How to solve boonballs/monoblobs

[Oslaf Beinir.5842]

Give me back my boon removals and corruptions then we talk. oh wait that is the opposite of what Anet wants, nvm rip.

[bq pd.2148]

11 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The boons are indeed the biggest issue as you say, so nerfing the output of boons should be the first step imo. Nerf Ferocity, nerf might down to 10 stacks maximum. Nerf healing power so you need more of it to be effective and require high concentration to be able to maintain boons 100% of the time. Just some ideas. I think that playing a group and being a boonball should come with some rewards but not at a ridiculous level as it is now.

with might and ferocity nerfed, you wont be dealing much damage anymore aside from conditions, however AoE cleanse was not on your list of nerfs -> nothing would change, only the damage/heal numbers get a bit smaller which is safer for the ball as it then requires more players/coordination to spike anyone of them down.

[Aeolus.3615]

14 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The boons are indeed the biggest issue as you say, so nerfing the output of boons should be the first step imo. Nerf Ferocity, nerf might down to 10 stacks maximum. Nerf healing power so you need more of it to be effective and require high concentration to be able to maintain boons 100% of the time. Just some ideas. I think that playing a group and being a boonball should come with some rewards but not at a ridiculous level as it is now. 

Also requiring boons to have high concentration to maintain will also make celestial stats less powerful.

And maybe, here's thinking outside of the box, maybe do not allow groups bigger than a 10-man squad.

1- Remove minstrell from game, celesttial has more total stats than the other stats so a cut half of the boon duration and condition duration  and they still give more total stats than other stats but they are more "balanced".

2- See wich boons are still problematic and see if some need a direct strip dedicated effect.

These changes alone would impact game to be more balanced... and would stress up groups  more since they had to relly more on active support and if they wanted strong heals they would have to go for low boon duration stats...

Edited January 24 by Aeolus.3615

[Gehenna.3625]

21 hours ago, Pluton.7364 said:

Actually i use celestial to get 100% boon duration😃😅 

just slap 10% boon duration sigil and runes and you are golden

Which is exactly my point and why I suggest needing more concentration to do that. Celestial shouldn't be getting you 100% boon duration. I know you add a sigil and runes but even then it shouldn't be enough. Why would anyone get higher concentration if you can do that? It doesn't make sense. It makes stats with high concentration pointless and there's no trade-off for not having high concentration.

[CafPow.1542]

9 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Which is exactly my point and why I suggest needing more concentration to do that. Celestial shouldn't be getting you 100% boon duration. I know you add a sigil and runes but even then it shouldn't be enough. Why would anyone get higher concentration if you can do that? It doesn't make sense. It makes stats with high concentration pointless and there's no trade-off for not having high concentration.

Don’t need sigils / runes.

i run an alac-hscourge for fractals. Complete cele and that’s all the boonduration i need.

okay… in the case of the scourge it may be fair cause i apply alac when i apply barrier and i have 7 skills that do that.

but generally yes, 100% boons shouldn’t be a thing. Not for cele but i think, not in general at all. No boon should be up 100% across all gamemmodes.

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Don’t need sigils / runes.

i run an alac-hscourge for fractals. Complete cele and that’s all the boonduration i need.

okay… in the case of the scourge it may be fair cause i apply alac when i apply barrier and i have 7 skills that do that.

but generally yes, 100% boons shouldn’t be a thing. Not for cele but i think, not in general at all. No boon should be up 100% across all gamemmodes.

Might,  fury, could be stated as basic boons those could be the ones with more appliance and stability, quickness, resolution and alacrity should be the boons more difficult stacking  and the builds that apply longer alacrity and quickness should be on stats more towards dps with boon duration, this would balance group towards make these critical boons more squishier and relly more on the team, rather have all and every one except reappers in minstrell... it is just stupid design and balance.

Groups nowadays have perma resolution+ stability it is just stupid the current balance that this developers are doing...  all in the name of the pve chipmunks.

remove boon duration support  tanky stats ._. is the only way to balance.

This mentality of making every class give every boon is creating more unbalance than anything else...

 

 

Edited January 25 by Aeolus.3615

[Lazze.9870]

21 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

These changes alone would impact game to be more balanced...

Meh. Skill and coordination still matter when you have minstrel stats and high boon uptimes.

Scourge is the number one problem by far. It's not even a discussuion. It's by far the build that most enable larger group to tank coordinated boombs, rez back up, face tank a whole lot more because of barrier and simply W on you because they're 15+ more than you.

 

Edited January 25 by Lazze.9870

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Meh. Skill and coordination still matter when you have minstrel stats and high boon uptimes.

Scourge is the number one problem by far. It's not even a discussuion. It's by far the build that most enable larger group to tank coordinated boombs, rez back up, face tank a whole lot more because of barrier and simply W on you because they're 15+ more than you.

 

That is true.. the group with more minstrel supports  and scourges will win been there even wining with a much smaller group with more scourges and few FB's... that is a fact. But scourge was always a problem for balance.

Wait till u see revenants with almost 2k barriers on 3rd auto and providing every 8 sec 9k-10k barrier aoe...  in wvw altough will be harder since contrary to scourge that can cast it out of the box the rev's needs to built it and be in combat, and with the vindicator perma dodge build that it still avaliable builting more barrier for the wand skill 2 if i recall.. LOL ive actually know some vindicators that once the wand barrier happens.. all they need is to refresh the aoe barrier skill to keep it perma for the team.

Mine with half of the healing power i was providing in pve was  on perma 10k barrier, on wvw was way harder to build barrier to those levels, but in zerg gameplay i bet it is easy to built those lvl's of aoe barrier..

Vindicator aplies more barrier :) will be broken as f* add it with the barrier from other specs and scourges... on a blob content and tell me wich smaller groups can face a blob or queue.

IMO 1st change is remove stats called misntrell.

 

 

Edited January 25 by Aeolus.3615

[Yaki.9563]

17 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Which is exactly my point and why I suggest needing more concentration to do that. Celestial shouldn't be getting you 100% boon duration. I know you add a sigil and runes but even then it shouldn't be enough. Why would anyone get higher concentration if you can do that? It doesn't make sense. It makes stats with high concentration pointless and there's no trade-off for not having high concentration.

Celestial gives like 45% boon duration. It's the runes and sigils and traits that give more. The runes and sigils especially are overtuned.

[Pluton.7364]

8 hours ago, Yaki.9563 said:

Celestial gives like 45% boon duration. It's the runes and sigils and traits that give more. The runes and sigils especially are overtuned.

Put in relic and you dont need concentration on gear😃😃😃

[loonatic.1689]

Remove the target cap, and watch single players wipe out entire enemy zergs the second they decide to stack. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

3 hours ago, loonatic.1689 said:

Remove the target cap, and watch single players wipe out entire enemy zergs the second they decide to stack. 

I'd love that, but in that second they decide to attack, the game will freeze for 20 seconds straight. Their servers cant even handle this new awful support chrono/scourge meta... can't keep up with all the clones/shades calculations and and the boons and barrier applications. Would only get worse with a higher target caps for damage...It's honestly the best solution though. 

I always wished they would have been able to code in higher target caps for damage to any server that has the outnumbered buff, since there should be less to calculate on that map. Would make the outnumbered buff good again, and give defenders a chance vs the map queue ktrains. It'd probably get abused in some way though, or knowing Anet, be bugged for 4 years and you'd be able to apply the effect whenever you want through flashing a tonic...kek

[SteelEclipse.3614]

No, the only solution is quitting the game ahahaha 🤣

[Cuks.8241]

On 1/24/2024 at 12:10 AM, Gehenna.3625 said:

And maybe, here's thinking outside of the box, maybe do not allow groups bigger than a 10-man squad.

This actually does nothing but a little annoyance.

First of all it's a massive pvp mode. Grouping should not be discouraged. We have small scale pvp for well, small scale pvp.

And secondly it's what groups already do when they go over 50. Just form a second squad. They are all on the same discord so nothing really changes from commanding and communication perspective. Boons and healing are already 5 man so a little different spill over between squads doesn't really change much. So the only difference is you see green plates and minimap dots instead of blue for some of the mates.

[Chaba.5410]

Before HoT, no one used squads. We still had blobs.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:03 AM, CafPow.1542 said:

Don’t need sigils / runes.

i run an alac-hscourge for fractals. Complete cele and that’s all the boonduration i need.

okay… in the case of the scourge it may be fair cause i apply alac when i apply barrier and i have 7 skills that do that.

but generally yes, 100% boons shouldn’t be a thing. Not for cele but i think, not in general at all. No boon should be up 100% across all gamemmodes.

Yeah because the other person mentioned them I wanted to include them but your example is exactly what's wrong. There's only one prefix that has Concentration as a major stat iirc and that's Diviner's. And the rest of them it's all a minor stat. That shows you were the problem lies becaue concentration is a really powerful stat but the stat combinations do not reflect that.

And I agree with your point that boons shouldn't be able to be kept up 100% of the time, but considering the current paradigm where it's part of the game there should be a trade off in place between high concentration and low(er) concentration but as it stands having high concentration is just a waste of stat points.

Edited January 26 by Gehenna.3625

[CafPow.1542]

1 minute ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yeah because the other person mentioned them I wanted to include them but your example is exactly what's wrong. There's only one prefix that has Concentration as a major stat iirc and that's Diviner's. And the rest of them it's all a minor stat. That shows you were the problem lies becaue concentration is a really powerful stat but the stat combinations do not reflect that.

And I agree with boons shouldn't be able to be kept up 100% of the time, but considering the current paradigm where it's part of the game there should be a trade off in place between high concentration and low(er) concentration but as it stands having high concentration is just a waste of stat points.

Yeah i‘m afraid i have to agree hehe.

it would be more of a challenge if boons are not up 100%. I see it when playing my ele. Having magnetic aura is super useful against projectiles but i never can have it up a 100%. That would be simply op.

and i see this issue with every boon.

the only way, a 5man Grp should be able to have 100% boon uptime for 5 people (aka each other) would be if they are full support (aka 0 damage)

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Yeah i‘m afraid i have to agree hehe.

it would be more of a challenge if boons are not up 100%. I see it when playing my ele. Having magnetic aura is super useful against projectiles but i never can have it up a 100%. That would be simply op.

and i see this issue with every boon.

the only way, a 5man Grp should be able to have 100% boon uptime for 5 people (aka each other) would be if they are full support (aka 0 damage)

Yep, we're in full agreement... imagine that on a game forum 😉

[CafPow.1542]

8 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yep, we're in full agreement... imagine that on a game forum 😉

Impossible. Let’s fight!

you‘re wrong!!11

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Impossible. Let’s fight!

you‘re wrong!!11

No, no, no... YOU'RE wrong!

But back on topic. The whole reason why I don't play zergs in WvW nor raids/strikes is the boon system. I just don't enjoy the chore of keeping up boons just to create a new baseline. And the need to constantly huddle up for it. It's just silly to me. I've played other MMOs where there were buffs/boons that you just turn on and they work for 30 mins or where you have to time your buffs/boons to use them most effectively. Luckily GW2 still holds my interest with OW content and WvW, but I always felt like the boon system was, well, bs basically.

[Lazze.9870]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:17 PM, Aeolus.3615 said:

IMO 1st change is remove stats called misntrell.

Not the solution.

Throw Scourge in the garbage bin (seriously, hard nerf that kitten, necro has other zerg options for wvw anyway) and make skills that share barrier have abysmal scaling in wvw. Barrier should only be complimentary to healing, but right now coordinated groups often have more damage absorbed by scourge barrier than the healing they get from vindi/druid.

Buff damage for builds that currently can't compete with Beserker and holo if you want dps variety.

If they're gonna remove a stat set, it should be celestial. That garbage is ruining what little there is left of roaming.

Edited January 27 by Lazze.9870

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Not the solution.

Throw Scourge in the garbage bin (seriously, hard nerf that kitten, necro has other zerg options for wvw anyway) and make skills that share barrier have abysmal scaling in wvw. Barrier should only be complimentary to healing, but right now coordinated groups often have more damage absorbed by scourge barrier than the healing they get from vindi/druid.

Buff damage for builds that currently can't compete with Beserker and holo if you want dps variety.

If they're gonna remove a stat set, it should be celestial. That garbage is ruining what little there is left of roaming.

Hhummm I won't denny scourge isn't a problem with many scourges on my side ive have wiped larger groups with less scourges  that is clearly a design problem, well scourge could give barrier to minions only with a few small changes, minions on this game are trash compared with gw1 minions, in gw1 AB minions worked great here's in gw2 they are awfully designed and even their sprite and model  are horrible, gw2 players need a decent pvp able minions builds tho.

What if besides minstrel being removed, scourge improves minions gameplay punishing and terrorising players, a minionmancer  built for pvp  in mind like we had in gw1

 

I rather have  players in celestial  stats but with celestial stats providing as much stats others do, if u count celestial stats up they provide more total than any other stats that is the celestial problem, boon duration and condi duration needs to be removed again from the stats.

 

EDIT:  Remove boon duration and condi duration from celestial , and make minstrels be like celestial but remove  power and condition stats  but give boon and condi duration.
🙂

Edited January 27 by Aeolus.3615

[Dawdler.8521]

22 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Yeah i‘m afraid i have to agree hehe.

it would be more of a challenge if boons are not up 100%. I see it when playing my ele. Having magnetic aura is super useful against projectiles but i never can have it up a 100%. That would be simply op.

and i see this issue with every boon.

the only way, a 5man Grp should be able to have 100% boon uptime for 5 people (aka each other) would be if they are full support (aka 0 damage)

Which is exactly why WvW is a mess. Because 4+dps is 90% uptime. The argument that only full groups should reach 100% is pointless. This is why boonballs exist.

[CafPow.1542]

22 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which is exactly why WvW is a mess. Because 4+dps is 90% uptime. The argument that only full groups should reach 100% is pointless. This is why boonballs exist.

I meant only full grps with full supports should be able.

which would be pointless since a full support grp shouldn’t deal heavy damage.

[phalaris.5134]

Play against INDO and you will see how to bust balls!