The way SotO was released was terrible - it's actually good and a real expac now

[Kozumi.5816]

Releasing a basically "alpha" version of your expac with none of the good content, which meant the majority of people immediately quit the game.

All of my friends were excited(long time GW2 players, too!) then quit the game after how buggy it was, and how bad all the content was.

Rifts were the worst content in the universe, convergences are fun and good.
The two first metas were as bad as core world bosses, the new metas are good.

You couldn't even get legendary armor until months in(6+?)

 

Why would you take all the hype/marketing used on your expansion, and then just flush it down the toilet?

Is this same mistake going to happen with janthir?

Edited July 20 by Kozumi.5816

[Randulf.7614]

This majority who left, what specific numbers of those who left Vs who stayed were published?

Also, are rifts really any worse than say the Mordrem Bloom event which was released uncompletable and with an apology? Is it worse than other rift events which have existed since 2013?

I am all for discussion and critiquing an expac, but maybe hyperbole, false figures and statements like “worst in the universe” are best left aside. There’s enough of that in the real world and politics, we don’t need it here
 

Edited July 20 by Randulf.7614

[Ashantara.8731]

9 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Releasing a basically "alpha" version of your expac with none of the good content

Excuse me?  The initial release was bigger than the content of Updates 1-3 combined.

Inner Nayos was, and is, a shame and therefore SotO cannot be compared with previous expansions.

Edited July 20 by Ashantara.8731

[Pifil.5193]

It's odd, the general take I've seen is that SotO started strong and dropped off in quality with the three quarterly releases and yet OP is claiming the opposite. Seems like they didn't read anything that was said by ArenaNet about how the content would be delivered.

Now it's all said and done I think SotO is a pretty mediocre expansion with very little to offer people who aren't going for the legendary armour. The story started out good but dropped off once they basically turned the kryptis into yet another group of humans to be saved by the Commander.

I'm ok with this model in general, (I'd prefer if they had more in the expansions but it is what it is) and will continue to buy these expansions and support the game but I sure hope JW is better.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Also, are rifts really any worse than say the Mordrem Bloom event which was released uncompletable and with an apology? Is it worse than other rift events which have existed since 2013?

Not worse. about the same. The difference is all those other bad events were merely sidecontent. In SotO rifts were part of the main gameplay loop however, with a lot of emphasis put onto them.

[keyokku.5412]

I did not like the kryptis and rifts, felt like just another mob we have to kill (and save), beginning of the story was really interesting with the wizards lore but going the kryptis route spoiled it for me, it seemed like just another corrupted dragon minion kind of thing. but the maps are stunning and gorgeous and you have to navigate around doing events, and metas are fun to me, but all of gw2 is similar formats and patterns, the story can be meh but I don't know why opinions can be so negative about it, at the worst, it's another gw2 format content release. what exactly do you need for the open world content structure?

[Kozumi.5816]

6 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Seems like they didn't read anything that was said by ArenaNet about how the content would be delivered.

Nowhere did Anet say "the content added at the start will be trash" they said they'd continue to add content for a year.

  

8 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Also, are rifts really any worse than say the Mordrem Bloom event which was released uncompletable and with an apology? Is it worse than other rift events which have existed since 2013?

Rifts were as low effort as that and the main content to get legendary armor and the only new unique content. Them being bottom tier content is unacceptable.

And no, they are the worst content in the universe. They're just afk fests.

Edited July 20 by Kozumi.5816

[Kozumi.5816]

  

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Excuse me?  The initial release was bigger than the content of Updates 1-3 combined.

Quality over quantity.

Rifts are horrible, and the first two zones metas have zero difficulty, cannot fail, no need for support of healers. Amnytas meta boss LITERALLY doesn't attack. It's core tyria world boss tier trash. The simon says ending is also agonizing to play.

 

Inner Nayos metas have tons of outgoing dmg, you want boons, and bosses actually attack you. They can even fail - the final one fails easily!

Edited July 20 by Kozumi.5816

[Randulf.7614]

Rifts are not horrible. You personally do not like them. ANd that's fine, but many others are perfectly OK with them. I have zero issue with them beyond the way T2/T3 are spawned

SoTo was not without its flaws - mostly in Nayos - but it was never as bad as made out. It just misfired in the second half

[Cyninja.2954]

Bit on the fence myself. The way SotO was designed and the releases handled did keep me occupied (I'm not one of the people who spends hundreds of hours on something only to kitten on it after. I did make the 2nd version legi obsidian armor and the effort effort seems well balanced) was not ideal, and I am a rather patient person. I am more than willing to wait for 3-6 months for features.

I can't say I was blown away. I did think the content was better than Gaya Delves (not a hard bar to top to be fair) or anything post EoD. So there remains a glimmer of hope that with more experience and practice the quality might improve. That glimmer os growing weaker with every expansion it seems though.

The main strength of SotO in my opinion is everything NOT tied to the expansion:

- the team working on polish and fixing bugs and reworking old mechanics has been really on point

- we have seen more event weeks to spice stuff up (which can be fun because after X years, festivals just aren't interesting any more to me)

- the communication from the developers side, while less recently again, was a huge step up to the past

- the diversity of content has also improved, though the quality needs a bit polish

- reward reworks and similar elements were good and future proof designed (ancient coins, strike crystals, dungeon currencies streamlining, the most recent SotO vendor fornold currencies, etc.). Still to complex for new players but improvements were appreciated

The big "ompf" is still missing though. HoT with gliding and all the new system, same as PoF with mounts and again a ton of fresh ideas stand the test of time better. Maybe housing can take that spot for some players with JW.

Also, why isnit 2024 and we still have no in game tab which tracks meta events besides a gemstore item which pings 15 minutes before? This seems like such a reasonable feature to implement when encouraging players, and especially new players, to engage with content....

Edited July 20 by Cyninja.2954

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

 Quality over quantity.

Yes. Inner Nayos was worse in both regards.

[Tiamat.8254]

It was the cop out ending that got me. It felt like it was leading up to something dramatic, but then everyone becomes friends and felt a little lack luster. The final meta... This is possibly the worst in the game. Takes far too long to get there and the rewards don't justify the time taken. Also the citadel is a wasted load of content which was just a linear corridor experience that offered nothing exciting. 

However I enjoyed the majority of the content. I'm still confused why only half the wizards tower is accessible. Feels a bit cheap. And then the impact on tyria was quite meh. 

Still better than the end of IBS. Killing destroyers over and over was a total yawn fest.

Edited July 21 by Tiamat.8254
Typo

[Kozumi.5816]

3 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Rifts are not horrible. You personally do not like them.

Ok, rifts are bottom tier content. You fight a mob that dies in 10 second after running around for a few minutes to find a new rift. You spend more time channeling the rift close/open animation than actually fighting.

Rifts are trash content, you cannot defend them.

[CETheLucid.3964]

Rift hunting is one of the best new farms added to the game. Something even casual players should be able to grasp the concept of. It's simple and anyone can start up a train for them to great benefit for all. Everyone I meet in game loves them and they always fill out. Online is the only place I see these kind of complaints.

"Valuable materials and fat loot? Bottom tier content!"

Yeah, alright buddy. SoTO was a solid expansion overall and JW is primed to build on what they learned from it.

[Kozumi.5816]

15 minutes ago, CETheLucid.3964 said:

"Valuable materials and fat loot? Bottom tier content!"

Nowhere did anything I said in my post mention rewards. I mentioned the gameplay of the content, which is the worst GW2 has to offer by far.

If you're entertained by spending more time watching your character open/close a rift than you spend fighting a boss, then there is something wrong.

 

Edited July 20 by Kozumi.5816

[keyokku.5412]

9 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Ok, rifts are bottom tier content. You fight a mob that dies in 10 second after running around for a few minutes to find a new rift. You spend more time channeling the rift close/open animation than actually fighting.

Rifts are trash content, you cannot defend them.

sounds like you just followed and played with a zerg. all zergs all over the game will reduce the difficulty levels and demolish mobs like nothing. this happens in any kind of content except the most difficult to complete metas. I've played about half of SotO without zergs and some of the rift and other events definitely kept me on my toes when there were barely anyone around. those were fun to fight. don't base your bias against the content bc you were amidst a massive zerg of people.

Edited July 21 by keyokku.5412

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

6 hours ago, keyokku.5412 said:

sounds like you just followed and played with a zerg. all zergs all over the game will reduce the difficulty levels and demolish mobs like nothing. this happens in any kind of content except the most difficult to complete metas. I've played about half of SotO without zergs and some of the rift and other events definitely kept me on my toes when there were barely anyone around. those were fun to fight. don't base your bias against the content bc you were amidst a massive zerg of people.

"Don't base your opinion on an MMO on how it plays with other people" is certainly a take. Not sure it's a great one.

[Ashantara.8731]

18 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Ok, rifts are bottom tier content. You fight a mob that dies in 10 second after running around for a few minutes to find a new rift. You spend more time channeling the rift close/open animation than actually fighting.

Rifts are trash content, you cannot defend them.

I agree. Still, the rest of the Archipelago, Amnytas and the Wizard's Tower (story, environment, achievements, events that are not rifts) were a million times more fun than anything crappy Nayos had to offer. Nayos is the most boring content ever in every regard. Not a single good thing about it (except, maybe, for the mount adventures).

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 7/20/2024 at 3:23 AM, Pifil.5193 said:

It's odd, the general take I've seen is that SotO started strong and dropped off in quality with the three quarterly releases and yet OP is claiming the opposite. Seems like they didn't read anything that was said by ArenaNet about how the content would be delivered.

Now it's all said and done I think SotO is a pretty mediocre expansion with very little to offer people who aren't going for the legendary armour. The story started out good but dropped off once they basically turned the kryptis into yet another group of humans to be saved by the Commander.

I'm ok with this model in general, (I'd prefer if they had more in the expansions but it is what it is) and will continue to buy these expansions and support the game but I sure hope JW is better.

While that's true, it's more because of the 3-part map release and weak story content.  The OP is correct in observing that major features were released later in the cycle including legendary armor, convergences, etc.  It may not have mattered to you if were satisfied with the available content on release, but if you were specifically looking forward to those features I can understand the lack of enthusiasm for SotO.

[Omega.6801]

I've written a lot about SotO but to give the gist of it, and of course this is just my opinion/experience...

I've been an investeed player since launch; 20k+ hours played, 45k+ AP, did Raids, did PvP, did WvW, did almost everything PvE. I was there when the game was at its peak (imho) with PoF to Drizzlewood, I was there when the game was at its (again imho) lowest, dev being laid off, the abandonment of WvW and PvP, Kourna, IBS, DRMs and so on. Ten plus years I've been playing for five or so hours per day and rarely I skipped doing my dailies, my weeklies and I was laucky enough to find friends to raid and WvW with to get those things done as well and it never felt like it was a chore. Sure there were better times and there were less good times but over all I had fun working towards my goals like Legendaries or Achievements or Titles or having a good time with my friends.
So what's different now since SotO launch? I was invested at launch and did my thing, where I hunted for AP, completed the maps, did the story and for the first release all was well. I wasn't going for the armor, since I didn't have to, so a huge part of the "expansion" fell flat for me right from the start. Now you can do rifts for essences to convert those essences into other stuff, but at release up until its final content batch rifts were only good if you wanted to go for the armor, i.e. not for me. Anyway, the second release hit, we went into Nayos and left behind everything interesting of the first release and replaced it with Krypris. Everything looked the same. Everything felt meh and small, because it was. And so were the subsequent releases. I found myself playing less and less, to a point where today, I log in twice a week, to do my weekly raid clears with my static, because I like the people and the content. I'm up to date with AP up to the last release, so I know, If I had to play the game, I had to play SotO and the sheer thought of it makes me want to play something else. Not to speak of the travesty that is the Relic system and its implications for the future.
Now sure, I don't blame it all on SotO. I was having this feeling of disenfranchisement since IBS and definitely since Gyala Delves, it's been ten years and 20k hours after all. Nevertheless SotO has given me the final push. Within a year this "expansion" has turned my engagement from "playing 5hrs/day and enjoying myself" to "playing 8hrs/week because of a social group that plays legacy content". Maybe SotO "wasn't for me" and that's a fair point; I didn't need Legy armor, I didn't need a Skyscale and so on, but seeing the comments and going from the dev's "we're looking back and trying to improve" PR-speak post, I think that I am not the only person who has issues with SotO, so there is some legit critizism to be made. Is it the worst thing ever to be made since the advent of man? Probably not. But it's not a magnificient masterpiece of MMO entertainment either. It did very little for me in terms of rewards, in terms of story, in terms of exploration and it felt rushed. I don't think this new business modell will produce quality content because there is time to improve on existing content, it only churnes out relaese after release and no one has tie to fix anything. The decision to make everything look like barf for 3/4 of SotO, the enemies, the allies AND the environment made it very boring. Rifts were boring. Convergences were boring. Binary bosses that either do nothing or oneshot you are boring. Bringing back Zojja only to lobotomize and leave her behind is boring and heavily advertising her is outright deceitful. Relics added nothing to game but frustration and broken promises. Overall just very few good things came from SotO like the easier Skyscale, to some the Armor and the Weapon Mastery maybe.

Well, that got longer than expected.
tl:dr: Long time invested player, plays the game 5hrs per day for ten years, is now playing only twice a week for raids with his friends because SotO is the worst thing ever made by a human being since the invention of the wheel. Everything is bad. Where's my Golemancer Relic?

[Ashantara.8731]

9 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

legendary armor, convergences

"Major features"? Three sets of butt*** ugly armor and more Kryptis. 😖

[Pifil.5193]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

"Major features"? Three sets of butt*** ugly armor and more Kryptis. 😖

Yeah you don't like the armour, some people do. Regardless the legendary armour and convergences are major features of the expansion.

Edited July 21 by Pifil.5193

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

On 7/20/2024 at 5:38 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

  

Quality over quantity.

Rifts are horrible, and the first two zones metas have zero difficulty, cannot fail, no need for support of healers. Amnytas meta boss LITERALLY doesn't attack. It's core tyria world boss tier trash. The simon says ending is also agonizing to play.

 

Inner Nayos metas have tons of outgoing dmg, you want boons, and bosses actually attack you. They can even fail - the final one fails easily!

The original release not only had higher quantity, but also higher quality.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

Yeah you don't like the armour, some people do. Regardless the legendary armour and convergences are major features of the expansion.

They might be for some people, but to me they were both two of many disappointments in the Inner Nayos realization. And I know I am not the only one feeling this way.

I sincerely hope Janthir Wilds won't have any such "major features". 😉 Though they've already threatened to implement new Convergences there, didn't they? 😳

[Randulf.7614]

What was wrong with the armour?