling back at you because a warrior decided they wanted an aegis or block at that moment is frustrating. 

But if we are going to consider that frustrating, we should also consider how frustrating it is for a warrior player to build up their adrenaline, line up burst, then have it glance or miss because their opponent decided at that moment they wanted blind or weakness. 

If you want the former to be less frustrating, it should come paired with less frustration in the latter. Either this mitigation trading game can be played until one person makes a mistake, or the game can be "this melee class crumples easily at range, but if they get anywhere near you -you- crumple." Pick whichever one you like. 

Or dont. I'm pretty sure the interaction with aegis is a bug, which is doubly sad, because it means one of the only reasons warrior is a threat at all is because of developer oversight. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by JormagSorbet.8079

[aymnad.9023]

18 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Oh, just to give things a lil more spark.

 

Like entering Swirling Winds removes Cripple/Chilled, only once though. Not CDs cuz 30/24s is plenty for a skill like that.

Not particularly anything outstanding, I just like options for skills to do more in general. Ele might be not as good of an example since the attunements are intended to be more uniform/specialized.

It would be a small buff but I do not find it necessary. I find the current version strong enough and I would be concerned if we start adding new effects to multiple skills in the game.

[Flowki.7194]

I think we should remove reflects, its annoying that I can't force fire from 1700 units on ranger. It means I have to get to 1500 and use berrage. I think they should also disable melee classes W key, becuase I hate having to use multiple CC and evade/track damage when they get too close. I just want to sit at 1700 and pew, pew.. pew pew pew.