Is celestial mandatory to roam?

[DarkK.7368]

I'm not talking only 1vs1. Even 2vs2. Or when I go with a friend and we are 2vs1 even. In all those small-scale scenarios, we are kinda doomed to die. She is a noob, and I'm not so experienced. In PVP I only reached silver. It's something, but yes, we're comparing to people with 10+ years in WvW, sure. But I'm wondering, do we even have a chance to win those small-scale fights without celestial gear?

She is reaper axe/focus, I'm bladesworn gs. I'm not sure my class is very capable for hybrid damage, she is more into it, but even with that... The sum of stat, the combination for vitality, thoughtness, even healing power and condition duration (cripples, chills), boon duration, etc. Pretty much every stat has its use, and being celestial an overpowered source of raw stats... Do we even have a chance to survive or kill something in those WvW small scale scenarios? Maybe all enemies are running celestial and here we are, pretending we can do anything. I only have PvP context where it doesn't exist, so...

[Dawdler.8521]

Depends on what your excuse is. Do you want to win or do you want a challenge? 

[DarkK.7368]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Depends on what your excuse is. Do you want to win or do you want a challenge? 

For challenges I have PvP. I used to search for challenges in WvW, roaming for 1vs1's, but now I prefer to just PVP for balanced challenges. When I play with her, she prefers to win. Anyway I would appreciate both responses 🤔

[Mistwraithe.3106]

If you land your burst then more glassy builds can work but it's obviously riskier and if the fight goes longer then clearly you are at a disadvantage unless you have a decent amount of defence and sustain built into your build.

[Ferus.3165]

i'd say celestial is exactly there for this reason. Cele allows you to survive far longer and/or not get blown up instantly which gives new players a far better learning experience than just playing zerker/maurader/dragon and kill or be killed in 2 seconds.

[DarkK.7368]

1 minute ago, Ferus.3165 said:

i'd say celestial is exactly there for this reason. Cele allows you to survive far longer and/or not get blown up instantly which gives new players a far better learning experience than just playing zerker/maurader/dragon and kill or be killed in 2 seconds.

I don't like the "new players" argument. Yeah, a new player will survive more and learn. But an experienced player with cele will almost double the stats and win another experienced player if both skill are similar (according to what I know/suspect). When a new player faces an experienced player that also has celestial, then it's over. Maybe you'll survive a bit more, but the experienced one will be unkillable. So it's not a "new player help", it's a "inherent objectively OP stat combo meta for everyone", or that's my suspect that I want to figure out

[Esufer.8762]

You don't need to run celestial.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

1 hour ago, DarkK.7368 said:

but now I prefer to just PVP for balanced challenges.

PvP

balanced challenges

Pick one.

 

Response to your actual question, no you don't need celestial. But whether you should consider celestial also depends on your choice of profession and build. Things like Druid, Catalyst, and Harbinger play very well with celestial stats. Not every build is going to make the most of the stats.

Edited May 22 by Remus Darkblight.1673

[Ferus.3165]

2 minutes ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I don't like the "new players" argument. Yeah, a new player will survive more and learn. But an experienced player with cele will almost double the stats and win another experienced player if both skill are similar (according to what I know/suspect). When a new player faces an experienced player that also has celestial, then it's over. Maybe you'll survive a bit more, but the experienced one will be unkillable. So it's not a "new player help", it's a "inherent objectively OP stat combo meta for everyone", or that's my suspect that I want to figure out

well perhaps you could say that this stat combo could be considered too strong in certain scenarios. Vs some classes but not vs others if you are talking about dueling. WvW is not a dueling game mode where you constantly fight 1v1 or 2v2. If you start roaming into the enemy territory you are most certainly getting outnumbered and are putting yourself at a serious disadvantage. Any glass cannon simply blows up when it is being attacked by multiple people. Just get two sets of armor and weapons. One with power stats and one with cele stats and play around with both.
Btw for your argument even if cele wouldn't exist and both players, the new and the exp one, played glass cannon stats the outcome would be the same. The only difference would be that you would most likely die so fast vs the experienced player that you wouldn't even know what exactly killed you.

[KrHome.1920]

Celestial leads to a lot of stalled fights. If you aim for not dying, then it's your prime choice. If you want to end fights in one way or another (either you or your target dies), then it's not optimal most of the time.

I have 2 gear sets for wvw: full marauder and full celestial which I swap frequently.

[RainWater.4762]

I would say when roaming 1v1 or 2v2 it doesn't make much difference if you go cele or not. I play reaper only with marauder armor and I hardly have any problems in 1v1 or 2v2. The class is strong but as a noob you're a free kill. Also, the reaper doesn't forgive mistakes and if you're out in the open field without protection and without a plan B you'll be at a disadvantage.

In your case (my opinion) the solution isn't the armor but the class and the skill level. There are better classes for roaming than the reaper. I don't know much about bladesworn but I don't see them very often either. Willbenders, thieves and mesmers are very forgiving and that's why you often see them running around, failing, running away and trying again. If your mate wants to win and is a noob, as you said, she might be happier with the cele harbinger.

Also more important than the gear is map awareness and how to run away 😬.

[lotus.5672]

2 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I'm not talking only 1vs1. Even 2vs2. Or when I go with a friend and we are 2vs1 even. In all those small-scale scenarios, we are kinda doomed to die. She is a noob, and I'm not so experienced. In PVP I only reached silver. It's something, but yes, we're comparing to people with 10+ years in WvW, sure. But I'm wondering, do we even have a chance to win those small-scale fights without celestial gear?

She is reaper axe/focus, I'm bladesworn gs. I'm not sure my class is very capable for hybrid damage, she is more into it, but even with that... The sum of stat, the combination for vitality, thoughtness, even healing power and condition duration (cripples, chills), boon duration, etc. Pretty much every stat has its use, and being celestial an overpowered source of raw stats... Do we even have a chance to survive or kill something in those WvW small scale scenarios? Maybe all enemies are running celestial and here we are, pretending we can do anything. I only have PvP context where it doesn't exist, so...

Considering everything you wrote, yes you should play celestial

Cele zerker is a pretty good duelist

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You don't need Cele. You do need some vitality and toughness or invulnerability/evades/distortion/OP self-healing spam though.

[DarkK.7368]

25 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You don't need Cele. You do need some vitality and toughness or invulnerability/evades/distortion/OP self-healing spam though.

I'm geared towards dodges. Warrior with might makes me right for might generation for healing and endurance with perma vigor and endurance sigil that also cleanses condis and endurance from bursts. Sometimes I hope the issue is just I have to gid gud and not I'm doing something awfully wrong when some random appears and destroys me while being inmortal XD Gunsaber also has projectile block and aegis. And I have kick to interrupt players. Survival mode with offensive stats

Edited May 22 by DarkK.7368

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Depends on your skill lvl and class. And yeah I'd recommend maining SPB, Bladesworn is kinda meh and I doubt it'll ever be strong because  the way it's supposed to be played is just stupid boring.

Edit: for cele you'd need Berserker.

Edited May 22 by Vasdamas Anklast.1607

[ascii.1369]

Cele is not the best gear for every spec/build but the Cele spec/build of your class (for you that’s berserker) definitely outperforms at lower levels of play. The reason Cele doesn’t dominate at the high end of things is because players at that level avoid most damage. It then becomes more important to get a lot of damage through quickly when you see an opening. But from what you described I think you should look into builds that allow you to survive, so you can keep trickling in medium damage and kill the opponent over time. So yes, you might want to try Cele.

Edited May 22 by ascii.1369

[SleepyBat.9034]

5 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I'm not talking only 1vs1. Even 2vs2. Or when I go with a friend and we are 2vs1 even. In all those small-scale scenarios, we are kinda doomed to die. She is a noob, and I'm not so experienced. In PVP I only reached silver. It's something, but yes, we're comparing to people with 10+ years in WvW, sure. But I'm wondering, do we even have a chance to win those small-scale fights without celestial gear?

She is reaper axe/focus, I'm bladesworn gs. I'm not sure my class is very capable for hybrid damage, she is more into it, but even with that... The sum of stat, the combination for vitality, thoughtness, even healing power and condition duration (cripples, chills), boon duration, etc. Pretty much every stat has its use, and being celestial an overpowered source of raw stats... Do we even have a chance to survive or kill something in those WvW small scale scenarios? Maybe all enemies are running celestial and here we are, pretending we can do anything. I only have PvP context where it doesn't exist, so...

It depends on the build. Some builds only work with cele, some builds work best with zerk.

Quote

I'm geared towards dodges. Warrior with might makes me right for might generation for healing and endurance with perma vigor and endurance sigil that also cleanses condis and endurance from bursts. Sometimes I hope the issue is just I have to gid gud and not I'm doing something awfully wrong when some random appears and destroys me while being inmortal XD Gunsaber also has projectile block and aegis. And I have kick to interrupt players. Survival mode with offensive stats

If you're running a Strength/Defense Bladesworn I'd recommend Dragon/Commanders instead of Cele. I used to run a build like yours a while back and the only thing I was guaranteed losing to was Hammer Catalyst. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAcqdlJwSwEZu4w9kGNB-DWRYgBPHdvjoJRgiHNE41CA-w

Edited May 22 by SleepyBat.9034

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I'm not talking only 1vs1. Even 2vs2. Or when I go with a friend and we are 2vs1 even. In all those small-scale scenarios, we are kinda doomed to die. She is a noob, and I'm not so experienced. In PVP I only reached silver. It's something, but yes, we're comparing to people with 10+ years in WvW, sure. But I'm wondering, do we even have a chance to win those small-scale fights without celestial gear?

She is reaper axe/focus, I'm bladesworn gs. I'm not sure my class is very capable for hybrid damage, she is more into it, but even with that... The sum of stat, the combination for vitality, thoughtness, even healing power and condition duration (cripples, chills), boon duration, etc. Pretty much every stat has its use, and being celestial an overpowered source of raw stats... Do we even have a chance to survive or kill something in those WvW small scale scenarios? Maybe all enemies are running celestial and here we are, pretending we can do anything. I only have PvP context where it doesn't exist, so...

In all scales, you need you to gear with what your build is made for, how many you plan to fight, your reaction time based on physical and connection speeds and your skill. In a Axe/Focus Repear/GS, run a power build personally. Raw stats do no good if they can't be employed. Repear is not what I would call a hybrid build. When Chill did condi damage it would be closer but years later, no. That said how many are you two fighting and how much defense are you running the more you fight? Are how many condi cleanse and breaks? Target Vit?

[DarkK.7368]

15 minutes ago, ascii.1369 said:

Cele is not the best gear for every spec/build but the Cele spec/build of your class (for you that’s berserker) definitely outperforms at lower levels of play. The reason Cele doesn’t dominate at the high end of things is because players at that level avoid most damage. It then becomes more important to get a lot of damage through quickly when you see an opening. But from what you described I think you should look into builds that allow you to survive, so you can keep trickling in medium damage and kill the opponent over time. So yes, you might want to try Cele.

Thanks. If full offensive is more worth at the end, then I'll stick to it. After enough training I'll get to that point of learning to avoid most damage 😀

[ascii.1369]

1 minute ago, DarkK.7368 said:

Thanks. If full offensive is more worth at the end, then I'll stick to it. After enough training I'll get to that point of learning to avoid most damage 😀

I like your attitude 👍🏻

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I'm geared towards dodges. Warrior with might makes me right for might generation for healing and endurance with perma vigor and endurance sigil that also cleanses condis and endurance from bursts. Sometimes I hope the issue is just I have to gid gud and not I'm doing something awfully wrong when some random appears and destroys me while being inmortal XD Gunsaber also has projectile block and aegis. And I have kick to interrupt players. Survival mode with offensive stats

If that is the case, you're probably just dodging the wrong stuff.  

[Firefly.5982]

I started playing minstrel support. Then I switched to cele hybrid dps. Then to dps with some sustain. Now I play almost exclusively glass.

When I started playing wvw, I would have never been able to play the builds I play now. Skill is a HUGE part of success rate in wvw. So whether or not you NEED to use cele gear depends entirely on your class, your build, your skill...and all of that compared to your oponent. And then it depends on what you enjoy doing. It's all relative and subjective.

 

[goron.7916]

OP,  here´s the deal:

Cele is not mandatory. However, it is strongly recommended. Warrior doesnt have stealth, Nekro doesnt have stealth. They also don´t really have any teleports. So once you are in fight, you are essentially a sitting duck. Going full glass gear will make surviving very difficult.

Don´t be fooled, Celestial gear can dish out a lot of damage, enough to down enemy players in mere seconds. But more importantly, it will allow you to survive for longer periods of time, and even recover from mistakes and turn around the fight in your favor.  Also, it will allow you to survive random bursts from gankers you didnt even see coming (welcome to WvW)

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, ascii.1369 said:

Cele is not the best gear for every spec/build but the Cele spec/build of your class (for you that’s berserker) definitely outperforms at lower levels of play. The reason Cele doesn’t dominate at the high end of things is because players at that level avoid most damage. It then becomes more important to get a lot of damage through quickly when you see an opening. But from what you described I think you should look into builds that allow you to survive, so you can keep trickling in medium damage and kill the opponent over time. So yes, you might want to try Cele.

Cele dominates at all skill levels.

And no, this doesn't mean cele is mandatory for roaming, after all WvW is still full of bad players and bad builds and roaming is a lot about picking the "right" fights. But a decent cele build is certainly the strongest option in most situations.

[DarkK.7368]

Lot of contradictory points of view here. I'll have to think about it and maybe try some cele, at least in exotics!