stealth vulnerability

[Balsa.3951]

add vunability debuff when use stealth.

that's a nice risk vs reward mechanic

and would make stealth more tactical to use

Edited November 17, 2023 by Balsa.3951

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Balsa.3951 said:

add vunability debuff when use stealth.

that's a nice risk vs reward mechanic

and would make stealth more tactical to use

Nah, rather a relic so that you can make counter builds. I mean once I was in a tourney team with 4 thiefs and 1 rev and we got 1st place.

So solution:

the new relic system could introduce something like: mobile flare stealth reveal around the caster 360 radius which could stay for 5 seconds + applying short reveal who enters on 30 second cd. Gets activated by elite skill or cds above 20 second cd.

 

Could be just another utility tool relic for example 

[Sahne.6950]

How to delete thief 1o1. 

i know stealth is toxic.. dont get me wrong xD  

but if there is like a +30% damage debuff on stealthed enemys, a thief will just explode if someone doesnt lack objective permanence and just atks where the thief just vanished.

There needs to be a better way to do it kind of.

 

A relic isnt too bad of a idea.    Just need to implement it smart and make it accessible.    hiding it behind the useage of a elite is doodoo for example.

but then again.... i really need to drop a 10% dmg relic just to be able to have counterplay!?   meh...     i really have no clue whats a good solution here.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[arazoth.7290]

15 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

How to delete thief 1o1. 

i know stealth is toxic.. dont get me wrong xD  

but if there is like a +30% damage debuff on stealthed enemys, a thief will just explode if someone doesnt lack objective permanence and just atks where the thief just vanished.

There needs to be a better way to do it kind of.

 

A relic isnt too bad of a idea.    Just need to implement it smart and make it accessible.    hiding it behind the useage of a elite is doodoo for example.

but then again.... i really need to drop a 10% dmg relic just to be able to have counterplay!?   meh...     i really have no clue whats a good solution here.

Well the relic against stealth can be used to get more damage out in certain situations they otherwise could avoid. Because lf that it is above the 10% damage buff, it's situational depending on team combs you might face.

For example mass stealth ele invurnable cd and rushing on start lf match against openents stealthed with reveal.  Just 1 of the many examples of useage I could list.

 

And I suggested on elite useage always, but also triggering from any cd that is above 20 seconds to make it more general.

I suggested it on a higher cd duration ability because otherwise most weapon attacks would trigger it in rotation useless and less on demand.

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Well the relic against stealth can be used to get more damage out in certain situations they otherwise could avoid. Because lf that it is above the 10% damage buff, it's situational depending on team combs you might face.

For example mass stealth ele invurnable cd and rushing on start lf match against openents stealthed with reveal.  Just 1 of the many examples of useage I could list.

 

And I suggested on elite useage always, but also triggering from any cd that is above 20 seconds to make it more general.

I suggested it on a higher cd duration ability because otherwise most weapon attacks would trigger it in rotation useless and less on demand.

 

In other word, force the players to equip a relic to counter Toxic Bad Design instead of Anet, removing/reworking Toxic Bad Deisgn Stealth Mechanic equally for all players, no matter what relic they chose to equip?

I rather Toxic Bad Design to be completely removed and to be reworked and to be exclusively specailized only to Thief Profession

Edited November 17, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

In other word, force the players to equip a relic to counter Toxic Bad Design instead of Anet, removing/reworking Toxic Bad Deisgn Stealth Mechanic equally for all players, no matter what relic they chose to equip?

I rather Toxic Bad Design to be completely removed and to be reworked exclusively to Thief Profession

I personally wouldn't use it for my builds, since they don't bother, would be overkill for them but making weaker vs others.

But I can see use of it depending on team combs who heavy rely on stealth by weird matchmaking for example. It would be used more situationally since most of the times it isn't needed and you can better use other stuff. 

[Burnfall.9573]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

I personally wouldn't use it for my builds, since they don't bother, would be overkill for them but making weaker vs others.

But I can see use of it depending on team combs who heavy rely on stealth by weird matchmaking for example. It would be used more situationally since most of the times it isn't needed and you can better use other stuff. 

 

I Respect your reasoning

[Flowki.7194]

I only wish they would make it so thieves can't escape as much after a failed jump. Its too low risk.

[Ferus.3165]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:58 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

I only wish they would make it so thieves can't escape as much after a failed jump. Its too low risk.

yeah stealth alone is bad enough but the insane mobility on top of that is just the cherry on top.

[arazoth.7290]

thief needs aegis and invurnable 

[Flowki.7194]

41 minutes ago, Ferus.3165 said:

yeah stealth alone is bad enough but the insane mobility on top of that is just the cherry on top.

Yes, same with scrapper, fails to kill you from stealth >> runs away until stealth is back on cd, or waits for a +1. Its kitten, and its not skill. Any spec with the ability to drop you from a jump like that should simply die if it fails. I can CC these specs twice and they still get away.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[remorseless.6352]

Everytime player block/use protection after used take 30% more damage for tactical use

[Sweetbread.3678]

Pretty much anything in this game with a duration lasts about twice as long as it should in pvp, stealth is no exception. Kitten like stealth, ground fields, tethers, stability, invulns/blocks, etc. should be skill shots as much as anything else, but 90% of the time their only real skill-check is timing and that's pretty much non-existent when they all last an absolute eternity in pvp time.

[Seventh Ranger.3968]

The real solution is just to add more sources of Reveal to the game. Add it to more skills and traits, especially single target or small aoe non-weapon skills and traits. In my opinion, Stealth itself isn't the problem, it's the lack of adequate options to counter it. Each class should have access to a couple reveal skills/traits, so that they can counter stealth-focused builds. That would also allow for more stealth to be added to the game on classes that fit with it thematically, or open up opportunities to explore adding stealth focused elite specs on classes that previously weren't really stealth oriented. I like stealth as a mechanic, and think it's interesting and fun, but in GW2 it needs more counterplay so that it doesn't feel as frustrating/annoying to deal with.

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:34 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

How to delete thief 1o1. 

i know stealth is toxic.. dont get me wrong xD  

but if there is like a +30% damage debuff on stealthed enemys, a thief will just explode if someone doesnt lack objective permanence and just atks where the thief just vanished.

There needs to be a better way to do it kind of.

 

A relic isnt too bad of a idea.    Just need to implement it smart and make it accessible.    hiding it behind the useage of a elite is doodoo for example.

but then again.... i really need to drop a 10% dmg relic just to be able to have counterplay!?   meh...     i really have no clue whats a good solution here.

A better design from the ground up would be the way, but it'll never happen.  Basically, the ability to disengage at will is the problem.  And it isn't just stealth.  This game is way too free with mobility as well.  You have too many classes that can just walk away risk-free whenever they make mistakes with very few ways for opponents to effectively counter or punish it.

[Puck.3697]

Have to admit. I've never seen a mmorpg player hate stealth as much as gw2s and the funny part is gw2 prolly has one of the weakest forms of invis 

Hello WoW with 5 different insta stealths with limitless duration avaliable to the rogue class which van be used inside combat. 

Even tho Rogue is just as much of a powerhouse when it comes to 1v1 dueling lol I've never seen it so hated lol. 

Thief does have a disadvantage for its advantages it sucks at large scale pvp / team fights. 

A thief can stealth and run as many times as he wants, but he hands me the node doing so. And if he sits there duelling me he's bad lol, ironically in spvp thief sucks at. 1v1. 

Thief does have weaknesses. The gameplay it fulfills has always had advantages in 1v1s its off-balance by how bad it is in large scale pvp. Just like u jave plenty of classes that are stronger in large scale pvp but worse in 1v1s. 

I dont understand how it can be so demanded nerfs, for what is completely irrelevent to the actual objectives that's going to make it even less playable at the objectives its already bad at. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Puck.3697

[geist.4126]

Because in WoW stealth is way more balanced. You can AoE a rogue out of stealth and a rogue won't ever escape as easily as in GW2. You can even put a hunters mark on him. Rogue, even in the Classic version, is far more balanced than Thief in any of the 11 years of GW2.

Edited November 22, 2023 by geist.4126

[Burnfall.9573]

3 hours ago, geist.4126 said:

Because in WoW stealth is way more balanced. You can AoE a rogue out of stealth and a rogue won't ever escape as easily as in GW2. You can even put a hunters mark on him. Rogue, even in the Classic version, is far more balanced than Thief in any of the 11 years of GW2.

 

this

Guild Wars 2 Stealth Mechanic is the most Toxic Bad Design Stealth Mechanic in Competitve Gaming Genre History

The worse part of it; Absolutely, No Game Companies are Inspired it Nor is Impressed by it, to Include it in their game

Why would they Impliment,Tolerate or Allow Guild Wars 2 Toxic Stealth Mechanic to violate their Culture of Healthy Competition in their games?

Even Game Companies with upcomong MMO's Games, are not Impressed with Guid Wars 2 Toxic Stealth Mechanic 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Curennos.9307]

Just prevent stealth stacking - anyone who struggles to deal with counting to three and then doing something is a skill issue, IMO, and the problem only comes up when stealth is allowed to stack because it lets the thief vanish and then you haven't the foggiest how long they'll be in there. Could be 3 sec, 5, 6, 10, etc. 3 sec is enough time to reposition/attack, anything more at once is too much. If someone wants to wait 3 sec and try to time their restealth to right after the initial stack expires, cool- at least they'll appear once and there will be something for the other player to try and deal with.

And, of course, unhitch thieves from being slaves to Trickery and provide options out of stealth. Likely trim the ini cost of d/p#5 too.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Curennos.9307

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

25 minutes ago, Curennos.9307 said:

Just prevent stealth stacking - anyone who struggles to deal with counting to three and then doing something is a skill issue, IMO, and the problem only comes up when stealth is allowed to stack because it lets the thief vanish and then you haven't the foggiest how long they'll be in there. Could be 3 sec, 5, 6, 10, etc. 3 sec is enough time to reposition/attack, anything more at once is too much. If someone wants to wait 3 sec and try to time their restealth to right after the initial stack expires, cool- at least they'll appear once and there will be something for the other player to try and deal with.

And, of course, unhitch thieves from being slaves to Trickery and provide options out of stealth. Likely trim the ini cost of d/p#5 too.

Also fine if that bold part is included. I don't mind blinking in and out of stealth if I get something out it that isnt being a farmable bag disguised as fairness. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Curennos.9307]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Also fine if that bold part is included. I don't mind blinking in and out of stealth if I get something out it that isnt being a farmable bag disguised as fairness. 

Actually going into stealth should just immediately kill the thief and deposit 1g into the wallet of everyone nearby taken from the thief's own gold.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, Curennos.9307 said:

Actually going into stealth should just immediately kill the thief and deposit 1g into the wallet of everyone nearby taken from the thief's own gold.

kitten guy's speaking straight facts 

Thieves are the bad guys and they should pay us for the privilege for entertaining their RP for .0001 seconds

 

[Shagie.7612]

34 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Thieves are the bad guys

correct

if you banned everyone who's ever played a pvp match as teef pvp would be a better place

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, geist.4126 said:

Because in WoW stealth is way more balanced. You can AoE a rogue out of stealth and a rogue won't ever escape as easily as in GW2. You can even put a hunters mark on him. Rogue, even in the Classic version, is far more balanced than Thief in any of the 11 years of GW2.

Um wut?. 

Rogues insta combat invis has a secondary buff that lasts like 10 seconds, which prevents damage taken breaking stealth?!. What are you on about lol. 

And due to limitless access. The rogue can follow you round for ages lol. It can sit there and decide when to hit you. Something thief can't do. 

To add to this, a rogue can sunblock you from stealth for over 10 consecutive seconds while outputting burst damage. 

Rogue has been the king of dueling, and has been meta in arena for 2 decades for a reason lol. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

50 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Um wut?. 

Rogues insta combat invis has a secondary buff that lasts like 10 seconds, which prevents damage taken breaking stealth?!. What are you on about lol. 

And due to limitless access. The rogue can follow you round for ages lol. It can sit there and decide when to hit you. Something thief can't do. 

To add to this, a rogue can sunblock you from stealth for over 10 consecutive seconds while outputting burst damage. 

Rogue has been the king of dueling, and has been meta in arena for 2 decades for a reason lol. 

I just discard "It's not like WoW" opinions the moment I see them, because it's easy to prove that the complaints against the archetype are just as aggressive in that game.

This salt against thief archetype isnt new. This isn't some balancing issue that WoW got right and Gw2 didnt. Some people just hate interacting with jumpscares and blame the balance for it.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261