we need more Relics!!!! (old 6 piece bonuses should return!)

[Liewec.2896]

C'mon Anet, give us back our builds that you broke in the expansion!

before the expansion i was playing a tanky warrior build using Rune of Aristocracy and mace for weakness spam

(the 6th bonus made applying weakness give you 5 might stacks) i also threw in skale venom for even more weakness,

basically i was spamming weakness which was in turn spamming might and healing (thanks to warrior traits that heal on might application), the sustain was awesome!

i logged in for the first time since the expansion today and it only took a few mobs before i realized that something was wrong, my weakness=might had been STOLEN.

so now i'm disappointing, and looking for a different build...

my golemancer would also like her golem back! (from rune of golemancy)

reminder, EXPANSIONS should not REMOVE CONTENT.

[Cyninja.2954]

I'm sure the developers will get right on your suggestion.

Now would you want them to first release the legendary relic before they rework the system yet again, or would you like your change after?

When is the ideal moment to throw away the workhours on this exactly?

Sarcasm aside, here are your actual choices:

- adapt to the new system and rework your builds 

- wait for more relics to get added, hoping that one of your old builds works again

- leave (with the added bonus of getting to still hang around the forums and whine/complain)

Now given MMORPGs usually will see occasionally balance changes and changes overall, the choices if interested with sticking with the game should be obvious. 

If you are burnt out or need a reason to take a break though, this might be one of those situations where you can find a good reason to do so.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

3 hours ago, Liewec.2896 said:

C'mon Anet, give us back our builds that you broke in the expansion!

before the expansion i was playing a tanky warrior build using Rune of Aristocracy and mace for weakness spam

(the 6th bonus made applying weakness give you 5 might stacks) i also threw in skale venom for even more weakness,

basically i was spamming weakness which was in turn spamming might and healing (thanks to warrior traits that heal on might application), the sustain was awesome!

i logged in for the first time since the expansion today and it only took a few mobs before i realized that something was wrong, my weakness=might had been STOLEN.

so now i'm disappointing, and looking for a different build...

my golemancer would also like her golem back! (from rune of golemancy)

reminder, EXPANSIONS should not REMOVE CONTENT.

Heya, I ran a similar PVE build before relics... (I ran aristocracy runes, and used skale venom in champ fights for extra might-heal), and I'm still running it... just slightly modified.

Without knowing the specifics of your build, here's what I suggest as changes to make it still work:

For traits: Str (take Forceful Greatsword and Might Makes Right), Tac (take Empower Allies and PS), and your choice of a third... though I'm partial to Arms since I now run cele sw/ma to take full advantage of might.  I also have an alternative build that runs commander's stats w/ Spellbreaker, and I'm pretty happy with that with the extra crit-damage heals w/ oh-dagger + Sun and Moon Style trait.  For food on harder fights, I use Fried Golden Dumplings (super cheap on TP and gives more might-heals + concentration).  My current runes are Zephyrite for cele build, and Fireworks for SB build.

Because of Mending Might from Tactics, you get more heals the more allies are around... if you're a solo player, that means it's good to use things like Fire Elemental Powder, Ogre Pet Whistle, Pocket Jade Armor, etc., when solo fighting the hard champ fights... it doesn't matter that the pets don't do much dam (though the might you give them will help), but you'll get the extra heals.  When you're around group events with a lot of players, or have friends you regularly play with, such summons aren't necessary.

I also have my oh-kitten button be the elite Battle Standard + Relic of the Zephyrite.... they combo well together imo to turn harder fights around.  Most of the time it sits unused.

I'm happy to share my full builds if you want, though I expect they'll be different enough from what you run... but it might give you ideas for how to modify what you've got going with mh mace.  Still, with might-healing and not taking the Defense traitline, I'm still able to face-tank most champs, while still doing satisfactory damage.

I hope that helps,

~EpWa

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[Biziut.3594]

Forums search tool says hello. Also ANet mentioned that they gonna work on getting back old rune effects with the next few upcomming updates. So I recommend, keeping them for that word, patience and not spamming the forums with multiple copies of the same topic every few days.

[Shuzuru.3651]

Hi,

First, while it happened at the same time, the rune/relic rework is unrelated to the expansion, at most it was probably simply a good occasion to do it.

Second, well, it's not like it was the first time the "aristocraty" changed, right now, it's like the 4th version of the bonus. It normal to happen while balancing, some thing appear, others disapear. They are not removing content, they are changing it. From what i know, nobody is claiming they are removing content every time they changed a skill or trait...

Right now, this bonus still exists, it's simply a different version, who may fit others build.

[Dibit.6259]

Anet reserves the right to change or alter the game as they please, its why balance updates happenfor example. Best you can do atm is adjust accordingly while waiting to see if any of the old rune bonuses return.

[Ashen.2907]

12 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

When is the ideal moment to throw away the workhours on this exactly?

In this particular case....back during the design phase.

[KindredPhoenyx.8976]

7 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Also ANet mentioned that they gonna work on getting back old rune effects with the next few upcomming updates

Oh heck they did? I've been living under a rock playing other stuff, I totally missed this.

[Biziut.3594]

4 minutes ago, KindredPhoenyx.8976 said:

Oh heck they did? I've been living under a rock playing other stuff, I totally missed this.

Yeah, in some blog post. Might've been easy to miss but it was mentiones. So in case they won't keep their word, there is something to throw at them. ^^

Altho it's too soon to assume anything. I really do hope they will bring old fun effects, even tho I haven't been using them too often personally. So for now I will go with trust. No reason to get upset beforehand imho.

[Liewec.2896]

18 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I'm sure the developers will get right on your suggestion.

When is the ideal moment to throw away the workhours on this exactly?

how about LAST YEAR when they made the decision to separate the 6 piece bonuses from gear.

you make it sound like i'm asking for the world, i'm simply asking not to lose content in an expansion.

[Omega.6801]

We need the golemancer golem back, just putting this out there, since I couldn't find another thread for it.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Omega.6801

[Fueki.4753]

They removed all the summoning Rune effects as well.

I don't understand why they thought it's a good idea to straight up delete these.

They didn't hurt their beloved melee boon pile in any way, shape or form.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Liewec.2896]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They removed all the summoning Rune effects as well.

I don't understand why they thought it's a good idea to straight up delete these.

They didn't hurt their beloved melee boon pile in any way, shape or form.

aye! I had a golemancer who i loved playing, she was asuran (obviously!) with the golemancy runes and golem elite,

last expansion getting mechanist was really cool for her! since jade bot is kinda like an extra golem.

this expansion pretty much destroyed the character since ti stole her main golem away.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Liewec.2896

[Shuzuru.3651]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They removed all the summoning Rune effects as well.

I don't understand why they thought it's a good idea to straight up delete these.

They didn't hurt their beloved melee boon pile in any way, shape or form.

Well, first, it's passive and they focused the rework on active effects.

Second, Anet has never liked entities who aren't link to skill or mechanic in general (may it be consumable, with rune or sigil).

Third, they may have looked at the data and see it may not have miss to anyone (except maybe a small vocal minority)

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

Perhaps they didn’t add things back in like golem so it can give them a chance to rework these types of summoning affects. For example, they could be working to introduce a summoning effect for the different races, or other types of summons. At the very least I see anet giving the old summoning effects back at some point since they are so popular and requested.

[Fueki.4753]

10 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

Well, first, it's passive and they focused the rework on active effects.

Second, Anet has never liked entities who aren't link to skill or mechanic in general (may it be consumable, with rune or sigil).

Third, they may have looked at the data and see it may not have miss to anyone (except maybe a small vocal minority)

If something didn't affect what they want to focus on, they should have just put it into the game and shove it to the side lines.

That way, the people who liked it, but do not like what they want to focus on, still have something to choose from.

As the system is right now, it literally is "take what we want you to take, or take nothing at all.", which is a less than suboptimal situation.

Them removing fun effects just screams "we want you to no longer have fun with that".

Edited December 22, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Shuzuru.3651]

22 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If something didn't affect what they want to focus on, they should have just put it into the game and shove it to the side lines.

No, you misunderstood what i said, i said they focused on having only active effects

So thing like summons, boon spiting while in combat, on struck effect, raw stat and stat conversion were not bring back into the system.

And with a few exception that were removed maybe for balance issue (Trapper runes, for exemple, would normally fit the requirement for relic, but from what heard, they were problematic in pvp/wvw, so i wouldn't be surprised they used this occasion to kick it out), what we got kinda fit what they announced.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

No, you misunderstood what i said, i said they focused on having only active effects

So thing like summons, boon spiting while in combat, on struck effect, raw stat and stat conversion were not bring back into the system.

And you misunderstood my point.

Even they don't care about working on the passive things, they need to just put them in, shove them to the sides and don't do anything else with them. Some people will be happier with that then what's being offered now.

There are players who do not gain any value out of how Relics currently are. This means, the only choices for them are to play with a relic they literally get no value from, to play with no Relic at all or to not play the game at all.

It shouldn't be hard to see that none of these options lead to a raise of enjoyment in playing the game.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

We actually have cool and interesting relics now and you're really going to complain about some might stacks 

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And you misunderstood my point.

Even they don't care about working on the passive things, they need to just put them in, shove them to the sides and don't do anything else with them. Some people will be happier with that then what's being offered now.

That doesn't make much sense, if the goal is for the relics to be more active (and that seems like a good goal), leaving passive ones without change is standing in the way of that. Unless you mean something along the lines of "just give me that passive 24/7 spawned golem while reducing its damage and cc to 0". Somehow I have a feeling that's not it though.

21 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

There are players who do not gain any value out of how Relics currently are. This means, the only choices for them are to play with a relic they literally get no value from, to play with no Relic at all or to not play the game at all.

I don't think that's correct at all. Which build exactly is supposed to get "no value from relics at all"? You can always increase dps, survivability or some utility by picking relic over playing without one.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

28 minutes ago, Elricht Kaltwind.8796 said:

We actually have cool and interesting relics now and you're really going to complain about some might stacks 

I don't fancy any of the Relics that basically just interact with boons and conditions, or just adjust numbers, when I had the options to have a Rock Dog eating the face of my target before, or a flock of crows pecking at said face.

24 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That doesn't make much sense, if the goal is for the relics to be more active (and that seems like a good goal), leaving passive ones without change is standing in the way of that. Unless you mean something along the lines of "just give me that passive 24/7 spawned golem while reducing its damage and cc to 0". Somehow I have a feeling that's not it though.

Just let people have their passive things that they always had before, if they want that instead of taking part in the active sludge.

Having passive effects available literally takes nothing away from the people who enjoy the active Relics.

They can always buff their beloved active Relics, if they feel they are not performing superior enough to passives.

24 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't think that's correct at all. Which build exactly is supposed to get "no value from relics at all"? You can always increase dps, survivability or some utility by picking relic over playing without one.

And these things are not things everyone wants. Some people do not care about effects like "do X to cleanse more conditions", "do Y to get more boons" or "do Z to make numbers go up".

Some people simply want their Golems, Rock Dogs by their sides and have their flocks of crows peck at their targets. And these people do not have any Relics to choose from that have much (if any) value to them.

It's not hard to understand that some people preferred character fantasy and/or visual things over numbers.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Just let people have their passive things that they always had before, if they want that instead of taking part in the active sludge.

Having passive effects available literally takes nothing away from the people who enjoy the active Relics.

They can always buff their beloved active Relics, if they feel they are not performing superior enough to passives.

If all you'll do is keep repeating "just let people have passive relics", I guess I'll do the same and revert to repeating "just don't give people passive relics". Hardly anything constructive about either of that.

18 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And these things are not things everyone wants. Some people do not care about effects like "do X to cleanse more conditions", "do Y to get more boons" or "do Z to make numbers go up".

I didn't say that's what you have to equip. I asked which build was supposed to gain nothing from relics to the point that they're all the same without equipping any and apparently you can't come up with one. So no, what you said is still false.
"But what if I don't like the theme?" -well, if that's the complaint here then "someone disliking the theme" was always a thing, not much changed about it now. That said, we know they'll keep adding new relics, so I'm pretty sure some of the themes will still get introduced.

18 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's not hard to understand that some people preferred character fantasy and/or visual things over numbers.

So if it's not about numbers or viability then what I wrote in the previous post ("just give me that passive 24/7 spawned golem while reducing its damage and cc to 0") should be a valid course of things, right? Because despite saying it wouldn't make any difference to anyone, what you're writing ("They can always buff their beloved active Relics, if they feel they are not performing superior enough to passives.") does make a difference because it introduces more power creep. Nerfing passive things to the point they're mostly theme anyways (which according to you seems to be the point) sounds like a better solution here if they're to be reintroduced.

[Ashantara.8731]

22 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Yeah, in some blog post. Might've been easy to miss but it was mentioned.

I don't recall them ever mentioning that they intend to bring back all the old 6th rune effects in the form of relics. All they said was that there will be more relics.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't recall them ever mentioning that they intend to bring back all the old 6th rune effects in the form of relics. All they said was that there will be more relics.

Yup, I think what they said was something along the lines of "some of the relics will be inspired by old rune effects", which says nothing about bringing old effects into the game. If anything, it tells us they won't all be brought back. They also specifically said they want them to be more active than the old rune bonus effects.

[Fueki.4753]

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If all you'll do is keep repeating "just let people have passive relics", I guess I'll do the same and revert to repeating "just don't give people passive relics".

But what do you have to gain from other players no longer being allowed to have the enjoyment they had before? Unless you get a certain glee about people no longer having their enjoyment, you get literally nothing out of it.

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I didn't say that's what you have to equip. I asked which build was supposed to gain nothing from relics to the point that they're all the same without equipping any and apparently you can't come up with one. So no, what you said is still false.

Builds will always find are Relic, but that's not my point. What's the point in someone's build numerically getting better, when said player doesn't care about numbers?

I could put a Relic of the Thief on all my characters' builds and numerically perform higher, but what is the point for me? It's just adjusting a number. It doesn't give me a flock of crows, a Rock Dog or any effect I enjoy.

So no, what I said is not false. Not everything is about builds and numbers. Someone who doesn't find value in number changes, will not find any value in a Relic that doesn't increase a number.

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That said, we know they'll keep adding new relics, so I'm pretty sure some of the themes will still get introduced.

Them being potentially added back eventually doesn't help with people being miffed and having a worse experience now.

29 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So if it's not about numbers or viability then what I wrote in the previous post ("just give me that passive 24/7 spawned golem while reducing its damage and cc to 0") should be a valid course of things, right? Because despite saying it wouldn't make any difference to anyone, what you're writing ("They can always buff their beloved active Relics, if they feel they are not performing superior enough to passives.") does make a difference because it introduces more power creep. Nerfing passive things to the point they're mostly theme anyways (which according to you seems to be the point) sounds like a better solution here if they're to be reintroduced.

Why I wouldn't mind that, it's still more work than just doing the bare minimum of just adding the existing effects back into the game.

Also, they game already is far beyond the point of worrying about more power creep, so adding more doesn't hurt the game anymore than it already has.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Fueki.4753