Wizard's Vault offers fewer clovers per month this season than last season or the old daily login system

[LameMule.4137]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Wizard's Vault far more than the tired old system. But Anet, I also loved my monthly clovers. 7 may not be all that much but it was a really nice little bonus at the end of each month that guaranteed a slow but steady income over time outside of Mystic Forge gambling sessions where RNG is king.

Last season was around two and a half months and we got 20 clovers. That was a little more than the usual 7 clovers per month. This season however we get the same 20 clovers but stretched out over one week shy of four full months. That's a full month's worth of clovers we lose out on from the old system.

Again, don't get me wrong, this is neither a whine nor a complaint, just pointing out something I thought an interesting change. It would be really nice going forward to have the clovers match the length of time for the season in order to receive the same ~7 clovers per month per season. That's all. I just like my free clovers. Small as it is, it was my favorite part of the monthly chart. Yes I can buy them, but the assured monthly clovers were a very nice supplement to the gambling hall, especially with the current prices of coins.

Anyway, have fun out there.

Edited November 20, 2023 by LameMule.4137
spleling

[evilcat.6817]

It is fair request for wizard vault reward limit was scalable with lenght of the season. 3months season could be 20 clovers, but 4 months deserve 27. Ideally AN could set numbers for 1 month, and then just multiply it. Same goes with other rewards like laurens, or obsidian shards.

There could also be a consideration if we really need a limit for each good. If we have no limit on transmutacion tokens, will that make fashion wars 2 OP?

[WRay.2391]

IMO the whole idea of WV was to make rewards flexible to be able to affect economy. I would not take any number of rewards for granted or guaranteed from now on.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

It's a fair point. OTOH, Anet might think that with the Legendary Starter Kit now people need slightly less Clovers than before? Who knows, as WRay said I think the Wizard's Vault gives Anet quite a lot of potential to balance the economy however they see fit over the coming years.

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

It's a fair point. OTOH, Anet might think that with the Legendary Starter Kit now people need slightly less Clovers than before?

Why would they think that? It's not like the Kit decreases the need for Clovers in any way.

[Trejgon.9367]

10 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

It's a fair point. OTOH, Anet might think that with the Legendary Starter Kit now people need slightly less Clovers than before?

The kit does not contain any item requiring clovers for that to be possibility - for each kit you still need full 77 clovers to finish the legendary.

If kits were affecting need or demand for clovers, they would only increase the demand, because people stuck at other steps now get to actually get to the point where they need dem clovers for their legendary.

[kouplefruit.9631]

Definitely agree and this bothered me as well. Right from the I was like ??? In regards to clover cap. I do think, if the seasons are varied lengths, it's fair to decide the amount of rewards there is on a per week basis, and then multiply it out by the number of weeks for the full season. And this isn't just for clovers.

By the end of last season, I was skipping the dailies and the weeklies because none of the remaining rewards felt worth it, and the T5 and overpriced bags of coins felt like a waste of acclaim. 

I love this new system, but nearing the end of the season drove down my engagement. And so far this season, knowing it's longer with the same/less rewards, I haven't engaged as much because I know nothing is really gained from doing every week's objectives. Raising the cap on some of these items would be fantastic.

[Linken.6345]

30 minutes ago, kouplefruit.9631 said:

Definitely agree and this bothered me as well. Right from the I was like ??? In regards to clover cap. I do think, if the seasons are varied lengths, it's fair to decide the amount of rewards there is on a per week basis, and then multiply it out by the number of weeks for the full season. And this isn't just for clovers.

By the end of last season, I was skipping the dailies and the weeklies because none of the remaining rewards felt worth it, and the T5 and overpriced bags of coins felt like a waste of acclaim. 

I love this new system, but nearing the end of the season drove down my engagement. And so far this season, knowing it's longer with the same/less rewards, I haven't engaged as much because I know nothing is really gained from doing every week's objectives. Raising the cap on some of these items would be fantastic.

How is it a waste of aclaim when you can get new aclaim so easy?

[Cronospere.8143]

11 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Why would they think that? It's not like the Kit decreases the need for Clovers in any way.

Yeah. There are a lot of uses for them. Cant get enough. And i dont like to gamble for them. 

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

They effectively nerfed the amount of clovers, laurels and everything else, while also nerfing the amount of resource you can generate by reducing the number of specials and reducing the resource they provide.

Made the whole thing feel more pointless, and more of a slog. So much for rewarding active play.

All leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Trejgon.9367]

32 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

while also nerfing the amount of resource you can generate by reducing the number of specials and reducing the resource they provide.

even with those specials that are available right now, there is still way more of AA to generate before season ends, than there is to spend on capped goods....

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

3 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

even with those specials that are available right now, there is still way more of AA to generate before season ends, than there is to spend on capped goods....

But it's over a longer period? Remember when they told us they wanted the new WV to provide MORE rewards than the old login system? Pepperidge kittening farm remembers.

By the time we get to the end of this season, I would have got more clovers under the old system, more mystic coins. Probably more laurels (I haven't done the maths on that). All the things that we were expecting to get more of under a system that requires you to play rather than just login. Sure, the WV has a bunch of skins I don't really want and a bunch of other "rewards" that aren't worth buying. But are we really any better off in terms of rewards we actually want? Doesn't feel like it.

 

[Trejgon.9367]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:27 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

But it's over a longer period?

Doesn't matter. Those handfull of the missing specials are by no means "a nerf to generating AA". Like sure, technically assuming they won't dump more specials at next periodic event like they did with halloween specials previous season, the total maximum AA generated within season will be slightly less. But it will still be way more than anyone is expected to need.

[Cobra.6509]

Don't really understand the problem, it's a craft able item, go craft them. If you receive less laurels I understand to complain but clovers...common be real. You get such much more with WV you should be able to afford to craft those missing clovers. Some peoples are  unhappy no matter you will do...

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:27 PM, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

But it's over a longer period? Remember when they told us they wanted the new WV to provide MORE rewards than the old login system? Pepperidge kittening farm remembers.

By the time we get to the end of this season, I would have got more clovers under the old system, more mystic coins. Probably more laurels (I haven't done the maths on that). All the things that we were expecting to get more of under a system that requires you to play rather than just login. Sure, the WV has a bunch of skins I don't really want and a bunch of other "rewards" that aren't worth buying. But are we really any better off in terms of rewards we actually want? Doesn't feel like it.

 

And it does provide more rewards than the old system. There is stuff in the WV that was never a part of dailies. Templates, ascended gear, weapon skins, emotes, at the moment also an infusion, legendary starter kits. You might not be satisfied with what they offer, but claiming the WV doesn't have more rewards than the old daily system is a blatant lie.

[Shuzuru.3651]

2 hours ago, Cobra.6509 said:

Don't really understand the problem, it's a craft able item, go craft them. If you receive less laurels I understand to complain but clovers...common be real. You get such much more with WV you should be able to afford to craft those missing clovers. Some peoples are  unhappy no matter you will do...

Well, first, you do receive less laurels as every reward is the same despite the longer period

Second, yeah, it's craftable... with mystic coin, whose main source is the WV, and from which you got less too with WV for this period, those 2 factors combined caused an increase in the mystic coin price. Not cool, and from what we know, Anet don't really want mystic coin to go that high, either. 

Also, if you were to compare this to the old daily system, that would be the equivalent of not receiving any login reward for a full month, the complaint is legit. 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

The contents of the vault is bound to be tweaked season by season. 

[Shiyo.3578]

Anet is adamantly against giving rewards since EoD so it makes sense.

[Teknomancer.4895]

1 hour ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

The contents of the vault is bound to be tweaked season by season. 

True enough, but the issue is what does "season" mean now, and is that going to be a relatively consistent length of time?

If season lengths are going to vary, it's not unreasonable to suggest that the totals in the WV should vary in proportion to that.

A season that lasts for 3 months should not have the same total volume of available rewards as a 2-month, 4-month etc season.

Basing the number of available (whatever) in the WV by a more fixed time reference like a month seems sensible.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Teknomancer.4895

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

4 hours ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

And it does provide more rewards than the old system. There is stuff in the WV that was never a part of dailies. Templates, ascended gear, weapon skins, emotes, at the moment also an infusion, legendary starter kits. You might not be satisfied with what they offer, but claiming the WV doesn't have more rewards than the old daily system is a blatant lie.

Sigh. I do love it when people don't read what you wrote, don't understand what you wrote, then respond to what you didn't say with indignation that you'd be so stupid as to say that thing that you didn't say.

I don't care about 90% of what the WV is offering as rewards. At this point in my GW2 journey, I'm focused on clovers, mystic coins, laurels and gold. That's basically it. If the old system was still here for the next WV period, instead of the WV, I'd be ending that period with more clovers, more coins, more laurels and if I could be bothered to work it out, probably more gold. For a system that ANET assured us would be more rewarding for the people that played the game.

The fact it has a bunch of rewards that the old system didn't have isn't relevant to me. Most of it is tat and as far as I'm concerned, pointless.

Not so much of a "blatant lie" after all, eh?

[Cyninja.2954]

39 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Sigh. I do love it when people don't read what you wrote, don't understand what you wrote, then respond to what you didn't say with indignation that you'd be so stupid as to say that thing that you didn't say.

I don't care about 90% of what the WV is offering as rewards. At this point in my GW2 journey, I'm focused on clovers, mystic coins, laurels and gold. That's basically it. If the old system was still here for the next WV period, instead of the WV, I'd be ending that period with more clovers, more coins, more laurels and if I could be bothered to work it out, probably more gold. For a system that ANET assured us would be more rewarding for the people that played the game.

The fact it has a bunch of rewards that the old system didn't have isn't relevant to me. Most of it is tat and as far as I'm concerned, pointless.

Not so much of a "blatant lie" after all, eh?

Yes, if you only logged in and are not actively completing dailies and weeklies, then the old system was more rewarding.

Under the new system, if completing just weeklies, you acquire more rewards than the old one, especially laurels and gold.

If you are actively doing dailies, weeklies and special achievements, the new system rewards around 10 times the gold of the logging rewards and significantly more laurels on top of unique skins and quality of life items.

Dailies alone are 3.5+ gold, nearly double of the old daily reward (dailies before any astral acclaim spent are 3 gold + 1 laurel per day).. That's before weeklies or special rewards or discounted gold bags etc.If one factors in astral acclaim rewards, this goes even higher, significantly higher.

The increase in gold, which is close to 10 fold, more than makes up any couple of clovers or mystic coins. Laurels (in case you missed it, weekly chests also reward laurels ON TOP of what the vault has. Which puts the base pre vault laurels gained at 40 per month for a total of 120 per 3 month cycle with another 150 for aa for an absolute total of 270 versus the previous 170 when selecting the laural chest each month), as mentioned, are significantly more under the new system.

EDIT:

others did the math multiple times by now. Here is one of the earliest threads:https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/15yg9q2/wizard_vault_rewards_breakdown/

Notice here that this thread assumes 14,760 astral acclaim, when in reality the actual total amount available in the last season was over 22k AA (which is another close to 100 gold if only converting for 90 point gold bags).

I'm really unsure how anyone who has actually done some basic math can with a strait face claim the new system rewards less. The only time it rewards less is if you do less than approximately 1/8th of all dailies and weeklies (so in essence just logging in). So yes, your alt accounts will yield less now. Some players have converted their play habits accordingly, now playing 3-4 alt accounts for the daily/weekly rewards and acquiring around the same amount of gold with 4-5 accounts as they did before with around 100.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

2 hours ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Sigh. I do love it when people don't read what you wrote, don't understand what you wrote, then respond to what you didn't say with indignation that you'd be so stupid as to say that thing that you didn't say.

I don't care about 90% of what the WV is offering as rewards. At this point in my GW2 journey, I'm focused on clovers, mystic coins, laurels and gold. That's basically it. If the old system was still here for the next WV period, instead of the WV, I'd be ending that period with more clovers, more coins, more laurels and if I could be bothered to work it out, probably more gold. For a system that ANET assured us would be more rewarding for the people that played the game.

The fact it has a bunch of rewards that the old system didn't have isn't relevant to me. Most of it is tat and as far as I'm concerned, pointless.

Not so much of a "blatant lie" after all, eh?

A blatant oversight, then. Oversight of the fact the WV wasn't made especially for you. There are people for whom your desired rewards are worthless and who very much do want the rewards it offers now. If the specific rewards aren't for you, just go for the endless gold supply. It's only limited by the amount of AA you can get. And that gold can get you your mystic coins and clovers. The way the rewards are set up now it covers a lot of bases, catering to a wide variety of people. But because it doesn't specifically cater to your wishes, because it isn't rewarding you in the exact way you want it to, it's worthless. Uh huh. Like others have said: if you can't bother to do the math it's not ANet's fault that you can't see the added value of the WV over the old daily system. When you've bought all the clovers and coins you can buy per quarter the WV can still supply you with more. It just doesn't do it directly.

[Sylvyn.4750]

12 hours ago, Cobra.6509 said:

Don't really understand the problem, it's a craft able item, go craft them. If you receive less laurels I understand to complain but clovers...common be real. You get such much more with WV you should be able to afford to craft those missing clovers. Some peoples are  unhappy no matter you will do...

Gambling for clovers in the Mystic Forge doesn't really qualify as crafting....

[Cyninja.2954]

15 hours ago, Sylvyn.4750 said:

Gambling for clovers in the Mystic Forge doesn't really qualify as crafting....

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Clover

Non RNG ways to acquire clovers currently, which still allows for most materials to be acquired via gold with a select material from specific content

- 10 per week from fractals

- 10 per week from raids

- 5 per week from strikes

- 5 per week from WvW

- 5 per week from SPvP

- infinite amount from Lyhr, at a premium cost (3 MC + 3 Obi Shards + 3 Spirit Shards + 5 Ecto) which only makes sense to pay if you absolutely want to avoid RNG. Still it's a strait gold -> clover conversion

- same recipe as Lyhr, but limited to 10 per week from Miyani and other Mystic Forge attendants for non SotO owners

If only there were ways to convert all that extra gold into Mystic Clovers without having to be subject to RNG...../s 🤦‍♂️

Edited November 25, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

13 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Clover

Non RNG ways to acquire clovers currently, which still allows for most materials to be acquired via gold with a select material from specific content

- 10 per week from fractals

- 10 per week from raids

- 5 per week from strikes

- 5 per week from WvW

- 5 per week from SPvP

- infinite amount from Lyhr, at a premium cost (3 MC + 3 Obi Shards + 3 Spirit Shards + 5 Ecto) which only makes sense to pay if you absolutely want to avoid RNG. Still it's a strait gold -> clover conversion

- same recipe as Lyhr, but limited to 10 per week from Miyani and other Mystic Forge attendants for non SotO owners

If only there were ways to convert all that extra gold into Mystic Clovers without having to be subject to RNG...../s 🤦‍♂️

Wow, that's great. Look at all those ways to get clovers that the WV has given us access to.

Oh wait, they were all there before WV, apart from the Lyhr one. So we had means of doing all of this without the WV. And we were just talking about the comparison between the WV and the old daily login process, which means all of this is irrelevant to the discussion.

Thanks for playing,. Maybe understand what the discussion is about before you jump in with your sarcastic "gotchas" next time?