Power De-Creep. What would you adjust?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just for fun, what would you 'adjust' nerf to lower some power creep on each of the classes? Any game mode, feel free to give suggestions for each mode for each class if you want, or limit it to just one mode if you prefer.

I'm interested in seeing what people think overall.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Mhhh. My first thought would be nerfing boons. Like Fury and might.

But realistically, that only hurts the people who need the powercreep the most. The casuals. 

Good people just clear everything with ease anyway. 

Thats the big problem with the pve powercreep. Even with the insane power level we have right now, it just doesn't seem to translate to the casuals who see 20k dps as a big hill to climb. 

 

In Wvw however..... 

Nerf boons hard. 

15% Fury. 

Might power/condi reduced to 10 per stack. 

Protection to 10% dmg reduction. 

Etc. 

[Beddo.1907]

I think those should work to some degree:
-Longer cooldowns on offensive skills would lower power, while keeping the builds easy for more casual players.
-Reduce the number of damage/damaging buffs, so rotations are less bursty and punish less for being slower.
-Do better job teaching players about gear and stats, resulting is smaller gap in gear and less unequal loss/gain from nerfs/buffs between skill levels.
-The biggest bandaid fix imaginable, damage efficiency drop when going past certain dps threshold.

WvW only: yeet the cele gear. Like seriously this set is ridiculous on certain classes and gives pure numerical advantage.

[Dadnir.5038]

Personally I'd focus mainly on a rework of the stat sets.

- I'd limit the maximum of stats offered by armor stat sets to 3 stats and runes would focus on 2 stats.

- I'd separate the healing power stat into 4 stats:

• Constitution: Increase incoming healing and barrier effects.
• Fervor: Increase outgoing healing and barrier effects.

- I'd make sure that all conditions on AA can only be applied on a critical hit (to force "condi dps" to get precision in order to be potent).

 

[shion.2084]

Mobility Creep.  Making the Zerg viable because everyone has insanely power crept movement speed now significantly reduced the strategy in PvP.   Start with mobility creep.  Make those classes that got big damage and big invuln's/CC/defence slow as rocks.

[Antycypator.9874]

There's no point of nerfing classes, or buffing enemies. Just fix goddamn boons, because they're causing players to do at least 2x more damage.

1. Quickness — I see two solutions here:
* Nerf action speed from 50% to maybe 33 or even 25% — Quickness is very common across all professions, everyone can generate it, sometimes without investing in Boon Duration. If it's so common, then make it weaker.
* Reduce the amount of quickness across all professions. If we want to keep 100% boost from Quickness, then it shouldn't be permanent. Use quickness to burst stuff, don't make it a part of our lives.

2. Alacrity — could use a little rework.
* Again: reduce the amount of Alacrity in the game and make it shorter, but stronger.

3. Might — too powerful for being so common.
* Simply nerf numbers: stacks or just stats.

 

Edited April 22 by Antycypator.9874

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Mhhh. My first thought would be nerfing boons. Like Fury and might.

But realistically, that only hurts the people who need the powercreep the most. The casuals. 

Good people just clear everything with ease anyway. 

Thats the big problem with the pve powercreep. Even with the insane power level we have right now, it just doesn't seem to translate to the casuals who see 20k dps as a big hill to climb. 

 

In Wvw however..... 

Nerf boons hard. 

15% Fury. 

Might power/condi reduced to 10 per stack. 

Protection to 10% dmg reduction. 

Etc. 

As for nerfing might per stack, okay, but why nerfing fury?

Its basically a power only boon and would just make that condi is even more stronger than power. 

I mean with nerfing might and fury u would kinda nerf condi 1 time and power 2 times.

 

In blob fights it probably wouldn't matter, but in roaming it would give power an extra (non-deserved) hit

Edited April 22 by SeTect.5918

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

As for nerfing might per stack, okay, but why nerfing fury?

Its basically a power only boon and would just make that condi is even more stronger than power. 

I mean with nerfing might and fury u would kinda nerf condi 1 time and power 2 times

Might also contributes to condition damage, and a fury nerf would hit condi builds as many have a condition application on crit trait along with condition application on crit sigils.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

There's no point of nerfing classes, or buffing enemies. Just fix goddamn boons, because they're causing players to do at least 2x more damage.

1. Quickness — I see two solutions here:
* Nerf action speed from 100% to maybe 50 or even 33% — Quickness is very common across all professions, everyone can generate it, sometimes without investing in Boon Duration. If it's so common, then make it weaker.
* Reduce the amount of quickness across all professions. If we want to keep 100% boost from Quickness, then it shouldn't be permanent. Use quickness to burst stuff, don't make it a part of our lives.

 

How about all quickness durations in excess of 2s get halved and in exchange the old attack speed increase of quickness gets brought back?

[Noodle Ant.1605]

for pve, id make a consideration for pulling healing back in line. its gotten to the point where glasscannons are allowed to completely facetank older t4 fractals while newer group content struggles to threaten players outside of cheap mechanics that delete players 100-0 out of the blue (if players arent bursted down, theyll just go back to 100% hp within seconds at any time)

excessive healing allows players to casually sit in fire and do their golem dps rotations without a hitch. theres little need to break from rotations to play defensively to prevent oneself from dying, or stopping dps to res others (because those now rarely exist). nerfing healing either means players will have less opportunities to go full golem dps mode, or players will have to run more healers to retain the current amount of healing, both reducing overall dps

[Jski.6180]

Make all hp and def the same from class to class. Put most of that hp / def on gear but not all of it.

[SeTect.5918]

35 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Might also contributes to condition damage, and a fury nerf would hit condi builds as many have a condition application on crit trait along with condition application on crit sigils.

Yeah the might is the reason i said it would take a hit too. But nerfing fury impacts power builds far more than condi builds, thats basically my point and it wouldnt be fair to give power a harder hit than condi.

[Beddo.1907]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

- I'd limit the maximum of stats offered by armor stat sets to 3

Unless you remove the stat, without increasing the ones left, I doubt it will do much, since ppl will just mix.

[Zyreva.1078]

I do not agree with nerfing boon effects. Keeps the ridiculous and boring spam, just makes buttons less impactful and therefore makes proper timing and skilful play also less relevant.

What needs desperate nerfs is boon uptime. Boons should be powerful, but not something that can be kept up permanently (except maybe swiftness), so players have to actually think when to use what boon, instead of spamming everything on cd, while ignoring important combat mechanics (mainly soft and hard cc). It's how it used to be and boons were mostly fine pre HoT.

[XenesisII.1540]

For wvw.

Developer bias.

Stealth spam.

Boons spam.

Mobility spam.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Put me down in the nerf boobs camp, but I wouldn't nerf their effects. I'd nerf the durations, so they could no longer be spammed 100% of the time. Make them best used for clutch plays. 

Defensive boons are probably fine, so support players have decent impact and can keep others alive, since encounters would naturally last a bit longer.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

28 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Put me down in the nerf boobs camp

Lets not nerf boobs.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'm hearing a lot about boons here, irrespective of game mode.

How about this:

Change Concentration to give 1% Boon Duration for every 21 points of concentration instead of every 15.

That makes 100% upkeep harder and probably in some cases limits boons to impactful windows only.

I think you could make the same argument for Expertise and Ferocity though. I can also see the value in having Concentration and Precision at 21/1% conversion rates and leaving Expertise and Ferocity at 15/1%.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Mhhh. My first thought would be nerfing boons. Like Fury and might.

But realistically, that only hurts the people who need the powercreep the most. The casuals. 

Good people just clear everything with ease anyway. 

Thats the big problem with the pve powercreep. Even with the insane power level we have right now, it just doesn't seem to translate to the casuals who see 20k dps as a big hill to climb. 

 

In Wvw however..... 

Nerf boons hard. 

15% Fury. 

Might power/condi reduced to 10 per stack. 

Protection to 10% dmg reduction. 

Etc. 

At this point I think they just need to do a full reverse, stop nerfing boon strip/corrupt and add more of it back into the game. That is quite literally the "counterplay" they spoke about in their philosophy post and yet they haven't kept up with that and simply made boonballing stronger.

As for anything else, turthfully, they should be buffing the underperforming things to bring them in line with how the meta has established itself these days. Nerfing as they have clearly doesn't work because they visibly don't seem to know what to nerf, or just don't nerf the right thing. Granted they don't exactly buff the right things either...but they miss a lot more with nerfs than buffs at this point.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Unless you remove the stat, without increasing the ones left, I doubt it will do much, since ppl will just mix.

If they mix they will still lose some amount of raw stats compared to now so that's effectively some power De-creep.

[Dadnir.5038]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'm hearing a lot about boons here, irrespective of game mode.

How about this:

Change Concentration to give 1% Boon Duration for every 21 points of concentration instead of every 15.

That makes 100% upkeep harder and probably in some cases limits boons to impactful windows only.

I think you could make the same argument for Expertise and Ferocity though. I can also see the value in having Concentration and Precision at 21/1% conversion rates and leaving Expertise and Ferocity at 15/1%.

I think they should go for the opposite and remove the 100% cap instead. Players should need 300% to 400% boon duration via concentration in order to be able to keep up boons. (that should also be true for expertise and condition duration).

If 2 characters with 0 investment in concentration can casually replace a the support of a full concentration character then it mean that investing is not really worth it. If you need 4 to 5 character to replace the fully invested support then it mean that the investment have some worth.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

51 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Lets not nerf boobs.

Whoopsie! 😅

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I think they should go for the opposite and remove the 100% cap instead. Players should need 300% to 400% boon duration via concentration in order to be able to keep up boons. (that should also be true for expertise and condition duration).

If 2 characters with 0 investment in concentration can casually replace a the support of a full concentration character then it mean that investing is not really worth it. If you need 4 to 5 character to replace the fully invested support then it mean that the investment have some worth.

I can see the value in that. Boons were meant to be short but impactful at release and we clearly deviated from that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

49 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

At this point I think they just need to do a full reverse, stop nerfing boon strip/corrupt and add more of it back into the game. That is quite literally the "counterplay" they spoke about in their philosophy post and yet they haven't kept up with that and simply made boonballing stronger.

As for anything else, turthfully, they should be buffing the underperforming things to bring them in line with how the meta has established itself these days. Nerfing as they have clearly doesn't work because they visibly don't seem to know what to nerf, or just don't nerf the right thing. Granted they don't exactly buff the right things either...but they miss a lot more with nerfs than buffs at this point.

Boon strips/corrupts absolutely need to be increased in PvP/WvW. I'd even go so far as to say that instanced PvE content probably should use more boon hate. But if the boons can be easily reapplied for long durations then would increased strips and corrupts even be a solution?

[KryTiKaL.3125]

20 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Boon strips/corrupts absolutely need to be increased in PvP/WvW. I'd even go so far as to say that instanced PvE content probably should use more boon hate. But if the boons can be easily reapplied for long durations then would increased strips and corrupts even be a solution?

It would depend on the frequency of the boon strips/corrupts. I understand Boons in this game are a huge part of the gameplay and how classes even do the things they do, but there is practically no counterplay to them. It used to be boon strips/corrupts, but everything that does that in terms of area denial (such as Winds of Disenchantment) have all been so heavily nerfed to the ground that boonballing has just become even more exacerbated.

If anything they would need to tool things like WoD and other effects to function as "denial", so for instance if WoD were buffed back up to a state where it was actually threatening to stand in, that could function as area denial for boonballing. The opposing zerg either getting severely punished for standing in it or needing to move out of or avoid it entirely. Even with Scourge present, among other classes with similar boon strip/corrupt, the gameplay is just unga bunga into the other group, throwing out damage...as much as zerg players may not want to admit that, that is what it is, especially in the case of boonballing.

The only other way I could think of counteracting this is expanding the "Disenchantment" effect that WoD does into other aspects of classes, for some actual denial of boons. The game needs something to function as counterplay and at this point it isn't boon strip/corrupt with how ANet has gutted it.