Deadeye needs a nerf

[goron.7916]

Can we all agree that this spec has too much damage? Not to mention all the mobility and permastealth. Im fine with it being practically invincible, but at least trim down the damage, like it is INSANE. Skirmishers shot hitting for 3-4k damage, its so easy just Spam 1 button and opponent dies in seconds. Deaths judgement hitting vor over 9k??? There is no danger, because you are always at 1200 range. So, high damage, high range, high mobility, high stealth uptime...where is the downside? Oh yeah, with shadow arts you also get cleansed every time you go in and out of stealth. Who thought this was a good idea?? I will continue to abuse this spec and jump on corpses until anet nerves this overtuned bull.

[Lucy.3728]

I think the list of what doesn't need a nerf is shorter.

[bq pd.2148]

i dont think anet does balancing for solo roaming.

deadeye now is a pale shadow of what it once was, sure everyone got nerfed with 2020 patch. but before that (which was also before SA changes), deadeye was a lot stronger relative to other solo options. there was a time where you could permastealth with only silent scope and kill most people within 0.5s of them having any sign that a deadeye even exists near them, not just visual but also no audio cue before. 

so deadeye has already been nerfed quite a bit. personally i dont run into too many deadeyes, ill run into multiple reapers, willbenders, harbinger, vindi, tempest, mirages or weird ranger specs before i run into a deadeye (EU). you would think if deadeye was so strong you would run into them all the time.
but in group fights, even small ones there is big chance a deadeye will be made useless by projectile hate and ressurects for lacking cleave, might be the reason i see more daredevil/core than deadeye.

[Dawdler.8521]

Watch the incoming torrent of thieves crying WE nEEd StEAltH t0 SuRVivE followed by other thieves saying that build isn’t good anyway, sword evade without stealth is better.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

DE just needs more risk to their reward in their initiative usage. At the moment they get way too much pressure out by just using the stealth attack and maybe a skirmishing shot or two. The rest they pocket and are free to backflip into the sunset at the slightest inconvenience.

They have a stealth field and leap finisher on rifle, it’s time to remove rifle’s stealth on dodge trait so DE is required to invest initiative in order to get that defense stealth brings and access to their burst. 

Making it harder to have both offensive and defensive capabilities available at all times by putting more pressure on their resource pool should be enough to make DE more engaging to fight. Either they dump all their initiative into skills and rely on utilizes to survive, or they back off on damage so they have the option to stealth with rifle.

[AlphaReborn.1567]

5 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

i dont think anet does balancing for solo roaming.

deadeye now is a pale shadow of what it once was, sure everyone got nerfed with 2020 patch. but before that (which was also before SA changes), deadeye was a lot stronger relative to other solo options. there was a time where you could permastealth with only silent scope and kill most people within 0.5s of them having any sign that a deadeye even exists near them, not just visual but also no audio cue before. 

so deadeye has already been nerfed quite a bit. personally i dont run into too many deadeyes, ill run into multiple reapers, willbenders, harbinger, vindi, tempest, mirages or weird ranger specs before i run into a deadeye (EU). you would think if deadeye was so strong you would run into them all the time.
but in group fights, even small ones there is big chance a deadeye will be made useless by projectile hate and ressurects for lacking cleave, might be the reason i see more daredevil/core than deadeye.

This is actually the right take. Deadeye is very strong in a 1v1 gank situation even today (nerfs and all), but in general it’s actually pretty limited compared to the cele-scum classes that are being used in roaming right now. Yeah it’ll blow up a lot of glassy builds, but it doesn’t have enough juice to punch through cele Harb, Mirage, Vindicator, Willbender, Druid, etc. 

All those classes have enough tanking ability, sustain, and defensive utility to essentially neuter the burst of the DE while also having enough gap closers/ports (maybe not Harb) to instantly close on the DE and counter burst. The cele burst may not be enough to fully down the DE if they are in full Nike mode and don’t want to commit to the fight, but it’s nearly impossible for a DE to beat anyone remotely competent on the aforementioned classes.

And in group play it’s nearly entirely useless as positioning becomes orders of magnitude harder and the number of reflects and blocks goes through the roof.

 

Edit for the confused faces - Try playing Deadeye and fight a group or any of the cele builds, I promise it’ll be an eye opener for you. Or try switching off the Zerg meta builds or PvE builds. You’ll get melted on those.

Edited May 19 by AlphaReborn.1567

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, AlphaReborn.1567 said:

This is actually the right take. Deadeye is very strong in a 1v1 gank situation even today (nerfs and all), but in general it’s actually pretty limited compared to the cele-scum classes that are being used in roaming right now. Yeah it’ll blow up a lot of glassy builds, but it doesn’t have enough juice to punch through cele Harb, Mirage, Vindicator, Willbender, Druid, etc. 

All those classes have enough tanking ability, sustain, and defensive utility to essentially neuter the burst of the DE while also having enough gap closers/ports (maybe not Harb) to instantly close on the DE and counter burst. The cele burst may not be enough to fully down the DE if they are in full Nike mode and don’t want to commit to the fight, but it’s nearly impossible for a DE to beat anyone remotely competent on the aforementioned classes.

And in group play it’s nearly entirely useless as positioning becomes orders of magnitude harder and the number of reflects and blocks goes through the roof.

Enemy has cooldowns though, so once they run out of them they're free bag for DE as usual. On top of that, unless these classes build heavily into sustain (like signet mirage) they're gonna eat so much damage even with protection up. The reason for "not enough juice" is probably because you still use white items, try upgrading to exotics next time.

[Jski.6180]

I think balancing is base off of 5 ish so if the skill only hits 1 person then it should do a lot in that one effect. 1 vs 3 vs 5 target balancing (use to have 10 targets but no fun allowed.)

Now there something to say about other skills that only are 1 target that are far weaker (ele pistol!)

That issues with deadeye and realty any thf is the ability to sustain though stealth its far too safe the healing and condi clears that thf over all games from stealing is too much. Pair that with build in mobility thf becomes too tankly to hit so hard.

[Sviel.7493]

In the year 2024, are we really still asking for fine tuned class balance?  You take what you can get around here but you're never going to have a combat scene you can be fully happy with.  This just isn't that game.

[Waffler.1257]

If you think permastealth exists in WvW, then you need to look up and learn how to use target painters. If only there was an I-win item I could throw at all the aids cele builds that exist to make them die as well.

[MedievalThings.5417]

10 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I think balancing is base off of 5 ish so if the skill only hits 1 person then it should do a lot in that one effect. 1 vs 3 vs 5 target balancing (use to have 10 targets but no fun allowed.)

Now there something to say about other skills that only are 1 target that are far weaker (ele pistol!)

That issues with deadeye and realty any thf is the ability to sustain though stealth its far too safe the healing and condi clears that thf over all games from stealing is too much. Pair that with build in mobility thf becomes too tankly to hit so hard.

Anet is laughing at you in willbender where everything basically hits 3-5 targets for more damage than most single target skills.  But, carry on.

[bq pd.2148]

6 hours ago, Waffler.1257 said:

If you think permastealth exists in WvW, then you need to look up and learn how to use target painters. If only there was an I-win item I could throw at all the aids cele builds that exist to make them die as well.

target painters are far from an i-win item, because as a thief you often don't need to stay stealthed for long enough to trigger the reveal from marked.

i find them strong in thief vs thief fights or when you outnumber the thief with a lot of people. yet even then a thief should either bring enough mobility to run away from such a situation and/or shadow portal to nope away. most people however you can fight perfectly fine while marked as thief.

would think it would have a similar effect if you had on a cele build every 3 sec one boon turns into 5 vuln, could be annoying but wont really matter against most opponents as build balance and experience disparities will have a greater effect on the outcome in 1 vs 1-2.

[Kyon.4810]

9 hours ago, Waffler.1257 said:

If you think permastealth exists in WvW, then you need to look up and learn how to use target painters. If only there was an I-win item I could throw at all the aids cele builds that exist to make them die as well.

If only target painters were locking down thieves movement abilities and pull them close to you like in range of 130 + uncleansable immobilize to target. Because revealed thief with IQ>0 just uses 2 jumps of 1200 range and waiting for cd and just kill you after that with 2 shoots.

[AlCapwnd.7834]

10 hours ago, Waffler.1257 said:

If you think permastealth exists in WvW, then you need to look up and learn how to use target painters. If only there was an I-win item I could throw at all the aids cele builds that exist to make them die as well.

I have hit plenty of thiefs with Reveal and they still stealth.

 

And they have "Revealed" on their bar.

Edited May 20 by AlCapwnd.7834
edit

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

I have hit plenty of thiefs with Reveal and they still stealth.

 

And they have "Revealed" on their bar.

Revealed only prevent them from stealth for 3s. Even under perma marked, thieves can still stealth for 2s every 5s ie maintain 40% stealth uptime. Because the marked effect doesn’t prevent you from stealthing. Traps is the same thing. They only mark you, they don’t reveal unless you are already stealthed or stealth. If they have lower than 2s stealth, they also do not get revealed when stealthing while marked. So technically they can achieve higher than 40% uptime. Only skills that apply revealed for longer than 3s have a decent impact to fighting thieves (dragonhunter spear as an example).

Note the difference between marked and revealed.

Edited May 20 by Dawdler.8521

[XenesisII.1540]

Saw two thieves screwing around ganking people around smc last night, it took a thief and 3 people to finally take down one of them, the other they chased around the walls for a while, they kept using their portal to go in and out of smc. 🤷‍♂️

Any class that requires you to buy an item, have your inventory open in the middle of battle to use the item, and requires 10 supply to use, to be effective against them is lame af, there's only one class that requires that extra effort. And thieves are usually not dumb enough to stick around if you reveal them, they have mobility and evades on top of it.

I don't usually bother with thieves because it's a huge waste of time, I roll my eyes every time I see a group chasing after 1 thief, anet balancing for you, Gank Wars 2 - Always Bring More Homies.

P.S Here's a fun and new innovation design I would like to introduce for thieves, a new dueling ticket from trap vendors, that cost 10 supply to use, and when they get into a fight they are required to use this ticket in combat, if they don't use it within 3 seconds of combat their target is stealth to them for the rest of combat. Now everyone gets to use open inventory to fight each other, at last an even playing field! 😏

Edited May 20 by XenesisII.1540

[TheGrimm.5624]

Sorry confused peep. 

In the WvW subforum everyone needs a nerf and then we all lose when we all get a blanket nerf. 

Edit: Hang around in the WvW subforum and all builds/elites/classes/siege/keep/camps/NPCs/tonics/and dance offs need a nerf at some time. Its just as a metter of when.

Edited May 21 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: Worry confused peep

[Palikka.8249]

On 5/19/2024 at 5:28 PM, AlphaReborn.1567 said:

This is actually the right take. Deadeye is very strong in a 1v1 gank situation even today (nerfs and all), but in general it’s actually pretty limited compared to the cele-scum classes that are being used in roaming right now. Yeah it’ll blow up a lot of glassy builds, but it doesn’t have enough juice to punch through cele Harb, Mirage, Vindicator, Willbender, Druid, etc. 

All those classes have enough tanking ability, sustain, and defensive utility to essentially neuter the burst of the DE while also having enough gap closers/ports (maybe not Harb) to instantly close on the DE and counter burst. The cele burst may not be enough to fully down the DE if they are in full Nike mode and don’t want to commit to the fight, but it’s nearly impossible for a DE to beat anyone remotely competent on the aforementioned classes.

And in group play it’s nearly entirely useless as positioning becomes orders of magnitude harder and the number of reflects and blocks goes through the roof.

 

Edit for the confused faces - Try playing Deadeye and fight a group or any of the cele builds, I promise it’ll be an eye opener for you. Or try switching off the Zerg meta builds or PvE builds. You’ll get melted on those.

Time to time i play deadeye instead of specter and have no problem killing most speccs. Its strong even vs celes. Sure celes are tankier, but most of the time im not in real danger unless i get greedy.

[AlCapwnd.7834]

4 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Revealed only prevent them from stealth for 3s. Even under perma marked, thieves can still stealth for 2s every 5s ie maintain 40% stealth uptime. Because the marked effect doesn’t prevent you from stealthing. Traps is the same thing. They only mark you, they don’t reveal unless you are already stealthed or stealth. If they have lower than 2s stealth, they also do not get revealed when stealthing while marked. So technically they can achieve higher than 40% uptime. Only skills that apply revealed for longer than 3s have a decent impact to fighting thieves (dragonhunter spear as an example).

Note the difference between marked and revealed.

Thanks for the explanation. I have only tinkered with the class a few times. But in my brain I think if I reveal them, then they should not be able to stealth.

Edited May 20 by AlCapwnd.7834
edit

[SleepyBat.9034]

Thief in general needs nerfs. It's far too stacked for small-scale content in wvw.

[XenesisII.1540]

Update: Saw a thief in ebg leading around 10 honey bunnies behind them. Must be real tough to play a thief these days, hope next expansion they get more mobility than willys so they can "feel good" about those marathons.

😏☕

[Invictorum.7643]

Don't mind me, just stealthing in to collect some salt to level cooking.

[Iasuu.9578]

IF DH ISNT ALLOWED TO BE STEALTH 1 SHOT NERF DEADEYE TOO.

[bq pd.2148]

2 hours ago, Iasuu.9578 said:

IF DH ISNT ALLOWED TO BE STEALTH 1 SHOT NERF DEADEYE TOO.

yes please replace the aegis on trap with 1-2 seconds stealth. i would prefer to hit them more frequently, dont need to see them to kill them.

[urd.8306]

Just call it a win any time he runs out of combat and port away.