At this point, ranger will be just a better warrior AND a better thief

[Endo.1652]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

The leaderboard is like 0.5% of players at best, not p 2 3 people that are gold with games that can be on it.
The same statement applies to all professions, even the ones you deem op that are in all games, kitten warrior is kitten warrior and kitten necro is a kitten necro, they are even easier to down than vindi. People play them cause they think they can play them and can carry with it cause someone said they are self driving and OP and are food for the one maining the profession.

there we go, this guy gets it

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

The leaderboard is like 0.5% of players at best, not p 2 3 people that are gold with games that can be on it.
The same statement applies to all professions, even the ones you deem op that are in all games, kitten warrior is kitten warrior and kitten necro is a kitten necro, they are even easier to down than vindi. People play them cause they think they can play them and can carry with it cause someone said they are self driving and OP and are food for the one maining the profession.

To be frank, the necro war being the meta is probably better for the game since the rest of the options for TF and sidenode are just egg timers of defensive cooldowns and there are definitely multiple broken builds better then them but the builds are not shared that much which is for the better. 

I agree that Condi Reaper should have stayed dead, cause it can dip onto too much defensives without losing too much damage and all the balancing kittens good balance on power reaper. For warrior it just needs some buffs and nerfs on the right places like maybe making FC just a burst skill that kind works like the Rev GS block for a second and half or something and it does damage based on the hits or damage taken and if you miss time it tough luck you do kitten all. The thing is if we hold these professions with multiple hoops to jump that require the other party to missplay, all profession should not get kitten if they miss, no free boons for spamming, longer cooldowns on easy to hit skills, shorter cc times on easy to hit skills, no free lunch. 

If we are talking about fresh installs I agree, past that, flat out disagree. There was a forum post not so long ago asking if necro or gaurdian is the better begginer class, almost all agreed/reccomended necro is the easiest to jump on as a newb and quickly learn to then have an impact on games. Nobody contested that necro was easy to do well with, which completely backs up what I am saying, some specs are less punishing than others, and the ones that I said are least punishing, are currently the most represented. Must just be coincidence?

 

Also once again, there is a guy right now asking how to even heal on revenent, where are the posts asking to do anything on necro/gaurd/warrior? This is further suggesting what I am saying is true, that power rev, despite being meta, is punishing to play, being why you see 20+X more warrior/necro/gaurd than vindis.

 

I don't get why people are so defensive over this kitten. One of the reasons I play core rev is becuase it is more forgiving than power herald/vindi.. why you all wanne act like all specs are just the same in effort/risk/reward/punishment etc? Its rediculous cope.

 

EDIT: Game just started, 5 warriors in it 🤪

Edited July 30 by Flowki.7194

[Terrorhuz.4695]

17 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Untamed got boon conversion and necromancers feared that ranger would become a "better" necromancer, yet it didn't happen.

Chill, the bit of stealth gained by ranger isn't going to be significant enough to make it a "better thief". It is (and will) probably be annoying to fight but it is far easier to put a longer CD on a ranger's stealth skill than it is to put a CD on a thief's weapon skill.

Stealth on 12s cd from lb and on 18s cd from smokescale were already quite asinine, then there's stealth on leaving CA mode for the druid enjoyers, then we added the instacast pet stealth to make it worse; I personally didn't test spear, but rangers are already spamming a lot of reset potential without that.

So ok, it's a better thief, we can expect it to have the same downsides, right? And the asnwer is no: it pulses a lot of prot (which also acts as regeneration WHICH STACKS ON TOP OF NORMAL REGENERATION), easy access to stab and blocks, a lot of cleanse and resustain, reliable ranged options, while applying a lot of control conditions without any real investment.

Again; not getting into spear stealth because I haven't personally tested the weapon, but ranger already has as much stealth as a thief with none of the downsides. It CAN definitely hold a point, thanks to the naturally high defensive potential of a ranger.

Ofc a ranger doesn't play all those tools at once, but they'are all there, they're all very strong and any ranger is able to cherry pick a lot of those interactions and do pretty much everything at once. It is pretty much as strong as a warrior in doing what a warrior does, while also getting the tools of a thief.

Edited July 30 by Terrorhuz.4695

[aymnad.9023]

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Again; not getting into spear stealth because I haven't personally tested the weapon,

Yup… Just like every single person commenting about how spear is going to be crazy. This is quite obvious.

Quote

So ok, it's a better thief, we can expect it to have the same downsides, right? And the asnwer is no: it pulses a lot of prot (which also acts as regeneration WHICH STACKS ON TOP OF NORMAL REGENERATION), easy access to stab and blocks, a lot of cleanse and resustain, reliable ranged options, while applying a lot of control conditions without any real investment.

Where is the mobility on spear that makes it a “better thief”? Where is the damage that puts it on the level of a thief? Where is the sustain on the actual weapon that will make it compare to a warrior? How does the stealth hold a node? Can you link your build prediction? Strange how none of you explains any of this. 

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Ofc a ranger doesn't play all those tools at once, but they'are all there, they're all very strong and any ranger is able to cherry pick a lot of those interactions and do pretty much everything at once. It is pretty much as strong as a warrior in doing what a warrior does, while also getting the tools of a thief.

When I look at your... argumentation I can do the same for every profession.

Mesmer has access to tons of blocks, evades, can chain a constant invuln and cover the downtime with tons of cc! The mechanics are isntant, it keeps damaging and ccing when disabled! It even has tools to cover condis and boons all at once. 

This does not sound at all like “cherry picking” right?

The only part I agree with (and already said) is that the current kit already allows a lot stealth (and is way better in every way than spear).

Edited July 30 by aymnad.9023

[Frequency.6407]

Mesmer is better than untamed.

Okay.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

15 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Where is the mobility on spear that makes it a “better thief”? Where is the damage that puts it on the level of a thief? Where is the sustain on the actual weapon that will make it compare to a warrior? How does the stealth hold a node? Can you link your build prediction? Strange how none of you explains any of this. 

bruh I'm not talking about spear, I'm talking about the current kit WITHOUT spear.

[aymnad.9023]

17 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

bruh I'm not talking about spear, I'm talking about the current kit WITHOUT spear.

then you can still answer those questions

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Just now, aymnad.9023 said:

then you can still answer those questions

mesmer\guardian\thief get to choose 1 or 2 things at any given time. A ranger can do several at once.

[aymnad.9023]

8 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

mesmer\guardian\thief get to choose 1 or 2 things at any given time. A ranger can do several at once.

You probably never saw a dh (tanky + tons of burst + decent mobility), a specter (tons of condi + mobility + support), a chrono (good defense + burst + utility) 

edit : or a virtuoso which is probably easier to grasp than chrono

Edited July 30 by aymnad.9023

[Terrorhuz.4695]

2 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

You probably never saw a dh (tanky + tons of burst + decent mobility), a specter (tons of condi + mobility + support), a chrono (good defense + burst + utility) 

edit : or a virtuoso which is probably easier to grasp than chrono

DH isn't tanky at all, unless they run their entire build around relic of the defender (in which case they're unkillable, but they have no burst nor mobility at all), a specter dies pretty easily from any stun as the gameplay is pretty much the same as that of a core necro, and chrono... tell me you're not talking about power chrono, I'm going to laugh in your face if you are.

[aymnad.9023]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

DH isn't tanky at all, unless they run their entire build around relic of the defender (in which case they're unkillable, but they have no burst nor mobility at all), a specter dies pretty easily from any stun as the gameplay is pretty much the same as that of a core necro, and chrono... tell me you're not talking about power chrono, I'm going to laugh in your face if you are.

I hope you do not buy what you said…

Dh unable to kill? Get off your tank build and go on something with berserker for a moment to check…

Specter being easy to kill? Sure is between the blind, mobility and shroud. (noting that you are not contesting the multi role here)

Chrono? Laugh all you want but it is not defenseless. Aoe cc, dispel, blocks, invuln, all that can be reset. And if you disagree what about virtuoso chaining invuln, and blocks + damages + heals constantly with unblockable dmg?

Edited July 30 by aymnad.9023

[Zyreva.1078]

Class representation during last MAT finals:

Warrior: 4
Guard: 0
Rev: 6
Ranger: 0
Thief: 4
Engi: 0
Mesmer: 3
Ele: 0
Necro: 3

Every single team had a warrior and a thief. But no rangers. I wonder why?

[Endo.1652]

9 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Class representation during last MAT finals:

Warrior: 4
Guard: 0
Rev: 6
Ranger: 0
Thief: 4
Engi: 0
Mesmer: 3
Ele: 0
Necro: 3

Every single team had a warrior and a thief. But no rangers. I wonder why?

6 revs!? Dont tell Flowki that

[aymnad.9023]

51 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Class representation during last MAT finals:

Warrior: 4
Guard: 0
Rev: 6
Ranger: 0
Thief: 4
Engi: 0
Mesmer: 3
Ele: 0
Necro: 3

Every single team had a warrior and a thief. But no rangers. I wonder why?

This is illustrates perfectly the forums. Since PoF war players have said nothing except "but ranger" people now repeat it as an “argument” no matter how wrong it can be. Every time war players have a strange change of heart when they realize their profession have similar mechanics..

Ranger has a block on a weapon and damage? Op! And now they are very very silent with their combo of >10k dmg block weapon + 2 leaps and unblockable dmg + another block weapon that fully heal.  “Nothing to see here”

Ranger has cc + stab on a build?  Degen! But when hammer spellbreaker comes in with more cc and stab. “Just do not hit the war and do not get hit so it does not get boons”. It is “skill”.

Condi build, unblockable, sustain. Every mechanic went through this... And every time warriors are the ones pointing fingers.

Edited July 30 by aymnad.9023

[Arheundel.6451]

52 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Class representation during last MAT finals:

Warrior: 4
Guard: 0
Rev: 6
Ranger: 0
Thief: 4
Engi: 0
Mesmer: 3
Ele: 0
Necro: 3

Every single team had a warrior and a thief. But no rangers. I wonder why?

Because those asking for ranger nerfs are not MAT material or close to it? Average PvP match full of necros, renegade, vindicator, staff wars, deadeye and few guards ....but sure let's nerf ranger because a dozen so people make untamed look strong. That's been the case since launch. Skill based nerfed and faceroll buffed...The way of the jungle  sort of balance

Edited July 30 by Arheundel.6451

[youle.5824]

This is based from eu mat final which was admitted as a cheeze tactics full bunker win by the French which only worked because it was hammer and vs some last sec class swaps. They ran 3 revs to have 3 bunker, 1 being a hammer renegade.... That was a one time thing but the actual meta comp is usually : supp Chrono, DPS vindi, thief either DE or sd drd, untamed side noder, war staff heretic bunker. Then there is new 2 thiefs comp with 1 specter that is popular too.

[Arheundel.6451]

6 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

This is illustrates perfectly the forums. Since PoF war players have said nothing except "but ranger" people now repeat it as an “argument” no matter how wrong it can be. Every time war players have a strange change of heart when they realize their profession have similar mechanics..

Ranger has a block on a weapon and damage? Op! And now they are very very silent with their combo of >10k dmg block weapon + 2 leaps and unblockable dmg + another block weapon that fully heal.  “Nothing to see here”

Ranger has cc + stab on a build?  Degen! But when hammer spellbreaker comes in with more cc and stab. “Just do not hit the war and do not get hit so it does not get boons”. It is “skill”.

Condi build, unblockable, sustain. Every mechanic went through this... And every time warriors are the ones pointing fingers.

As somebody who plays warrior too...its pure insanity, madness that a warrior player would whine about ranger of all classes...between staff spellbreaker, gunsaber, condi zerker....complaints about ranger....are you telling me....these people farm hammer vindis, necros, thieves, mesmers, guardian...but lose to a ranger..well yeah ok, gotcha ya

[arazoth.7290]

Class stacking amount restrictions put in ranked, tournies.

And being able to relog when inside shouldn't be a bypass to stack it eitherway...

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

11 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Because those asking for ranger nerfs are not MAT material or close to it? Average PvP match full of necros, renegade, vindicator, staff wars, deadeye and few guards ....but sure let's nerf ranger because a dozen so people make untamed look strong. That's been the case since launch. Skill based nerfed and faceroll buffed...The way of the jungle  sort of balance

Renegade seen more????

Boi I hope that never gets meta with that stupid passive life steal mechanics they're trying to implant 🫤

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Class representation during last MAT finals:

Warrior: 4
Guard: 0
Rev: 6
Ranger: 0
Thief: 4
Engi: 0
Mesmer: 3
Ele: 0
Necro: 3

Every single team had a warrior and a thief. But no rangers. I wonder why?

Why do people talk about MAT final representation to make points about sPVP? To me the effective/realistic metas between environmnets are clearly not the same.

Edited July 30 by Flowki.7194

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Why do people talk about MAT final representation to make points about sPVP? To me the effective/realistic metas between environmnets are clearly not the same.

Because it's the best representation of what's actually strong maybe?

Ranked is just a clown fiesta, how do you balance stuff arround that?

[Flowki.7194]

23 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Because it's the best representation of what's actually strong maybe?

Ranked is just a clown fiesta, how do you balance stuff arround that?

I agree, thats why I don't understand the logic of applying MAT meta to ranked. You see what I mean?

 

Or look, chrono is meta support, but in solo ranked we all know full support is aweful. So to say chrono support is meta in sPVP, just becuase it is meta in MATs, is absolutely redundent. No points can be made like for like.

Edited July 30 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Zyreva.1078 me who do not wonder why cause i know that ranger is a loss state without help into spellbreaker. 

The trueth is...... you only maybe want to use ranger in comb with Spellbreaker for far/close gameplay ..... but even for that rn vindicator is in favor over Ranger cause of its flexible state ^^

Edited July 30 by Myror.7521

[Vancho.8750]

21 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

If we are talking about fresh installs I agree, past that, flat out disagree. There was a forum post not so long ago asking if necro or gaurdian is the better begginer class, almost all agreed/reccomended necro is the easiest to jump on as a newb and quickly learn to then have an impact on games. Nobody contested that necro was easy to do well with, which completely backs up what I am saying, some specs are less punishing than others, and the ones that I said are least punishing, are currently the most represented. Must just be coincidence?

 

Also once again, there is a guy right now asking how to even heal on revenent, where are the posts asking to do anything on necro/gaurd/warrior? This is further suggesting what I am saying is true, that power rev, despite being meta, is punishing to play, being why you see 20+X more warrior/necro/gaurd than vindis.

 

I don't get why people are so defensive over this kitten. One of the reasons I play core rev is becuase it is more forgiving than power herald/vindi.. why you all wanne act like all specs are just the same in effort/risk/reward/punishment etc? Its rediculous cope.

 

EDIT: Game just started, 5 warriors in it 🤪

kitten dude "I play this so its harder and more complicated and there is no issues at all with it and I'm the bestest and so I'm right" get off your high horse and play the rest of the spec you complain about. Getting tired something something mains screeching when somethings beats their build.

For beginner professions Necro and Guardian are probably the one of the worst starts for pvp, even though Necro works only with HP management that translates easier for people from other games, but both are all about positioning and most definitely are getting a target on their head the moment they step in a fight. Ranger is more appropriate since it has more variety of builds to choose from and it works on all modes. 

[Kuma.1503]

I'm gonna say something controversial. 

Every class in this game has a high skill ceiling. 

No player is inherently better than another because of the class they play. We don't need to pretend that class X is secretly played by brainlets while class y are piloted by un-lucky geniuses in order to point out that Anet's balance team is run by a bunch of unpaid interns throwing darts at sticky notes on the wall.