Simple AFK player fix.

[Kitty.4806]

Kick any player out of the map that hits 0 participation.

[XenesisII.1540]

What happens when you enter the map with 0 participation?

[prototypedragon.1406]

13 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

What happens when you enter the map with 0 participation?

Anet asks you to buy gems for a participation trial period would be my best guess. Proceeds then all go to the pve support fund. 🤡

[TheIceman.1039]

Or... let's make it so that we don't have a safe spawn area at all. move all those npc's to OS (or keep). And from now on, if someone goes to wvw, he will be forced to fight immediately. To avoid spawn camp killers, more spawn areas can be added. And make landing in them more random, unless you are a squad. And killing someone in those areas doesn't give you any wxp or kill counts. Then roamers will kill all afkers 😜

Edited June 5 by TheIceman.1039

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, TheIceman.1039 said:

Or... let's make it so that we don't have a safe spawn area at all. move all those npc's to OS (or keep). And from now on, if someone goes to wvw, he will be forced to fight immediately. To avoid spawn camp killers, more spawn areas can be added. And make landing in them more random, unless you are a squad. And killing someone in those areas doesn't give you any wxp or kill counts. Then roamers will kill all afkers 😜

You know it’d be much easier easier to add a kick timer to spawn that trigger within a minute unless you move out of the safe zone.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone, the last time a group of players took to the forums asking for solutions to "afk" participation, we were left with the current version of wall repair.

[TheGrimm.5624]

16 hours ago, Kitty.4806 said:

Kick any player out of the map that hits 0 participation.

That sounds good on paper but doesn't work in game. 

Players upgrading your structures will be kicked. Tags cross chatting across maps making plans will be kicked. Players repairing walls will be kicked. Players refreshing sieged objectives will be kicked. Players setting up defenses will be kicked. Players logging in will be kicked. A side just trying to defend will be kicked. Your scouts will be kicked. Your yak runners will be kicked. Players doing a LFG will be kicked. Players waiting for a tag to get in motion will be kicked. Guildmates waiting for a guild raid to assemble will be kicked. Reset would be a nightmare as players get into map and wait for the cooldowns after reset to clear. Players starting in the south or map moving to take targets in the north in HBLs might be kicked before reaching their initial targets. Could go on, end story there are a lot of activities that will add content that may not add participation and some of us still do them since they do add content and or we see them as helpful to our side even though we have no reason to actually win, we may still want to win, and that sometimes mean no participation for doing these things.

Is it easy to keep participation up? Yes. Is it easy to have it fall to zero while being non-afk, yes. Better to keep the afkers than nuke everyone for it. Trying ending up having to do a1-3 person wall repair on a keep that been multi-breached. You need to be weary of what seems simple solutions as they may not be what you think.

[kash.9213]

I think most of the afkers I see are running up against walls in the keep more than at spawn. Either way, Anet knows the few spots that allow that for a good portion of the day. I feel like there could be some kind of automated monitoring of those spots that can bump someone stuck in that routine action after a determined amount of time. They can call it an admin assist or something since the player is technically stuck. 

If a player is legit and getting stuck like that routinely for that long, then it's time to look at a new computer or their connection. 

 

 

[joneirikb.7506]

52 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

That sounds good on paper but doesn't work in game. 

Players upgrading your structures will be kicked. Tags cross chatting across maps making plans will be kicked. Players repairing walls will be kicked. Players refreshing sieged objectives will be kicked. Players setting up defenses will be kicked. Players logging in will be kicked. A side just trying to defend will be kicked. Your scouts will be kicked. Your yak runners will be kicked. Players doing a LFG will be kicked. Players waiting for a tag to get in motion will be kicked. Guildmates waiting for a guild raid to assemble will be kicked. Reset would be a nightmare as players get into map and wait for the cooldowns after reset to clear. Players starting in the south or map moving to take targets in the north in HBLs might be kicked before reaching their initial targets. Could go on, end story there are a lot of activities that will add content that may not add participation and some of us still do them since they do add content and or we see them as helpful to our side even though we have no reason to actually win, we may still want to win, and that sometimes mean no participation for doing these things.

Is it easy to keep participation up? Yes. Is it easy to have it fall to zero while being non-afk, yes. Better to keep the afkers than nuke everyone for it. Trying ending up having to do a1-3 person wall repair on a keep that been multi-breached. You need to be weary of what seems simple solutions as they may not be what you think.

So what you're saying is that if they implement this, everyone that doesn't karma-train or zerg gets kicked?

Well, I recon it will be added in the next patch then!

[TheGrimm.5624]

33 minutes ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

So what you're saying is that if they implement this, everyone that doesn't karma-train or zerg gets kicked?

Well, I recon it will be added in the next patch then!

🙂 

I wish I could hope that some posts aren't taken at face value, but yes overtime I admit have found it better to say, wait a minute, before what was asked for was then delivered upon. In this case I could see it impacting all scales of play as it was written but, yes it would hit small scale even harder.

 

[Gop.8713]

This would be a good suggestion if participation accurately tracked participation . . .

[Caffynated.5713]

Simple solution is to require mouse movement to avoid afk timers. Anyone who is at their computer, even if they're just trebing a wall is going to look around, check their map, open their inventory, etc. and be considered active. 

This gets rid of AFK people who aren't willing to bot to send mouse commands, which is easily 90% of them. 

[Quench.7091]

Participation doesn't really consider scouts or people defending bases, unless they're paired with a commander and granted participation sharing. I do agree that something should be done about macro players running into walls, though. Like how are bare minimum effort macros able to keep AFK players logged into the game without getting them flagged for AFK? It's not just a problem in WvW, but I've seen it in WvW. Any player input can be used in a macro. It's more or less about finding patterns in the input to catch them.

One thing I believe could be done is rather simple! All macro players don't want to move from their current position, because macros cannot easily identify character coordinates in the world. All you need to do is grab their coordinates, hold onto them, check again, and compare them to calculate distance traveled. If the distance traveled is basically 0, give them a flag. Repeat until they collect so many flags that they are undeniably AFK. Reset the flag count the moment they pass a flag check. Do the flag checks every X minutes. In WvW, automatically pass the upcoming check if the player does damage in that time frame, to save siege mounted players from getting kicked.

[Kitty.4806]

15 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

That sounds good on paper but doesn't work in game. 

Players upgrading your structures will be kicked. Tags cross chatting across maps making plans will be kicked. Players repairing walls will be kicked. Players refreshing sieged objectives will be kicked. Players setting up defenses will be kicked. Players logging in will be kicked. A side just trying to defend will be kicked. Your scouts will be kicked. Your yak runners will be kicked. Players doing a LFG will be kicked. Players waiting for a tag to get in motion will be kicked. Guildmates waiting for a guild raid to assemble will be kicked. Reset would be a nightmare as players get into map and wait for the cooldowns after reset to clear. Players starting in the south or map moving to take targets in the north in HBLs might be kicked before reaching their initial targets. Could go on, end story there are a lot of activities that will add content that may not add participation and some of us still do them since they do add content and or we see them as helpful to our side even though we have no reason to actually win, we may still want to win, and that sometimes mean no participation for doing these things.

Is it easy to keep participation up? Yes. Is it easy to have it fall to zero while being non-afk, yes. Better to keep the afkers than nuke everyone for it. Trying ending up having to do a1-3 person wall repair on a keep that been multi-breached. You need to be weary of what seems simple solutions as they may not be what you think.

In 12 years, I have, not once had my participation fall to 0. If you really think this would be a problem, then have these activities freeze your timer.

Another solution I can think of (would be silly) is a captcha popping up (while out of combat) every so often that kicks you if you don't complete it within x amount of time. Maybe even only to 0 participation players. 

[Kitty.4806]

 

15 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

So what you're saying is that if they implement this, everyone that doesn't karma-train or zerg gets kicked?

Well, I recon it will be added in the next patch then!

You can't be for real. I've roamed for years and stayed at tier 6 the whole time. Even solo. If you can't, then skill issue.

[Kitty.4806]

16 hours ago, HazyDaisy.4107 said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone, the last time a group of players took to the forums asking for solutions to "afk" participation, we were left with the current version of wall repair.

The current version is better...

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, Kitty.4806 said:

In 12 years, I have, not once had my participation fall to 0. If you really think this would be a problem, then have these activities freeze your timer.

Another solution I can think of (would be silly) is a captcha popping up (while out of combat) every so often that kicks you if you don't complete it within x amount of time. Maybe even only to 0 participation players. 

Couple of points. Players that are willing to go to zero aren't really caring about participation but want to achieve a goal that isn't considering participation. Which is a number of activities I listed which is what makes the idea good on paper but bad in practice.  As I said not hard to keep up, but who cares if it falls to zero if you are active in an action that generates none but still needs to done. Freezing participation has already been discussed and in general might favor reward farmers versus active players. So again as stated the OP idea would kick more active players than inactive. So you want those 1-2 players that were left repairing 2 walls alone to be kicked since they didn't want to lose your keep while your zerg ran away to ktrain versus just power repair the wall for all? You want players to be kicked as they just enter map since they didn't leave up old participation? 

Again, yes it's easy to keep up, but why care about participation if you are doing something that you see as value add that doesn't have value per the game. If I spend an hour tracking an enemy zerg and reporting where, what and how they are doing what they do so that myside can intercept and eliminate them why should I be kicked?

If I spend 90 mins creating what would be considered light defenses during tournament days at keep, why should I be kicked?

If I just got on map and assigned tactics to all objectives that were claimed but had none, why should I be kicked? 

and the list goes on....

Again we need to see this more from all views not just from the view of someone that is just following a tag. We don't need logic that kicks more active than inactive players just due to issues with players not using the report feature or those reports not being followed up on.

[Zyreva.1078]

46 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

Participation doesn't really consider scouts or people defending bases, unless they're paired with a commander and granted participation sharing.

Scouting doesn't prevent you from doing something else that grants you participation and are you really defending if you don't kill anyone for extended periods of time?

I wouldn't want to kick players with 0 participation because it would kick duelers, and yes, the scene is pretty dead, but a few still like doing it and i don't think they should be punished. And yes, there might be a few other "activities" that result in 0 particiation occasionally, but generally you'd have to actively avoid doing anything that grants participation and there is little reason to do so.

46 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

I do agree that something should be done about macro players running into walls, though.

Autorun is an ingame feature and has nothing to do with macros ...

But yes, checking for position instead of running animation would solve the issue of afk wall running.

Edited June 6 by Zyreva.1078

[TheGrimm.5624]

27 minutes ago, Kitty.4806 said:

You can't be for real. I've roamed for years and stayed at tier 6 the whole time. Even solo. If you can't, then skill issue.

Hi. I question your question.

I agree you sound like a roamer that just attacks. Where I question based on your posts and some of your insults, lol, to other posters is your scope of roaming. Are you an Anet employee that think's roaming doesn't exist or all just gankers? Oh hai. Or do you really not defend or do activities that help your side outside of personal gain?

No, roamers do more than just attack. They do all the things. And this means at time doing the boring things that add value to their side that their large scale don't do. Small scale do a lot of things not out of rewards but it needs to be done. So you want to kick them for it? What a terribad idea unless all you want is ktrains.

 

 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

GMs are the real solution. Any solutions that are automated need to make sure the definitions used don't kick legit players in the same pass. Else its not worth the development time over other changes.

[Zyreva.1078]

2 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

GMs are the real solution. Any solutions that are automated need to make sure the definitions used don't kick legit players in the same pass. Else its not worth the development time over other changes.

If a few afk players aren't worth an automated solution, they for sure aren't worth a "human" solution, as GMs would require a much bigger investment in the long run than anything automated. In the end the number of afk players probaly isn't big enough for anet to justify any investment.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

If a few afk players aren't worth an automated solution, they for sure aren't worth a "human" solution, as GMs would require a much bigger investment in the long run than anything automated. In the end the number of afk players probaly isn't big enough for anet to justify any investment.

We are saying the same thing. An automated feature would kick more active players, so if they want to actually kick AFK players than they need something that can legit judge AFK to non AFK actions since the OPs idea would kick legit players. Or do you disagree?

[Zyreva.1078]

21 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

We are saying the same thing. An automated feature would kick more active players, so if they want to actually kick AFK players than they need something that can legit judge AFK to non AFK actions since the OPs idea would kick legit players. Or do you disagree?

I don't think we are saying the same thing. I agree that active players shouldn't get kicked, but i don't think every automated solution would result in active players getting kicked - i mean we have an automated feature right now, and never heard of anyone complaining about getting kicked by it while actively playing, right? I also don't think that bringing non automated solutions into the discussion makes any sense, because it's never going to be worth the investment for anet. At least not long term.

[Andy.5981]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

GMs are the real solution. Any solutions that are automated need to make sure the definitions used don't kick legit players in the same pass. Else its not worth the development time over other changes.

This is the real solution, they should have teams of GM's wandering around checking for stuff like this and reading map chat. Having said that, I wouldn't be against having any player who has been running in the same spot for over 2 minutes being automatically loaded into Catapults when they are built and fired against walls to break them, just leave them at the base of the wall after they've hit it.

Edited June 6 by Andy.5981

[Quench.7091]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Scouting doesn't prevent you from doing something else that grants you participation and are you really defending if you don't kill anyone for extended periods of time?

There are a lot of times where you try to defend something, like a camp, but then a high mobility class just runs away from combat. There have been times when I've escorted dolyaks to try to get a participation refresh, but then have a camp flip on me. I've also had trouble with siege weapon upkeep on towers, where fortifying defenses made me drop participation. Things that are also not considered are things like siege weapon sabotage players that stall for time. Usually these things are done by scouts in their spare time while they occupy defensive positions. A lot of effort can go into things like maintaining speedy dolyak upgrades! No good deed goes unpunished as they say.

 

Quote

 

I wouldn't want to kick players with 0 participation because it would kick duelers, and yes, the scene is pretty dead, but a few still like doing it and i don't think they should be punished. And yes, there might be a few other "activities" that result in 0 particiation occasionally, but generally you'd have to actively avoid doing anything that grants participation and there is little reason to do so.

Autorun is an ingame feature and has nothing to do with macros ...

But yes, checking for position instead of running animation would solve the issue of afk wall running.

 

I agree with those statements. Usually people who duel flip sentries.