How to solve boonballs/monoblobs

[Pluton.7364]

Simple… you think you can stand in 60man blob healing each other? No… you are all dead

Edited January 23 by Pluton.7364

[Zepoolpe.9217]

That skill is just the beginning: there is an armor set that makes an explosion when you kill someone: with the correct build it's just a chain reaction

Edited January 23 by Zepoolpe.9217

[XenesisII.1540]

The gw2 version would have a 5 target cap. 😏

[Dawdler.8521]

54 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

The gw2 version would have a 5 target cap. 😏

It would also do 500 damage in PvE and 150 damage in WvW.

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, Pluton.7364 said:

Simple… you think you can stand in 60man blob healing each other? No… you are all dead

This would definitely be effective. But GW2 has a problem, because it's overall designed for squads to play tight. Boons, healing, cleansing, other effects. Not only in wvw, also in pve.  You also have insane visual clutter as soon as you have more than 5 players and kitten UI that is barely readable. So you can't really expect from players to see such spell landed and spread for it's effect only. And if you make players play as a cloud instead of a ball you just threw away all your mechanics, because everything works in that aoe 180-600 radius, there is no friendly player targeting. And if it would be a cleansable effect/condi everyone would just pack as much cleanse as possible.

I don't think there is a healthy way to break the ball in this game. But they could do something about the boons which are just insanely strong compared to most games.

Even a 5 target cap spell like that, that actually kills at 5 targets would be insanely effective.

Edited January 23 by Cuks.8241

[Sandzibar.5134]

24 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

It would also do 500 damage in PvE and 150 damage in WvW.

It would also be a projectile

[DarkFlopy.8197]

1 hour ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

It would also be a projectile

With a weird 450 range when you use it but 1200 range when being reflected.

[Zepoolpe.9217]

1 hour ago, Cuks.8241 said:

This would definitely be effective. But GW2 has a problem, because it's overall designed for squads to play tight. Boons, healing, cleansing, other effects. Not only in wvw, also in pve.  You also have insane visual clutter as soon as you have more than 5 players and kitten UI that is barely readable. So you can't really expect from players to see such spell landed and spread for it's effect only. And if you make players play as a cloud instead of a ball you just threw away all your mechanics, because everything works in that aoe 180-600 radius, there is no friendly player targeting. And if it would be a cleansable effect/condi everyone would just pack as much cleanse as possible.

I don't think there is a healthy way to break the ball in this game. But they could do something about the boons which are just insanely strong compared to most games.

Even a 5 target cap spell like that, that actually kills at 5 targets would be insanely effective.

The skill linked by yhe OP is udually coupled with that armor set : https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/vicious-death, and it is usually used by a nightblade (thief-like stealther) to be able to get in range to cast it (otherwise you are most likely focused before your skill combo has even started).

and the result is this:

https://youtu.be/CzU6dXaxXCw?si=WrnIqJFX6E7rMecJ

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Give mesmer this back

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Panic

[Cuks.8241]

Any offensive mechanics that has a purpose to break the ball, e.g., requires spreading, more complex movement within the current rules of the game would increase the skill floor and ceiling for squad play substantially. There is nothing wrong with it but based on how just proper movement is already often a problem in pug groups, it would just introduce even bigger skill differences between organised and less organised teams.

Voice chat would be even more important, everyone or at least more players would need to make calls. The toxicity in pug groups would definitely go up as everyone would hate on players that didn't make the call on time. I know the forum's mantra  is often how boon ball is brainless (and boon farting kinda is). But on the other hand we have many players that refuse to join voice chat and if they join they have a problem playing properly within the ball with current "brainless" rules of engagement. Imagine a player that is already often tailing or overextending, wasting dodges and skills... and now has to perform precise movement on call (or even call it) and if that player messes up he will wipe half the squad. Heh, drama time all the time. 

Now if that is the goal, that is fine. It would be a new dynamic which might be interesting. But I don't think it would actually solve the boonball. Want to nerf the boonball and reduce disparity between boonball and pug clouds? Nerf boons and auras effectiveness. And maybe also increase the area range of boons to 600 units so that even groups that are not balling within 180 range get some benefit from each other.

[ilMasa.2546]

Just activate player collision in wvw 🙂

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 hours ago, Zepoolpe.9217 said:

The skill linked by yhe OP is udually coupled with that armor set : https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/vicious-death, and it is usually used by a nightblade (thief-like stealther) to be able to get in range to cast it (otherwise you are most likely focused before your skill combo has even started).

and the result is this:

https://youtu.be/CzU6dXaxXCw?si=WrnIqJFX6E7rMecJ

This is metal as hell. 
 

Barring a few balance adjustments, im siding with OP. This is indeed the kind of imaginative design the game needs. Simple solutions to these problems exist in the form of good mechanics…and counter play. 
 

but looking at anets actions of removing boon conversion… seems like things are going in the opposite direction.

[SweetPotato.7456]

please promote  your site elsewhere. 

[Zepoolpe.9217]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

but looking at anets actions of removing boon conversion… seems like things are going in the opposite direction.

Indeed.

But i must say That it's a very soft and restrained way of putting it 😁

[XenesisII.1540]

You guys are speaking as if anet wants to "solve" boonball, when in fact they've just spent the last three years reinforcing it. 🤷‍♂️

The only people who want to solve boon balls, don't play in boon balls, therefore are meant to be the sheep for boon balls to feed on. 🤷‍♂️

P.S Going by the video, just make gravity wells do big damage and we can replicate this. 🤭

Edited January 23 by XenesisII.1540

[Chrome.9841]

I wish necro focus 5 is aoe 😕

[CafPow.1542]

Maybe boons in general (e.g. in pve aswell) are to omnipresent. As well as utility skills.

why is a „100% boon uptime of all boons“ a good thing? Shouldn’t the be more reactive? This would also make raids and strikes and fractals more interesting when yoh can’t booncheese every boss.

and why is it that utility skills do damage? Should they really?

[kash.9213]

You don't need a boon ball to take another out, but you do need at least two or three groups worth of people among the pugs, clouds, or whatever being alert and jumping on opportunities when they're open. You can serve up a whole squad to your people with Oil when they scramble around on the walls which would be a great time for your side to cc and trip them up. But you're likely to watch your people scoot around at their max auto range and just kind of look at you while you and all the siege get taken out. 

You can lock up their allstar FB or whatever or bust up their flow long enough for a cc and burn on a couple of people to start snowballing. But people have to jump on that. Sometimes they do and you can feel it when it's only a matter of consistency and time before that boon ball can't sustain anymore. A lot of the time though, it's just a matter of one side going for it more than the other and I can't be mad if they put together a full composition and everything and are willing to maintain squad movement and buffs.

Boons should be adjusted to be more about deliberate windows to be decisive though, but I'd also be down for a Magicka Detonation unique item like Dragon Banner or something that has a window of use just to spice things up on a map and cause some drama. Part of the fun would be knowing it's out there somewhere.

Edited January 23 by kash.9213

[godofcows.2451]

zerg penalties. 

[MedievalThings.5417]

10 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Give mesmer this back

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Panic

Yes, signed 50 times.  But, since Anet wants perma-every boon and guilds being immune to pugs, this will never happen.

[MedievalThings.5417]

32 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

You don't need a boon ball to take another out, but you do need at least two or three groups worth of people among the pugs, clouds, or whatever being alert and jumping on opportunities when they're open. You can serve up a whole squad to your people with Oil when they scramble around on the walls which would be a great time for your side to cc and trip them up. But you're likely to watch your people scoot around at their max auto range and just kind of look at you while you and all the siege get taken out. 

You can lock up their allstar FB or whatever or bust up their flow long enough for a cc and burn on a couple of people to start snowballing. But people have to jump on that. Sometimes they do and you can feel it when it's only a matter of consistency and time before that boon ball can't sustain anymore. A lot of the time though, it's just a matter of one side going for it more than the other and I can't be mad if they put together a full composition and everything and are willing to maintain squad movement and buffs.

Boons should be adjusted to be more about deliberate windows to be decisive though, but I'd also be down for a Magicka Detonation unique item like Dragon Banner or something that has a window of use just to spice things up on a map and cause some drama. Part of the fun would be knowing it's out there somewhere.

Would be useless as a tactic though, since everyone uses alts to spy and troll already.

[Aeolus.3615]

16 hours ago, Pluton.7364 said:

Simple… you think you can stand in 60man blob healing each other? No… you are all dead

U dont solve boonballs  because Anet wants monoblobs  and boonbals if doing pvd the better,even when ktrain on EOTM where a thing dev's said that would be interesting gameplay adition  towards wvw, and if u had  just one ac point at a zerg u had pm's from a dev  telling that you were ruining other players experience .... this actually happened to me.

Second situation, i am in coms with a dev and many other players in a event  zerging  and dev's call a bad name to the enemy server of wanting to defend a t3 tower.

This is the mentality of the dev's... don't expect things to get better.

14 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

The gw2 version would have a 5 target cap. 😏

And later nerfed to a 0.8 damage quoficient and if people would be still using will be nerfed towards a 0.4 quoficient and adding boons on explosion.

Edited January 23 by Aeolus.3615

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

Would be useless as a tactic though, since everyone uses alts to spy and troll already.

Ya, I was thinking something more emergent and stupid like the old orbs or whatever those were in early game. Maybe have it be difficult or competitive to trigger and a real let down if it's gone to waste. I'd prefer to just not have boons themselves be as widely sustainable as they are, having them be a sort of let down if gone to waste too frequently also. 

[Gehenna.3625]

14 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

This would definitely be effective. But GW2 has a problem, because it's overall designed for squads to play tight. Boons, healing, cleansing, other effects. Not only in wvw, also in pve.  You also have insane visual clutter as soon as you have more than 5 players and kitten UI that is barely readable. So you can't really expect from players to see such spell landed and spread for it's effect only. And if you make players play as a cloud instead of a ball you just threw away all your mechanics, because everything works in that aoe 180-600 radius, there is no friendly player targeting. And if it would be a cleansable effect/condi everyone would just pack as much cleanse as possible.

I don't think there is a healthy way to break the ball in this game. But they could do something about the boons which are just insanely strong compared to most games.

Even a 5 target cap spell like that, that actually kills at 5 targets would be insanely effective.

The boons are indeed the biggest issue as you say, so nerfing the output of boons should be the first step imo. Nerf Ferocity, nerf might down to 10 stacks maximum. Nerf healing power so you need more of it to be effective and require high concentration to be able to maintain boons 100% of the time. Just some ideas. I think that playing a group and being a boonball should come with some rewards but not at a ridiculous level as it is now. 

Also requiring boons to have high concentration to maintain will also make celestial stats less powerful.

And maybe, here's thinking outside of the box, maybe do not allow groups bigger than a 10-man squad.

[Pluton.7364]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

The boons are indeed the biggest issue as you say, so nerfing the output of boons should be the first step imo. Nerf Ferocity, nerf might down to 10 stacks maximum. Nerf healing power so you need more of it to be effective and require high concentration to be able to maintain boons 100% of the time. Just some ideas. I think that playing a group and being a boonball should come with some rewards but not at a ridiculous level as it is now. 

Also requiring boons to have high concentration to maintain will also make celestial stats less powerful.

And maybe, here's thinking outside of the box, maybe do not allow groups bigger than a 10-man squad.

Actually i use celestial to get 100% boon duration😃😅 

just slap 10% boon duration sigil and runes and you are golden