Loss Of Community Under WR System

[Sonderm.4639]

8 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

That said yeah there was never any way to stop that happening anyway and it was perfectly possible to do it by leaving/joining. This feature just made it easier. If tags want to run hidden, that’s their choice.

Anet at least is consistent when it comes to stuff like that. Can't stop thieves exploiting into structures and flip then? Give them a portal so they have an easier time. Can't stop people hiding their groups on the map? Give them invisible tags!

Gotta love the devs! 💗

[Daxia.1425]

Don't you make the community with your guild and fellow guilds in the alliance? I mean the server pride is gone now but now you can do it with your guild(s)!

[ArchonWing.9480]

On 8/2/2024 at 2:16 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

Hidden tags matters alot since it leaves everyone else on the map in the dark and unable to properly spread out and react to enemies. You’ll have no idea if the orange swords is yours or the enemy which just lead to wasted time trying to figure out what’s going on. I find it disrespectful to the team. It goes a little hand in hand with the whole everyone on the map has to stack in commander or GTFO of the map.

That said yeah there was never any way to stop that happening anyway and it was perfectly possible to do it by leaving/joining. This feature just made it easier. If tags want to run hidden, that’s their choice.

I think this is more of a communication/teamwork issue rather than the tag being invisible. Like if you're really on a queued map with a large group of people milling around nowhere and not telling people where you are going then it's going to lead to problems. You should probably at least show tag for major engagements.

I do want to say that players in general should speak up more about where they are/where they're going for best results, but that's just me.

I've seen many cases of some dumb 10-20 person guild groups getting mad at us because we "abandoned" them cuz well, we didn't even know they were there. They didn't need to show their tag to communicate their presence really, but it would have helped. Though 99% of the time the translation is "We're angry that we couldn't use you as a meat shield so we could get our glorious one trick pony bomb off"

But what's even more curious is an invisible map queue tag in which case who are we fooling?

Of course, a lot of people are unable or unwilling to pugmand the whole map, but when they effectively the whole map then that reasoning kinda falls apart. I suppose one can argue they don't owe anyone anything, but they shouldn't be surprised if nobody wants to help them. Or more like can't help them because we don't really know who they are.

Curiously that was an issue in my former alliance. It's like why are alliance guilds invising from each other in the same alliance. What was the point?

Edited August 5 by ArchonWing.9480

[CafPow.1542]

24 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I've seen many cases of some dumb 10-20 person guild groups getting mad at us because we "abandoned" them cuz well, we didn't even know they were there

Surprised pikachu meme after you realize „invisible“ means „not see-able“.

absolutly wild the mental state of some people.

[urd.8306]

I think a lot of people forgot why the invisible tag is a thing:
"I don't want my group get followed around by rally bots". Which is per say one of the most unsocial statements in a mmorpg because it means "I want my content without all the others around except for those I deem worthy of my presence".
That those "rally bots" often did the scouting, the camp flipping, the upgrading while the pin had "action" on the map - who cares, right?

Getting rid of hidden tags again would be a great thing for the game.

[kash.9213]

5 hours ago, urd.8306 said:

I think a lot of people forgot why the invisible tag is a thing:
"I don't want my group get followed around by rally bots". Which is per say one of the most unsocial statements in a mmorpg because it means "I want my content without all the others around except for those I deem worthy of my presence".
That those "rally bots" often did the scouting, the camp flipping, the upgrading while the pin had "action" on the map - who cares, right?

Getting rid of hidden tags again would be a great thing for the game.

I don't mind hidden tags for the most part. They do need to understand though that a lot of other people are going to be chasing the same map pings and scouting and they're as much in those people's way as those people are in their way. I try to stay out of a squad's circles, and I try my best to not give them away if they're setting something up, but a lot of the time, I was already there by myself or with other people. 

Likewise, people need to read the room and not be so dismissive of a squads efforts to coordinate and to avoid being a part of the meat grinder. Even just scurrying around a squad or group who are clearly trying to move in a deliberate way using terrain and line of site can give them away to enemy scouting and those people also become a body that's going to interact with that squads fields and effects, and will help the enemy Rally. 

Ultimately though, we'll all hardly even get to know each other before it's time for a new team so I don't think people are going to put much thought into it if they ever did. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

6 hours ago, urd.8306 said:

I think a lot of people forgot why the invisible tag is a thing:
"I don't want my group get followed around by rally bots". Which is per say one of the most unsocial statements in a mmorpg because it means "I want my content without all the others around except for those I deem worthy of my presence".
That those "rally bots" often did the scouting, the camp flipping, the upgrading while the pin had "action" on the map - who cares, right?

Getting rid of hidden tags again would be a great thing for the game.

Invis tags weren't just requested for by large groups. It was also smaller scale groups that wanted to be able to direct their 5 players around and give easier guidance on the direction they were heading. It was also to allow for groups to not draw people away from main tags and reduce calls for groups to leave map since they weren't following the main tag. Now how does this impact Alliance guilds and WRs? We are on sort number 2. I think we would need Anet to provide stats on the number of invis and visible tags. I do agree there is less pugmanders during prime time now but that is due to Alliance guilds and less open players since a lot of prime time players have grouped up. How many free agents are there after the WR, that is also hard to tell. The other question is how many tags, invis or not are there outside of prime?

So the issue with tags and WR is that players might have been used to having tags pre-WR no longer do because of sorting and where those tags are placed after. So does that create new tags? That is the question. Personally been trying to encourage people to try it out. Some have I have been happy to see. 

Edited August 7 by TheGrimm.5624
missing words

[Rain.6375]

what community?

[Yolaus Kriff.3465]

On 7/31/2024 at 9:55 AM, Atoclone.4810 said:

I saw quite a few tags doing this in the last round, not seen any this time but I've not had much chance to play. But the one day I did there were open tags and they were all really pleasant. 

It may well be it's the same folks doing it now who were doing it for their old servers. If that's the case then some of you used to have that and it was great but others didn't and that was less great. 

Tbh the only guaranteed way for all sides to have decent commanders is for anet to employ them and set a schedule

 

 

Now we're talking. Anet, start paying commanders real money 🤣

[TheIceman.1039]

11 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I don't mind hidden tags for the most part. They do need to understand though that a lot of other people are going to be chasing the same map pings and scouting and they're as much in those people's way as those people are in their way. I try to stay out of a squad's circles, and I try my best to not give them away if they're setting something up, but a lot of the time, I was already there by myself or with other people. 

Likewise, people need to read the room and not be so dismissive of a squads efforts to coordinate and to avoid being a part of the meat grinder. Even just scurrying around a squad or group who are clearly trying to move in a deliberate way using terrain and line of site can give them away to enemy scouting and those people also become a body that's going to interact with that squads fields and effects, and will help the enemy Rally. 

Ultimately though, we'll all hardly even get to know each other before it's time for a new team so I don't think people are going to put much thought into it if they ever did. 

I believe both tag versions are necessary. But a visible and open public wvw tag should get 50% more loot than an invisible and closed tag.

[CafPow.1542]

13 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I don't mind hidden tags for the most part. They do need to understand though that a lot of other people are going to be chasing the same map pings and scouting and they're as much in those people's way as those people are in their way. I try to stay out of a squad's circles, and I try my best to not give them away if they're setting something up, but a lot of the time, I was already there by myself or with other people. 

Likewise, people need to read the room and not be so dismissive of a squads efforts to coordinate and to avoid being a part of the meat grinder. Even just scurrying around a squad or group who are clearly trying to move in a deliberate way using terrain and line of site can give them away to enemy scouting and those people also become a body that's going to interact with that squads fields and effects, and will help the enemy Rally. 

Ultimately though, we'll all hardly even get to know each other before it's time for a new team so I don't think people are going to put much thought into it if they ever did. 

But even if and besides that:

i think it’s nice from you to consider the hidden tag plan and whatnot but in the end, nobody, no diamond rank, no commander and absolutely nobody owns anything in this game. This is not „your map“ or something and if i wanna be here i can and i will.

like you, i also try to not interfere with others but they would have no right to ask me to tag down or go somewhere else. And when they ask me to do something, they better ask nice or else I’m not gonna do that. 😄

Edited August 8 by CafPow.1542

[Dawdler.8521]

10 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

But even if and besides that:

i think it’s nice from you to consider the hidden tag plan and whatnot but in the end, nobody, no diamond rank, no commander and absolutely nobody owns anything in this game. This is not „your map“ or something and if i wanna be here i can and i will.

like you, i also try to not interfere with others but they would have no right to ask me to tag down or go somewhere else. And when they ask me to do something, they better ask nice or else I’m not gonna do that. 😄

Even if, people would still run hidden. Because the private feature is not a requirement to run a hidden squad.

People keep forgetting that for some reason.

[CafPow.1542]

13 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Even if, people would still run hidden. Because the private feature is not a requirement to run a hidden squad.

People keep forgetting that for some reason.

Which is fine whatsoever. I just don’t feel obliged to take any orders ^^

 

/edit: btw i understand why a guild runs a hidden tag. This is a totally valid function in the game imo. But if i would run a hidden (or closed) tag, i wouldn’t be salty if somebody else runs a public one.

Edited August 8 by CafPow.1542

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, TheIceman.1039 said:

I believe both tag versions are necessary. But a visible and open public wvw tag should get 50% more loot than an invisible and closed tag.

Or you can send 50% of the loot you get to the public tag.

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, Yolaus Kriff.3465 said:

Now we're talking. Anet, start paying commanders real money 🤣

lol, do we want have a chat?

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Or you can send 50% of the loot you get to the public tag.

Chaba, I still support invis tags, but with alliances and prime time scoring this might be an issue moving forward. Still considering it myself.

[CafPow.1542]

A lot of confused people today 😂

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

A lot of confused people today 😂

Today? 😉 

[Zok.4956]

4 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Today? 😉 

Yeah. Maybe it's not the day but the topic.

[kash.9213]

10 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

But even if and besides that:

i think it’s nice from you to consider the hidden tag plan and whatnot but in the end, nobody, no diamond rank, no commander and absolutely nobody owns anything in this game. This is not „your map“ or something and if i wanna be here i can and i will.

like you, i also try to not interfere with others but they would have no right to ask me to tag down or go somewhere else. And when they ask me to do something, they better ask nice or else I’m not gonna do that. 😄

I agree. I'm not about to stop doing what I logged in to do. Most of the time, that squad will be just as effective in a clutch defense with what they have anyway if they're not just throwing bodies at a ball of light. Most regular pugs can read the room if a leader or a group clearly know what they're doing and they're making things happen. If nothing is happening until they get their full force in the map then we need to just call it because it's going to be a rough night at that point. 

I think a lot of squads are pretty savvy though and understand that. It's still fun running into a squad from my old server and sinking right back into that neighborly vibe for a minute. 

Edited August 8 by kash.9213

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Yeah. Maybe it's not the day but the topic.

It's actually a dumbfounded emote. They're so stunned by your amazing post they cant even articulate a response. 

But that's a forum secret, dont spread it 🙊

[Hesione.9412]

On 8/7/2024 at 10:27 PM, urd.8306 said:

I think a lot of people forgot why the invisible tag is a thing:
"I don't want my group get followed around by rally bots". Which is per say one of the most unsocial statements in a mmorpg because it means "I want my content without all the others around except for those I deem worthy of my presence".
That those "rally bots" often did the scouting, the camp flipping, the upgrading while the pin had "action" on the map - who cares, right?

Getting rid of hidden tags again would be a great thing for the game.

I had SMC flipped on me by an invisible tag, after I had called out outnumbered on the map, saw it disappear, and did not realise the tag had gone straight for capturing SMC.

More annoying when I see, in other players, members of their squad dying while I am with them and staying alive. Roamers know when to pull back, and can cloud.

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

I had SMC flipped on me by an invisible tag, after I had called out outnumbered on the map, saw it disappear, and did not realise the tag had gone straight for capturing SMC.

More annoying when I see, in other players, members of their squad dying while I am with them and staying alive. Roamers know when to pull back, and can cloud.

The truths in this statement. Know when to cloud and when not to. If you run an invis tag and have players cloud, that is on the invis tag. If you run vis and players cloud, that is on cloud players. Now are there deviations? Yes. An open tag and a vis tag are not the same when one is comped and one is pug, but Anet works at making boons for all, so if you have an open tag, group up. Fight together.

Now for those that have played with me, I say this from a roamer, Havoc and pugmander view point. Good hunting!

Edited August 10 by TheGrimm.5624

[Junkpile.7439]

Good old days we did feed pugs to enemy couple times and they did stop following. Only worst coward guilds did run with pugs. 🤣

[Cuks.8241]

On 8/7/2024 at 12:27 PM, urd.8306 said:

I think a lot of people forgot why the invisible tag is a thing:
"I don't want my group get followed around by rally bots". Which is per say one of the most unsocial statements in a mmorpg because it means "I want my content without all the others around except for those I deem worthy of my presence".

It might not be a nice or inclusive thing to say. But it is a very human thing and a mmo thing.

An enviroment with lots of people will develop certain social structures and navigating those is just as much part of mmos as game mechanics.

There is no rule everyone has to be nice to each other.