Elite Spec Tradeoff was a joke?

[len.7809]

I remember way back in PoF devs said something like elite spec should have a tradeoffs and not the better version of the core class.

This aged good as milk.

the core class like rangers are sooooo good, only pro players with less than 100 wvw rank plays it.

[Kyon.4810]

9 minutes ago, len.7809 said:

I remember way back in PoF devs said something like elite spec should have a tradeoffs and not the better version of the core class.

This aged good as milk.

the core class like rangers are sooooo good, only pro players with less than 100 wvw rank plays it.

I bet its not about wvw rank at all. Just some ppl plays core free version of game testing classes and gameplay.

Btw core guardian provides best damage in wvw mode currently but no one fixing it and also not many ppl plays it.

Besides that how else you suppouse to sell expansion packs? With pve content only (who really cares of pve content? pve is so boring as for me)?

I am not sure that you will purchase expansion packs with weak or useless professions (the only valuable thing in expansion packs).

[Dawdler.8521]

PoF? Lol pretty sure they never said that. 

Elite spec "tradeoffs" was completely abandoned after HoT. That expansion was seemingly planned for a little bit bit more than just selling powercreep (at least originally, lets not mention patches) most notably the necro switching from ranged to melee shroud or the engineer loosing Fx skills.

Anets favorite stealth baby known as the daredevil is an exception though - in fact they have still never nerfed blackpowder since HoT, it's only been buffed. Which is pretty insane given the random changes Anet is legendary for, if you think about it.

Every expansion elite after has only been plain better than core.

Edited May 3 by Dawdler.8521

[ArchonWing.9480]

PoF and things past it  was the era of flopping back and forth.

You count as a necro shade, no you're not, yes you are.

You need to cast your mantras, no you don't, yes you do.

You give alacrity, no you don't, yes you do, no you don't, now everyone does, now most of them don't, now you do, now you still do, but badly.

And then there is the state of Med Kit scrapper.... Somehow I think Engi and Mesmer mains must have trust issues at this point.

If you do have trust issues, just play guardian. Part of the reason the class is functional is mostly because Anet just forgets about balancing it at all. And every time they do touch the class, something terrible happens.

Or you can play warrior. They just outright delete your skills, so it simplifies the rotation.

Edited May 3 by ArchonWing.9480

[XenesisII.1540]

One dodge mirage for 3 years, took them that long to figure out it was a bad idea.

Followed by one dodge vindi that was laughably fixed to two dodges 9 months later.

[Rakan Buuyon.8576]

On 5/3/2024 at 2:50 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

PoF? Lol pretty sure they never said that. 

Elite spec "tradeoffs" was completely abandoned after HoT. That expansion was seemingly planned for a little bit bit more than just selling powercreep (at least originally, lets not mention patches) most notably the necro switching from ranged to melee shroud or the engineer loosing Fx skills.

Anets favorite stealth baby known as the daredevil is an exception though - in fact they have still never nerfed blackpowder since HoT, it's only been buffed. Which is pretty insane given the random changes Anet is legendary for, if you think about it.

Every expansion elite after has only been plain better than core.

They did, which is why they did a bunch of class nerfs a couple years ago. Soulbeast only has one pet, Daredevil has a steal that's only 600 range, etc. 

They weren't supposed to be flat buffs. It wasn't supposed to be "I'm you but stronger". They where supposed to be unique, but many specs where just core but better. Clearly they don't believe this anymore since they reversed every single one of those changes, but that was their stated reason for nerfing them originally.

[splat.8169]

you're so unreasonable archon.

this is a live service game. by making classes completely random in behavior between versions makes it so practitioners have to stay invested to keep current.

[XenesisII.1540]

What's the tradeoff for willbender with 12 mobility skills and thieves 99% stealth uptime? 🤔🤷‍♂️

[Aeolus.3615]

Anet dev's don't have a decent mentality  to create  interesting trade offs and  most players (actually all players maybe except 1% ) don't want trade offs, only ON ON without the trade if that can even exist. 😛

Reason game is in the sate that it is anyway.

 

99%  of players in this game want to be super carried so that's the quality of player Anet needs to support.

Edited May 7 by Aeolus.3615

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:03 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

One dodge mirage for 3 years, took them that long to figure out it was a bad idea.

Followed by one dodge vindi that was laughably fixed to two dodges 9 months later.

And yet, Anet still can't figure out why daredevil has 3 dodges.  It isn't "because it needs it" or else every thief spec would too.  

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

5 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Anet dev's don't have a decent mentality  for interesting trade off nor most players want trade offs.

Reason game is in the sate that it is anyway.

 

99%  of players in this game want to be super carried so that's the quality of player Anet needs to support.

I mean, you realistically can't have trade offs in GW2 because of how poorly the core classes were designed. 
Really sad to see how this game became clown fiesta with all the powercreep.
 

[Aeolus.3615]

35 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

I mean, you realistically can't have trade offs in GW2 because of how poorly the core classes were designed. 
Really sad to see how this game became clown fiesta with all the powercreep.
 

Actually it is possible...  it is not hard, it is just players would just whine quite hard, really really hard and QQ how that now they need to put effort or their gimmick is dead so class is useless.

 

 

Edited May 7 by Aeolus.3615

[Deniara Devious.3948]

The elite specs trade offs are of course just a marketing slogan, not a real design principle. To put it simply elite > core. It is pay to win after all. And Arenanet loves to "balance" some of the elite specs by nerfing the core (it did that to engineer so many times I lost count).

I personally play almost solely core classes & I even use core only consumables & core only stat selections etc. Yeah, you read it right: core ranger with core pets, core engineer, core elementalist and so on. Let's even take some cheap core food, like mango pie or the cheapest possible core runes and sigils. I know these are suboptimal builds.

Ayna

PS. I have 10k WXP rank (diamond legend), but those ranks are really just matter who much you played. Not display of skills.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

11 minutes ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

The elite specs trade offs are of course just a marketing slogan, not a real design principle. 

Touché! 

 

But we all know that if they really tried hard they would fail, Vindicator is a good example, they even balance upon a time where 20-30 players players could not hit once the vindicator, how can a dev that creates the game can't notice how good of bad the change will affect the skill/class ?

Many players were already expecting that change, on that update we had like 30+ magummers trying to hit us for the  almost.  20 minutes(27 minutes if I recall) until my hand start to hurt and falling  the dodge spam xD, vindicator is still capable of similar dodge spam anyway.

Now thinking about it... I was doing dodge roll 😕 rather than press the dodge key no wonder my hand start to hurt lol /facepalm momment.

Trade !off  they say.... 😛 

Edited May 7 by Aeolus.3615

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

54 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Actually it is possible...  it is not hard, it is just players would just whine quite hard, really really hard and QQ how that now they need to put effort or their gimmick is dead so class is useless.

A-net would need to add something unique to core Ele and we all know they won't be doing that. They could add some trade-offs for Mesmer and it's e-speces, but realistically Chronomancer is reskinned core with F5 and Mirage is core with fancy evade, Virtuoso is unique. The only class in the game that does it well is Necromancer.

[Aeolus.3615]

41 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

A-net would need to add something unique to core Ele and we all know they won't be doing that. They could add some trade-offs for Mesmer and it's e-speces, but realistically Chronomancer is reskinned core with F5 and Mirage is core with fancy evade, Virtuoso is unique. The only class in the game that does it well is Necromancer.

Actually in all mmo's   and even single RPG's, gw2 necromancer imo is the worst and scourge super over designed for gw2, broken until was changed and kinda lost its identity not the worst case tho, even gw1 necro was far far better designed everything worked in any game mode w/o being op but neither weak.

Fun fact gw2 is the only game I don't play necromancer due how horrible I think it is.

Imo chrono is easily fixed 🙂 make it the only class that can apply alacrity or quickness but never both 😛 at the same time  and remove it from all other classes, there ya go Chrono is now unique, players would explode in rage if game become with balance mentality in 1st place.

 

 

 

Edited May 7 by Aeolus.3615

[misterman.1530]

Core Necro is not bad at roaming. Better than a roaming Scourge. I would even take on a roaming Reaper.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Next we quote the freaking manifesto? 

[Invictorum.7643]

On 5/3/2024 at 2:50 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Anets favorite stealth baby known as the daredevil is an exception though - in fact they have still never nerfed blackpowder since HoT, it's only been buffed.

Wait wut.

Black Powder has only ever been buffed twice. Once bringing the radius from 120 to 180, and the second time making the smoke field itself unblockable. Which were back in 2020/2021 respectively,

Every other change to it has been an effective nerf, either by lowering the amount of blind pulses, or by making the blinding shot portion of it tied to a bullet and therefore dodgeable or reflectable.

 

And daredevil isn't even the good stealth elite spec lol.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

And daredevil isn't even the good stealth elite spec lol.

Tell that to DDs then since 90% run it, especially the d/p builds. 

But also what’s the wut. You literally said what I did. They have only buffed it. Compare the list of changes of black powder for say the sneak gyro which now provide roughly 1 second of stealth for 2 seconds. On an elite skill. With 60s cooldown. And they already deleted the smoke field that they just added 3 years earlier.

[Codename T.2847]

7 hours ago, Invictorum.7643 said:

Wait wut.

Black Powder has only ever been buffed twice. Once bringing the radius from 120 to 180, and the second time making the smoke field itself unblockable. Which were back in 2020/2021 respectively,

Every other change to it has been an effective nerf, either by lowering the amount of blind pulses, or by making the blinding shot portion of it tied to a bullet and therefore dodgeable or reflectable.

 

And daredevil isn't even the good stealth elite spec lol.

except it kinda is? for how busted as a game mechanic stealth is, daredev (and deadeye too, dont get it twisted) sure as hell can get it easy as frick, by just slotting bound, pressing 5 and dodging... pressing 5 and 2 after it a few times is not that hard either xD and remember thieves will defend this because their class "needs stealth" or whatever, when you can see good S/D players being equally as unstoppable in any 1v1 scenario ... so what's the issue here? lots of stealth or lots of evades? or, God forbid, both?

[Codename T.2847]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Tell that to DDs then since 90% run it, especially the d/p builds. 

But also what’s the wut. You literally said what I did. They have only buffed it. Compare the list of changes of black powder for say the sneak gyro which now provide roughly 1 second of stealth for 2 seconds. On an elite skill. With 60s cooldown. And they already deleted the smoke field that they just added 3 years earlier.

yep I still miss old sneak gyro, the way it could be used inside zerg was funy as hell 😄