WvW World Restructuring Beta Feedback and Future

[len.7809]

After 3 weeks of WR, and from what I've heard of the friends in different servers.

We don't need t6, maybe even t5, after the first 2 weeks of alliance, the queue dropped significantly. Non WvW players joined WvW to check, get dissapointed and left.

Boonball meta is making things less enjoyable, players that are in a team without a solid 30+ zerg that can do a proper boonball can't win, even clouding.

Some teams are already avoiding fighting the oponent team because they are getting face rolled, they went to ppt and then skip the mu until next week.

WvW is favored towards the attacking side. Sometimes, repairing is not supply-wise worth it. Letting them capture a papel keep and retake it later cost less resources. *ppt train*.

----------------

Alliance guild, AKA 6th slot guild should have the option to select if they are blobbing players mostly , roaming players mostly or a mix of both for better distribution of guilds when making a team.

 

[Mabi black.1824]

On 7/3/2024 at 6:01 PM, astina.3862 said:

WvW is also not only about the guild you belong to its also about server community

Yes please. Finally someone is coming to us slowly slowly, even if some of us have been saying it for 3 years now. And where is the ''stupid'' rhetoric that servers are dead, or ''just create your own alliance''. Better late than never, my grandfather said.

Edited July 5 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

On 7/4/2024 at 12:05 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Which would be amusing since it's one of the examples of how utterly stacked worlds could be. The PPK crew of WSR has gotten split up on 2-3 different teams and they still dominate for those teams.

And in fact you continue to argue that the limit of 500 is absolutely adequate to build ''similar'' teams to each other. That seems more than logical to me.

I'm sure it's another one of those things that people will slowly slowly understand. My grandfather was never wrong. He was a wise man.

Edited July 5 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

21 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

And in fact you continue to argue that the limit of 500 is absolutely adequate to build ''similar'' teams to each other.

Never argued that, only that alliances can’t be anything else with the current 500 man guild cap. I will assume it’s alliances we are talking about even though they aren’t implemented, since teams aren’t limited to 500.

[JenniChu.9124]

I think it just got it worse with multiple match ups with clouds, now, we need a commander buffs or something within 450 units so we can have proper commanders leading instead of just trying to eliminate people poking and running all the time

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, JenniChu.9124 said:

I think it just got it worse with multiple match ups with clouds, now, we need a commander buffs or something within 450 units so we can have proper commanders leading instead of just trying to eliminate people poking and running all the time

Tags don't need extra buffs, they have them already by drawing people into a location to them by tagging up. It's a matter of reading the morale of your group and setting up expectations even if not in voice. Works the same in all scales of play. The larger the group the more you need to reinforce the idea. If all else fails, stay on your tag if you are choosing to follow one. 

 

Edited July 7 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[meerfunkuhtron.9725]

On 6/21/2024 at 11:40 AM, Mighty Ice Arrow.9268 said:

Interesting is we don't see any Anet tags

The only time I've seen an Anet dev is when we're up against Indo's group. I don't even know who that particularly is, other than they lead a large guild and Anet seems to love them so they're who the devs follow. I feel like if Anet actually wants to make WvW better, the one thing they should not do is just follow one or two groups. I don't know who taught them how to properly conduct research and gather information, but this method is the opposite of that.
 

On 6/19/2024 at 8:54 PM, NerevarineNinja.1643 said:

But in general, I guess I was very attached to Darkhaven.  I was friends with so many people throughout the guilds.  

One thing I don't understand: we are still having massively unfair population imbalance issues.  WTF?  It's really sad to me that my our communities were disbanded and scattered to the winds and were not even getting the one positive thing that was the goal of this change.

I just wanted to add to this, as it greatly emphasizes my own thoughts and feedback.
Many of us wanted to keep the server format. However, a lot of people (including Anet) also expressed their disinterest in keeping communities together, as if it's something only "sentimental people" cared about and that it has no effect on WvW whatsoever.
But to me, the mere fact that this game mode is about playing in teams against others in a battlefield should have been the biggest clue that communities definitely mattered. Because these communities = established teams, and more established teams (IE: ones who are familiar with each other and have learned each other's playstyles, allowing them to complement each other and communicate better) means better outcomes. It's the same thing in any competitive play. And unlike other modes like sPvP where matches are short and people couldn't care less about who they're playing with as long as they won, WvW offered the benefits of playing within a long-established team with familiar people. I think a lot of us who preferred this game mode over the other partly did so for this very reason.

Anet and proponents for this change also seemed to think that guilds could replace server communities. I've argued before that this wouldn't be the case, especially since it meant we were still going to be paired with other random groups for each match-up (since the Alliance system is still not a thing).
Guilds have definitely been important, but its role was to provide a means for players to further customize their experience within the game mode and the server they were in. And equally important was the existence of the server itself because it provided that much needed cohesion and familiarity that allowed for the unique mix of groups and individuals to coexist. That cohesion went away the moment servers dissolved. Cue in the clusterf**k.

When servers were a thing, it was easier to know what to expect, but even when surprises happened, we still had a good idea of how to deal with it. Because again, the familiarity that established communities brought made this possible.
With the current setup (and honestly, ever since server linking was introduced), this obviously isn't attainable at least for those of us who don't have the ability to form a guild large enough to populate a full world. No. Most of us are playing in guilds that are thrown alongside other guilds who have very different ways of playing and communicating, and have different goals. The only hope I have is if the Alliance system ever becomes an actual system, as we'd be given the chance to form a more proper replacement for what were our servers. Until then, we'll be left with this kind of experience until WvW finally completely dies or we all move on.

[One more for the road.8950]

Just a heads up that devs that has absolutely nothing to do with WvW can also play the game mode. So an Anet tag you come across in fractals doesn't need to be a dev working on a fractal and one in WvW doesn't need to be one that works with WvW. They might be someone working with props or audio or whatever else, for example. So in essence, someone just like you or me, that has nothing to do with the mode mechanics or balance.

Edited July 8 by One more for the road.8950

[meerfunkuhtron.9725]

1 minute ago, One more for the road.8950 said:

Just a heads up that devs that has absolutely nothing to do with WvW can also play the game mode. So an Anet tag you come across in fractals doesn't need to be a dev working on a fractal and one in WvW doesn't need to be one that works with WvW. They might be someone working with props or audio or whatever else, for example. So in essence, someone just like you or me, that has nothing to do with the mode mechanics or balance.

That is a good point. Though I think it's still worth noting that they tend to follow the same group of people.
The last time I've seen a dev on our team was several years ago, I'd say back in 2016 or even before then. And the only other times I've seen one since was when we were against the group/server of the aforementioned streamer, albeit very rarely. If it isn't anything else, it's at least a bit odd.

[Riba.3271]

Oh, I long for the days when I could transfer to a server I wanted to. It isn't even that I was bandvagoning, as I went pretty much everywhere to see what it was like. Sometimes I settled for years focusing on building stronger and more unified server. Freedom of choice is gone and now guild tyrants rule WvW.

Now it is quite obvious from 1st week if you are going to enjoy WvW for the month. Can't do anything about it. Hopeless situation.

Edited July 9 by Riba.3271

[Hyper.1987]

I rarely post, but MMO is all about creating/preserving different communities.

This "restructuring" BS has single-handedly destroyed more communities than you thought.

Whoever in the dev team think this is a good idea, and 'celebrate its success' should be ashamed.

[Cameirus.8407]

Anet, just admit that you done goofed. and restore previous servers. give everyone 1 single free server transfer to make sure they can move about if they want, then we can all agree to forget this whole silly idea and pretend it never happened ok?

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I miss some of the names in chat but otherwise the issue for me is the population.  Even when SBI was a full on T4 server on a link, we could count on a fair showing at reset and most EST evenings to at least have a map or two with action.  The current matchup I'm in is dead as a doornail - and we're ahead.  Maybe my mornings have lots of sea time players or its OCX, but in any case, it feels like their might be to many servers for the number of players taking part of wvw. 

My playtime has dwindled every time the alter the game to favor the blobs.  I used to lap diamond a few times each week.  Now I'm rarely making it to gold.   

[Squeakywitch.5381]

On 3/26/2024 at 7:19 AM, ascii.1369 said:

As far as I can tell that already happens. Guilds and commanders switch server on a fairly regular basis and teams keep being reshuffled through server linking.

If anything the new system will give you more stability, assuming you join a large community guild. If I remember correctly, a full guild will make up the majority (or all?) of a team. So your environment will be more stable than the current server environment with guilds and commanders constantly switching around.

Sorry but I dont see your Stability.  I still see the same over powered Blobs and Ques on a daily basis.  They havent fixed anything.  Where as before we could at least count on being able to keep at least one WP besides Citadel, now that doesnt happen at all.  We are constantly Outnumbered, and the Que's are still as crazy as before.  Not to mention the  Huge groups of Overpowered Boon Balls that they keep coming at us with is unreal.  What the Hell.  I thought we were supposed to get some of this stuff fixed.  Instead its worse than before. 

[NerevarineNinja.1643]

Hey! It's Astrya.  Hope everyone is well.

Ok, so Follow up feedback...

I switched to Moogooloo/joined a new guild. (the new guild is great) I've reconnected with a few people from Darkhaven so that's nice 🙂

I'm still REALLY sad that the rest of my old WvW friends are scattered all over the place.  (i've seen some of u on enemy team 😛)

 

My number one observation is that population coverage is SOOO inconsistent right now.  One day we're slightly outnumbered but holding our own at the time i play, the next we're so ridiculously outnumbered there's little hope.  Same time of the night, Tuesday compared to Wednesday... (it seems like they've staked everything on guilds, it's ALL about when the large guilds are online i guess? it was a huge factor before, but on Darkhaven it wasn't the defining factor, PUGs could handle things usually on the off hours. Maybe the new comunities aren't fully formed and the PUG team work and synergy will increase overtime)

I really hope they can continue to improve the population coverage balancing. (Am i understanding that exactly this was the main goal of this update? right?)

I wish the devs at Anet the best of luck in this endeavor, although I still disagree with their decision to disband the legacy servers and scatter/destroy the old communities, I want to support GW2, and WvW, and hope that they can improve going forwards.

 

Above all I want us to maintain (or grow) our WvW player base.

Which brings me to my next point, and my largest concern.  Yohlon Haven kinda seemed like it was bleeding people in the off times.  Like, people who were used to playing late PST were just getting so discouraged they were logging off in droves or going to PvE.  99% casuals nope'd out during that time zone, unless they were lucky enough to meet me on a night I was doing PPT because everything else was hopeless.  

I saw the same thing happening on Moogooloo tonight.  Now i understand a lot of people have been on their last push to defend garri or whatever for a while becasue it's actually the end of their day, so it's natural ppl are leaving.

But i am worried that this situation is so discouraging for some people, especially casuals or ppl new to WvW, that we are actually losing people from the margins.  Not from the main time zone mmind you, where it wouldn't matter much, but from the margins, where EVERY single person really counts and has to participate because there's far less pop coverage to begin with.

One of my favorite things to do on Darkhaven was help people new to WvW!  You may be surprised at how often that was.  Lots of people were hopping in for gift of battle or something and they would get hooked after following my tag or roaming with me for a few days in a row. 

I've had that experience ZERO times since restructure.  No new ppl at all that i've run into.  Which is a big change from what i'm used to. 

So my major concern is that we will loose people who would normally populate the off hours margins.  Some maybe permanently.  And maybe discourage new players who would naturally play at that time too. All my friends (most from this time zone of course, its when i play) sounds a bit discouraged, or admit to very unfavorable match ups, borderlands empty of allies but and full of enemies, or  empty of everyone... etc.  Some are very discouraged.

BTW anyone who is in that situation, I encourage you to speak out, not toxically of course, but share! even if your experience is negative and it's emotional for you.  

As always just my thoughts and experience, I'm not perfect, and I don't expect WvW or GW2 or Anet to be.  

I wish everyone the best in these turbulent times!

 

Sincerely, 

Someone who was on Darkhaven since launch and considered that server my family ❤️

Edited July 11 by NerevarineNinja.1643

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Figured I’d put my two cents in here. So far I have not enjoyed WR at all, although I am not opposed to it in theory. I think it has been hard for me to gauge because it came at the same time as 5 tiers (for NA), which to me has been a bigger contributing factor to the game mode feeing significantly more inactive. Roaming in particular seems to have been hit the hardest, but I’m not going to pretend it was even close to being in a thriving state beforehand. I am in a pretty fight-heavy WR guild with a lot of very active WvW players, so while it’s nice to have that on my side, the matchmaking for this linking seems heavily stacked in our favor, which consequently just makes it boring for all sides. 
I am extremely ignorant to how the data calculations work, but if I had to take a guess, the matchmaking algorithm has a lot less to work with at this point and SHOULD get better over time. So from my perspective it’s too early for me to really judge how WR as a whole feels with just one pairing. Not to mention that over the weeks I have noticed a lot of people slowly trickle into the server (Tombs of Drascir), so it gives me the impression that people are exploiting the lenient transferring tickets that Support is fulfilling. Probably because there are still issues with people not being shuffled properly. But it just makes everything a little more extreme.

Honestly my biggest feeling so far is that 5 tiers for NA feels really bad and is making WR feel worse than it actually is. Having fewer queues is admittedly super nice, but having what feels like significantly less content kinda takes away the appeal of the smaller queues. I wish we could have just 4 weeks for this pairing and try to go back down to 4 tiers to at least test the waters to see how it feels.

[coooldh.8314]

I am not the person who leaves the comment at the forum. but I really want to say that this new change absolutely ruined my joy of doing WvW. 

[Altex.6083]

I am starting to think this change was made as a help to content creators, because they can now follow their favorite streamer regardless of the servers, just don't represent any guild and pick team your person of interest plays. It does not seem to be helping with anything else. I should thank that one podcast where unnamed person was rejoicing they can play together with the audience. 

[Alternatex.5734]

either 0 stuff happening or your getting zerged or chanced down by zerg or it just ppt. lame, didn't think you could make wvw worst but proven wrong.

[nthmetal.9652]

On 6/17/2024 at 5:44 PM, Gud.6829 said:

Really? Becasue before this I could have skirmishes with folks on the server who knew when to avoid zergs.  New set up, no identity we're just drones, so kitten that, I'll play a game that doesn't see me as fodder for zerg players

Have fun in whatever game you're playing. And the situation with no one being around who knows how to avoid zergs:
a) that assumes your server has the exclusive klnowledge of how to do that, which I highly doubt
b) It seems the people who do know were also not able to organize within one of the new teams, which would have me question the first statement.

And finally: Can I have your stuff?
But really, enjoy whatever you're playing, have fun. We're all here to have fun after all.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:41 PM, JenniChu.9124 said:

I think it just got it worse with multiple match ups with clouds, now, we need a commander buffs or something within 450 units so we can have proper commanders leading instead of just trying to eliminate people poking and running all the time

sounds like a reason to sell catmander tags... every one is a commander now and it carries the zerg even more!

[Void.8921]

I roam and run with my guild (Bag) and it’s been a bit of a mixed bag (hah) week to week.

More so than pre-WR.

I believe we were against Mirror of Lyssa last week, they started in T6, but should’ve been at T1. I understand that the tiers are randomised, but our alliance has thankfully been pretty lucky (I believe we started in T3? Which is where our server was at pre-WR). 
While I don’t play on Mirror of Lyssa (apologies I can’t remember which guilds y’all consist of) I can’t help but feel (and I’m using them as an example because they definitely are the most obvious example of a faulty decision) that this must be insanely boring for everyone placed in the wrong spot.

It’s difficult to gauge anyone’s feelings on the restructuring if even 1/3rd of the people on your side decide to skip the week due to the impossible to beat competition (or because there’s no content if you’re on the winning side).

I know there are plenty of servers dealing with this issue. 

I do believe the WvW team is trying, don’t get me wrong, but it feels as if our concerns are overlooked and ignored. I’m new to the game, but people who’ve played for years love the gamemode despite its disrepair. But it’s tough to feel like we’re being listened to when things I believe everyone agrees should be fixed, aren’t being fixed.

By this I mean issues like: Missing walls on Red Borderlands, certain spots having broken contesting, unavoidable skill-lag that is only getting worse, queue bugs, etc. 

I understand that there’s a want and need for improvement from a dev pov, but I think a great deal of us feel as if you’re putting glitter on a broken leg. 
 

Just to add, so it doesn’t feel too negative: The added supply cap was something I didn’t realise we needed, but it’s been great! While I know a bunch of folks are against the wall repair change, I don’t mind it too much. It’s honestly added quite a lot of fun fights in various areas that usually didn’t have such long fights outside the Lord’s room. It’s also helped people get slightly more creative with siege placement to not waste all the tower/keeps/etc. supplies which I think is pretty fun too! (“How many arrow cats can we put on the stairs?”) 

I will admit our guild also had a bit of a laugh when we realised the synths in the Necro tower on RBL had been moved again.

It’s also been extremely interesting to witness not just how different people command, but also just new strategies in general. 
 

i’ve also found that so far, language barriers seem to have been less of an issue than pre-WR in my experience. 
 

Anyway! Long post! But I’ve been sitting on it for a bit, waiting to see how I feel about things. 

[hypehype.9047]

Thanks for killing WvW.

I love being outnumbered on EB!  durning prime time on a Sat/Sun.

 

Before randoms were able to defend bases, now it is not possible.

 

When guilds get wiped, they quit.

 

then the solo players get battred and stop playing.

You have made WVW worse

Edited July 21 by hypehype.9047

[Riba.3271]

M O N O S E R V E R S

Lets go. Slay this evil system and let a new dawn arise.

Edited July 23 by Riba.3271

[Doghouse.1562]

Just my 2 penn'orth - and two sides of the same coin: lack of control over where you play.

First. As one of my guild colleagues put it this morning - you're now effectively a prisoner of WvW until at least the next team creation. Had a falling out with your guild? Want to go play somewhere else? Hard luck. Just paying to move to a server of your choice isn't an option. Wait, roll the dice and hope.

Secondly. If you really want to play with a particular guild, but you're not currently in their server, you're reliant on them having spaces in their roster that they're prepared to allow you to take up. And as the system pretty much obliges people to form umbrella guilds to make sure that everyone can stick together without individual guilds having to totally give up their autonomy, that's not a foregone conclusion. (I have an alt account that I now want to WvW on from time to time. After the intial matchup it ended up on a different server to the friends I want to play with. Arranging the invites to be able to do so after the coming reshuffle could easily have been tricky.)

Oh - and the scoring?  Don't get me started. Let's just say that it hasn't been kind to my faction.

Edited July 24 by Doghouse.1562