Waffles.5632 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) Here we go. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Sand Speed of Sand is a Minor Grandmaster trait that provides 66% movement speed for 3/4ths of a second when a Mirage gets Mirage Cloak. (I.E when they dodge) Keep in mind Mirages dodge in place unlike normal dodging. This 66% movement speed buff was so they could "dodge out of aoes" which, is a fine concept but it is not a fine Minor Grandmaster trait. Let us compare other Minor Grandmaster traits; Berserker - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy Spellbreaker - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attacker's_Insight Bladesworn - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guns_and_Glory Willbender - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Righteous_Sprint Chronomancer - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Marches_On Reaper - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cold_Shoulder Soulbeast - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twice_as_Vicious Renegade - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brutal_Momentum Vindicator - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empire_Divided Deadeye - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Iron_Sight Holosmith - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laser's_Edge Now double check willbender again, you see how it's a MINOR MASTER. Yes I did that on purpose. Here is actual Willbender Minor Grandmaster: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lethal_Tempo As you can see, most Minor Grandmaster traits offer valuable utility or 10-15% damage buffs. Mirage literally gets the -base line- dodge speed as it's Minor Grandmaster. 🤧 If you look at Patch Notes for Speed of Sand link you will see Speed of Sand used to give superspeed. I propose Anet make Speed of Sand grant 2-3 secs of AOE superspeed in PvE and 1sec of personal superspeed in PvP/WvW. This will make Speed of Sand fun again because Mirages can make everyone Sonic for PvE, and can be Sonic in PvP/WvW for zoom zooms. Thank you for your time. Edited February 8 by Waffles.5632 15 3 2 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshkyLicious.4729 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Superspeed needs to come back again in this trait, since 66% speed boost isnt enough for a Mirage to actually bring themselves out of big AoE attacks (esp. in modes like WvW). I think 3 sec of superspeed should go for for both PvE and WvW, while it can be shorter for PvP. I like the "shared superspeed with allies in PvE" part of your idea alot, would def make this trait much more interesting. Id like to add one more bonus in this trait aswell, and that should be a damage boost to all of the Mirage's and it's clones attacks. This bonus activates when dodging and stays for some seconds on the Mirage and it's clones. This should bring us one step closer to having a impactful special dodge again, cuz we're def not there rn with all the nerfs we recieved to our dodge in the past. 6 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronmy.3298 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) I've been saying this since i picked the spec a year ago. It should be baked into baseline and create a new minor to replace it that is actually impactful. But i also like the idea of aoe superspeed. If Anet finally stops bullying mirage and make rifle at least viable on it it might also make it better as a healer than without it. Edited February 9 by Geronmy.3298 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage.8046 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I'd advocate for more superspeed on a mobile espec, so yes yes and yes to this idea! Mesmer in general needs its own reliable superspeed with all the mobility creep there is nowadays. 😔 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beddo.1907 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 *Go for the Eyes, Wilting Strike and Beastly Warden has entered the room* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronmy.3298 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said: *Go for the Eyes, Wilting Strike and Beastly Warden has entered the room* Do these simply not work at all or work as intended? Because if not bugged they are miles ahead of speed of sand. Starting from the fact that you can choose not to take them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffles.5632 Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 (edited) Speed of Sand doesn't actually buff or add anything. It simply makes it so Mirage Cloak can move the same distance as a normal dodge. (Notice how Vindicator doesn't need a trait for this btw) It is literally a zero value trait. There is no comparison. The fact that it occupies a grandmaster minor slot is just insult to injury. I have shown the evidence, I now rest my case. Edited February 9 by Waffles.5632 10 5 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beddo.1907 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Geronmy.3298 said: Starting from the fact that you can choose not to take them. Ok fair point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said: Speed of Sand doesn't actually buff or add anything. It simply makes it so Mirage Cloak can move the same distance as a normal dodge. (Notice how Vindicator doesn't need a trait for this btw) It is literally a zero value trait. There is no comparison. The fact that it occupies a grandmaster minor slot is just insult to injury. I have shown the evidence, I now rest my case. What would you give up for that super speed? 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronmy.3298 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said: It simply makes it so Mirage Cloak can move the same distance as a normal dodge. (Notice how Vindicator doesn't need a trait for this btw) This also only applies if you're facing the same direction you want to move. You do move slower moving to the sides or backwards, so is actually worse. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscuro.9720 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 7 hours ago, mirage.8046 said: I'd advocate for more superspeed on a mobile espec, so yes yes and yes to this idea! Mesmer in general needs its own reliable superspeed with all the mobility creep there is nowadays. 😔 While I agree with the post, the minor is useless and needs a buff, I disagree with the sentiment that super speed should replace it. Less creep in boons and mobility would be preferable to me. Granted I don’t play mirage, but the game needs less super speed not more rn imo. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said: While I agree with the post, the minor is useless and needs a buff, I disagree with the sentiment that super speed should replace it. Less creep in boons and mobility would be preferable to me. Granted I don’t play mirage, but the game needs less super speed not more rn imo. From the sound of it, that's not enough lol I've played my share of Virtuoso and Mirage but I always noticed that the stuff Mesmer does get is often stacked. The way I see it, lots of things have been reigned in (to the detriment of utility and uniqueness) so getting that toning down retracted is probably tougher than new changes. Also, this comparing traits across professions the OP is doing is just strawmen. That's not how the game is balanced. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matoro.9708 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Idk, modern game design is about taking away basic functionality then making you pay to have it back, isn't that more fun? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 The worst trait in the game right now is Crack Shot from Warrior. And it's not even close. Historicaly it's the old version of Brave Stride. That one was one of the worst traits I have ever seen in gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronmy.3298 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: The worst trait in the game right now is Crack Shot from Warrior. And it's not even close. Historicaly it's the old version of Brave Stride. That one was one of the worst traits I have ever seen in gaming. Speed of Sand is still worse, you can choose something better than Crack Shot because it's a major. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triptaminas.4789 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/9/2024 at 11:28 PM, Waffles.5632 said: Speed of Sand doesn't actually buff or add anything. It simply makes it so Mirage Cloak can move the same distance as a normal dodge. (Notice how Vindicator doesn't need a trait for this btw) It is literally a zero value trait. There is no comparison. The fact that it occupies a grandmaster minor slot is just insult to injury. I have shown the evidence, I now rest my case. *mic drop* 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gesbo.6420 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) I was actually thinking about this a couple of days ago myself. Wanted to make a list of all the useless mesmer traits like desperate decoy and infinite Forge and dune cloak ( granted those are being changed in March, not to great extend but oh well) Speed of Sand though, hands down the worst grand master minor or minor all together. Given the fact that mirage has to be like the thief version of the mirage (what will bender is for guardian) it really needs some polish to be less clunky and quicker. Super speed is a good idea. Give us back the third jaunt and shave the cooldown in competitive and I'll be a happy mesmer Like I'm not being funny, most eillbender utility skills are 20 sec cd in competitive all mirage ones are 30+. I went further into the rabit hole: Rolling light is on 25 sec cooldown and breaks stun, blinds, grants resistance and also grants you access to another skill. Sand through glass also breaks stun, drops a mirror but is on 30 sec cool down. I guess you can argue that mirror is another skill but that would not excuse the longer cool down and less functionality... Edited February 17 by Gesbo.6420 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Once you put your envy aside and start looking at your own professions traits again, I guess we're back to square one. I don't think the Dune Cloak trait change is strong BUT just how much speed do you think it would add once you start taking that into account with your proposal? Having traits that mostly modify a particular skill would seem rather elegant in the past...now they have to tack on a bunch of team boons too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) Again to those who don't understand why that trait sucks is because it is hindered by cripple/chill, super speed ignores those 2 ailments, now considering mirage dodge is stationary this trait was to "compensate" the distance of a normal dodge to avoid aoes and what not. A normal dodge with cripple/chill will still get the distance, however, mirage with cripple/chill will not. In other words they made a normal dodge with shiny visuals and split the distance into a trait. So yes this trait is utterly useless and it's already proven that ANET is biased against Mesmers...it was evident with the pvp discord that is o so exclusive with Devs "discussing" what needs to be balanced. Edited February 18 by Salt Mode.3780 3 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephidelGRS.9520 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 18 minutes ago, Leo G.4501 said: Once you put your envy aside and start looking at your own professions traits again, I guess we're back to square one. I don't think the Dune Cloak trait change is strong BUT just how much speed do you think it would add once you start taking that into account with your proposal? Having traits that mostly modify a particular skill would seem rather elegant in the past...now they have to tack on a bunch of team boons too? The trait DID give Superspeed originally, before it was taken away for whatever reason. Party boon Superspeed might be a bit too much, but asking for its original version to be restored isn’t that unreasonable. Regarding the upcoming Dune Cloak, it only works with power Mirage, specifically Sword. Considering that power Mesmers lack the aggro-tanking nature of the Clones of condi variants, and Sword having to be in face-to-face close combat with little defense, it’d be a healthy synergy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronmy.3298 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 minute ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said: The trait DID give Superspeed originally, before it was taken away for whatever reason. Party boon Superspeed might be a bit too much, but asking for its original version to be restored isn’t that unreasonable. Regarding the upcoming Dune Cloak, it only works with power Mirage, specifically Sword. Considering that power Mesmers lack the aggro-tanking nature of the Clones of condi variants, and Sword having to be in face-to-face close combat with little defense, it’d be a healthy synergy. And don't forget that you can also dodge backwards and to the sides the same distance as facing forwards. Mirage Cloak doesn't have that luxury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 16 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: Again to those who don't understand why that trait sucks is because it is hindered by cripple/chill, super speed ignores those 2 ailments, now considering mirage dodge is stationary this trait was to "compensate" the distance of a normal dodge to avoid aoes and what not. A normal dodge with cripple/chill will still get the distance, however, mirage with cripple/chill will not. In other words they made a normal dodge with shiny visuals and split the distance into a trait. So yes this trait is utterly useless and it's already proven that ANET is biased against Mesmers...it was evident with the pvp discord that is o so exclusive with Devs "discussing" what needs to be balanced. So you're saying Mirage cloak is useless and has no unique advantages? 16 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said: The trait DID give Superspeed originally, before it was taken away for whatever reason. Party boon Superspeed might be a bit too much, but asking for its original version to be restored isn’t that unreasonable. Regarding the upcoming Dune Cloak, it only works with power Mirage, specifically Sword. Considering that power Mesmers lack the aggro-tanking nature of the Clones of condi variants, and Sword having to be in face-to-face close combat with little defense, it’d be a healthy synergy. Yeah, I read the patch notes. There were quite a few changes that affected mirage negatively. I'm not against giving the trait something but you basically outline what I'm talking about: yeah, power mirage will get more out of the trait because of the negatives you point out. It's like they give up something for it... 16 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said: And don't forget that you can also dodge backwards and to the sides the same distance as facing forwards. Mirage Cloak doesn't have that luxury. Use Action cam? Turn your camera? Or did they ever fix that thing were Action Cam strafing is faster than free cam? Also, I think you guys are gaslighting. Apparently Mirage Cloak has NO luxuries? It's just a random nerf so you can use ambush skills? It's like downplaying Mirage Cloak as bad and Speed of Sand just makes Mirage Cloak not a nerf. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 10 hours ago, Leo G.4501 said: So you're saying Mirage cloak is useless and has no unique advantages? Again did I say or is this topic about Mirage cloak being useless...? Perhaps read what I post more carefully before commenting. For a grandmaster minor trait, it serves no purpose being there compared to other grandmaster minor traits other specs have. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croissant.2671 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 That's okay. I'm sure everyone arguing for Speed of Sand being an acceptable trait will be fine when standard dodge is going to be changed to roll on the spot and one random minor trait of every elite tree will be replaced by something like "You now roll in your chosen direction when dodging". 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 19 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: Again did I say or is this topic about Mirage cloak being useless...? Perhaps read what I post more carefully before commenting. For a grandmaster minor trait, it serves no purpose being there compared to other grandmaster minor traits other specs have. Perhaps think more intuitively then? If you're saying that Speed of Sand "compensates", that typically means give back in recognition for a loss. The exaggeration is to highlight that no, Mirage Cloak isn't useless but rather has it's own niche of advantages. You are exchanged the advantages of normal dodge for Mirage Cloak and you're "rebated" the exchange by letting you keep the advantages of Mirage Cloak while providing you speed during Mirage Cloak. Arguing that it's a kitten GM minor? Sure. Arguing that it's just giving you back regular dodge? That's just not how that equation works. Comparing to other GM minors? That's just petty and a waste of breath. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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