The real tragedy of Rush Week

[Aerthan.1907]

As part of Rush Week and all the newbies rushing in Anet should have changed down state to force someone to pick you up vs instantly rez'ing everyone when someone dies.

Most normal tags are running private this week because the easiest way to lose fights is to have newbies hanging around that don't realize how bad it is when you die because it rez's the other team.

[SweetPotato.7456]

1 minute ago, Aerthan.1907 said:

As part of Rush Week and all the newbies rushing in Anet should have changed down state to force someone to pick you up vs instantly rez'ing everyone when someone dies.

Most normal tags are running private this week because the easiest way to lose fights is to have newbies hanging around that don't realize how bad it is when you die because it rez's the other team.

This isn't true at all, on my noob account rush week help me level up, and the commander is a public tag, and we  are farming ABBA, oh so many bags.

[RisingDawn.5796]

The skill lag tonight was a tragedy too.

Edited January 10 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[Mell.4873]

I have seen all sorts. What is more likely is small groups that are bag farming outside the Keep don't want new players allowing the enemies to  rez from them dying. 

Honestly I have seen some real positive attempt to teach people to deal with boon balls. Boon corrupting and stealing, advice was really good when I was on. 

Edited January 10 by Mell.4873

[Thomas.2564]

7 hours ago, Aerthan.1907 said:

instantly rez'ing everyone when someone dies.

Ermm.. 1 death = 1 res. 

It's not like the good old days, where 1 person could rally basically every single downed player(or was is it 5?) 

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Aerthan.1907 said:

As part of Rush Week and all the newbies rushing in Anet should have changed down state to force someone to pick you up vs instantly rez'ing everyone when someone dies.

Most normal tags are running private this week because the easiest way to lose fights is to have newbies hanging around that don't realize how bad it is when you die because it rez's the other team.

Downstate is, and should be a different event. There could also be other downstate events where we might test various aspects of downstate and how it impacts the experience to be understand how downstate impacts various types of play. Combining downstate and the WR  beta, no I would not mix those, IMO.

[disForm.2837]

Both sides have new players, so it evens out. 

The real tragedy is how those new players are being fed to the WvW wolves. Fractals have natural progression, raids have strikes as entry level (arguably but that's the intent), sPvP have ranks. WvW? "Nah, go there and do your best".

On my best day, I am an average fighter. When the rush started me and another roamer killed 5 new players. CC, combo, CC, clean downstate. No movement, no defensive skills, nothing. Not even talking about new players blob vs comped groups.

Honestly, I think these events alienate new WvW players. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

21 hours ago, Aerthan.1907 said:

Most normal tags are running private this week because the easiest way to lose fights is to have newbies hanging around that don't realize how bad it is when you die because it rez's the other team.

Well, if they don't know a single player can't  res the whole team by dying , I think they are all new, so that's fine.

47 minutes ago, disForm.2837 said:

Both sides have new players, so it evens out. 

The real tragedy is how those new players are being fed to the WvW wolves. Fractals have natural progression, raids have strikes as entry level (arguably but that's the intent), sPvP have ranks. WvW? "Nah, go there and do your best".

On my best day, I am an average fighter. When the rush started me and another roamer killed 5 new players. CC, combo, CC, clean downstate. No movement, no defensive skills, nothing. Not even talking about new players blob vs comped groups.

Honestly, I think these events alienate new WvW players. 

Everyone has to start somewhere. Most people are also going to be dying a lot in fractals and raids a lot when they first start out and dying ultimately means nothing anyways. Being afraid of dying is not really a good way to play this game. One would never learn and improve. The point of "progging" in MMOs is to acquire skills and knowledge that take precedence over short-term rewards. Granted, there is a strong culture against these things in this game at times but this is also why players seem to not be able to do anything because they give up after a few tries (or not even)

At least in WvW, if you manage to tag the enemy you'll still get credit if your team succeeds in killing someone.  There is basically no partial credit when it comes to raids or fractals and if you lack the social skills to communicate and find the right groups, you'll get gatekept and tossed out quickly. Nobody can toss you out of WvW no matter how many times you fail.

Granted, it does require a little trial and error. Like if one keeps dying to the same enemies over and over again, they could consider moving to another path to evade them. But considering  many WvW "veterans" do not understand this, this is why it is necessary to learn.

For example, once we recieved a message from someone claiming they were getting "spawn camped at Ogrewatch Tower" because they kept dying trying to get to SMC. Now there are other paths to SMC but they just get angry when told to take another path and insisting on fighting the other enemies. The extra sad part was upon further observation: 1.) This player was clearly not new in the way they moved 2.) They decided to add onto this that they were much more skilled then the rest of map chat. 3.) And saddest of all they were on a Willbender, meaning they could have pressed 4 buttons and nobody would have been able to chase them down.

This is an example of how it is stubbornness, rather than lack of skill or experience, that causes people to fail and get "farmed"

Now you could ask me "well why didn't you help kill the enemies?" Well, we did. But that doesn't teach people anything.

What I am saying is that there are a lot of experienced players in this game mode that doesn't actually mean anything, because while they have developed a rigid and ultimately mediocre style that works well against the uninitiated, they have also developed bad habits and weaknesses that can be mercilessly exploited even by newer players even with a large gap in knowledge, mechanical skill, and gear with a bit of creative thinking and effort.  As some people have said, they are probably wannabe progamers that couldn't cut it anywhere else.

 

But of course this isn't going to happen immediately. What I am saying is that if one is receptive to learning, then they will at least be on par of these players much more quickly then one would think as long as they avoid the same bad habits.

 

Also Google's been around for like 25 years. At this point, it's the player's responsibility to search for appropriate builds and read a bit the content before joining. This should be considered the baseline for any content, and if one doesn't, they should accept the responsibility for their results and prepare to get gatekept.

This does not mean that someone should immediately come into game mode and start doing well. Now the NPE for WvW indeed is kinda garbage and the balance is bad, so things could be better. But it doesn't change the fact that there is going to be a learning curve.

 

Edited January 11 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

40 minutes ago, disForm.2837 said:

WvW? "Nah, go there and do your best".

Which is why some of the WvW community have created guides and videos over the years to help fill in that gap.

Check out Sheff's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Oo3M86NV0ddYvQglxtKMQ

Edited January 11 by Chaba.5410

[TheGrimm.5624]

33 minutes ago, disForm.2837 said:

Both sides have new players, so it evens out. 

The real tragedy is how those new players are being fed to the WvW wolves. Fractals have natural progression, raids have strikes as entry level (arguably but that's the intent), sPvP have ranks. WvW? "Nah, go there and do your best".

On my best day, I am an average fighter. When the rush started me and another roamer killed 5 new players. CC, combo, CC, clean downstate. No movement, no defensive skills, nothing. Not even talking about new players blob vs comped groups.

Honestly, I think these events alienate new WvW players. 

Coming to WvW the day after Warhammer shutoff the lights on RvR, a group of us entered at the lowest level in white gear and got smashed. We were used to the concept of you can skip all PvE and just level in RvR. WvW does provide all you need but its not that easy to level up in, but can still be done but its rough. Had a newer guildmate that was informed of this and did this same thing recently. Rush weeks draw in players that might already be full level and at lease exotic gear if not more. Its end game since players may create a more challenging fight than they are used to in NPC mechanics. But just like raids or fractals, they can learn the mechanics.

On a side note sPvP used to be a better training ground for WvW when there were more options for gearsets, but it's still a reasonable one. I would recommend to players that are looking at WvW and wanted to get a leg up to practice there. To that end I also would never tell a WvW player to assume a players skill based on rank since all of that time might have been spent zerg surfing versus fighting solo.

As far as roamers and targets, mileage varies roamer to roamer and day to day, so I wouldn't discourage new players with that logic. 

 

[CafPow.1542]

5 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

For example, once we recieved a message from someone claiming they were getting "spawn camped at Ogrewatch Tower" because they kept dying trying to get to SMC. Now there are other paths to SMC but they just get angry when told to take another path and insisting on fighting the other enemies. The extra sad part was upon further observation: 1.) This player was clearly not new in the way they moved 2.) They decided to add onto this that they were much more skilled then the rest of map chat. 3.) And saddest of all they were on a Willbender, meaning they could have pressed 4 buttons and nobody would have been able to chase them down.

Almost could be me. I‘d try do kill that „spawn“-camper (it’s not really a spawn there isn’t it) and I’d try it 3-4 times.

i‘d also call it in chat so others don’t get camped there and maybe we could kill the other guy (prolly a thief and i hate those).

 

but i would never blame others for my own mistake of not being able to walk the anza-way lol.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Almost could be me. I‘d try do kill that „spawn“-camper (it’s not really a spawn there isn’t it) and I’d try it 3-4 times.

Yea that was the weirdest thing since it's not near spawn at all lol.

Nothing wrong with challenging yourself and taking difficult fights of course.  Dying doesn't cost anything and that's also a very valid way to improve.  And definitely nothing wrong with communicating in chat; most would appreciate it and would probably clean the area up.

Edited January 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[CafPow.1542]

19 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea that was the weirdest thing since it's not near spawn at all lol.

Nothing wrong with challenging yourself and taking difficult fights of course.  Dying doesn't cost anything and that's also a very valid way to improve.  And definitely nothing wrong with communicating in chat; most would appreciate it and would probably clean the area up.

Yeah but there’s a difference between informing the teammates about a ganked spot and flooding the kitten chat with salt like the world is ending haha.

[LSD.4673]

The real tragedy is the guys who are whinging about new players joining just for the rush event. Besides ANet's total lack of attention, it's lack of players that's harmed WvW. So we get a boatload and people cry about it.

[Widebody.5071]

On 1/10/2024 at 3:26 PM, Aerthan.1907 said:

As part of Rush Week and all the newbies rushing in Anet should have changed down state to force someone to pick you up vs instantly rez'ing everyone when someone dies.

Most normal tags are running private this week because the easiest way to lose fights is to have newbies hanging around that don't realize how bad it is when you die because it rez's the other team.

Run warrior they have mass rez.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Yeah but there’s a difference between informing the teammates about a ganked spot and flooding the kitten chat with salt like the world is ending haha.

lol, if we get to cross paths, send a wave and we can find some mischief or get run over, accidents happen and mistakes can be made. 🙂 

[CafPow.1542]

4 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, if we get to cross paths, send a wave and we can find some mischief or get run over, accidents happen and mistakes can be made. 🙂 

I never watch the names but I’m almost always in for stuff. You will prolly just delete a noob somewhere and think „lol“ but that was maybe me 😄

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I never watch the names but I’m almost always in for stuff. You will prolly just delete a noob somewhere and think „lol“ but that was maybe me 😄

Forum War 2 leads to other GW2 friends across servers. Which I admit is where linked servers helped. Gave more peeps chances to connect and enjoy. I enjoy my server so links have been a good way to banter and have fun with others outside of it. What the WR brings, no clue, but the next beta is one day away. So if you see a Charr with a sloth on their back, send a wave and I will try and do the same. In either case, may you find good hunting!

[CafPow.1542]

I will. I assume you play in eu? Then chances exist.

i normally play busty females with not a lot of clothing.

only to distract enemies ofc. Giving the word „celestial“ a whole new meaning.

[TheIceman.1039]

12 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Which is why some of the WvW community have created guides and videos over the years to help fill in that gap.

Check out Sheff's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Oo3M86NV0ddYvQglxtKMQ

Or check https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW_Guides

[TheGrimm.5624]

25 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I will. I assume you play in eu? Then chances exist.

i normally play busty females with not a lot of clothing.

only to distract enemies ofc. Giving the word „celestial“ a whole new meaning.

lol, I am NA. I may need to boost my second account that I haven't been on in years so that I can come and visit the EU servers now that I have connection that might allow it.  

[CafPow.1542]

3 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol, I am NA. I may need to boost my second account that I haven't been on in years so that I can come and visit the EU servers now that I have connection that might allow it.  

If you do that and the ping doesn’t screw you harder than a 13 year old deadeye, let me know ^^

[TheIceman.1039]

3 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

The real tragedy is the guys who are whinging about new players joining just for the rush event. Besides ANet's total lack of attention, it's lack of players that's harmed WvW. So we get a boatload and people cry about it.

Yes, attracting new players is essential for the survival of any game mode. WvW is no exception. In fact, many other games have died out because they failed to attract new players. Veterans may enjoy the game without new players, but eventually, the lack of new blood will lead to stagnation and boredom.

Anet has been making some good changes to WvW lately, and I believe that if they continue in this direction, they will be able to attract more players. There are always going to be those who complain about everything, but I believe that Anet is on the right track.

Here are some specific things that Anet (WvW Devs) can do to attract more players to WvW:

Reduce the learning curve. WvW can be a very daunting game for new players, especially if they are not familiar with other PvP modes. Anet could make it easier for new players to learn the game by providing better tutorials and guides.

Make it more rewarding. Right now, WvW is not as rewarding as other game modes, such as PvE and PvP. Anet could make it more rewarding by giving players better rewards for playing WvW, such as new skins, titles & more materials. (Also give veterans more titles, God of war is outdated)

Make it more social. WvW can be a very social game, but it can also be very lonely. Anet could make it more social by providing better tools for communication and teamwork. (Squad/party own voice tools, Special keybinds for typemanders.)

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

The real tragedy is the guys who are whinging about new players joining just for the rush event. Besides ANet's total lack of attention, it's lack of players that's harmed WvW. So we get a boatload and people cry about it.

Elitism is pretty sad sometimes especially when it comes from people that don't even understand how the game works. Yes, rallybotting sucks but the 10 new players that died 3 seconds into the fight did not rally most enemies!

People have a tendency to be very shortsighted. That is, they are fine with bad systems as long as it does not impact them immediately. Because to them, that is not their problem. So when people actually play the game mode, they get upset because of queues or whatnot and act toxic or whatnot and drive people away and then suddenly "ded game mode". Well you know what? Maybe it was their problem all along. They cannot rub 2 brain cells together to realize that a bit of minor inconvenience to them is good for the long term health of the game. This is why I say they have pretty much engaged in a decade of mediocrity and just try to bully new people who don't know the game mode yet because that's all they can do.

And I say this even as someone that writes things that can be considered gatekeeping. I don't care for fly by night players here for the rewards and leech but at the same time why hate on players for trying something new? And even if they are just here for rewards, maybe if the game mode was actually decent for them, they'd stay.  One should always welcome those that come in willing to learn instead of "gtfo nub, how dare you not have 10 years of experience from the 30 minutes of gameplay you had" when many would not fulfill their own ridiculous requirements.

Edited January 12 by ArchonWing.9480

[urd.8306]

The real tragedy is that new players get the right impression of the game mode, when they try to follow a zerg, find a 2+ thief gank group and never see anything else than that.