(Suggestion) Reduce the maximum number of players per map

[vier.1327]

Hello, fellow Guild Wars 2 players.

Today I played Dragon´s Stand with less people than I was used to. There were more than 20 of us, that's for sure. But the map was not full.

At first, we thought this, the low population of the map, would be a problem. However, it was quite the opposite. The events were challenging and the boss´s figth was long enough to feel like a boss battle. We completed the Dragon´s Stand, in case anyone asks about it.

That said, I don't know if this topic has been discussed before (I'm 100% sure it has been discussed at least once after all these years).

Would it be possible to reduce the total number of players per map? Not on all maps, just on some.

I think it might be a good idea to improve gameplay, and reduce the mindless zerg that some world bosses and meta-events have become.

See you in the Mist.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[Tinker.6924]

Nothing says “Massive Multiplayer Online” like low pop maps. 
 

Maybe you should play solo games?

[QueenKeriti.5176]

Many maps have lower player caps (Dragons End, for example). 

Praise power creep for letting you low man ancient content.

[Cuks.8241]

It would be an easy solution to the powercreep and old metas being interesting again. But it's a very bad solution. 

[Danikat.8537]

I'd prefer Anet to rebalance old areas and level scaling, because it's not just full maps where everyone is doing the meta where it's a problem.

[Sobx.1758]

The solution to your problem isn't reducing map population, it's to improve event scaling or rebalance powercreep.

[Dean Calaway.9718]

5 hours ago, vier.1327 said:

Would it be possible to reduce the total number of players per map?

They have done that before since launch, so it's technically possible.

5 hours ago, vier.1327 said:

I think it might be a good idea to improve gameplay, and reduce the mindless zerg that some world bosses and meta-events have become.

Problem is not everyone in a map would be doing the meta.

For example in Dragon's End, specially when it came out, there was no shortage of people fishing in the caves taking up slots while other people wanted to do the boss and were locked out on a full map. Asking these fishers to move map was not an option over fishing stacks.

The problem with Dragon Stand, to address your example, is the boss hasn't been able to keep up with power creep and massively increased mobility. If you don't have a Skyscale on a full map you aren't gonna make it to that head before it phases. That area could be turned into no-mount zone (prepare for endless complains) and Mordremoth himself could have better phases, believe it or not once upon a time the CC phase would heal him, the same CC phase that today you can just burn him.

Addressing how these bosses scale up and down would be preferable over just lowering the player limit.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

I totally agree with OP's experience. I've had the most fun in metas and even world bosses when there has been less people and it's been questionable whether we could pull it off (a 6 or 7 person victory against the Shatterer comes to mind, destroying the pulsating crystals before the Shatterer regained the health we had just worked so hard to take off him was tense, we defeated it with < 30 seconds to go).

However, my conclusion was different. You could reduce the player count cap as OP suggested but I would prefer Anet just did more to scale up the bosses when there are lots of players. I know there is already scaling by player count which is great, but there has also been power creep so some of the main bosses could do with a bit of a buff.

Hmmm. I guess if we went the other way (with a lower player count cap) then there is also a benefit that with fewer players there is more time and potential to follow what is going on and really understand the meta, which is nice (another reason I quite enjoy being in an overflow map). I dunno...

[Mistwraithe.3106]

BTW, in regards to Dragon Stand I would be totally onboard with making the final battle at the islands into a no mount zone, or a no flying mount zone anyway. I think that would be a great change to make.

I would also stop people from being able to spawn (from character select) into the canopy in Verdant Brink (probably for 10 mins before and 5 minutes after the canopy bosses unlock). I know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion with some but it's terrible how Verdant Brink is such as great experience for many new players with the increased HoT challenge level, the multiple day time metas which fit together well, then the tense night time defense phase. Then we finally reach the point where the pact have held out long enough and players can go hit the bosses in the canopy and there is essentially NO CHANCE that a new player will get to the Matriarch before it dies because 40+ players are already up there and kill it in < 90 seconds before new players have even worked out there are helicopters, let alone found a pact base which wasn't overrun in the final attack. It's the worst possible finish to such as great map and meta.

People should have to park their alts down on the ground, spawn in a few minutes earlier to ensure some of the pact bases hold out against the final Mordrem attack, and then take the copters up into the canopy like everyone else.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

Reminder: when EoD launched, the player population cap per map was lower than usual.

This was done to ensure maps ran smoother for most players.

The general perception was:"oh look, there are almost no players on EoD maps. Just look at how many players fit on HoT maps. EoD is dead on arrival."

That's literally the take away some players had.

If event difficulty is an issue, then work on event scaling and power creep before changing parameters which might lead to other parts of the game experience getting affected.

Edited August 2 by Cyninja.2954

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Partly it is player quality.  Those that demand a zerg to be carried will tend to leave if there's no zerg to carry them.  What you're left with is a bunch of brave, dedicated players who will put in the effort.  Mandated lower map population doesn't guarantee a good experience.  

[Kozumi.5816]

On 8/1/2024 at 8:15 AM, Tinker.6924 said:

Nothing says “Massive Multiplayer Online” like low pop maps. 

More people doesn't make content better, it almost always makes it worse.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i don't feel like it's the population cap, but instead the powercreep which they're now baking into the game by making newer content require it. i think on average an inexperienced player does around double damage on a similar build to what they could use back in core, and experienced players do around three times as much as they could in core--often including all available boons and ample self-healing, and not requiring anyone to support them at all.

 

the reason is simple--boons are responsible for increasing your damage and survivability by up to 300%, and back when we only had core builds alot of boons were not only weaker, but didn't have anywhere close to permanent uptime solo,  and providing them to a party was also significantly more difficult. certain boons like quickness and retaliation also behaved entirely differently, and others like alacrity didn't even exist until heart of thorns.

 

of course my math here isn't exact, but that seems to be roughly in the ballpark of what i remember, and consistent with youtube videos i could find.

 

it seems to me that the moment we had "flat" boons, which stacked in only duration and not intensity (i.e fury, quickness, alacrity, protection, and so on), this was always going to be a problem because its far too easy to keep a flat boon up at full power compared to one for which the stacks have to be actively maintained.

Edited August 3 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[thestillwinter.9486]

I feel the opposite. I would prefer to have bigger maps with more people or even an open world map with the whole population on different channels. 

[Astralporing.1957]

On 8/3/2024 at 3:26 AM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i don't feel like it's the population cap, but instead the powercreep which they're now baking into the game by making newer content require it. i think on average an inexperienced player does around double damage on a similar build to what they could use back in core, and experienced players do around three times as much as they could in core--often including all available boons and ample self-healing, and not requiring anyone to support them at all.

My observation of dps in open world squads confirms that the majority of players are still doing around 4-5k levels of damage. Exactly the same as they did shortly past HoT (and likely pre-HoT as well, but we didn't have access to dps meters then). Where the dps increase is visible is for the players at the top of the dps list. Here indeed the changes are significant and you can see sometimes truly absurdly high numbers.

[Tula.6021]

On 8/2/2024 at 1:19 AM, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

and players can go hit the bosses in the canopy and there is essentially NO CHANCE that a new player will get to the Matriarch before it dies because 40+ players are already up there and kill it in < 90 seconds before new players have even worked out there are helicopters

And that would be so easy to solve: later spawn of the most popular boss(es) - those can be done at any night anyway.
I don't know when the helicopters are ready to use, I think xx:10 in the night. But the Matriach spawns xx:09.
I had a character camping there (it's only away because of the current festival). Whether I log in at xx:05 to start the camping or xx:10 it wouldn't matter to me, as long as I'm done with the Matriach before the Ley Line Anomaly spawn at xx:20 - where I have another camper.
But that would help new people and all ppl that need to use other transportations but t2f or flying mounts.

On 8/2/2024 at 4:58 AM, Cyninja.2954 said:

The general perception was:"oh look, there are almost no players on EoD maps. Just look at how many players fit on HoT maps. EoD is dead on arrival."

That's literally the take away some players had.

When I arrived in Kaineng it was empty (those 5 other players don't count). I felt like playing a solo game 😞 And I wasn't a fast player. I thought new releases are like that (not many sold) but SotO was the complete opposite... players, players everywhere. Was better.

[starlinvf.1358]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:46 PM, Kozumi.5816 said:

More people doesn't make content better, it almost always makes it worse.

Based on what metric?   wah map is too hard. wah boss is too hard. wah someone stole my kill. wah no one is doing the meta and just clogging MY map. wah I can’t see because particles.  wah I don’t know how to output damage, so every person scaling it up is making me look bad. 

One Mesmer makes everything better. Ergo 50+ mesmers is the most entertainment physically possible.  If you disagree, then you are trying too hard to solo, deserve to be miserable. [brought to you by the purple clown butterfly legion. we bend reality so yoo don’t have to. ]