Nerf DH guardian traps.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Irrational.2871 said:

bruh just get 1 ranger that will disarm  traps with pet ez

Just get 1 decent herald/vindi cent/staff support to counter condi cata, due to higher clense output than its 1 fire stack spam, ez (Litterally was the case). But should every team be forced to run potentially multiple of that support (3x cata) just for condi cata? and does the fact rev support countered it HARD, mean condi cata was not opressive AF to other specs? Get outta here "bruh". Genuinely, you could set up dome, and just spam hammer auto attacks to counter 2 condi catas damage, but it doesnt changethe fact condi cata was kitten kitten, just like DH. Only diff here.. the playerbase left is basically garudians, necros and warriors + SB.. defending the kitten out of horrible mechanics becuase you all got use to crutches.

 

Last game I played was against an X top 50 power herald. He absolutely dominated the game, I was on power vindi, and just not fast enough to react to his skills. Perfect.. thats how it should go (although we can argue at g1 I should not be in the same game as a top 50, even if he was just placing). However.. if I was sitting on scourge, BS, something like that? I would have shut his burst down through crutch face tank mechanics.. not skill. We were both on specs that = death if you do not mitigate properly (he kited like any decent herald does, thats part of not melting for them). Can we get the game back to that? or shall we just keep encouraging bs like DHs, rushing points, never dodging , and pumping out rediculous low skill area denial. Its fking kitten that a game like this has such a high skill floor with the dodge system, and then Anet and the playerbase completely kitten all over that with specs that are increasingly being rewarding for just face tanking while spamming dps buttons. When I say face tank, I also mean the abundence of block/invuln abilitys still allow the player to attack and just spam dps keys, never touching the dodge key, until it is litterally a last resort after failing the kill.

 

At the same time, I don't wanne see the days back where you die in <2 seconds to a jump spec becuase you missed 1 dodge.. thats also bs. I got ganked by a jump mirage like that the other day, I had used dodges on another plater during a group fight, the guy I was attacking was on the retreat, the mirage jumped, I instantly swaped legend to use an evade skill but died before I could press it. It was litteraly a 2 second down>cleave. Specs like that are what pushed the game into lower skill face tanking bunkers.. power gank is part of the problem.

Edited January 7 by Flowki.7194

[Aeolus.3615]

Remove traps from DH and compensate with decent wards :D like we had in gw1, IDK why i always felt that DH is a class more for wards instead of traps... lol, IDK let me troll a bit since i believe DH should be used on a more tactical gameplay...

Add a trait to improve damage on targets inside ward, give a resource to DH called hunter instinct( or zealot instinct )that can increase bow damage OR make wards affects more  alies, the resource would work similiar to kalla fervor.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Banner_of_the_Unseen - Heal yourself and allies for X seconds for Y value, purge condition every 2 second and each purged condition heals extra 2 value.

ttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_Against_Foes  (no not confuse with chill :D chill could be stacked on top of this) 

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ward_of_Stability a ward pulsing stability, and resolution, pulses boons for 1sec every 4 sec and removes CC every 4 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ebon_Vanguard_Battle_Standard_of_Power. a ward adding more damage ouput to the affected alied inside a ward with a 1 or maybe 2 sec quickness on initial cast.

Edited January 7 by Aeolus.3615

[Kuya.6495]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Remove traps from DH and compensate with decent wards 😄

Yes because no one is complaining about dragon's maw and hammer 5

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:38 AM, Irrational.2871 said:

bruh just get 1 ranger that will disarm  traps with pet ez

Genious! Can't wait to see 'double bear trap disarmers' in ranked now.  Once both bears die, they afk---it's a lose lose for everyone!

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Trap numbers are fine. The problem is tons of nerfs to numbers and everything else over many years except for unblockable/unevadeable spam. So if you actually want to fix DH, don't nerf the trap damage. Instead do this:

Spear of Justice: No longer unblockable

Dragon's maw: No longer unevadeable

That's it. Any other change to DH is nerfing around problems instead of fixing the problem.

 

 

Edited January 9 by Master Ketsu.4569

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 hour ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Any other change to DH is nerfing around problems instead of fixing the problem.

 

Glad you said this when your proposed changes are to skills that have kept those functionalities since October 15, 2015 (HoT release :0) 

..

instead of you know, a certain trait change just a month ago pumping aegis on a 0 (zero, 👌, none) ICD and interacting with another certain relic

 

forums we need to get better at identifying strong interactions, ^ this is how classes get neutered 😶‍🌫️

Edited January 9 by vilesoldier.9826

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Trap numbers are fine. The problem is tons of nerfs to numbers and everything else over many years except for unblockable/unevadeable spam. So if you actually want to fix DH, don't nerf the trap damage. Instead do this:

Spear of Justice: No longer unblockable

Dragon's maw: No longer unevadeable

That's it. Any other change to DH is nerfing around problems instead of fixing the problem.

 

 

It would also be nice if traps collapsed if the DH gets out of 900 range or so. Its not hard to lay traps, and they do too much damage to be forcing split second dodges becuase of left overs from a previous cap/fight. This is a change I would make for newer players, its way too toxic. There are also some pretty toxic choke points like skyhammer exit if they lost it, its common for DHs to troll that, and run off. I get that they are traps, but that is such low risk game play, again toxic af for newer players. But then not just new players, im tired of having to be ready to dodge at any moment becuase a DH might have left a trap somewhere near or on a point. Its too much impact for such little effort.

Edited January 9 by Flowki.7194

[aranyics.8256]

I had problems with DH one or two years ago. I can handle them much more, I think it comes down to practice. I'm especially bad at reading animations, I have no idea how specific skillcasts look like, but when I'm trapped, I feel like sometimes the best thing to do is to not move at all and try to survive for some seconds until I'm free. Have some active defenses in your build. I have much more problems with Willbender, I still haven't figured out how to deal with them if I miss some dodges. They are more fearsome than DH.

[Sereath.1428]

A lot of people still don't understand that power is relative.
It doesn't matter if something has been mostly the same for years when everything around it has been nerfed.
Of course low risk/high reward things are going to become overplayed at most, if not all, skill levels.

Thats actually what happened with Renegade when everything around it got big nerfs in the revolting 2020 Feb patch. It suddenly stopped being a joke to then become a mobile bunker with burst and constant pressure. (Worst variant of Revenant by the way, gameplay wise, same issue I always have with low risk/high reward builds)
Suddenly Jalis is great, and eventually gets nerfed as well.

Edited January 9 by Sereath.1428

[Sahne.6950]

9 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Spear of Justice: No longer unblockable

Not saying its a bad idea, but I cant wait to Spear myself, because some BSW had Aegis on him.

What would happen if i pulled myself? 

Edited January 9 by Sahne.6950

[Vinny.7260]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Not saying its a bad idea, but I cant wait to Spear myself, because some BSW had Aegis on him.

What would happen if i pulled myself? 

I could see it doing what it does when GS5 gets reflected, just passively ticks the effects it has (but only the baseline ones).

Passively ticking burn and cripple would be icky. Impale but more annoying.

[vilesoldier.9826]

19 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

A lot of people still don't understand that power is relative.
It doesn't matter if something has been mostly the same for years when everything around it has been nerfed.
Of course low risk/high reward things are going to become overplayed at most, if not all, skill levels.

 

Gonna need you to be more specific here. Bc "when everything around it has been nerfed" as justification reads as intentionally vague.

 

Some specific questions (answer any as you please);

a) How would you characterize DH traps between Aug 22, 2023 (Trapper rune removed)** and Nov 28, 2023 (aegis buffs)?

b) Were there any builds during this time period specifically gatekeeping DH?

c) What about "DH unblockables & wards" made it ok when Trapper Rune existed but unacceptable when 0 ICD Hunter's Premonition gets introduced?

 

To me this feels like the classic 1-2 punch of Anet's nerfing history

#1 - Anet releases new patch that enables no-brainer and high-uptime defensive interactions

#2 - Playerbase uses this as an opportunity to call for nerfs to long-standing ok mechanics that a) they never learned to counter + b) does not address punch #1

 

**actually since ~May 2022 3s -> 1s trapper rune nerf if we're being realllllllllll

 

edit:

inb4 "you're confusing effectiveness and poor game design", first post the latest clip of you dodging a DH f1 or True Shot 👀

Edited January 10 by vilesoldier.9826

[Yerlock.4678]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:43 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

Such posts should state what you think about it is op while summing up same time its weak points and arguments why you think.

And give for both an explanation to the solution of these. This way both side gets more balanced. It won't leave it useless/weak "IF NERFED".

Try such posts instead, more useful/quality to what you meant. And if this can't be done or too hard to figure even what you think is OP about it, then it might be the player. This a general post for other posts that get made the same way. It would be better argue material and for arena net to see what is the problem. That way they have to try less to figure it out which costs them time too.

bump. they're not even super busted just really annoying to fight against.

[Yer.8096]

For me DH needs 2 things to be ok: traps couldnt give double damage (like being pulled and pushed, just once) and their cooldown should start AFTER being activated.

[Flowki.7194]

Its kinde hilarious seing so many vet players jumping on the DH bandwaggon to litterally make the game as toxic as possible.

[Shagie.7612]

i think there's a place and balance for area denial in a point based mode like conquest, but idk about traps being it considering they don't expire (effectively, anyways) until they activate

anyways i'm really jealous of how much damage longbow gets to do now from 1500

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Some evil mastermind in pvp discord proposed AoE reveals should reveal traps and I honestly need this, just because it would be cool.

[Spellhunter.9675]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Some evil mastermind in pvp discord proposed AoE reveals should reveal traps and I honestly need this, just because it would be cool.

If I remember correctly there are 5 aoe reveals. 2 of them noone is using. 1 is exlusive for herald, 1 is exlusive for DH (trap reveals traps LUL), 1 is exclusive for core necro.
There is another problem, for this anet needs to make traps being able to be hitted by skills. I doubt they actually can do it and even if they can, I wonder how many issues it will cause.

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 i mean the very obviously Counter Play against dh is eather 

A: Play something with unblockable in it

B: all his dmg and Defence get a very long cd so just let him waste his Skills while youre playing safe ^^

[Kuya.6495]

6 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Some evil mastermind in pvp discord proposed AoE reveals should reveal traps and I honestly need this, just because it would be cool.

That would be a cool interaction actually 

[Deadmoose.6594]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:29 PM, Kees Flodder.1269 said:

To OP.

It's not too OP. This is a bad luck issue just say gg and try to avoid it next time. With the way burst is this is the way the game goes.

[Flowki.7194]

On 1/16/2024 at 11:20 AM, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 i mean the very obviously Counter Play against dh is eather 

A: Play something with unblockable in it

B: all his dmg and Defence get a very long cd so just let him waste his Skills while youre playing safe ^^

Thats a bad argument. No spec in the game should have an "avoid me until I have used all my abilitys".. becuase if you avoid them, how do they use all their abilitys? Its just like my complaint with SPBs.. they get to own a 1v1 if the point is not big enough to kite them. Thats not a question of skill any more.. if I can kite you, you die or run away, but I risked nothing, thats toxic for the SPB. If I can't kite you, ... its an SPB.. block-stun-stability-block (ah now I have a window to attack) counter (ok now I have a window to attack) 0 0 0 0 (ok now I have a window to attack).. stun/blocks back on CD. These are not skill match ups.. simply a matter of mechanical range of rock paper scissor.

 

DH has too much ranged damage/threat, this is the issue in aproach.. becuase even if you bypass that and try to get into melee range, they then also have significant melee range threat. That is oppressive AF. I don't care how you frame it. Additionally, a DH who renters a group fight also has a HUGE impact that it shouldnt.. just by dropping a trap/maw over players engaged in melee range. The players have to react, all of them.. and ive litterally seen teams wipe just becuse the DH re-entered and jumped like that. There is no spec in the game that can do that, completely turn the tide of a group fight 2 seconds, just from 1 trap. There are other CCs.. for example I play with anguish on rev, you know how many times I can pull people across traps? necro can do it, as can specter and mesmer. Even garud can do it with bubble. Sorry but DH is just a horrible toxic spec from top to bottom, I have always thought it was, at any point since playing the game.

 

For balance though, ranger spike trap is also pretty fking toxic. I played it a fair bit, stand back at 12-1500 force firing and x2 barrage procs, risk free with an unblockable trap at your feet (and another on CD to use). I got jumped by a BS once, activated first trap, loaded him up with hunter, layed another trap, gave free sword 2+smoke3. Then track-evade skills.. litterally done 22k damage before the BS had a chance to attack (he ran away), and I still had all utility skills including immob+0 0 0 to swap back to an immune barrage ontop of myself. Just another example of a badly designed build that has too much high ranged+melee utility. Effectiveness is not the point here, if my team can't hold/group fight, that ranger build is a bit like chrono, you will melt under prolonged pressure. If they can hold... my god.. what a brainded way of getting 40% team damage, just spamming double barrage and LB2 on point from absolute safety, with the melee utility to make a single attacker, like a BS, run away.

 

 

Edited January 17 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well yea but also for Spellbraker that complain makes no realy sence. I mean all you need to actually kill a Spellbraker is playing around your blind access and avoid to get hit by their fullcounter and burst skills (which is also pretty easy to do since all of this skills get hella high telegraphed Animations). Dh and Spellbraker are both basicly noob filter classes. Cause they got Animations with big telegraphes that are good and fair to Dodge. Both are more or less melee dmging Style of classes (while dh got also lonbow Skill 2 and 5 to be fair). 

I mean i also do Not say "but this class need a nerf cause i don't know how to evoid to get killed by it"

Most classes i state as "too OP" are the once that Spam their abilitys and still get Kills. Just like nowdays Bladesworn/Deadeye/Scrapper do.  This 3 Kind of Builds are actually the worst of exactly this kind of "Spam tha stuff and win" gameplay ..... well more or less (scrapper at least is kinda more healthy one of these 3). 

[Flowki.7194]

https://app.gemoo.com/share/image-annotation/606309124551606272?codeId=v62LpO4eQN9pL&origin=screenshotuploader&card=606309122953576448

 

Read the team chat, its pretty funny tbf, and then check both DH stats. You call DH a "noob filter class", which is also funny, in that DH's of significantly lower skill consistantly out damage plat level players on power specs such as ele/rev/hollo. This essentially tells you that DH is overperforming, and even if it is by "farming newbs" (which I disagree with) it is toxic for the game. Read that team chat again.

[Kuya.6495]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

https://app.gemoo.com/share/image-annotation/606309124551606272?codeId=v62LpO4eQN9pL&origin=screenshotuploader&card=606309122953576448

 

Read the team chat, its pretty funny tbf, and then check both DH stats. You call DH a "noob filter class", which is also funny, in that DH's of significantly lower skill consistantly out damage plat level players on power specs such as ele/rev/hollo. This essentially tells you that DH is overperforming, and even if it is by "farming newbs" (which I disagree with) it is toxic for the game. Read that team chat again.

You're playing core rev?