Research Notes aren't to my liking

[Linken.6345]

12 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I suspect some opinion on this depends on the amount of time a person has to play the game/how one can play the came.

If you only have limited time to play/week (say 5 hours/week), spending 30 minutes of that watching the crafting station spin around and sitting in town doing that.

But if you are able to have a GW2 window up while doing other stuff on the computer, or play a lot of hours/week, that time at the crafting station isn't as a significant in your play time.

That is one complaint I have about GW2 - there is a lot of time one sits around waiting for things to complete or happen.

sound like a time managment issue then, why did they not boot the game up while preparing breakfast on none game days and let their character do those semi automated tasks while having said breakfast?

[Setz.9675]

Wanted to make a suggestion in the QoL thread about this very topic.

The ABSOLUTE WASTE OF ELECTRICITY and time to stand at a crafting station upgrading ores --> ingots --> item specific crafting material --> the crafted item that can be salvaged for research notes is ridiculous. (jewelcrafting example)

Something as simple as a crafting recipe like:

250 mithril ore + 250 mithril ore + 50 tier5 jewels -->item that can only be salvaged for research notes.

Make recipes like these for all crafting professions please.

The current method to obtain research notes in large quantities through uncommon and common item crafting are anti-fun, a waste of time and electricity and imo turns people away from this system altogether.

Edited March 10 by Setz.9675
typo

[Ashen.2907]

21 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

sound like a time managment issue then, why did they not boot the game up while preparing breakfast on none game days and let their character do those semi automated tasks while having said breakfast?

You have time to eat breakfast?!?!

[Sobx.1758]

22 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I suspect some opinion on this depends on the amount of time a person has to play the game/how one can play the came.

If you only have limited time to play/week (say 5 hours/week), spending 30 minutes of that watching the crafting station spin around and sitting in town doing that.

But if you are able to have a GW2 window up while doing other stuff on the computer, or play a lot of hours/week, that time at the crafting station isn't as a significant in your play time.

That is one complaint I have about GW2 - there is a lot of time one sits around waiting for things to complete or happen.

2 hours ago, Setz.9675 said:

Wanted to make a suggestion in the QoL thread about this very topic.

The ABSOLUTE WASTE OF ELECTRICITY and time to stand at a crafting station upgrading ores --> ingots --> item specific crafting material --> the crafted item that can be salvaged for research notes is ridiculous. (jewelcrafting example)

Something as simple as a crafting recipe like:

250 mithril ore + 250 mithril ore + 50 tier5 jewels -->item that can only be salvaged for research notes.

Make recipes like these for all crafting professions please.

The current method to obtain research notes in large quantities through uncommon and common item crafting are anti-fun, a waste of time and electricity and imo turns people away from this system altogether.

So this is an "improve crafting" thread, now I get it!

[Astralporing.1957]

16 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So this is an "improve crafting" thread, now I get it!

You could make the exact same recipe accessible by a vendor. Doesn't really matter. The end result (destroying mats for a currency meant to promote destroying mats) would still be achieved, but we'd need to jump through less hoops than currently.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You could make the exact same recipe accessible by a vendor. Doesn't really matter. The end result (destroying mats for a currency meant to promote destroying mats) would still be achieved, but we'd need to jump through less hoops than currently.

How does that answer what you quoted? The posters I queted complained about crafting times which makes it a complaint about crafting system. You saying "it could be put accessible by vendor" doesn't change that complaint -or my comment- at all, does it? If anything, it still points at simply disliking crafting times.

Edited March 11 by Sobx.1758

[QueenKeriti.5176]

On 3/10/2024 at 1:40 PM, Ashen.2907 said:

You have time to eat breakfast?!?!

You eat?!?!

GW2 crafting is so fast, too...

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How does that answer what you quoted? The posters I queted complained about crafting times which makes it a complaint about crafting system. You saying "it could be put accessible by vendor" doesn't change that complaint -or my comment- at all, does it? If anything, it still points at simply disliking crafting times.

The research notes are there not for the sake of crafting system. They are here to serve as a material sink. So, yes, skipping the unnecessary for this purpose steps of having to chain-craft intermediaries, and then minor stuff from those over and over again would be good. Whether it would be done by making simplified recipes just for this, or by bypassing the whole craft system altogether via a RN vendor.

Notice, that neither of those requires (or asks for) an actual improvement of the crafting system as it is.

[firedragon.8953]

I agree, I dislike research notes too.
Seems like anet loves them though. They doubled down on them in SotO even.
Either that, or they just like trolling their players. lol

[Kiki.9450]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The research notes are there not for the sake of crafting system. They are here to serve as a material sink. So, yes, skipping the unnecessary for this purpose steps of having to chain-craft intermediaries, and then minor stuff from those over and over again would be good. Whether it would be done by making simplified recipes just for this, or by bypassing the whole craft system altogether via a RN vendor.

Notice, that neither of those requires (or asks for) an actual improvement of the crafting system as it is.

I like the idea of being able to trade x amount of Mithril Ore or Orichalcum Ore (or whatever else) for y Research Notes, but if you're into whatever's most economically viable, then you can still craft that or (or whatever else) into things to deconstruct for Research Notes.

Kind of like going to the super market and buying a premade meal versus making your own. Sure, you can buy the tomatoes, the pasta, the seasonings, etc., and throw together a healthy spaghetti dish, but there's also a premade one that's pretty good at the market for a bit more. In the end, you still get spaghetti, but one way is cheaper time-wise, and the other cheaper money-wise. You pick which you value most. (Personally I usually have the time and desire to cook for myself. 🙂)

[kharmin.7683]

Not only are research notes a material sink, but a time sink as well.  Time spent crafting things is time spent in game which pads the numbers of logged in players.  RS serves more than one purpose.  This is why I don't think Anet will change them.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I don't have time for that kitten. I just buy crafted exotic gear in bulk when I need research notes and research them with 10s of clicking items. I still have over 3k notes sitting in my wallet...

Honestly, I need more ways to get spirit shards in bulk... That is much more annoying...

[SinisterSlay.6973]

I hate research notes so much.

The way they keep changing what can be salvaged has created a wasteland of useless info topics when you google what to salvage.

And crafting something just to salvage feels really bad.  You work hard to get the materials, only to destroy them immediately after.

Why not just give a crafting recipe that straight creates research notes?  Make one for each of the base materials. BAM you have your material sink and it is much less painful for players.

 

But now that we have open world legendary armor, I finally sort of looked into how to make it.  And yikes, light all the lanterns how many times? And that's just one part. That's not game content, that's a death march.  Why is this all so purposely over complicated? Like they tried to make it as unfun as possible. What kind of design goal of a game is it to make something be not fun? Research notes are designed with the same goal.

ANET, Games are supposed to be fun, make the game fun.  Not tedious.

Edited March 12 by SinisterSlay.6973

[kharmin.7683]

14 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

 

But now that we have open world legendary armor, I finally sort of looked into how to make it.  And yikes, light all the lanterns how many times? And that's just one part. That's not game content, that's a death march.  Why is this all so purposely over complicated?

 

Because people have been crying for OW lege for years and have said that they would do anything other than WvW to get it.  Another case of not being careful for what is wished for.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

Because people have been crying for OW lege for years and have said that they would do anything other than WvW to get it.  Another case of not being careful for what is wished for.

It's funny they made skyscale easier but not legendary armor.

I'd have gone the other way around if I was developing, allow people to switch builds easier, get them in more content, encourage more build crafting.  And leave skyscale as an end story goal.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The research notes are there not for the sake of crafting system. They are here to serve as a material sink. So, yes, skipping the unnecessary for this purpose steps of having to chain-craft intermediaries, and then minor stuff from those over and over again would be good. Whether it would be done by making simplified recipes just for this, or by bypassing the whole craft system altogether via a RN vendor.

Notice, that neither of those requires (or asks for) an actual improvement of the crafting system as it is.

Nobody said they're there for the sake of crafting system. But apparently the main problem with them in this comment chain is crafting times.

Crafting system is there whether notes include it or not. If someone points at the issue being "chained crafting times" then that issue remains there whether or not research notes use it. Either we conclude that crafting times are fine to keep -and then so is using it for research notes- or they're seen as problematic.

 

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

But now that we have open world legendary armor, I finally sort of looked into how to make it.  And yikes, light all the lanterns how many times?

Yeah, how dare the OW legendary armor parts include OW map exploration?! I wonder why would you believe it shouldn't.

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Why is this all so purposely over complicated?

It isn't.

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

allow people to switch builds easier, get them in more content, encourage more build crafting. 

Yeah, that would totally happen. Some players screamed for legendary armor because they didn't want to get into more content. They're not suddenly changing their mind after getting easier set.

Edited March 12 by Sobx.1758

[Gwynnion.7364]

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

But now that we have open world legendary armor, I finally sort of looked into how to make it.  And yikes, light all the lanterns how many times? And that's just one part. That's not game content, that's a death march.  Why is this all so purposely over complicated? Like they tried to make it as unfun as possible. What kind of design goal of a game is it to make something be not fun? Research notes are designed with the same goal.

 

I don't even think Research Notes serve their intended purpose anymore, which was supposedly to eliminate junk mats from the TP or at least make low level crafting worth something again, but over time it's become another gold sink as they've made so many things unsalvageable while hiking the amount of Research Notes you need.

I don't necessarily mind the grind for Obsidian Armor, but it sure feels like SOTO is made of nothing but gold and time sinks to force people to play what little content there is for as long as possible.  I worry what'll happen as the hard core players start dropping out, but I also question how many players will give up on the legendary armor, whose cost is artificially inflated for the quality of life benefits it offers.  Even if a majority struggles through, what is Anet going to offer in the next expansion?  Where do we go if everybody has legendary armor, weapons, the skyscale, etc., which were all originally prestige items?

[SinisterSlay.6973]

52 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody said they're there for the sake of crafting system. But apparently the main problem with them in this comment chain is crafting times.

Crafting system is there whether notes include it or not. If someone points at the issue being "chained crafting times" then that issue remains there whether or not research notes use it. Either we conclude that crafting times are fine to keep -and then so is using it for research notes- or they're seen as problematic.

 

Yeah, how dare the OW legendary armor parts include OW map exploration?! I wonder why would you believe it shouldn't.

It isn't.

Yeah, that would totally happen. Some players screamed for legendary armor because they didn't want to get into more content. They're not suddenly changing their mind after getting easier set.

That's not exploration, that's tedium.  Exploration involves new things, tedium is doing the same 36 times for hours with no fun in sight.

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

That's not exploration, that's tedium.  Exploration involves new things, tedium is doing the same 36 times for hours with no fun in sight.

No, that's exploration and map completion. Who would believe legendary items require repeated activity, right? Completely unpredictible precedent.

36?

Edited March 12 by Sobx.1758

[SinisterSlay.6973]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, that's exploration and map completion. Who would believe legendary items require repeated activity, right? Completely unpredictible precedent.

Sure, in your mind legendary items are supposed to be not fun.  If you have fun doing it, your doing it wrong.

Why not just get a job and make money, its equally not fun.

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Sure, in your mind legendary items are supposed to be not fun.  If you have fun doing it, your doing it wrong.

No, in my mind legendary items are supposed to be a long term effort, but you're rather clearly focused on grinding it out asap instead and then wonder why it might be too much for you. So not even close, but I appreciate the attempt at guessing.

9 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Why not just get a job and make money

I don't see the relevance, but you probably should do it anyways.

 

So, to get back from your bad irrelevant strawman attempts:
Map completion for OW legendaries is easly to be expected and completely reasonable.
It isn't overly complicated.
Your claim about "leggies should be easy to get people into more content" is wrong and you know it, considering you praised the inclusion of OW armor "because it's good for people who can't or won't play more content".
If "more content" and "buildcrafting" is your gold, there's plenty of places you can go (including wvw) to get gear and buildcraft.

And to get it even more on track, crafting items in bulk with "auto-research" box marked isn't really a problem.

Edited March 12 by Sobx.1758

[SinisterSlay.6973]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, in my mind legendary items are supposed to be a long term effort, but you're rather clearly focused on grinding it out asap instead and then wonder why it might be too much for you. So not even close, but I appreciate the attempt at guessing.

I don't see the relevance, but you probably should do it anyways.

 

So, to get back from your bad irrelevant strawman attempts:
Map completion for OW legendaries is easly to be expected and completely reasonable.
It isn't overly complicated.
Your claim about "leggies should be easy to get people into more content" is wrong and you know it, considering you praised the inclusion of OW armor "because it's good for people who can't or won't play more content".
If "more content" and "buildcrafting" is your gold, there's plenty of places you can go (including wvw) to get gear and buildcraft.

Ok so SoTO will be relevant in 10 more years,  Got it, no need to grind.  It may actually take me that long just to get enough research notes let alone the other gifts.  I drop anything when it stops being fun since time is too valuable.

Little flattered you went through my post history.  Unsure how facts are strawman, but whatever.

All I ask is make getting legendary gear actually fun.  Attach it to fun events, do fun things.

Edited March 12 by SinisterSlay.6973

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

Ok so SoTO will be relevant in 10 more years, 

Probably just like most/any other gw2 map, yes.

1 minute ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

It may actually take me that long just to get enough research notes let alone the other gifts.

In that case you're doing something terribly wrong. Or intentionally misrepresenting the situation, who knows.

2 minutes ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

I drop anything when it stops being fun since time is too valuable.

Cool, once again I don't see the relevance nor how it responds to anything I wrote. Probably because it doesn't. Could you maybe focus on what you're quoting and address it instead of constantly intentionally avoiding it?

[Gwynnion.7364]

It just annoys me that Research Notes got tacked onto everything from item crafting to legendaries, and in amounts that seem to expect you can either still salvage bread and other crappy items or that you're just rolling in gold or ascended items you don't need.  Especially since every time players found a reasonably affordable way to get Research Notes, it got patched out, forcing people toward salvaging more expensive items.  Which is backwards from the original stated intent.  The fact that Obsidian Armor requires as many of these useless currencies as possible -- Kryptis essences, luck, provisioner's tokens, unusual coins, research notes -- makes it more obnoxious.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Probably just like most/any other gw2 map, yes.

In that case you're doing something terribly wrong. Or intentionally misrepresenting the situation, who knows.

Cool, once again I don't see the relevance nor how it responds to anything I wrote. Probably because it doesn't. Could you maybe focus on what you're quoting and address it instead of constantly intentionally avoiding it?

Actually I did reply, but again, whatever.

I am doing something wrong?  Maybe, I do my dailies, maybe work towards some achievement.  30 minutes a day at most usually.  Right now I am cycling around vendors each day for the provisioner tokens since I had none of them.  Didn't know they existed or was needed.  So dailies plus cycle. I might have to squeeze in research notes, someone posted a link with a site that lists stuff to craft for them.

So what am I doing wrong?