Vayne.8563 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) 27 minutes ago, corwin.3495 said: Not a fan, but I did enjoy the story 😄  Hm not sure that the infusions will help because you need to complete the other 2 to activate the meta and it takes too long for what it is... I'm pretty sure that people need those metas, because most people wont' grind legendary armor, they'll chip away at it piece by piece. And they'll need stuff from the zones because of that. The other too metas are just enforced farming. Edit: And Anet will place a daily in those zones like they do for Season 3 and 4 most likely too. Edited June 6 by Vayne.8563 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaria.4891 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, corwin.3495 said: Also I don't understand why are people defending the HP sponge and saying "it's not that bad". It is bad, it's not engaging and its not fun. Drakkar, Death-Branded Shatterer, Tangled depths, Auric basin, Effigy in Grothmar Valley, Seitung, Dragon's End metas... those are not healthsponges, some of them don't even die that fast, but they are very fun to do. They have so many old metas that people are doing to this day and they decide to reinvent the wheel with that lame excuse for a boss. I wont even go into the pre-events with the stupid fire vomiting and bomb delivery role-play. Exactly! HP sponge is just bad excuse to extend certain encounters. If there is zero engaging gameplay, might as well make the encounter short and sweet. Eparch is just rift and spank, compared to Soo Won's multiple phases and mechanics. Very sad the expansion culmination's meta event to be downgraded to this level. I can only hope Arenanet do better with Janthir Wilds. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silmarwen.1637 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 They should disable mounts in the last room, so many players on their skyscale shooting fireballs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) What I agree with is that putting this meta on a timer to funnel players at predictable, set times should future proof it a bit against the freshly released content. Edited June 6 by Sobx.1758 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suyheuti.1732 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 9 hours ago, corwin.3495 said: Also I don't understand why are people defending the HP sponge and saying "it's not that bad". It is bad, it's not engaging and its not fun. Drakkar, Death-Branded Shatterer, Tangled depths, Auric basin, Effigy in Grothmar Valley, Seitung, Dragon's End metas... those are not healthsponges, some of them don't even die that fast, but they are very fun to do. They have so many old metas that people are doing to this day and they decide to reinvent the wheel with that lame excuse for a boss. I wont even go into the pre-events with the stupid fire vomiting and bomb delivery role-play. I hate HP sponges too and also I hate the bosses which people skip the mechanics. Only good meta for me is Dragons End. Killing DBS takes less than 2 mins. In the past, we were used to separate groups and killing Champions to prevent gaining health of DBS.  Yesterday, we killed Octovine 1:30 min. I barely see 2nd phase of Chak for a year maybe. Check the world bosses, I cant even complete my rotations. This is not cool. Ignoring old content is not good idea. Anet should rework most of them. This game is not WoW. Whatever arenanet built over years, they built over content we say old. If the many of the players still play this game or new players start this game, the reason is old contents. There are 2 things Arenanet did very good over years. 1- Season of the Dragon’s. I dont know who brought that idea. True remarkable. I can give a medal. That keeps old content very alive and good rewards. 2- Changing daily system, Wizard Vault system is awesome. That system leads us to go back old contents. As I said, GW2’s content until Gyala Delve is gold mine. I bought SotO for the sake of the old content. And I will buy JW expansion for the sake of the Anet gave us in the past, not the spears, not the personal housing nor another raid wing. If they do the same mistakes they did with SotO again with the JW, many people will quit the game including me and even old content wont able to save people to come back 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetbread.3678 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 It's not even that damage spongey, it just expects players to actually do the mechanics and use the buffs. Even the massive break bar only seems massive, because nobody is grabbing the defiance break buff. Adding an npc with optional dialogue to explain the more obtuse fight mechanics would help, but If anything truly needs a rework it's the rewards system that hands out participation trophies to the people afk on the floor or doing 2k dps on a skyscale for 90% of the fight. 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surelia.2651 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 15 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said: It's not even that damage spongey, it just expects players to actually do the mechanics and use the buffs. Even the massive break bar only seems massive, because nobody is grabbing the defiance break buff. Adding an npc with optional dialogue to explain the more obtuse fight mechanics would help, but If anything truly needs a rework it's the rewards system that hands out participation trophies to the people afk on the floor or doing 2k dps on a skyscale for 90% of the fight. Well this is the real issue. If you do the mechanics, the HP amount only seems like it is insurmountable. Dedicated portal teams and attention to CC, you get him down really fast. Once people eventually learn the fight it will all seem pretty trivial. The issue of the lack of timers however, is a more complicated and larger problem than just this meta since they would need to put all three Nayos metas on a timer, since you have to do both East and West inner Nayos before you can progress. So more like HoT meta chain as others already pointed out.  Then you would have to also address how to change the event chains that fill the bar in each zone for the respective meta to trigger.  Seems to me that would be a lot of re-work for something that may seem an issue now, but will likely shake itself out in a bit more time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corwin.3495 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 (edited) 16 hours ago, Suyheuti.1732 said: Ignoring old content is not good idea. Anet should rework most of them. This game is not WoW. Whatever arenanet built over years, they built over content we say old. If the many of the players still play this game or new players start this game, the reason is old contents. After seeing what they have done to Svanir, Shadow Behemoth and Fire Elemental, I'd rather have them not touch the old bosses, tyvm. Those battles, though visually and mechanically might be more interesting, the scaling is horrible and the skill lag is disgusting. The second phase of Chak is quite pointless tbh... it's just the repeat of the first phase. Octovine, sure it could use some numbers tweaks, but judging from the past reworks as stated above, I'd rather have them not touch anything else. I am not even sure if the portal achievement is possible now with the Shadow Behemoth rework. Those portals take ages to kill. I do agree with everything else you said... I did buy soto, hated it... I will buy the wilds too, just because it's cheap. If they fail with JW, I won't be giving them a 3rd chance (and no, you can't have my items, for all those very funny people waiting to write that comment) Edited June 7 by corwin.3495 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJin.4127 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) Players need time to learn a new meta before we know if a meta really is too hard. The final IN meta was only released around 2 weeks ago. After waiting about a week after release, I joined PUG's for the final IN meta 3 times and all 3 completed with more than 5 minutes left to spare. I can't imagine that this meta needs to be nerfed so soon, difficulty wise. I do agree with HP sponge bosses not being fun, though (can't say for certain about the final IN meta since many players have yet to fully learn the mechanics). If a boss has a lot of mechanics that the fight is interesting from beginning to end, I'm OK with the encounter lasting 5+ minutes. Dragon's End Soo-Won encounter is so fun and my favorite in the whole game. However, if the boss has very simple mechanics that feel monotonous... I can barely play for 2 minutes before the boss gets boring. The boss in the east IN meta is a good example of a boring HP sponge. While I'm not too familiar with the center IN meta, it seems like this boss encounter might be another HP sponge. Svanir Shaman in Wayfarer is the worst in the game. A player would have to be really simple minded to enjoy these. Tedious HP sponges don't make the game better. It just burns me out faster and makes me avoid these boring metas unless I absolutely have to do them. While SotO has a lot of nice features and QoL upgrades, playable contents like SotO metas, rifts, and convergence (and even strikes to some extent) are filled with low effort copy and paste with no mechanics (mindlessly AOE trash enemies until the event is done) and/or boring HP sponges that make me doubt that future expansions are worth buying. Edited June 7 by BlueJin.4127 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 They appear to have changed the buff icons which confused me, so some change has been made. Another fail today and it failed very early on (15 stacks by 50%). I think they need to give a bit of time between rift spawns. The issue isn't necs that it's hard, but the time it takes to get there and then it's too much mechanics spam which is hard to coordinate for so many people - many of which turn chats off or speak diff languages etc. The HP sponge is a bit cheap, but its clearly doable. It just needs a bit of balancing in design and I think giving an extra bit of time between rifts spawning would help. Or even make the break bar... breakable. Going for the cc buff means everyone needs to find a pool, wash off their old buff, apply the new buff, return to the boss and cc it. That's not an open world coordinated mechanic. Some minor tweaks - slower rift spawns, tone down the over the top visual noise or sort the break bar issue out and it it'll be hard, but more accessible and more fun for all. Especially given the long lead time to the boss and the pre-metas only reward one time a day - deincentivising repeat runs 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 The few I did it, it was actualy quite fast. But I was with organised squad. I like the final boss. I would actually nerf the hp of pre meta bosses. Keep in mind that you can do the pre metas in paralell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindBlade.8749 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) I don't think the boss is an hp sponge, he just become unkillable if rift mechanics is fail and het get too many buffs. When no buff reach him, the boss die with low dps squad with ton of timer left. It's just a boss with a punishing mecha. Edited June 7 by WindBlade.8749 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge shot Grif.6450 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Meh. I tried it once and it was such a boring mess of red visual effects with a million new mechanics being thrown at your face out of nowhere that I'm just gonna ignore it. Every time it comes up people are talking about how bad the rewards are so I'm kinda confused on why it even exists lol. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 19 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said: It's not even that damage spongey, it just expects players to actually do the mechanics and use the buffs. Even the massive break bar only seems massive, because nobody is grabbing the defiance break buff. I was thinking about going for that boon and focus on cc but tbh it doesn't seem worth paying attention to (maybe it is, but for now I doubt). Most runs succeed now without depleting the breakbar as far as I noticed. 19 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said: but If anything truly needs a rework it's the rewards system that hands out participation trophies to the people afk on the floor or doing 2k dps on a skyscale for 90% of the fight. 👆👆 True  2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said: They appear to have changed the buff icons which confused me, so some change has been made. Yeah, that was a bit of a weird change. For me it seems the event already succeeds more than it did in the initial days. I went from about 3wins and 4 losses to about 9 wins and 4 losses. The event isn't exactly hard, it can literally be sufficiently done with some decent mostly autoattack builds. 2 hours ago, WindBlade.8749 said: I don't think the boss is an hp sponge, he just become unkillable if rift mechanics is fail and het get too many buffs. When no buff reach him, the boss die with low dps squad with ton of timer left. It's just a boss with a punishing mecha. Yup, don't let it stack up. Edited June 7 by Sobx.1758 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourhim.3584 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I just tried it for the first time, and we failed on the final fight big time. I am a casual player so I died pretty quickly. But I could not believe how far I have to go, and how long it takes, to get back to this fight. I think we would have many more successes if they would just add a waypoint right near where we fight the Wyvern. Just my own, probably silly, idea. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilowatts per second.1734 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Is it really an HP sponge though? I mean, even with a staggering 384 million health (16x that of a Chak Gerent) , you have to realize that a squad of 50 players (with 40 of them capable of averaging 40k dps (stacking inside his hitbox) and the remaining 10 players covering boons and heals (also stacking inside the hitbox), Eparch would go down in approximately 3 and a half to 4 minutes. For extra-smooth runs, I would make use of a 2nd commander on the map to close down rifts, they'd have approximately 15 to 20 players in that squad. Map cap feels like it's somewhere between 75 and 100 players. More than enough. The trick is finding 40 players who take their dps serious AND consider this meta to be a worthy time investment. Maybe in the future we'll see a guild come along that enjoys speed clearing Eparch or something. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 On 6/6/2024 at 12:47 AM, corwin.3495 said: They are making HP pool for the people who know rotations and how to deal dmg. Most of the people in the open world do not know that, which is fine, but then don't balance the whole meta around the people who do raids and CMs. You don't need to be a Raider to be able to deal damage with how bloated builds are with options at no effort DPS builds. We are way past the times of needing to play well to do high damage. You can literally press a few buttons as Reaper and do 20k+ DPS, and that's just one profession. Anet is balancing metas towards how BS strong we are now and it still hasn't caught up to the level we had almost a decade ago. This meta succeeded day 1, HoT metas took days of attempts to finally succeed. The meta is perfectly fine, people are just lazy to contribute and would rather sit around dead. You have the tools to easily do any meta, that's not the issue, the people who don't want to contribute because "others will do it" are the main issue, Anet can't do anything about that. 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 14 hours ago, fourhim.3584 said: I just tried it for the first time, and we failed on the final fight big time. I am a casual player so I died pretty quickly. But I could not believe how far I have to go, and how long it takes, to get back to this fight. I think we would have many more successes if they would just add a waypoint right near where we fight the Wyvern. Just my own, probably silly, idea. Use 2 leylines from the nearest waypoint and you land next to the last set of stairs. 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 17 hours ago, fourhim.3584 said: I just tried it for the first time, and we failed on the final fight big time. I am a casual player so I died pretty quickly. But I could not believe how far I have to go, and how long it takes, to get back to this fight. I think we would have many more successes if they would just add a waypoint right near where we fight the Wyvern. Just my own, probably silly, idea. There is a waypoint right by where you fight the wyvern which unlocks after the Karka boss on the outside platform. Then a leyline take you right to the back of either tower. It's maybe 20 seconds to return. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: You don't need to be a Raider to be able to deal damage with how bloated builds are with options at no effort DPS builds. We've been through this before. You have to be aware those builds even exist first. Most players are not there yet (and likely never get there, unless something major changes about the game). Hint: while the powercreep at the top is indeed visible, the average OW players still do as much dps as they did10 years ago. Nothing has changed whatsoever, because the powercreep does not affect them - it's not general, it only affects relatively narrow selection of builds. 1 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: We've been through this before. You have to be aware those builds even exist first. Most players are not there yet (and likely never get there, unless something major changes about the game). Hint: while the powercreep at the top is indeed visible, the average OW players still do as much dps as they did10 years ago. Nothing has changed whatsoever, because the powercreep does not affect them - it's not general, it only affects relatively narrow selection of builds. YouTube is flooded with low intensity builds, metabattle is filled with them, even SnowCrows has open world builds now. People not willing to improve is not Anet's fault considering Anet is providing easier and easier options at gearing. If you told someone when HoT released that in the future people will be able to buy full sets of Exotic armor with whatever stats they want for pocket change they'd laugh at you. Purposefully ignoring the amount of sources providing builds that allow you to deal good damage and have insane survivability, ignoring "exist and deal 20k DPS" builds, some of which don't even require anything special, due to how the profession works(Scourge, Reaper, Mech, Scrapper for example) and then going "It's only a narrow selection of builds" won't magically make those builds uncommon or rare. As I said in my original comment, people's unwillingness to go beyond "others will do it" is what's making metas ""difficult"", something you can't rally blame Anet for considering just how much easier it is to gear and make builds now than before. 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 On 6/5/2024 at 5:17 PM, Parasite.5389 said: the next Expac isn't for another 3 months Less than 2.5 months actually. Time marches on and it's not a lot of time before the next expac. Having said that, Gyala Delves was probably less interesting for the player base than this meta is, so they might find a moment to do something about this meta yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: YouTube is flooded with low intensity builds, metabattle is filled with them, even SnowCrows has open world builds now. We've been through this before as well. The majority of players simply do not even think of looking for builds in out-of-game resources. You may not understand why is that (because your mindset is different), but that's how it is - and that reality is not going to change. The situation will not be resolved until the game itself will guide players towards those "easy" builds. Which, as we both know, is very unlikely to happen. 4 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 16 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: We've been through this before. You have to be aware those builds even exist first. Most players are not there yet (and likely never get there, unless something major changes about the game). Hint: while the powercreep at the top is indeed visible, the average OW players still do as much dps as they did10 years ago. Nothing has changed whatsoever, because the powercreep does not affect them - it's not general, it only affects relatively narrow selection of builds. And we've been through this too. Anyone who managed to find the game, download it, make an account, log in and play it, will also be able to google a simple phrase in order to find a stronger/easier build. Not only that, but they don't need to go for a specific min-maxed (even if we're talking about min-maxing efficiency with minimal input) build, they can read their traits/skills and pick rather obvious dps options. Of course they might not feel like doing any of it, but then that's hardly a defendable position to put themselves in. 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Just now, Sobx.1758 said: And we've been through this too. Anyone who managed to find the game, download it, make an account, log in and play it, will also be able to google a simple phrase in order to find a stronger/easier build. Not only that, but they don't need to go for a specific min-maxed (even if we're talking about min-maxing efficiency with minimal input) build, they can read their traits/skills and pick rather obvious dps options. Of course they might not feel like doing any of it, but then that's hardly a defendable position to put themselves in. Your theory does not match the reality. It's not about the theoretical capability of players in finding that info. It's about the fact that most players just never think they should look for it in the first place. Again, you may find it unbelievable, but that's how it is - huge majority of players do not ever think about looking up any info about builds and gearing. That's true in most MMORPG games (well, not just MMORPG ones, even - just look at more recent Diablo titles), actually - here it's just more visible, because, first, GW2 has playerbase that's more casual on average from other MMORPGs on the market, and, second, both gearing and trait system are far more complex in depth than they appear on the surface, and bad/good choices have a much bigger impact on overall effectiveness. In short, it's not like players can't find the answers to their questions. It's that they aren''t asking the right questions in the first place. 3 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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