Did Dragon Response Missions even get playtested?

[Player.2475]

Every single Challenge Mode is soloable since it gives you 16-20 minutes to finish the map when it takes 13-15 minutes to finish it.

Meanwhile Snowden Drifts gives you 12 minutes and you take 9 minutes to get to a boss that with 2 invulnerability phases where you have to fight champions in 3 different corners of the arena.

As if this just being lazy, unrewarded content wasn't enough...

[Zeperio.4853]

I think people only do this for the prismatic and not for the enoyment of the content. This was icebrood saga era and most of the stuff from IBS to EoD are not really on par with the previous expansions or living worlds.

[AliamRationem.5172]

11 minutes ago, Zeperio.4853 said:

I think people only do this for the prismatic and not for the enoyment of the content. This was icebrood saga era and most of the stuff from IBS to EoD are not really on par with the previous expansions or living worlds.

More likely they do it for story completion and achievements.  IBS was fine until "Champions" and DRMs.  The reason they switched to that low-effort format was because they diverted resources to development for EoD.  The players wanted an expansion.  The problem is they wanted an expansion + quality story content like we saw with PoF + LS4.  Instead what we got was IBS dropped on its head and a rushed expansion with EoD.

[Shuzuru.3651]

1 hour ago, Player.2475 said:

Every single Challenge Mode is soloable since it gives you 16-20 minutes to finish the map when it takes 13-15 minutes to finish it.

Meanwhile Snowden Drifts gives you 12 minutes and you take 9 minutes to get to a boss that with 2 invulnerability phases where you have to fight champions in 3 different corners of the arena.

As if this just being lazy, unrewarded content wasn't enough...

The scaling from 1 to 10 player was added on a second time, so I don't think the challenge mode was made for solo in mind (I mean, it may be possible, but that's not expected)

[Dibit.6259]

Have you factored in the power creep that has occurred with eod & soto?

[Mirror.3521]

I play already Icebrood, champions chapters and for now i don't see why people dislike them. Here you have 11 story steps and as i know ONLY 3 of them are DRM. After amazing first 5 chapters + visions of the past now it's time to defend Tyria across whole map what never happened before. I found it quite good because for now we only fought Elder Dragons in specific area (Zhaitan on south Orr, Mordremoth mainly on Maguuma jungle, and Kralkatorrik on Elona). Now finally minions attack everywhere at same time and i'm GLAD it happening.

For me Icebrood is same epic story as HoT, PoF or LVS4. Same, champions chapters and DRM.

We had epic story with EVERY single chapter beginning with Zhaitan ALL TIME and now when DRM showed with Icebrood ppl starts to hate. What a pathetic attitude. Ppl have no right to hate champions chapters when story is so amazing.

~ Mirrov, Alliance Commander

Edited May 12 by Mirror.3521

[Randulf.7614]

25 minutes ago, Mirror.3521 said:

Here you have 11 story steps and as i know ONLY 3 of them are DRM.

This is incorrect - there are 10 back to back Dragon Response Missions and a final Boss instance without a break for any other content. And there is no variety in them. As story instances, they are fine, but they replaced any map content (one more map was apparently due) and the story was rushed into the Jormag and Primordus fight. The pacing and structure was all wrong

They are not in themselves awful content, but they are a slog when you have 10 of them back to back. Had they been broken up around other content then much of the issues with DRMs would likely have melted away. Instead we had three decent maps (once they were finished), a great interlude in Visions of the Past and a nice slow build. That changed when Champions was released (and to clear up any misconceptions - DRMs were planned from the beginning of IBS and weren't a late entry just because of the expac)

[Mirror.3521]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

This is incorrect - there are 10 back to back Dragon Response Missions and a final Boss instance without a break for any other content.

So? .. This still doesn't change the fact from all 11 story steps on champions chapters there is ONLY 3 of them with DRM .... It's only 25%-30%.

For the first time in this game you got something like DRM on main story, after that you come back to normal epic story for the next 7 or 8 story steps and you call it wrong pacing? What a laugh. Haters always hate.

~ Mirrov, Alliance Commander

Edited May 12 by Mirror.3521

[Randulf.7614]

20 minutes ago, Mirror.3521 said:

So? .. This still doesn't change the fact from all 11 story steps on champions chapters there is ONLY 3 of them with DRM .... It's only 25%-30%.

For the first time in this game you got something like DRM on main story, after that you come back to normal epic story for the next 7 or 8 story steps and you call it wrong pacing? What a laugh.

~ Mirrov, Alliance Commander

WHat do you means? There are 10 DRMs, not 3. There's no other facts here. They are even listed on the wiki if you need to look them up

The whole 11 step story of Champions is the Dragon Response Missions except the final boss instance and only those. Are you confusing DRMs with something else?

 

Edited May 12 by Randulf.7614

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Mirror.3521 said:

I play already Icebrood, champions chapters and for now i don't see why people dislike them. Here you have 11 story steps and as i know ONLY 3 of them are DRM. After amazing first 5 chapters + visions of the past now it's time to defend Tyria across whole map what never happened before. I found it quite good because for now we only fought Elder Dragons in specific area (Zhaitan on south Orr, Mordremoth mainly on Maguuma jungle, and Kralkatorrik on Elona). Now finally minions attack everywhere at same time and i'm GLAD it happening.

For me Icebrood is same epic story as HoT, PoF or LVS4. Same, champions chapters and DRM.

We had epic story with EVERY single chapter beginning with Zhaitan ALL TIME and now when DRM showed with Icebrood ppl starts to hate. What a pathetic attitude. Ppl have no right to hate champions chapters when story is so amazing.

~ Mirrov, Alliance Commander

I really enjoyed the episodes associated with the 3 maps of IBS.  The Charr politics with Bangar and Ryland, the creepy vibe of Bjora with the Norn spirits.  I thought it was great!  My only criticism is this is where they started to scale back resources toward development and it shows in the split map design especially.  Bjora east would have been a decent map, but it's so small while Bjora west is larger, but packed with copy/pasted events, as if they ran out of time to develop it.  Drizzlewood south would be one of my favorite map designs in the game.  I really like the look of the map, all the effort that went into the voice acting of the Charr, etc.  But then they tacked on Drizzlewood north when it really should have been two separate maps, and thanks to that decision it's practically impossible to just zone into the map and play the south meta.

DRMs/Champions, of course, it all just fell apart.  DRMs feel like exactly what they are: a low effort means of wrapping up IBS while they diverted resources to EoD.  The story went from great to "Let's just get this over with."  No maps.  Just a handful of weak story instances that follow the same tired formula.

[Mirror.3521]

1 hour ago, Randulf.7614 said:

WHat do you means? There are 10 DRMs, not 3. There's no other facts here. They are even listed on the wiki if you need to look them up

The whole 11 step story of Champions is the Dragon Response Missions except the final boss instance and only those. Are you confusing DRMs with something else?

 

I checked the wiki because i didn't want spoilers (i didn't end DRM yet) and now i know. Yes i knew there is 10 of them but i thought they are part of 3 story steps. But looks like they are part of 6 of them.

Either way, after amazing first 6 chapters of icebrood i have no problem play with fun several DRM, unlike the rest of you. Fighting with Elder Dragons minions across whole Tyria never happened before. And there are still two stages of the final story left for the champions: judgement.

I can understand if something like this happening, update after update .. but once? .. no problem for me.

Edited May 12 by Mirror.3521

[Shiyo.3578]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

More likely they do it for story completion and achievements.  IBS was fine until "Champions" and DRMs.  The reason they switched to that low-effort format was because they diverted resources to development for EoD.  The players wanted an expansion.  The problem is they wanted an expansion + quality story content like we saw with PoF + LS4.  Instead what we got was IBS dropped on its head and a rushed expansion with EoD.

HoT was rushed.

Every LS ep was rushed

PoF was rushed

Every LS ep was rushed

EoD was rushed

Gyala delve was rushed

SotO was rushed

What exactly does Anet do at work?

Do they work on random things for months then randomly remember "OH YEAH WE NEED TO GET A GW2 UPDATE/EXPAC OUT ASAP!" ?

[Randulf.7614]

3 minutes ago, Mirror.3521 said:

I checked the wiki because i didn't want spoilers (i didn't end DRM yet) and now i know. Yes i knew there is 10 of them but i thought they are part of 3 story steps. But looks like they are part of 6 of them.

Either way, after amazing first 6 chapters of icebrood i have no problem play with fun several DRM, unlike the rest of you. Fighting with Elder Dragons minions across whole Tyria never happened before. And there are still two stages of the final story left for the champions: judgement.

I can understand if something like this happening, update after update .. but once? .. no problem for me.

That's fine. No one says you have to dislike them and if you like them.. great

But a large amount of people don't and that's fine too. When Champions was released, this was all we got from November through until April. -

- Three DRMS in CHampions part 1,

- Four DRMS in Champions part 2,

- Three DRMS in Champions part 3 

- The finale in Champions part 4

Each Champions part was made of 3-4 instances and no other content whereas everything previously in the game from season 2 onwards was made up of the same number of instances roughly and lots of other content as well - including a map. Half a year of just story instances every couple of months was what soured the playerbase. Yeah opinion is divided on quality, but that would have been put to bed if we'd had other content with it. 

[Shiyo.3578]

DRM's are better content than strikes, raids or any of the newer fractals.

Also better content than any SotO map.

Edited May 12 by Shiyo.3578

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

HoT was rushed.

Every LS ep was rushed

PoF was rushed

Every LS ep was rushed

EoD was rushed

Gyala delve was rushed

SotO was rushed

What exactly does Anet do at work?

Do they work on random things for months then randomly remember "OH YEAH WE NEED TO GET A GW2 UPDATE/EXPAC OUT ASAP!" ?

12 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

DRM's are better content than strikes, raids or any of the newer fractals.

Also better content than any SotO map.

I get it that you like your usual "maintenence mode!" trolling, but now you're making it too obvious.

Edited May 12 by Sobx.1758

[Poormany.4507]

38 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said:

HoT was rushed.

Every LS ep was rushed

PoF was rushed

Every LS ep was rushed

EoD was rushed

Gyala delve was rushed

SotO was rushed

What exactly does Anet do at work?

Do they work on random things for months then randomly remember "OH YEAH WE NEED TO GET A GW2 UPDATE/EXPAC OUT ASAP!" ?

In all of these cases, the vast majority of the content was extremely well done and the remaining 1-5% got rushed. In most cases, the rushing naturally occurs at the end when they innately have to move most of their focus to the next expac, but is not noticeable in most of the cases listed because the content is fun to play (Example: How many people do you see complaining about the cut lane in Dragon's Stand?). The only blatant cases imo are Champions in IBS, Gyala part 2, and the Nyos arc in SotO, all of which are, unsurprisingly, the most complained about.

Edited May 12 by Poormany.4507

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, Mirror.3521 said:

I play already Icebrood, champions chapters and for now i don't see why people dislike them. Here you have 11 story steps and as i know ONLY 3 of them are DRM. After amazing first 5 chapters + visions of the past now it's time to defend Tyria across whole map what never happened before. I found it quite good because for now we only fought Elder Dragons in specific area (Zhaitan on south Orr, Mordremoth mainly on Maguuma jungle, and Kralkatorrik on Elona). Now finally minions attack everywhere at same time and i'm GLAD it happening.

For me Icebrood is same epic story as HoT, PoF or LVS4. Same, champions chapters and DRM.

We had epic story with EVERY single chapter beginning with Zhaitan ALL TIME and now when DRM showed with Icebrood ppl starts to hate. What a pathetic attitude. Ppl have no right to hate champions chapters when story is so amazing.

~ Mirrov, Alliance Commander

Playing them now as a new player or new to the content it probably seems fine. Just a few different dungeons before we go on with the story.

At the time we got these after 5 patches/chapters (I think it was 5) where in each patch we got a new open world map (or a large part of it), meta event and many smaller event chains, story instances with cinematics, a bunch of different achievements and at least one if not more strike missions per patch. And with Champions instead of all that per patch we were getting 3 or 4 DRMs. 

They also went and reinvented the wheel with how pre-made grouping works for these and made it worse than any previous iteration (dungeons, fractals, raids, strikes) for some reason.

As for the story. Up to Champions we had mostly good story and one of the best delivery up to date. Champions and until the end of IBS, judge by yourself when you get there.

[AliamRationem.5172]

37 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

In all of these cases, the vast majority of the content was extremely well done and the remaining 1-5% got rushed. In most cases, the rushing naturally occurs at the end when they innately have to move most of their focus to the next expac, but is not noticeable in most of the cases listed because the content is fun to play (Example: How many people do you see complaining about the cut lane in Dragon's Stand?). The only blatant cases imo are Champions in IBS, Gyala part 2, and the Nyos arc in SotO, all of which are, unsurprisingly, the most complained about.

I think it shows in other areas, too.  As I mentioned before, the split map design that started with IBS, in particular Bjora with Bjora east being conspicuously small and Bjora west full of copy/pasted events.  New Kaineng is another one that feels unfinished.  A huge empty map with not much going on, just a handful of copy/paste events.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

In all of these cases, the vast majority of the content was extremely well done and the remaining 1-5% got rushed. In most cases, the rushing naturally occurs at the end when they innately have to move most of their focus to the next expac, but is not noticeable in most of the cases listed because the content is fun to play (Example: How many people do you see complaining about the cut lane in Dragon's Stand?). The only blatant cases imo are Champions in IBS, Gyala part 2, and the Nyos arc in SotO, all of which are, unsurprisingly, the most complained about.

You forgot about Domain of Kourna episode

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 5/12/2024 at 8:26 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

More likely they do it for story completion and achievements.  IBS was fine until "Champions" and DRMs.  The reason they switched to that low-effort format was because they diverted resources to development for EoD.  The players wanted an expansion.  The problem is they wanted an expansion + quality story content like we saw with PoF + LS4.  Instead what we got was IBS dropped on its head and a rushed expansion with EoD.

I think a lot of how IBS ended had a great amount to do with the COVID lockdown and diminished resource availability when they were working from home. IBS was SUPPOSED to be expansion level content for free. It wasn't until Champions really that the blowback happened, and a proper expansion was dictated by NCSoft.

SotO started out strong, but kitten it got bad in Nayos...