Siege Disabler Change

[Nomad.4301]

If they REALLY had to nerf it like this, in a way that literally no-one was asking for, then they should've at LEAST doubled the duration to 60s, and made it also slow down the attack and cooldown speed of the affected siege by 66% so it works on all siege (shield generators anyone?) this would have at least made it feel more like a change of design and less of a straight up nerf for the sake of boon blobs.

The entire purpose of a siege disabler was to stall a large zerg long enough to allow defenders time to rally, often times even with totally stopping the enemies siege it wasn't enough to stop them, boonballs can literally stand in 10 AC's worth of AoEs and melee down the gate if their rams were destroyed/disabled, blobs didn't need more help.

Seriously, which of you trolled a Dev's boon blob with disablers?

PS; Not to mention you could already avoid being hit with disablers by just spreading out your siege and/or using ventari bubbles to shield it.. So it's not like there wasn't already multiple counters.

Edited March 21 by Nomad.4301

[XenesisII.1540]

7 hours ago, Zepoolpe.9217 said:

Anet is perfectly able to do stupid things on their own: they've been proving it at each patch these days.

True, unfortunately. 😏

But they don't have discussions in the forums, and they only run with certain blobs to carry them in wvw.

And yeah this might have been a case of some thief trolling them too much with disablers one night.

Oh anet... you want a deathmatch ktrain for your boon blobs, just make the change already and stop kittening the rest of us off every patch.

[Ronin.4501]

Remember when they added the portable cannons and the community hated it and they promptly removed it within 1-2 days?  I miss those days. I miss those devs.

[XenesisII.1540]

25 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Remember when they added the portable cannons and the community hated it and they promptly removed it within 1-2 days?  I miss those days. I miss those devs.

I would actually welcome portable cannons now for more shot 1 boon strip. 🤭

[TheGrimm.5624]

42 minutes ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Remember when they added the portable cannons and the community hated it and they promptly removed it within 1-2 days?  I miss those days. I miss those devs.

I was just rereading some of those threads lately looking for a reference I was remembering but looking for and I admit I think the "no-change we good side of the forums" blocked more development and/or might have been again who were the initial ideas from. But the openness of the conversation and the back and fourth were awesome and are missing these days. Now why did this interaction go away? Could be lots of reasons that range from Mgt decisions to Devs that were open to discuss to policy changes and a ton of other reasons. It is hard to tell. 

[ZerFrost.3542]

It is basically a siege damper or a weakness debuff for siege.

They need to revert it, I have 24 and im just trying to free up bag space now

[urd.8306]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:33 AM, LordHT.8297 said:

In fact, I think this change was a buff to defense and kind of fixes the mistake they made wile ago by buffing the hp of some sieges.
Now with the disable debuff you can kill the enemy sieges very quickly, so instead of just delaying them, now you can simply kill their sieges very easily. If you combine the disable with a ballista, cannon, mortar or whatever, you can wipe the enemy's sieges very quickly. But of course, this requires some coordination and that's why I think it's not so overpowering.

Sure, so you just throw 6 rams and good bye defense because before you even bring a ram down to 50% the gate is down and at least 50% of the siege in the keep useless (or dead in the next 2 minutes)

And that's not even taking into account that most siege is a death trap anyway because of pulls and the option to shoot over walls.

Edited March 27 by urd.8306

[Aeolus.3615]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:17 PM, alteriel valie.4751 said:

(...)
All i see is, they managed to make ppt faster now!

And why would u think Anet had better interest in making game more difficult to pvd zergs or try to balance their power against structures?

I once had a pm from a dev in EOTM when eotm was a thing, the dev said that i was ruining other players experience.. i was alone with one ac vs  100 or so.. dont expect Anet to make gameplay better...

Edited March 27 by Aeolus.3615

[Gehenna.3625]

On 3/21/2024 at 3:17 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Wait...disablers no longer disable?!

😂

Dev's are 35/40 y/o's with Gen Z mindsets--just BLOB GOES BRRRR

I can't even

They're called Siege Disruptors now

[Firefly.5982]

Personally, I liked disablers but I did constantly see people moan about how annoying disablers are and wishing they'd just get rid of them already. So I guess it's sample bias 😁

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

[Dawdler.8521]

4 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

Except that's not what happens in reality - the zerg has more than enough supplies to build more.

[ArchonWing.9480]

33 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

If 50 people can't cycle 3 bubbles or blocks between all of them and managed to clump 50 people's worth of supples towards siege together,  they are afk and should be doing literally nothing.

Edited March 27 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

If you have 50 players then you are set to deploy 25 blueprints, if 1 disabler stopped this then something went wrong in the attack either in supply management, siege placement or too many AFK versus being active in the attack. In the 30 seconds of delay the group of 50 should have been able to just get another set of siege up and running. Disablers were never more than delaying tactics and a risky one for classes without stealth.

Maybe we need a few new tricks; powder keg & napalm bomb.

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

They're called Siege Disruptors now

I blame CMCnomics

[CutesySylveon.8290]

10 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

Any Ventari Rev could protect a piece of siege almost indefinitely, and 2 shield generators could have 100% uptime if either has alacrity. You were also revealed when throwing Disables, so if you were on guard, you could react to the toss, especially from a distance. There was 0 reason to be shut down for extended periods of time by disables. Spreading siege out to be out of range by one disable also drastically reduced their effectiveness. 

At LEAST let us disable Shield Gens so we can actually do damage to siege with our own siege. Shield Gens are some of the most ridiculous pieces of equipment in the game mode. And if we can't disable rams and catas, make the item be unblockable. It's absolutely unreasonable to nerf the tool so much when it already had so much counterplay without making it more usable in its current iteration. If you aren't going to revert it, make it possible to get use out of now. Heck, make it double cooldowns on siege skills. SOMETHING!

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

10 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

If 50 people can't cycle 3 bubbles or blocks between all of them and managed to clump 50 people's worth of supples towards siege together,  they are afk and should be doing literally nothing.

25 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Any Ventari Rev could protect a piece of siege almost indefinitely, and 2 shield generators could have 100% uptime if either has alacrity. You were also revealed when throwing Disables, so if you were on guard, you could react to the toss, especially from a distance. There was 0 reason to be shut down for extended periods of time by disables. Spreading siege out to be out of range by one disable also drastically reduced their effectiveness. 

At LEAST let us disable Shield Gens so we can actually do damage to siege with our own siege. Shield Gens are some of the most ridiculous pieces of equipment in the game mode. And if we can't disable rams and catas, make the item be unblockable. It's absolutely unreasonable to nerf the tool so much when it already had so much counterplay without making it more usable in its current iteration. If you aren't going to revert it, make it possible to get use out of now. Heck, make it double cooldowns on siege skills. SOMETHING!

8 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

If you have 50 players then you are set to deploy 25 blueprints, if 1 disabler stopped this then something went wrong in the attack either in supply management, siege placement or too many AFK versus being active in the attack. In the 30 seconds of delay the group of 50 should have been able to just get another set of siege up and running. Disablers were never more than delaying tactics and a risky one for classes without stealth.

Maybe we need a few new tricks; powder keg & napalm bomb.

 

None of this argues that disablers were good design. You are all just saying "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine".

[CutesySylveon.8290]

20 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

None of this argues that disablers were good design. You are all just saying "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine".

They were a good design because they had potential to stop or slow larger groups in meaningful ways in order to buy time. The strong potential of their optimal use was offset by the litany of ways to counter them. 

[XenesisII.1540]

24 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

None of this argues that disablers were good design. You are all just saying "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine".

Projectile counters are plentiful in the game, and they would completely counter a siege disabler if blocked, don't think in turn it's unfair that a disabler could completely disable a siege if it got through. All it required was one person to be awake and paying attention tot he enemy. 🤷‍♂️

[ArchonWing.9480]

46 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

None of this argues that disablers were good design. You are all just saying "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine".

I'm not arguing that disablers are good design. I'm saying your argument is bad because the example has no application in reality  (1 person stopping a group of 50 who can't be bothered to build more siege or have the most basic of counters, eschewing meta classes,  or like.... pvdooring) It should be obvious that a group that can't even handle basic things like that  isn't going to be very effective regardless, siege disables or not and thus will be spending a ton of time doing nothing anyways.

We generally expect people in this discussion to be able to grasp basic concepts of WvW, yes. If all you gathered from that is "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine", then that is the problem.

Also btw it's not just projectile defense that stops disables.

Edited March 28 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

None of this argues that disablers were good design. You are all just saying "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine".

Good design? I think what we were saying is if it slowed you down, maybe you should ask why did it? So why did it slow your assault? 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I'm not arguing that disablers are good design. I'm saying your argument is bad because the example has no application in reality  (1 person stopping a group of 50 who can't be bothered to build more siege or have the most basic of counters, eschewing meta classes,  or like.... pvdooring) It should be obvious that a group that can't even handle basic things like that  isn't going to be very effective regardless, siege disables or not and thus will be spending a ton of time doing nothing anyways.

We generally expect people in this discussion to be able to grasp basic concepts of WvW, yes. If all you gathered from that is "but you can counter it with proj defense so its fine", then that is the problem.

Also btw it's not just projectile defense that stops disables.

Tis ok, the fact that they tried to roll all the different reasons into one made me pause and question whether to reply. Forum Wars 2, the game within the game. In the end the fact that they saw multiple issues as the same, made it easy to answer that question lol.

[Gehenna.3625]

17 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

If people keep putting all their siege close together then surely that's the attackers' fault?

[Aeolus.3615]

20 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Except that's not what happens in reality - the zerg has more than enough supplies to build more.

if the zerg got all siege disabled by 1 disabler :D.. they deserve it

 

Zergs that are used to get carried with pvd never learn.

[TexZero.7910]

22 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Hot Take: Siege disablers were garbage design. 1 thief or mes uses stealth and throws something and now 50 people get to stand around for a minute doing literally nothing. If people want defenders to counter siege then there are other things that should be done.

Ah, we found the tilted dev who posts on his personal account.

Edited March 28 by TexZero.7910