How do yall feel about the Staff changes?

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

My feelings are mixed, but mostly positive.

I like the new bonk skill. And I like that it doesn't require targeting to use. Don't care much for the init cost.

The one that I am mixed about is the skill four.

The animation for Charr is... ergh... bout what you expect with Charr in this game. The staff just kinda floats. I like that it is my own demand reflect, so get stuffed rangers. But I do miss the ranged poke.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[DontPaniC.8740]

I like it. Staff looks and feels more like how I envisioned it when it was announced.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

i just wish the helmet breaker was a leap finisher too on the flip TO helmet breaker.

[Eugenides.1274]

I'm sad about the loss of reflect from the auto attack chain but I understand the reason for moving it to something on demand which opens up more usage scenarios.

The new Dust Strike is growing on me the more I use it. Great for on demand reflects and AoE blind in WvW. I'd like the damage to be slightly higher since you're stuck in the cast animation longer than previously. Considering that you twirl the staff around it's also somewhat odd that it isn't a whirl finisher.

I don't like Debilitating Arc and Helmet Breaker. I didn't like Debilitating Arc before the change so I might be biased here. The immobilize removal is nice but the initiative cost is too high for a half second evade that often leads you to getting hit after the actual dodge. I just don't find myself using these at all due to the initiative cost and low damage. If I need to close distance I will just use Vault. If I need the daze from Helmet Strike I'd rather just use Dust Strike to blind or reflect the attack. It feels like a niche skill that doesn't really have a niche not covered by other skills.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Eugenides.1274

[Doggie.3184]

It's really hard to land Helmet Breaker in PvP cuz of the backroll but I guess that's how they balance it, honestly they could probably remove the ini cost increase due to the difficulty of using it. It's great in PvE. Dust Strike is nice for instant-tagging enemies in PvE, might not need Shortbow anymore. Would be nice in WvW if we had a way to defend ourselves like Stability cuz the Range is just too small to use it there safely as a squish and now we'll have whole armies of Warriors spamming pulls on top of the current pull spam.. Reflect on demand is nice and probably gives us an advantage in instanced PvE, like Fractals, but haven't tried it yet there. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Szymon.5369]

Eh, I didn't evaluate Helmet Breaker initially well because I missed the part about recasting it, it's actually quite useful, fun and arguably better than Headshot since you can do an entire auto chain inbetween bonks, so it's available for a decent time. But Debilitating Arc is still clunky as it always was so that's a big negative.

I'm kinda bummed about staff4, it was a good skill yet got scrapped. So basically a bad/clunky skill (3) and a niche but useful skill (4) were changed - but the bad one got expanded and built upon, while the good one got discarded, so overall I'm rather lukewarm about the whole process.

[Mhina.1827]

Mad that we're still examining changes to staff when sword has been afk for the better half of a decade. Everyone didn't create the "assassin" archetype class to cosplay as a great value monk with no boon generation or sustain. Man I played druid for a while like 2 weeks ago and it was crazy how kitten near every combination of weapons felt so good to use. Sword/dagger, dagger/ torch, axe/dagger, sword/torch, sword/wh, shortbow, staff, axe/axe, all of them felt viable to use. We technically have access to a fair bit of weapons on thief, but they really don't feel good. So I personally am tired of seeing staff on the buff/revamp menu. But I dunno. Maybe that's just me. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Mhina.1827

[Jobber.6348]

Helmet Breaker is just awesome. That's all tbh. 

[Jumpel.3972]

I really like the new Dust Strike and Helmet Breaker is a great addition for PVE (in PVP the whole int cost is just awful).

What I don't like, it's the aftercast of  Debilitating Arckilling killing the flow by chaining it with Helmet Breaker.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Jumpel.3972

[godofcows.2451]

Both meh imo. Helmet breaker is clunky and even with the daze just isn't worth the total ini cost.The new dust strike can work but imo needs more damage and range. That's what the old dust strike had after all. A little bit of range. And it was good.  My conclusion? These changes were unnecessary and just created more work for the employees. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by godofcows.2451

[cjttruelife.9172]

terrible so staff is pretty much still the same . thx for nothing ANET?👍. staff with no real teleport or shadowstep or combo fields is pretty bad. the worst staff and weapons in the game are better than DD staff. heck i'd even prefer a revenant hammer skills for DD staff.  they should have made staff 4 sweep a wall of reflection to combo... for something like stealth or projectiles . in the end it makes no difference staff is horrible. only cc is a chinsey knockdown, but here's the problem you can't get stealth from staff skills anyways to utilize it. . 

Edited December 4, 2023 by cjttruelife.9172

[Doul.9314]

I really like new stuffs. Both skills are now functionable. Before they were almost useless.

However still need some adjustments.

*The Skill 4 (dust strike) should create a Combo Field: Smoke.

*The Helmet Breaker skill should apply a Combo Finisher: Leap.

Another suggestion is it should be possible to use skill 4 continuously, for constant damage without that pause for every 4 initiative points spent.

[Charybdizs.7490]

8 hours ago, cjttruelife.9172 said:

heck i'd even prefer a revenant hammer skills for DD staff.  they should have made staff 4 sweep a wall of reflection to combo... for something like stealth or projectiles

This exactly. Good or bad, I was actually a staff main, and I can't believe this. They got rid of the actual unique dust FX it had for an awkward animation + generic tornado & tiny reflect, while nerfing Punishing Strikes (removed the reflect from it), taking away Staff's ONLY mid-range move (old dust strike). Is the old animation (which was really sick) even used anywhere in the game anymore?

I'm so mad. I figured something like Rev Hammer 4 would have been the obvious go-to if they wanted to change dust strike, but too bad for us I guess. kitten.

[UNOwen.7132]

Way too overcosted in PvP, good otherwise.

[Gadzooks.4687]

Dont like the change to reflect. I ultimately reflected more things by it being part of the auto chain than having it on demand. This is largely due to so many things attacking with range when I fight. I feel it really upped the survivability of my thief when I solo things... not so much anymore though.

[Crystal Death.9158]

I personally like the changes. It never made sense for the reflect to be part of the auto chain, as you could never plan it. Bonking is also fun. Only change I would make is to make staff 4 a skill you can hold and have it keep spinning (for the cost of initiative of course). 

The downside is that giving staff a reflect made me realize how the DD kit is lacking cohesion. Sure, I can reflect, but why reflect something when I can dodge? Evading gives me way more bonuses, while reflect is just for cool points. Seems to me like other elite specs have more theming and do a better job of tying into the class traits (I play necro, and reaper does a great job of converting the long distance class to an up close powerhouse with crazy sustain, and makes chill your personal Swiss army knife of conditions/boons). DD gets a block physical and now a reflect, and they don't even come close to the amount of bonuses you can get from evading an attack.

 

Solution: Make it so wherever it says "evade" in the description of a thief trait, it now says "evade, block, and reflect". Still makes evading worth it due to bounding dodger/impaling lotus, but now block and reflect can get bonuses so they don't feel so underwhelming of options compared to evading

[SoftPup.3048]

I like reflecting the laser bars in uncategorized fractal. I guess helm breaker is probably good for break bars but I keep forgetting it exists.

[Antycypator.9874]

Dust Strike does the worst thing you could do in a fight — your character's pose literally says "Now you can stab me wherever you want".

But at least reflect works, there more damage.

And I like new BONK skills. The best defiance-bar melter has entered the chat.

[Geriatrics.5823]

From a WvW/PvP perspective:

The new Dust Strike is clunky with a frustrating aftercast compared to the old version. I don't understand why the blind duration was nerfed, and the loss of vulnerability also hurts the skill a lot. At best, it's a side-grade to the old Dust Strike, sacrificing range and speed for reflect and multiple hits.

That said, losing Punishing Strikes' ~50% reflect uptime in melee range with 0 initiative cost for another clunky melee aoe skill has been the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Geriatrics.5823

[Katalan.7930]

Debilitating Arc and Helmet Breaker are nice changes in term of possibilities while using staff. Now you don't have only a dodge but you have finally an interrupt on staff which is now very fun to play staff because you are now using all the 5 skills of the weapons. I love those changes ! 

HOWEVER, Debilitating Arc cost too much initiative (5 initiatives), which mean you rather using your staff 5 instead. Once the initiative cost will be reduced to 4 the weapon can be fully played in my opinion! 

Staff skill 4 is definitely a up! You are now protected in mele-range and from projectiles! I just miss the vulnerability you used to apply before. Would be nice to add vulnerability to the skill! 

[ThiefPlayer.1823]

in WvW, new staff 4 is a huge downgrade, the lack of range made it useless. and its too expensive to use the new 3.