Buff/Rework Staff when?

[Noodle Ant.1605]

projectiles need a velocity increase and skill cast times need reducing across the board. ele staff skills are awfully slow for current standards

as far as pve is concerned, staff power dps is a bit behind sword/warhorn. it mainly revolves around key skills: fireball, lava font and meteor shower (and pyroclastic blast for weaver)

• fireball: heavily spammed mediocre skill with a massive windup/cast time that makes it difficult to use. has bizarre ability to whiff despite not being blinded (due to slow projectile). desperately needs the speed buff (velocity & cast time)
• lava font: carries staff power dps. not in much need of pve buffs other than shuffling the dmg ticks to hit a bit sooner
• meteor shower: the current value of this skill is held back by its excessively long cast time. since its usually cast in relative safety, i feel like shaving a whole second off from cast would change little other than letting the ele get back to throwing fireballs/doing other things sooner. meteors could also fall faster
• pyroclastic blast (weaver): lava font v2. doesnt need much other than the aforementioned velocity increase and cast time reduction

straight up dmg buffs to these skills are welcome but are probably less of a priority

the other dmg skills (ice spike, lightning surge, eruption, all weaver dual attacks) do need pve dmg buffs. most are barely any better than just spamming fireball

• eruption: cast time should just be removed (similar to lava font/frozen ground) due to its long delay. making it an ammunition skill could be interesting
• chain lightning: ability to bounce back to the first target should be removed and compensated with dmg buffs (staff air doesnt have much dps anyway)

the poor breakbar capability on staff has been pointed out multiple times. gust has too long of a cooldown for its current effect. static field at least should do something on initial placement to justify the cast time

[Emberheart.8426]

5 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

projectiles need a velocity increase and skill cast times need reducing across the board. ele staff skills are awfully slow for current standards

as far as pve is concerned, staff power dps is a bit behind sword/warhorn. it mainly revolves around key skills: fireball, lava font and meteor shower (and pyroclastic blast for weaver)

• fireball: heavily spammed mediocre skill with a massive windup/cast time that makes it difficult to use. has bizarre ability to whiff despite not being blinded (due to slow projectile). desperately needs the speed buff (velocity & cast time)
• lava font: carries staff power dps. not in much need of pve buffs other than shuffling the dmg ticks to hit a bit sooner
• meteor shower: the current value of this skill is held back by its excessively long cast time. since its usually cast in relative safety, i feel like shaving a whole second off from cast would change little other than letting the ele get back to throwing fireballs/doing other things sooner. meteors could also fall faster
• pyroclastic blast (weaver): lava font v2. doesnt need much other than the aforementioned velocity increase and cast time reduction

straight up dmg buffs to these skills are welcome but are probably less of a priority

the other dmg skills (ice spike, lightning surge, eruption, all weaver dual attacks) do need pve dmg buffs. most are barely any better than just spamming fireball

• eruption: cast time should just be removed (similar to lava font/frozen ground) due to its long delay. making it an ammunition skill could be interesting
• chain lightning: ability to bounce back to the first target should be removed and compensated with dmg buffs (staff air doesnt have much dps anyway)

the poor breakbar capability on staff has been pointed out multiple times. gust has too long of a cooldown for its current effect. static field at least should do something on initial placement to justify the cast time

I agree with many of the suggestions here, but I would like to add a bit to this.

Meteor Shower: Overall a good suggestion but an alternative way to change it would be to increase the cast time to 4 seconds and make all the meteors fall within the cast. Just burstier but riskier to use than your suggestion.

Eruption: I'd prefer a smaller delay rather than getting rid of the cast. This thing is just impossible to not walk out of even with the cripple.

Static Field: Rename it to lightning burst. A large lightning burst strikes the ground, doing decent damage, 5 stacks of vulnerability and stunning enemies for 2 seconds (daze instead in PvP), then the static field appears in that area.

Burning Retreat: Reduce PvE damage to the point where it's not worth using in a rotation. Should be used for evading and positioning first and foremost instead of cheesing dps golems.

Unsteady Ground: Useless CC against most bosses. I feel that this and guardian's line of warding should get some work done for this purpose. Haven't thought of what exactly as of now. 

Shock Wave: The way this skill functions is very clunky. Elevation can completely negate the skill much more than any other projectile skill because it's underground. Also being negated by reflects and projectile destruction is very unintuitive for an underground attack and adds yet another weakness to it. Definitely shouldn't be both an underground attack and a projectile. I'd prefer if it was just a proper projectile so we don't get negated by elevation. 

 

One thing that I'd like to point out is that the current design of conjures is very likely holding staff changes back big time. Staff has always been the kind of weapon where you had a small amount of really strong damage skills and everything else sucked. What made it work is that conjures covered the gaps. These days it's not as pronounced because there have been nerfs to staff and conjures. However, I think Anet may be afraid of the possibility that staff ele gets too much damage while spitting out utility from oher attunements.

In a vacuum increasing the damage of non-fire attunements is completely reasonable since the damage is usually far too low even if you consider the utility, especially with the power creep that other builds/professions have received. Still, if they overshot they could potentially have a monster of a build with good utility, range, AoE and damage that is never has to be traded even if using the utility, especially now that non-CC staff utility has seen buffs.

Perhaps we should get the long overdue conjure rework before getting the work that staff needs. That way you won't have conjures closing those damage gaps in non-fire attunements and then damage buffs can be given to their skills. I should probably revisit the conjure design yet again and suggest a rework idea. Thinking of opening a thread.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Emberheart.8426

[Ahlaradra.5837]

Personally, I do not even need a full staff rework. It is a bit sluggish and outdated, but at this point, even just some number tweaks would do so much. Just so we can feel happier. 🙂 
I don't need it to be amongst the best dps builds, but it should be a competitive choice for endgame. This goes for many neglected weapons across classes.

[Loboling.5293]

I love staff, its the only weapon on ele I truly enjoy. I don't use it for open world, as it kind of sucks for that, but for pvp, its my weapon of choice. I use it for both zerker and support healer. Both work well for my playstyle. I'm worried a rework would remove the charm of the weapon, but I agree that some number changes would do a lot of good. Removing the meteor shower nerf, buffing fire skill 1, and honestly, I think the weapon is just fine. It really doesn't need much for it to feel good. 

[Junkpile.7439]

Staff skills are so simple, boring and lack impact. Why elementalist can't create huge rockball and roll in over enemies? Maybe ele could make it bounce too by using some gravity magic and it could start to burn if you roll it over fire field.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Junkpile.7439

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

5 hours ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

Staff skills are so simple, boring and lack impact. Why elementalist can't create huge rockball and roll in over enemies? Maybe ele could make it bounce too by using some gravity magic and it clould start to burn if you roll it over fire field.

What if Tornado wasn't elite skill but instead became a morph glyphlike skill dependant on current attunement? Like imagine Tornado being available in Air, but big fat boulder in Earth that would roll over enemies dealing massive damage and knocking them down with additional like earthshock that would send damaging waves around boulder. In water it could be like Whirlpool that would pull enemies to the center while also providing some heals or buffs or even debuffs. Fire could become something like Lava Flood dealing massive damage while also slowing enemies and burning their boons.
So much stuff could be done for Ele.

[AbeVin.9128]

for years i have not even posted once on this forum.... but i am getting tired of playing ele or even ranger as close combat classes.

Actually everything is meant to be played from close combat due to boon spread etc... but this is what makes this game just stupid nowadays.
it is like: stack, boon, heal, be all together in one place, let's not make ranged weapons even optional for pve group content and this is due to reason unfortunately. The reason is how Anet implemented boons or even heals. Everything is meant to be used close distance from each other and this makes ranged weapons useless, at least for grouped pve content.

anyway.....i wish for nothing more but revamp of staff and dagger main hand.

Maybe one day we will have it

Edited December 10, 2023 by AbeVin.9128

[Curennos.9307]

I like that anet is trying to add sub-mechanics to weapons. Their results definitely vary but it's something you don't really see in other games with this kind of combat system. If staff does get a rework, I'd like to see it have one of those, though off the top of my head it'd be hard to think of something that would 1) Fit and 2) Not break anything someone currently likes about the weapon.

But imma try anyway.

Why not turn the auto attack into some sort of field placement skill, similar to Centaur Rev's tablet, but a larger AoE, and depending on what attunement you're in that field will constantly pulse some effect? Fire is power damage and burning, water is healing and (less) power damage, air is power damage and vuln, etc. Then use the AA button to move it around, and then all the skills change how that field works.

Meteor Shower fire5 makes the field bigger and does...y'know. Meteor shower. Lava font adds a smaller aoe in the center that moves with the field, and so on. Cause currently, by and large I can't think of a single AA attack on staff I actually like, and it's an interesting weapon-specific sub mechanic that, IMO, would fit both the fantasy vibe of staff (people want staff to be a ranged nuker). It'd need to be differentiated from rev tablet, of course- bigger aoe, slower (tablet zips around very easily, whereas placement of the field might have a longer cooldown or something). It'd also make staff unique by letting it have it's AA 'out' or 'casting' even while skills are casting, as skills would only layer on top of the AA-field pulses. maybe even provide a constant combo field? Who knows.

Then trim the delays on water 2 and earth 2 cause it's p much impossible to hit anyone but a slower moving zerg with them. Other folks have already provided excellent suggestions for the issues with individual skills - I think this + tweaks to the 2-5 skills would put the weapon in a good spot. 

[Szatko.8132]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:08 AM, ShadowStep.3640 said:

People say "Buff staff" over and over again but provide no suggestions as to what that would feasibly look like. The identity of the staff as it is right now is a AoE focused jack of all trades weapon. 

Realistically what skills need to be drastically changed without upsetting or removing an already loved skill?

Fire1: could be faster but its fine

Fire 2: Fine

Fire 3: only source of burning but could be changed i guess

Fire 4: much needed mobility

Fire 5: Best part of weapon

Water 1: probably one of the best candidates for a change

Water 2: Fine, big damage and blast finisher just a little delay time

Water 3: solid healing

Water4: AoE Chill, good luck convincing WvW players to dump this one

Water 5: same as above

Air 1: Probably the one skill in the entire weapon that needs changed. Preferably a fast power spam skill like a piercing or chain version of Scepter air 1

Air 2: Has decent power coefficient no need to change

Air 3: probs could be changed, not very usefull

Air 4: provides utility and super speed useful for comp modes. 

Air 5: Solid AoE cc but it could be reimagined if need be

Earth 1: Solid candidate for a better move, 

Earth 2: a little slow and weak, needs buffs but not reworked

Earth 3: Mag aura is solid

Earth 4: Dont know if this is necessary if Air5 is kept could be reworked

Earth 5: Bad needs to be redone

 

So we see that the main offenders of "Staff is bad" is Water, Air, Earth Autos and Air 3, Earth 2, Earth 4, Earth 5. You could throw some others in like Fire 3 or Water 4 but really its the air attainment and earth attunement that need help not the entire weapon. 

You got me at "fire 5" being the best part of the kit 😂

[zeyeti.8347]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:08 AM, ShadowStep.3640 said:

Fire 5: Best part of weapon

Waaa... i mean waaaaaa ? meteor sprinkles as it is called today  is a skill with randomness to it , it was greatly used against large hitboxes due to this randomness , now with that -x % damage per strike and literally 0 damage when target is hit more than 5 times , this skills isn't doing his job , especially for such a long cast time and cooldown.

if i can think of a rework it's pretty simple , you make the aoe ablaze on the ground to indicate visually the area , and every x seconde a meteor fall down to all targets in the area (max 5 or 10 i dunno , balance issue) add aoe damage to each meteor (or not) but shrink the damage on the aoe hit (not on the main target , like -66% damage , to not make it gold tier cleaving nightmare) , and add a 1 seconde knockdown to first striking meteor just once.

So no randomness to the skill , hitbox size doesnt matter as much and balance damage around it not making it worthless using in any scenarios and you don't have this ugly -x% damage per strike who is completely random and a frustrating mechanic.

Also make ele able to move when casting it ... i can't think of a skill nowadays who root you in place and is inefficient , yes axe 5 from ranger root you in place , but the damage is just incredible and is the reason soulbeast is the king of burst so this rooting here is quite understandable.

Edited December 31, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Khalisto.5780]

We had buffs to supp skills and I guess that's it

They wont make the offensive skills much better than they're now

[Caffynated.5713]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:08 PM, ShadowStep.3640 said:

People say "Buff staff" over and over again but provide no suggestions as to what that would feasibly look like. The identity of the staff as it is right now is a AoE focused jack of all trades weapon. 

 

I did list the changes I want, and some of them were actually put in 2 months later. Notably changes to Air 4 and Water 5. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2023-02-14#Elementalist_2

People just need to continue expressing their dissatisfaction with the weapon set and specifically say what it needs to be competitive. 

[noneHotBuildTest.7251]

Totally get where you're coming from! Ele definitely needs a boost. The damage nerf? Totally doesn't make sense. We're all in for the proposed buff, but let's not stop there. Ele should pack more punch and shine like it deserves.

[Jski.6180]

Fire

Fire ball needs to burn in all game types as well as lava faunt.

Flame Burst needs to have an cone hit when you dont have an target.

Burning Retreat needs to do an burst of burning / dmg at the point of where you start the skill.

Meteor shower needs ammo and has an burning effect on the target it hits.

Water

Water Blast needs to be unblockable and heal a target for more if that target has regeneration.

Ice Spike is mostly fine though i could see a reason to add a low duration chill on it.

Geyser should have an daze on cast(a knock back maybe too hard to use right but it is an geyser so it should have some type of cc tide to it.)

Frozen ground is fine as is.

Healing rain needs ammo.

Air

Chain Lighting should do higher crit dmg base off of number of bounces. First hit is +0% crit dmg 2ed hit is +10% crit dmg 3ed hit is +20% crit dmg.

Lighting surge should have an bigger aoe when it hits and if you have no target it should fire in an cone effect.

Gust should give you super speed if you interrupt an target.

Static field needs ammo.

Earth

Stoning should have piercing.

Eruption should only be on an 2 sec delay or have no cast time.

Magnetic Aura is fine as is.

Unsteady ground should strip an boon.

Shock wave needs ammo.

Weaver duel skills should no longer be projectiles so they are no longer refelctable and or blockable by ranged hate. (The dule skills are too slow to even deal with range hate in any way.)

Cata elite skill should no longer have an cdr effect but it should be more of an "give self all boons" skill. (removing the ability to doable the staff skills for an single elite spec only and at the same time not giving cata 3 skills.)

Tempest would simply get more from the healing effects of applying reg to ppl and spaming 1.

 

[Stallic.2397]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Fire

Fire ball needs to burn in all game types as well as lava faunt.

Flame Burst needs to have an cone hit when you dont have an target.

Burning Retreat needs to do an burst of burning / dmg at the point of where you start the skill.

Meteor shower needs ammo and has an burning effect on the target it hits.

Water

Water Blast needs to be unblockable and heal a target for more if that target has regeneration.

Ice Spike is mostly fine though i could see a reason to add a low duration chill on it.

Geyser should have an daze on cast(a knock back maybe too hard to use right but it is an geyser so it should have some type of cc tide to it.)

Frozen ground is fine as is.

Healing rain needs ammo.

Air

Chain Lighting should do higher crit dmg base off of number of bounces. First hit is +0% crit dmg 2ed hit is +10% crit dmg 3ed hit is +20% crit dmg.

Lighting surge should have an bigger aoe when it hits and if you have no target it should fire in an cone effect.

Gust should give you super speed if you interrupt an target.

Static field needs ammo.

Earth

Stoning should have piercing.

Eruption should only be on an 2 sec delay or have no cast time.

Magnetic Aura is fine as is.

Unsteady ground should strip an boon.

Shock wave needs ammo.

Weaver duel skills should no longer be projectiles so they are no longer refelctable and or blockable by ranged hate. (The dule skills are too slow to even deal with range hate in any way.)

Cata elite skill should no longer have an cdr effect but it should be more of an "give self all boons" skill. (removing the ability to doable the staff skills for an single elite spec only and at the same time not giving cata 3 skills.)

Tempest would simply get more from the healing effects of applying reg to ppl and spaming 1.

 

Cc on geyser is clever 😜

Why isn't static field as strong as necro fear ring?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

On 12/4/2023 at 12:57 AM, Howluffu.7259 said:

Tbh RNG skills like meteor shower or rev gs5 are stupid. Can we get staff5 renamed to Meteor/Meteora/Meteo and make it so it is 1 single BIG AS HEECK flaming boulder from the space to the ground with massive hitbox and great dmg so no RNG bs kittens its dmg?

It's already been renamed to Meteor Sprinkle

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

Cc on geyser is clever 😜

Why isn't static field as strong as necro fear ring?

Utility vs wepon skill i guess. I think the ammo thing would go a long way to help the staff but i want there to be an 5 to 10 sec delay between the skill use just the same so you cant doable up in one bomb and keep the ability to bomb more often

[nofo.8469]

staff just feels bad to play

its not necessarily bad it just feels horrible to play. Eles need more ranged options badly

[Caffynated.5713]

On 1/27/2024 at 4:15 AM, nofo.8469 said:

staff just feels bad to play

its not necessarily bad it just feels horrible to play. Eles need more ranged options badly

It's stuck in 2012 while fighting against the new and updated weapon sets that are faster casting, faster hitting, less telegraphed, more mobile, Multi-hitting (makes block and blind almost irrelevant), more damaging, larger area AoE weapons that vomit boons and conditions nonstop. 

It's from an entirely different gaming era from 2024 GW2. Of course, it's going to feel bad to use. 

Edited January 28 by Caffynated.5713