WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket system and requirement for Conflux.

[kash.9213]

4 hours ago, Firefly.5982 said:

Lack of skirmish tickets is a problem for people who don't play WvW regularly, consistently, and long-term - people who started the game or game mode late, people who can't/don't want to play WvW, people who have very little time to play etc.

Tickets aren't a problem for people who have been playing WvW regularly for years because those people have way more tickets than they could ever use for legendaries.

I think weekly rewards are fine as is - IF we got a LITTLE more tickets for actively playing to allow people who actually actively play to farm some.

I also think rewards in GW2 are abyssmal, period (except the new Wizard's Vault which I think they did pretty well with!) so that's a whole other discussion to have.

But these are just my thoughts - I don't get to make any decisions and have no influence so it's not an argument.

I just get people's frustration with things taking forever for them - it's what kept me from working on legendaries for the first like 8 years of playing this game lol. You either get over that and decide you want to do it anyways, or you decide that legendaries are not for you. Because it's very clear that it will never be occasional, little playtime player friendly in GW2 to opbtain legendaries. Unless you are rich, of course...just like in the real world 😄

I only get like a half hour after work, much of the time more like ten-twenty minutes but more on the weekends. I feel like I pull in everything I need for the most part and I usually have enough gold as consequence of just doing stuff to buy the rest.

I would like to have a Legendeary bank or chest to store and organize all that stuff. If I had something like that I would have started my legendary armor way sooner also. Well worth it to crank that out though if you use a few different templates. It might be mostly a visual hurdle to get over when you look at your bank and the shopping list you're trying to knock out. 

[Ashen.2907]

I think that it could work for skirmish ticket rewards for completing chests to be reversed relative to current progression. Have wood chests give the most and diamomd the least, but remove the weekly cap. People who complete diamond every week will get more as will those who only complete wood.

Edited January 8 by Ashen.2907

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Anasate.5408

I have no idea why this post has so many confused faces because you're absolutely right. The requirement of skirmish tickets vs. wvw legendary is unreasonably high.

For example, building a set of wvw legend armor requires 18 weeks at full pips. This requires "5 to 6 months of play" about "15 to 20 hours a week". In all seriousness, it could be said that a person has to grind wvw like an actual part time job for half a year, to be able to get enough skirmish tickets to build a set of wvw legend armor.

All of the people who stay home all the time and have nothing else to do are probably thinking: "HA laugh emoji or confused emoji git gud" but really though, for people who actually do have things to do with their day, this is waaaay too much of a raw time gate, especially with how the skirmish ticket progression works, getting low amounts at lower tier rewards. A person who has things to do, maybe can find 4 to 8 hours a week to play, but when it requires 18 weeks at 15-20 hours a week, with how the ticket progression works, only being able to clock 4-8 hours a week or maybe even a solid 10 hours a week, turns that 18 weeks into a full year or more before a person could realistically complete the legendary.

But yeah, anyway, you are right. Too many tickets are required for the wvw tied legends. They should lower the amount of tickets required for this stuff, even if they have to up liquid gold costs, the sheer time-gate of this stuff should not be so high.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

I have no idea why this post has so many confused faces because you're absolutely right. The requirement of skirmish tickets vs. wvw legendary is unreasonably high.

Why not just use ascended then? Why do you need it? Why not raid instead?

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

For example, building a set of wvw legend armor requires 18 weeks at full pips. This requires "5 to 6 months of play" about "15 to 20 hours a week". In all seriousness, it could be said that a person has to grind wvw like an actual part time job for half a year, to be able to get enough skirmish tickets to build a set of wvw legend armor.

Why is it a grind versus just play the game mode? Again what are you using it for an what are going to build next? The answer is nothing. Once you build one weight class you are done. So stated average is 22 weeks for a full set of a weight class.

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

All of the people who stay home all the time and have nothing else to do are probably thinking: "HA laugh emoji or confused emoji git gud" but really though, for people who actually do have things to do with their day, this is waaaay too much of a raw time gate, especially with how the skirmish ticket progression works, getting low amounts at lower tier rewards. A person who has things to do, maybe can find 4 to 8 hours a week to play, but when it requires 18 weeks at 15-20 hours a week, with how the ticket progression works, only being able to clock 4-8 hours a week or maybe even a solid 10 hours a week, turns that 18 weeks into a full year or more before a person could realistically complete the legendary.

But yeah, anyway, you are right. Too many tickets are required for the wvw tied legends. They should lower the amount of tickets required for this stuff, even if they have to up liquid gold costs, the sheer time-gate of this stuff should not be so high.

So how long does it take a player to craft an Ascended Breast plate to cover all options that Leggo does? 33 weeks for one toon and one piece of gear versus 22 to cover all pieces on all toons with the same weight class . That's one of 6 pieces. So you can spend 22 weeks to make a set that cover it all for a weight class or 33 weeks to cover all combinations for a piece of gear for 1 one piece and then figure out how to store it.

So to keep this simple due to the hour, you have 69 toons. In 22 weeks you can make a set of full set of heavy armor for all 69 or spend 2277 weeks to make a Breast plate for all of them and then need to spend however much longer to cover the other pieces of gear. 

66 weeks for three full sets is a short term requirement vs 2277 weeks for just 1 piece of gear for one weight class yeah?

This is an end game goal after all and they have shrunk it by how much?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Serious responses btw:

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Why not just use ascended then? Why do you need it? Why not raid instead?

Because patching massively flips usually about every 2 months now. As a person with at least one of each class, rearranging ascended gear to optimize for both wvw and pve with all the templates involved now, becomes not only very expensive in the long run, but extremely tedious and flat out obnoxious. It also feels very messy in bank/inv space to have an unbelievably large stash of ascended gear laying around that you're "not sure if you'll ever need these pieces ever again but you save them anyway just in case". I don't "need" legendary gear, but I "want" legendary gear so that rearranging around each meta flip isn't a ridiculously expensive & tedious chore to have to do. If one had all legendary weapons, armors, and even trinkets, the ease in readjusting builds would feel fantastic. This is of course why players work to build them, in conjunction with the obviously cool skins they want from the legends.

Regardless of if anyone needs or wants anything, that is no justification for unreasonable time-gating of any content. You're talking to someone who has been here since day 1 release, who has over 30,000 games played in pvp, and an overall embarrassing amount of hours/days/weeks/moths/years/decade+ invested into GW2, including its pve. I know the game well and how difficult it is or isn't to build other legends. I used to work with Guild MM to build & sell them on a routine basis. And even someone like me is pointing out that skirmish ticket requirement for wvw tied legends is an awfully long & steep trudge. I mean comparatively to other legends, even other legend armor sets, the wvw skirmish ticket requirement is clearly greatly overdone compared to other sets. And enough of that "Do you need it? If you don't, don't worry about" stuff. Because that's like me saying to you: "Do you need to play this game? If you don't, then don't play it at all". The major point being thrown forth here, is that overly elongated time-gating is silly. Like do you realize how many gen 1 legends I could build and sell in 18 weeks? With mounts now and how many sources of mystic coins/clovers there are, you would be surprised. And this is the ultimate point, that with a great deal of effort invested, I could crank out casually probably 2 gen 1s a week if I really wanted to "being serious btw". That is gen 1 legends if trying hard, or maybe about 15 if being lazy while working for 18 weeks. That's over double the legends of 6x armor pieces while playing lazy, and over quadruple 6x armor pieces if trying hard to make gold. The problem with time-gating, is that it prevents lucrative players from being lucrative. Players who are wise should be rewarded in their efforts & knowledge of how to get things done with extra effort involved. An 18 week time gate is just obnoxious. It makes a game feel less like a game, and more like just waiting in line. When I can be smart about what I'm doing and expedite processes, that feels more like a game that is addicting. People get bored waiting in line man. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

To get the asc armor pieces themselves have a reasonable cost in my opinion. To turn them into wvw legend pieces, the problem very specifically is right here: Legendary War Insight - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) <- these things should be half the price that they are. That's an insane amount of tickets required to make those gifts. Like proportionately to all the other pieces required to make the armor, everything kind of adds up at an even pace for completion, except those tickets. By the time you have enough tickets to make 6x war insights, you could make all the other things required for the armor three or four times over or more. It's a disproportionate ridiculous amount of time-gated currency as a requirement.

Edited January 9 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Chaba.5410]

Man, people gonna be hardcore grinding rifts for the upcoming legendary Obsidian Armor, but do go on about how long it takes to get skirmish tickets.

[Firefly.5982]

21 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, you're starting to get it.

Legendaries are  vanity items that contributes  little to  overall power. They are meant as sinks with people with too much time or money.  People like to exaggerate their importance too much, which is why the balance of them isn't that important. The speed of raid legendaries is the outlier-- and given how the state of raids are, I would say just leave them be. If you really started out raids knowing everything to put it on full farm, you probably beat the game anyways.

It's very much like luxury useless stuff with marginal use irl too, like RGB everything on computers. But people on copium will try to tell you how it's essential either to justify their purchases or to envy others.

It is indeed difficult to shake off the urge to go for something just because it's a higher rank, but this game is just different.

If legendaries were only a vanity item, I'd have exactly zero interest in them xD I am finally making legendaries now because I play various characters, each with various builds (pdps, cdps, zerg, roam, bunker, support), optimize and tweak as the game or my preferences change...I am tired of wasting money and time over and over and over again on new asc gear and it's very much worth it for me to make leggies and be done forever so I can focus entirely on just PLAYING.

I don't even use my legendary skins because I don't like them much...it's the functionality I am after :3

IMO stat swapping is a quality of life feature that should just be inherent to any game...but that's a discussion for another time 🤣

[Firefly.5982]

8 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Man, people gonna be hardcore grinding rifts for the upcoming legendary Obsidian Armor, but do go on about how long it takes to get skirmish tickets.

One thing being ridiculously time consuming doesn't negate another thing also being ridiculously time consuming.

(BTW essences aren't time-gated at all and the amount you get per rift can be significantly increased by doing 1 Convergence to get the boost and/or spending some gold for motivations so this isn't even a good comparison 😛 )

[Dawdler.8521]

9 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Because patching massively flips usually about every 2 months now.

Go into equipment tab 1. 

Name it "For WvW only"

Make all celestial. 

Boom done regardless of patch changes. 

Besides, you dont think we've all been through that? Having like 2-3 gearsets in our inventory/bank just for WvW. All kinds of different weapons. For each character. Going to the forge and changing stats every other month. Looking through half a dozen characters just to find that one ascended weapons you need to try a new build until you get annoyed and buy a new anyway.

Legendaries is pure luxury.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Firefly.5982 said:

BTW essences aren't time-gated at all and the amount you get per rift can be significantly increased by doing 1 Convergence to get the boost and/or spending some gold for motivations so this isn't even a good comparison 😛

Why is that desirable?  Players already complain about the roughly 15 hours a week for a time-gated resource and you make it sound like having something that incentives playing longer than 15 hours because there's no diminishing returns mechanism is better than the time-gate.  Game addicts rejoice!  There's a reason too that PvE map metas only give one "heros" chest per day.  Say, isn't that boost you mentioned only a once a day thing too?  Hrm...
 

1 hour ago, Firefly.5982 said:

One thing being ridiculously time consuming doesn't negate another thing also being ridiculously time consuming.

At least compare apples.  The point was to compare acquisition on what are essentially both low effort play to illustrate what's being ignored.  Anet designed Obsidian Armor acquisition the way they did because it's also low effort to play open world, unlike raids.  Let's also be honest, it's just because it's WvW and not PvE that the OP don't like it.

Edited January 9 by Chaba.5410

[Firefly.5982]

47 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Why is that desirable?  Players already complain about the roughly 15 hours a week for a time-gated resource and you make it sound like having something that incentives playing longer than 15 hours because there's no diminishing returns mechanism is better than the time-gate.  Game addicts rejoice!  There's a reason too that PvE map metas only give one "heros" chest per day.  Say, isn't that boost you mentioned only a once a day thing too?  Hrm...
 

At least compare apples.  The point was to compare acquisition on what are essentially both low effort play to illustrate what's being ignored.  Anet designed Obsidian Armor acquisition the way they did because it's also low effort to play open world, unlike raids.  Let's also be honest, it's just because it's WvW and not PvE that the OP don't like it.

SOME players complain about time gated stuff. SOME complain about farming stuff. SOME complain about content being to difficult. SOME complain about everything. And so on and so forth. OPs complaint was about how long it takes to get skirmish tickets - so in that regard, comparing the open world set (which is factually much faster) to the WvW set doesn't make sense.

However, the real issue is that if one wants two legendary rings, one has to do WvW.

PvP game modes aren't for everyone for various reasons and of course people who feel forced into it will complain if it then takes them forever. Plenty of PvPers don't want to do PvE for anything either and they shouldn't have to IMO. One can't create a multi game mode game, create end game gear, lock some behind some game mode and some behind another, and then act surprised that people complain. It shouldn't be this way .-.

Just let people make two Coalescences like we can make two Confluxes. And give each mode it's own way to obtain a full legendary set of gear. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Firefly.5982 said:

If legendaries were only a vanity item, I'd have exactly zero interest in them xD I am finally making legendaries now because I play various characters, each with various builds (pdps, cdps, zerg, roam, bunker, support), optimize and tweak as the game or my preferences change...I am tired of wasting money and time over and over and over again on new asc gear and it's very much worth it for me to make leggies and be done forever so I can focus entirely on just PLAYING.

I don't even use my legendary skins because I don't like them much...it's the functionality I am after :3

IMO stat swapping is a quality of life feature that should just be inherent to any game...but that's a discussion for another time 🤣

Spending thousands of gold upfront is never going to be good ROI, then either the 20-30 gold it takes to stat change, or the ~150 gold it takes to make a permanent set of ascended in conjunction with build templates which you will need with legendaries anyways  to if you want to be efficient with swapping. And this would be true even if you could get them instantly.

I mean the QoL does have some uses like saving bag space and it is quicker.  But I've noticed it tends to get very overrated, especially by people that haven't gotten it yet.

The only way building legendaries can really help you save gold is if you have a lot (like 20 characters or something), but depending on that distrubtion you'd have to definitely make every weight class and I am not really sure if time is really an issue to people that play that many characters regularly.

In practice, even as an avid template user-- I have all legendary armor and I have 10 equipment and build templates across 2 character of the same class-- I don't really think all the variations require that many stat changes. The game is basically solved at this point and a lot of it is really just an illusion of choice, at least in its current state. At the end of the day, I still had to make pve specific characters because wasting people's time by changing stuff around was still not acceptable.

And let's just say saving gold must be of the lowest priority. The game gives you more than enough through just dailies to stat swap even with ascended.

Edited January 9 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

59 minutes ago, Firefly.5982 said:

SOME players complain about time gated stuff. SOME complain about farming stuff. SOME complain about content being to difficult. SOME complain about everything. And so on and so forth. OPs complaint was about how long it takes to get skirmish tickets - so in that regard, comparing the open world set (which is factually much faster) to the WvW set doesn't make sense.

Which is why any comparison is futile.  Also why complaining about it is futile.  SOME will never be happy no matter how long it takes.  It's like those players that come here and complain about GoB acquisition despite the fact that you don't have to play as many hours anymore since the WvW bonus rewards provide instant progression.  And SOME will also ignore the additional skirmish tickets since added that tip you over the cap on pip rewards (from the new WvW weeklies + WvW bonus rewards).  Let's be accurate that we're not even talking about a hard time-gate anymore on weekly tickets and haven't been for months now.

Also, what do you mean factually faster to get the open world set of armor?  The set isn't even released yet.  What facts are you making up?  Given what we know about it so far, it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.

Edited January 9 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Firefly.5982 said:

However, the real issue is that if one wants two legendary rings, one has to do WvW.

That's not an issue unless you have a deep seated hatred of WvW, as can be understandable, in which case the problem is the player and their wants rather than the game.  The game's play-ability is not tied to gear.  This isn't WoW nor BDO nor New World.  No one NEEDs two legendary rings to be effective in the game.

Edited January 9 by Chaba.5410

[ArchonWing.9480]

13 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

And enough of that "Do you need it? If you don't, don't worry about" stuff. Because that's like me saying to you: "Do you need to play this game? If you don't, then don't play it at all"

Sorry for focusing on this but I see this get discussed a lot and since it is the core of a lot of arguments, I want to talk about it as it is not a good analogy.

The first thing is if you do retort like that, I would simply say "Yes, and so?"  I play the game out of my own will and can leave if I don't want to.  This is a perfectly valid choice, and either way, whether I play it or not, I have to accept the responsibility of my decisions. And I also expect the same of other people; if they don't like it, they can also leave.

When someone says they need something, they're implying that the alternative (not having something)  is unacceptable. Eg, people need food and money, because not having those things will have dire consequences. This is easily quantifiable.

In the less serious context of Gw2, many would concur you need at least exotic, and ideally some ascended gear, because there are significant and easily observable  deficiencies  that will result in your gameplay if you don't have them that will definitely affect the quality of the game, especially in one involving teammates. So while it is technically possible to play the game without it, the gameplay experience is made worse. Therefore, most players should have decent accessibility to these options and it should be more or less given out over time. (and it is)

Saving bag space and having a cleaner inventory is a bit harder to argue. But it is a bit subjective I guess.

 

 

Edited January 9 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

Still waiting for someone to suggest how to increase effort to lower the time...

[Chaba.5410]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Still waiting for someone to suggest how to increase effort to lower the time...

You have to actually join squads and their discords and run the builds they request and basically git gud.

[ArchonWing.9480]

What they could do is convert that useless 8 gold WvW weekly into just a challenge kinda thing. Like for every X enemies killed you'd fill up a bar and get tickets (capped at various amounts), or something like having a kills leaderboard and reaching a certain percentile means you get more tickets and other stuff.

However, there are certain problems with that. The first it of course favors zerging, but the second is mostly regardless of method, I feel like most of these tickets generated will go towards the people that need them the least.

I mean personally I wouldn't care if they increased the weekly cap either, but that's not going to solve the "I must work full time to get this legendary ASAP and then have nothing to do so I can complain about something else anyways" (And again, Anet does not balance around outliers that get everything at max speed)

Edited January 9 by ArchonWing.9480

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Still waiting for someone to suggest how to increase effort to lower the time...

Really simple, tone down Pip Ticket count (365 > 210?), double Ticket Counts from Weeklies, Quin/Decituple the Ticket gained from Gold Rank WvW events that give them.
Make Commitment Bronze instead of Wood, and DONT make Tickets frontloaded.
Doesn't have to be this way, but the principle should be to reduce Pip passive income.

[Solomon Darkfury.3729]

It's literally the most PASSIVE legendary currency generation in the game...

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Like for every X enemies killed you'd fill up a bar and get tickets (capped at various amounts), or something like having a kills leaderboard and reaching a certain percentile means you get more tickets and other stuff.

Let's GOOOOOOOO!  Who wants to trade kills with me?  Need them tickets.

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Really simple, tone down Pip Ticket count (365 > 210?), double Ticket Counts from Weeklies, Quin/Decituple the Ticket gained from Gold Rank WvW events that give them.
Make Commitment Bronze instead of Wood, and DONT make Tickets frontloaded.
Doesn't have to be this way, but the principle should be to reduce Pip passive income.

So I could get 20 tickets for capping 5 ruins?

Noice!

[ArchonWing.9480]

57 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Let's GOOOOOOOO!  Who wants to trade kills with me?  Need them tickets.

That's why I said there needs a cap, to minimize potential exploiting.

And any system can be gamed. If people are going out of their way to get a few tickets, I could care less about that.

Edited January 10 by ArchonWing.9480

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

So I could get 20 tickets for capping 5 ruins?

Noice!

Maybe that one can be made an exception not to increase, in which case that one shud be dropped to 5 and Tower Defense shud be 50, idk lol.
But you get the general idea.
We need to dis-incentivize afk camp flipping, thru only handing out tickets to active tasks.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

When someone says they need something, they're implying that the alternative (not having something)  is unacceptable

Yeah but no one said anything about "needing" anything.

It was a simple feedback pointing out that wvw skirmish ticket time-gates create much longer legendary completion times than the other legendary content in the game.

It was a simple statement. No need to read into it, assume things, or put words into anyone's mouth. For IE: I already have all my legendary armor for light medium heavy. I came here to vouch in a response that wvw skirmish time-gates are indeed too long to the point it's just unreasonable.

It's a simple statement.