In defence of kits.

[Chloe.3908]

I see a fair few people bash kits now and then, asking for them to go away or be limited to certain specalisations, and I'm fully expecting this to be a bit of a hot take. I mean I wasn't much of a fan of the old backpacks back in 2012 but....that's about it. Do miss the old healing bombs mind you!

I can appreciate the need for low intensity builds, people who want the comfy life, or have a disability, where a row of sigils, a mech and a rifle is about all you might want.

But...that ain't me. When I started playing GW2 and saw the cooldown mechanic I was a bit "Meh, well that sucks" .Untill I found the Engineer and kits, and realised I could have a 35 skill rotation that didn't mean I needed to bother with cooldowns. In that rotation are a lot of mechanics, combo's, condition to boon generation, passive and active healing, tanking, boon generation, perma quickness, lots of defiance break, 1500 range, pulls in competitve play, whatever I feel like, in whatever game mode I feel like. 10 weapon skills, 5 utilities and cooldowns? No thanks.

So, as an ode to kits, please leave them alone! Especially given the total atrocity that is the incoming shortbow.

 

[SleepyBat.9034]

I just want to see some kits get some buffs so they can be somewhat competitive in the current meta with all the insane powercreep. Grenade Kit and Elite Mortar Kit are fine but the Bomb Kit and Flamethrower Kits are quite weak. Also, I would like to see the 2nd skills on Toolkit and Elixer Gun have their cast times reduced a tad. They feel too slow for how low impact they are.

Edited March 26 by SleepyBat.9034

[Perceptor.7189]

The way kits works are not the issue; if using multiple kits entertains you, then go ahead, no one would complain about that.

The problem is tha,t the current form of the kits is terrible; they have followed an almost outdated combat style compared to when they were created, and the devs have done nothing to improve them to current standards.

It's been more than 12 years, and we still have:

-0 Clarity of purpose in the kits: Except for the healing kit, all the rest is a mix of 'they have to do everything.'

-Redundant abilities: 4 kits with blindness, 2 are AoE. Similar things with chills, fire, immob.

-Using the grenade kit for everything because the other kits are terrible.

-Toolkit having a 1-second cast on its last basic because 'it repairs turrets,' but no one in their right mind would repair a turret.

-Having to use kits for certain abilities because they don't exist outside of them/are not useful: This goes for having to use 3 kits for conditions because there are no other utilities that do condition damage or having to use elixir kit/mortar kit for their elixir skills, as the engineer's actual elixirs are useless for supporting a group.

-AOE targeting on basic attacks.

-Only 1 melee kit, the rest are all considered ranged (the bomb kit doesn't have a chain on the basic, so in its current form, it can be considered a ranged kit).

And for the record. I like kits too. Hell, i would love just being on flame kit all the time and just laugh like Hank Scorpio. 

 

[Corvolupo.5708]

I've been playng engi for 12 years, so, by a good measure i love this class, but, even if engineer was made with a "jack of all trades" concept in mind, i Always found kits to be somewhat underwelming, i mean: not all kits Need to be a confused mix of Power, condi, fields, support and some. I'd love to see a rework to give them a clear flavour; elixir gun for support, bomb for condi, grenades for power, you get It. And update some animations for God's sake ( i'm looking at you pooping bomb man).

[bambi.6214]

Don't be fooled that ANet will do to engi anything substantial.

 

Those pleading to change kits will be disappointed, and those afraid ANet does anything to kits are forgetting we're talking about engineer.

Nobody at ANet plays engi, nobody at ANet knows anything about the state of this profession. They changed gyros in 2019 after years of pleading, only coz it was supposed to be a selling point for HoT. Best we can expect is some number tweaking.

My bet? Next on the priority list of changes that we will see is underwater mech, then mech skins and maybe balance of the god forsaken shortbow. Nobody cares we have solid 5-6 grandmaster traits nobody uses, or half of our core skills are shìt.

Edited January 29 by bambi.6214

[Sirvaleen.1379]

We can always hope that the lack of new elite specs in the near future can lead to a serious upgrade work of the current ones 🤷‍♂️

[shion.2084]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:50 AM, Perceptor.7189 said:

The way kits works are not the issue; if using multiple kits entertains you, then go ahead, no one would complain about that.

The problem is tha,t the current form of the kits is terrible; they have followed an almost outdated combat style compared to when they were created, and the devs have done nothing to improve them to current standards.

It's been more than 12 years, and we still have:

-0 Clarity of purpose in the kits: Except for the healing kit, all the rest is a mix of 'they have to do everything.'

-Redundant abilities: 4 kits with blindness, 2 are AoE. Similar things with chills, fire, immob.

-Using the grenade kit for everything because the other kits are terrible.

-Toolkit having a 1-second cast on its last basic because 'it repairs turrets,' but no one in their right mind would repair a turret.

-Having to use kits for certain abilities because they don't exist outside of them/are not useful: This goes for having to use 3 kits for conditions because there are no other utilities that do condition damage or having to use elixir kit/mortar kit for their elixir skills, as the engineer's actual elixirs are useless for supporting a group.

-AOE targeting on basic attacks.

-Only 1 melee kit, the rest are all considered ranged (the bomb kit doesn't have a chain on the basic, so in its current form, it can be considered a ranged kit).

And for the record. I like kits too. Hell, i would love just being on flame kit all the time and just laugh like Hank Scorpio. 

 

If you are talking about other kits being terrible in regards to PvP, I will say that both Elixir gun and mortar and toolkit are reasonably viable.  Alien's scrapper build (which he has an army of little mini alien clones running about) uses E gun and toolkit.  Holos can make good use of toolkit.   I use both nades and Mortar in a build... you'd ask...but why?   Well cause to do any damage my scrapper be all invested in damaging traits and squishy as hell.  So after a mele engagement, or before, a good 1200 range AOE will soften up targets and cause havoc to team fights.  Combine mortar with the quickness trait and it can do significant damage into a team fight.   In close mele, it has a chill and a blind, nades also has a chill.... so even when running a power build those can be useful to fight in on a point.

I hate toolkit... but wrench with static discharge is effective, pri bar can hit for more than grenade barrage and it has a pull....

[Cameirus.8407]

On 1/27/2024 at 7:18 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I just want to see some kits get some buffs so they can be somewhat competitive in the current meta with all the insane powercreep. Grenade Kit and Elite Mortar Kit are fine but the Bomb Kit and Flamethrower Kits are quite weak. Also, I would like to see the 2nd skills on Toolkit and Elixer Gun have their cast times increased a tad. They feel too slow for how low impact they are.

I want grenade 1 to be an auto attack skill, please.

it works underwater (one of the few engi things that does), otherwise its really annoying to use.

[shion.2084]

I want people to have to aim grenades... not use the snap to target stuff.  

[Langeball.9351]

OP is me. I only got into GW2 after finding out about kits. Waiting for weapon swaps is absolute kitten.

[Fwog.9387]

People who don't like kits don't belong in the engie class. I'll say it. Its one of the main gimmicks of the class. There are work arounds to not play kits but kits are intended. If they got rid of kits i would stop playing it, and being that i main engie that would mean quitting gw2 entirely. 

[jason.1083]

6 hours ago, Fwog.9387 said:

People who don't like kits don't belong in the engie class. I'll say it. Its one of the main gimmicks of the class. There are work arounds to not play kits but kits are intended. If they got rid of kits i would stop playing it, and being that i main engie that would mean quitting gw2 entirely. 

Isn't that a bit of a stretch though? I mean not liking Kits is similar to let's say not liking Gadgets, or Elixirs, the fact that Kits have this whole thing around them with the weaponswap is a balance thing.

I exclusively been maining Engi from the day I started playing this game (just over 6 years ago) and after 8500 hours of it I dislike kits, and no I'm not supporting the weapon-swap idea either. 

So I really think that not liking Kits is not a big deal. 

PS : Those hours are mostly Holo, figured that's an important clarification.

[Jski.6180]

They just need an 5-10 sec cd after you swap out of them and every thing would be fixed about them.

[Jerus.4350]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

They just need an 5-10 sec cd after you swap out of them and every thing would be fixed about them.

NO

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

5 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

Isn't that a bit of a stretch though? I mean not liking Kits is similar to let's say not liking Gadgets, or Elixirs, the fact that Kits have this whole thing around them with the weaponswap is a balance thing.

I exclusively been maining Engi from the day I started playing this game (just over 6 years ago) and after 8500 hours of it I dislike kits, and no I'm not supporting the weapon-swap idea either. 

So I really think that not liking Kits is not a big deal. 

PS : Those hours are mostly Holo, figured that's an important clarification.

Honestly one of the main reasons I moved away from engineer is design and the fact they forcing reliance on just a couple of kits out of all of the skillset of engineer, while a majority of skills are basically worthless on the entire profession. Never mind the ever present push into the mechanist that seems to be going on that I didn't care for either. The shortbow being a massive disappointment didn't help but yea, I liked engineer preferred scrapper (or did until they dcided to kitten with quickness application and messed that up) but this idea of go kit or go home just doesn't jive when there are tons of skills that are currently worthless that need lots of love not just grenade kits and mortar.

Edited February 23 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[XenoSpyro.1780]

Why take Rocket Turret for it's CC when its on a 40 second cooldown, or Battering Ram for its 20x2, when you can take Big Ol Bomb for its 17 second cooldown and the highest damage auto attack. That the problem. It's too biased and forces you in one direction if you want to even be halfway efficient.

[derenas.9542]

Anet just refuses to make kits feel smoother , and they really feel wonky with elite specs

[Jski.6180]

22 hours ago, Jerus.4350 said:

NO

If you don't want things balance then you don't want things balance but it will be an on going issues to have an non cd utility that gives you 5 added skills that are able to be more effective then wepon skills. They are going to keep getting nerfed over and over.

[EdwinLi.1284]

I have no issue with kits as a mechanic but I feel they need to be updated due to the changes we experienced over the years as a result of introducing Elite Specs.

Not to mention they could have introduced new kits to add more into build options such as a Railgun kit, Potion Kit, and etc. Plenty of opportunity I feel the developers never took the chance to explore due to not really knowing what they wanted Engineer to be beyond the original plan to be a Jack of All trades but Master of None design which they moved away from after HoT was introduced due to Elite Specs.

Holosmith is a nice example of a Kit designed to be customizable based on the trait tree. Something I think they could have expanded on in different ways with potential Elite Specs focus on designing a kit that works for the player. 

Not to mention a Elite Spec that could have been based on deconstructing Kits so they can using the Kits to upgrade the Main Weapon which could have changed the skills of the Main Weapon based on which Kit the player used. It will have certainly been a lot of work providing a new Main Weapon skill per weapon for each Kit but something I feel was a missed chance to utilize. It also seem like something a Engineer profession person will do as well.

Edited February 25 by EdwinLi.1284

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

They could have done a lot. I mean when you look at Elonian and Cantha engineers... the holosmith looks like its design was originally more like a mesmer, but then they decided the holosmith should just have a lightsaber and a clunky forge mechanic (and yes holosmith is strong, now, but it is still clunky).

ANet is claiming that they won't do elite specs again for a while and feel all niches are filled, which obviously they aren't. I do think more elite specs are going to be introduced eventually as I don't see this just adding one new weapon to the professions as a solution, especially when there is clear evidence some of the weapons they are introducing aren't even a full kit for their design (short bow comes to mind here in that it is missing a lot).

But there is definitely a lot of rather aimless shots being fired at trying to update the professions as they stand now. Their own stated balance goals are not being met, I mean we got several specs that are pure healer set ups but being neglected entirely because despite what they say, they lack the boon support to cut the mustard for most; for instance heal spec vindicator probably close to rivaling a druid as far as pure healing power... but no boon support meaning don't even bother. And then scrapper they change dhow quickness application works, in some nebulous void idea claim of making the class more dynamic and some faux claim of trying to make us not just cycle our gyros.... which we still do but the goal posts got moved now we just throw out the moves that would be better saved for things like CC and or team rescue willy nilly just to keep quick applied constantly. And instead of 1 button we now push two, which still doesn't feel good especially when others can push one button or in some cases just idle to apply boons.

Edited February 25 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Langeball.9351]

Not only are kits fine, but they should rework turrets into kits as well. Make them into armed wheelchairs that we can roll around in, with the gun, rocketlauncher, netlauncher and thumper attached to it.

[Coolster.2536]

I like kits. They offer a lot of versatility and dynamic decision-making in combat, but they should really be our profession mechanic instead of the Toolbelt. F1 could be the DPS kit, F2 would be the Support kit, F3 can be the defense/mobility kit, and slap Mortar kit on the F4. Still leaves F5 open for Function Gyro, Photon Forge, and Recall Mech. Then our utilities can be reworked and modernized. Rework Turrets to work like Traps/Preparations. Rework Gadgets to work like Mantras. Rework Elixirs to be like Harbinger's, and take the most useful Toolbelt kills and rework them to be the utilities to replace kits.

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, Langeball.9351 said:

Not only are kits fine, but they should rework turrets into kits as well. Make them into armed wheelchairs that we can roll around in, with the gun, rocketlauncher, netlauncher and thumper attached to it.

There's a simpler way to fix turrets: Give them the same treatment as mesmer phantasms and ranger spirits so that they perform their attack and then disappear. Then they can actually be balanced around that. Maybe distinguish them by having them wait until a target is in range before firing if they're placed in advance, giving them a bit of a traplike quality.

Would also make them less suitable for afk farming.

[Mell.4873]

I'm in agreement with idea that it is an outdated mechanic. Whenever I play engineer it is like going back in time. 

[Kuma.1503]

Engineer has no weapon swap because kits are additional "Weapons". 

The only problem I have with kits is that, unlike traditional weapons, they have not been updated to keep up with modern GW2. They are in desperate need of reworks. 

The medkit reworks were a good start, but Bomb Kit, Flamethrower, and Toolkit still need to be looked at. 

Mortar meanwhile... Just needs a better mode. Get rid of the ugly placeholder please. Rewrite them with the Mortar models in Drizzlewood coast, they look so much better.