Stop Forcing Us To Do Story to Progress the Game [Merged]

[Westenev.5289]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Except current (since eod) strike release follows the [story -> normal -> cm] encounter progression , so if someone "wants to get into strikes", it would probably be in their best interest to play through the story encounters first? Other than that, they can do what I initially did -join strike lfg, tp to a friend to wizard tower and clear the strike. Then proceed with the story whenever they feel like. I don't think players have trouble "getting into strikes and raids" because of the story.

And people not understanding how the game progression/map unlocks work or even how content is bound to its respective expansion is a completely different issue btw (if it actually is an issue to solve?). In that case, even if nothing here was related to the story, they'd still be as lost as they are now.

 

I'm not here to discuss how people SHOULD play the game. I'm here to discuss how people ARE playing the game, and how that influences my experiences as a PuG commander. The main problem, as I've already discussed, is that people have trouble reaching the Wizards Tower or (formerly) Arborstone. The two main causes are 1) lack of story progression/lack of wizards tower scroll and 2) Doesn't understand that you need certain expansions to do certain strike missions. The fact that I can sometimes get 1-3 of these players per "beginner/training group" makes me suspect that some players are struggling to understand when they should attempt strike missions.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I am full invested in the story. I don't want quality of life features locked behind a story step. I don't even want new weapons for professions locked behind an expansion or story step either. When they gave us weapon mastery that let us use any previous expansion weapons without having to own them, I thought that was the new precedent for just unlocking it for everyone.

[Ntastan.7509]

Currently finishing the EoD story. I skipped the whole expansion and I saw it was on sale these days so i thought f it, why not?

Probably DEFINITELY the worst experience i 've had it a while in any MMO...

Parts where you have to sit and listen to npcs dialogues in an instanced environment (so you can't do anything else), especially the part with the ladies' wedding  where you just had to talk to npcs while w8 npcs to arrive, like... rly? And then that part with Gorrik's holo-journal (or w/e it was) where you had to sit in front of it, listen to entry #x .......... click again to listen next entry ........... click to listen next entry .......... and so on for like 10-11 entries. COME ON...

I don't mind doing the main stories in MMO to either progress/unlock content or just to see the whole thing, but sitting and listening endlessly to character/lore "enriching" bs is a bit too much some times. And EoD was 100% one of those times.

Edited March 19 by Ntastan.7509

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

I kinda guess where these players are heading towards...

Expect thread with title : " I don't want skills and elite specializations locked behind exp and levels"

"Leveling and gaining exp is boring.. I want character to be lvl80 full stats, all skills unlocked all specialization unlocked, the moment I finish creating the character"

Expect statements like the ones above in the future 🤭 

 

Maybe anet shd make branching stories with options(decisions matter) in expansion level stories like how they did core tyria and racial specific storylines... But with same ending so... Players would not feel repetitive and boring to complete stories in expansions... (We do get some racial specific dialog in EOD - the boat travel with canthan fisherman.. but entire branching stories within expansion main story would be fun i guess)But it might consume extra development resources... Idk

 

And some players prefer to play mmo where it just shoves tons and tones of pages of text without voiced lines and they hate to press one button to listen to voicelines and.... prefer all NPC standing in same spot without the setting and environment describing the current situation in form of pure text pages .... and hate when gw2 NPCs and cutscenes fit into setting and describe the situation perfectly with voicelines and interactive objects..

Edited March 19 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Sobx.1758]

15 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Fractals, once again, demonstrates that ANet knows how to add scaling difficulty that works with no BS. You ahve T1 that's really easy, T2 that steps it up to about Dungeon difficulty, then T3/T4 that goes a bit beyond with CMs sprinkled in there for the extra challenge and rewards. Yet anyone who wants 10 man content has to suffer through story that's dull, lacking engagement, and can be passed by alt tabbing and auto attacking on most classes. 

People who find the story fights dull already don't need to go through them, quite literally like I already said in the post you've just quoted:

20 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Other than that, they can do what I initially did -join strike lfg, tp to a friend to wizard tower and clear the strike. Then proceed with the story whenever they feel like. I don't think players have trouble "getting into strikes and raids" because of the story.

___

15 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Stop moving the hubs every expansion. Or, at the very least, have the most recent hub include the new content + portals to the old content (as in, SotO strike hub has all the SotO, EoD, and IBS strike entrances), so one would only have to do the most recent story to get into the content.

Disagreed, new hubs are fine. People don't need to buy old expansions in order to get a hub, they buy the latest expansion (or any other they are interested in) and logically have access to the relevant player hub. I don't see the issue here.
I don't have a problem with the idea of including older strikes in newer hubs, except maybe THAT's what would be confusing for newer players -why are they getting a popup for EoD strike missions in Wizard Tower, but they can't enter those strikes because they don't have the expansion? Why can their group enter an older strike from WT, but the new player can't? (because they don't have previous expansions). I'm not sure that would work well, even though for me personally it wouldn't be an issue.

 

____

13 hours ago, Westenev.5289 said:

I'm not here to discuss how people SHOULD play the game. I'm here to discuss how people ARE playing the game, and how that influences my experiences as a PuG commander. The main problem, as I've already discussed, is that people have trouble reaching the Wizards Tower or (formerly) Arborstone. The two main causes are 1) lack of story progression/lack of wizards tower scroll and 2) Doesn't understand that you need certain expansions to do certain strike missions. The fact that I can sometimes get 1-3 of these players per "beginner/training group" makes me suspect that some players are struggling to understand when they should attempt strike missions.

All I do with raids/strikes is pug them too -and while there occasionally happen to be a new player just randomly joining a squad when they have no idea what that content is or even how to enter it, it's so rare that I don't exactly remember when was the last time it happened. I'm also here to discuss how people ARE playing the game and someone being occasionally completely uninformed about it or being agitated because they totally need to rush content faster doesn't change a thing of what I said. If people "have trouble reaching WT or Arborstone" or "don't understand that they need to buy expansion to play expansion-specific content"(🫣) then entering SMs is probably the least of their problem. The story is basically a new content guide and your argument seems to be nothing else than that since new players are so confused, they should be urged by anet to skip said guide.

Edited March 19 by Sobx.1758

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

16 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

Yet anyone who wants 10 man content has to suffer through story that's dull, lacking engagement, and can be passed by alt tabbing and auto attacking on most classes.  Just force me to do the story mode at the instance like how dungeons did it and allow me to open my own instances after I finish story but join other's instances without having to do the story.

When I got expansion for my alt I did each Strike a good 10 times before I even bothered to START any of the expansions. EoTN is opened to anyone who has PoF,, you can enter Arborstone with a TP to friend even without doing EOD, you can also visit expansion maps through GH for free or via TP to friend, you only need to own the content, no need to start it.
So, yeah, make sure you're up to date with the game before making claims.

You're not forced to do anything in the game, if you don't like something don't do it, it's that simple. 

[Smoky.5348]

Remember core Tyria personal story where we had skippable cutscenes and animated characters when they talk? Best of both worlds back then.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

14 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

When I got expansion for my alt I did each Strike a good 10 times before I even bothered to START any of the expansions. EoTN is opened to anyone who has PoF,, you can enter Arborstone with a TP to friend even without doing EOD, you can also visit expansion maps through GH for free or via TP to friend, you only need to own the content, no need to start it.
So, yeah, make sure you're up to date with the game before making claims.

You're not forced to do anything in the game, if you don't like something don't do it, it's that simple. 

I am.
TP to friend is not a valid solution as it's a cash shop substitute for advancing through the story. (And no, the freebies from bday rewards aren't a valid option.)
I did say that the  strikes that came with IBS didn't require story.  Here's what I said specifically:

On 3/18/2024 at 3:28 AM, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

It's more
"Go to this map and assemble a party to go through this dungeon after doing a story mode instance."
to
"Increase your fractal level for more challenge and better rewards."
to
"Here's a self contained side-story in raids that elaborates on what's going on elsewhere and also has some neat rewards."
to
"Here are several strike missions you don't need to do story for."
to
"Here are several strike missions you have to do story for."

Personally, I'd rather not have to play through the baby mode of the boss after several hours of mid-tier storytelling and just experience the new strike missions as I did before EoD and SotO.  I don't have as much free time as I used to and I'd rather spend it playing something I enjoy.

First one is dungeons, second one is fractals, third is raids, fourth is strikes from IBS, fifth are strikes from EoD onwards.  Dungeons aren't comparable.  While yes, you had to do story mode to open an explorable mode instance and used to have to be on the same map, story mode and time to travel to the dungeon is substantially shorter than having to do half of an expansion's story.  Fractals do the tiered content delivery correctly allowing newbies to experience the content and not forcing people familiar with the content to have to go through the T1/T2/T3 variant of the new fractal until they can do it on T4/CM.  Raids were just open on delivery and now they have emboldened mode for newbies to get into.  Strikes started as open content for people to freely get into at their leisure with IBS and now they're separate with every single new release having a new spot that players have to go to in order to get the prompt to join.

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

TP to friend is not a valid solution as it's a cash shop substitute for advancing through the story. (And no, the freebies from bday rewards aren't a valid option.)

 

TP2F is perfectly valid.  Just because you don't like a particular option does not make it invalid. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

TP2F is perfectly valid.  Just because you don't like a particular option does not make it invalid. 

It's a paid for option, so no, it's not.  Telling a new player who doesn't enjoy the story and wants to do instanced content "Well either slog through the story or buy these limited use items (Or the permanent variant if/when it's on sale) to skip it." is not valid.

[costepj.5120]

37 minutes ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

It's a paid for option

I've never paid for any TP2Fs and I have nearly two stacks' worth.

[UNDEAD.6108]

Original comment deleted because i don't want argue about all content not be unlocked right at the start of the game.

Edited March 20 by UNDEAD.6108

[Charall.4710]

Please force us to do more story to progress the game.

[Obtena.7952]

CHOOSES to play an MMORPG ... complains they have to do the story to progress.

Someone didn't read the label ... 

Eagerly anticipated PART 2: Complaining there isn't enough content

Edited March 20 by Obtena.7952

[Charall.4710]

I am getting pretty tired of not having enough story in this game to unlock more game updates/features. Good acting, skippable cutscenes, amazing voices, and great content are EXACTLY the way to encourage players to remain. I want to play all parts of the game including the ones I am not interested in - I want to be forced to do everything. And having PvP oriented stuff as an "alternative" takes away from the overall game due to it not fitting the notion of forcing us to do everything to progress.

How about this: We buy the game you sold, and you give us the game we didn't buy, without any ability to skip cutscenes but instead with tricks to spring on us later as you always do.

[Charall.4710]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

CHOOSES to play an MMORPG ... complains they have to do the story to progress.

Someone didn't read the label ... 

Eagerly anticipated PART 2: Complaining there isn't enough content

Your wish is my command xD

Stop Forcing us part II: Not Enough Content

Edited March 20 by Charall.4710

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, costepj.5120 said:

I've never paid for any TP2Fs and I have nearly two stacks' worth.

I'm in the same boat, but that's because I have way too many alt characters (they were my build templates before build templates), but a brand new player wouldn't have stacks of these, even after a year.

57 minutes ago, UNDEAD.6108 said:

Actually you can get teleport to friend for free just by playing the game and you can even get the permanent variant for free too just by buying gems with gold.

Yes, let's spend an even longer time farming gold to convert to gems for the privilege of working around this oddity in how instanced content is being delivered.

  

32 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

CHOOSES to play an MMORPG ... complains they have to do the story to progress.

Someone didn't read the label ... 

Eagerly anticipated PART 2: Complaining there isn't enough content

I was pretty content running the same 7 raid wings, 5 IBS strikes, and set of T4/CM fractals for the past 3ish years when I started getting into instanced content, I'll be fine running the newer strikes as well.  This story gating with strikes is also something ANet has only recently decided to do with EoD and SotO.

Edited March 20 by Epsilon Indi.2031

[Ashen.2907]

I dont see the benefit of locking gameplay features behind story content. Those who enjoy the story were going to do it anyway while pushing story on those disinterested in it seems more likely to drive them away from the game than it is to get them interested in the story.  No upside. 

[starlinvf.1358]

15 hours ago, Smoky.5348 said:

Remember core Tyria personal story where we had skippable cutscenes and animated characters when they talk? Best of both worlds back then.

Yet people still complained.  “2012 and how can any game be so lazy as to have separate cut scenes”. 

Just when I have hope general audiences get a little bit media literate, they learn the wrong kitten thing about the subject.  

[starlinvf.1358]

23 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I dont see the benefit of locking gameplay features behind story content. Those who enjoy the story were going to do it anyway while pushing story on those disinterested in it seems more likely to drive them away from the game than it is to get them interested in the story.  No upside. 

I can think of two off the top of my head.  Context, and tutorialization.  Two things players have routinely complain about when they skip it.   

You don’t know stupid until you were in Bloodstone Fen, and people still don’t know to press Special action when the red beam hits them.  And they wonder how they got one shot. 

Even then. The number of people who can’t beat the boss in head of the snake, despite spending the last 3 story missions throwing blood stone shards at things to break shields, is mind boggling. 

Edited March 20 by starlinvf.1358

[Ashen.2907]

33 minutes ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

I can think of two off the top of my head.  Context, and tutorialization.  Two things players have routinely complain about when they skip it.   

You don’t know stupid until you were in Bloodstone Fen, and people still don’t know to press Special action when the red beam hits them.  And they wonder how they got one shot. 

Even then. The number of people who can’t beat the boss in head of the snake, despite spending the last 3 story missions throwing blood stone shards at things to break shields, is mind boggling. 

I dont see how that applies to having access to a new weapon for your preferred class so you can play a given build in a strike mission (as just one example).

Edit: to be clear, I do prefer the new mechanical aspects of a release to be available early on so that I can play the new content with them, but am not upset about playing a chapter or two first. Then again I may be "spoiled" by having huge quantities of WvW currencies at my disposal.

Edited March 20 by Ashen.2907

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Epsilon Indi.2031 said:

I am.
TP to friend is not a valid solution as it's a cash shop substitute for advancing through the story. (And no, the freebies from bday rewards aren't a valid option.)
I did say that the  strikes that came with IBS didn't require story.  Here's what I said specifically:

TP2F is an option considering your problem is being forced to do the story, if your issue is having to pay - you can actually get them for free - then I suppose your issue is also having to buy the expansions to do the content, right? 

You get TP2 Friend from birthday gifts, booster packs, which are given as an extra for buying an expansion and you can even get them from BL chests, so there is a free stream of TP2 Friend in the game that you simply don't have to pay for.

[Smoky.5348]

2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You get TP2 Friend from birthday gifts, booster packs, which are given as an extra for buying an expansion and you can even get them from BL chests, so there is a free stream of TP2 Friend in the game that you simply don't have to pay for.

At the risk of an unwanted interjection, I think you're missing the point. The complaint isn't that they're free, it's that the stream trickles in slowly and they have to be managed like a resource. They are not given out like candy, and the more characters you have, the thinner your reserve of them gets. And, just because it's possible to amass a large amount when you play the game for a long time doesn't mean they're quick to come across when you don't play a lot.

3 hours ago, starlinvf.1358 said:

Yet people still complained.  “2012 and how can any game be so lazy as to have separate cut scenes”. 

Just when I have hope general audiences get a little bit media literate, they learn the wrong kitten thing about the subject.  

Yep, and look at our current alternative: characters standing around, animated with emotes, barely moving their mouth, maybe they walk somewhere. Those complainers might have had a point back then, but we have retrospect now.

And, no, the general audiences may never be media literate. Just look at me.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

44 minutes ago, Smoky.5348 said:

At the risk of an unwanted interjection, I think you're missing the point. The complaint isn't that they're free, it's that the stream trickles in slowly and they have to be managed like a resource. They are not given out like candy, and the more characters you have, the thinner your reserve of them gets. And, just because it's possible to amass a large amount when you play the game for a long time doesn't mean they're quick to come across when you don't play a lot.

You don't need to use them carefully.
My 1 year old alt account still has 20 of them laying around and I've been using them to bring low level characters to LW maps to try to do map completion on each at level ~5. I've not been using them carefully, I've literally TP2F'd to Orr early on, when that account had no mounts to jump over the gate in Lornar's.
The game is giving out more TP2F than one needs and it's visible.

[Sobx.1758]

52 minutes ago, Smoky.5348 said:

At the risk of an unwanted interjection, I think you're missing the point. The complaint isn't that they're free, it's that the stream trickles in slowly and they have to be managed like a resource. They are not given out like candy, and the more characters you have, the thinner your reserve of them gets. And, just because it's possible to amass a large amount when you play the game for a long time doesn't mean they're quick to come across when you don't play a lot.

Then play the story (not even half of it) once, get the scroll and use them across the characters. Or farm up the gold and buy the infinite tp2f.