CELE IS GETTING NERFED

[Exzen.2976]

1 minute ago, Cameirus.8407 said:

sad days, catering to lame gankers who just want to jump people and burst them 100% in half a second with no skill required.

Maybe address the reason people play cele, to survive the no skill gankpacks. Tone down dps burst, tone down the ability to one shot and run if unsuccessful then maybe, full survival would not be required.

 

There are plenty of other options if you want to avoid getting ganked. Run minstrels/nomads etc if you want. They will still be available. 

And there's no reason to throw insults like "lame" and "no skill" just because you don't like it. It's personal preference. The same insults could be directed to people who run in groups/zerg etc. It's neither helpful, nor true. 

[Kulvar.1239]

13 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

1. it doesn't look helpful in WvW to me, where I want the toughness particularly when using condi. seems fine for fractals and open world, just not wvw. 

2. there's no precision. when I asked why precision was on so many condi gears since it seemed like a power stat to me, I was told precision is needed to make condi process sometimes (sounded like by critting your low strike skills)

Well Tyrant doesn't exist for PvE/WvW. It's Power/Condition Damage/Precision/Toughness.

[RazieL.5684]

2 minutes ago, Exzen.2976 said:

There will still be plenty of condi builds about, we might also still see cele builds, they're just likely to be less oppressive. 

ofc i'm not denying that... my point is that even now if i go into wvw i will find 10 thieves/willbenders in about 5 minutes and maybe i will find 1-2 cele players so why aren't anet doing something about THAT oppression? stealth is still broken af nothing is done about that... and guardians still kitten boons while also killing you with their diarrhea and nothing is done about that either... personally i don't really care about the cele nerf for me nothing changes but what is frustrating to me is the blatant bias and favoritism that happens... in another thread someone was claiming "aaah viper gear is a pve set it was never meant to be viable in wvw" but somehow berserker which is it's power equivalent is somehow supposed to be? and cele is always compared to the berserker gear for some reason? all in all everyone is always just up for a quick win and nothing else matters...

[Exzen.2976]

Just now, RazieL.5684 said:

ofc i'm not denying that... my point is that even now if i go into wvw i will find 10 thieves/willbenders in about 5 minutes and maybe i will find 1-2 cele players so why aren't anet doing something about THAT oppression? stealth is still broken af nothing is done about that... and guardians still kitten boons while also killing you with their diarrhea and nothing is done about that either... personally i don't really care about the cele nerf for me nothing changes but what is frustrating to me is the blatant bias and favoritism that happens... in another thread someone was claiming "aaah viper gear is a pve set it was never meant to be viable in wvw" but somehow berserker which is it's power equivalent is somehow supposed to be? and cele is always compared to the berserker gear for some reason? all in all everyone is always just up for a quick win and nothing else matters...

Ha, yeah, I'm not saying stealth certain thief builds aren't annoying as hell to fight and I def think wb burst needs toning down, among other things. I will be happy as/when/if all the imbalances are addressed. But cele is an issue amd I am pleased it's being addressed. Let's hope other issues get addressed too, in subsequent balance patches.

[bq pd.2148]

42 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said:

stealth is still broken af nothing is done about that...

just FYI, one line under the cele changes in the balance preview:

Quote

Revealed: Increased the duration in WvW to match PvP.

that would be a 33% increase.

[Thron Stal.9367]

On 9/14/2024 at 3:53 AM, Codename T.2847 said:

It only took complaining threads in the triple digits!

Now people will start mixing trailblazer/ritualist/marauder instead XD but i'm glad, never expected Anet to have this micdrop of a patch on a random kitten September day

When you boost a toon, ANET gives  you a nerfed toon to start now...... wonderful.

[CafPow.1542]

2 hours ago, Exzen.2976 said:

Ha, dragon and zerker also see plenty of use. And there might be reason to throw some cavalier, knight, commander, crusader, wanderer in now - at the moment if you want to throw some toughness on a power build, cele is better, since it will still also give you power, precision, ferocity and vitality - not to mention the nice addition on concentration etc. Dire/trailblazer builds will probably make a comeback too, with people choosing to throw in other stats like ritualist, sinister, viper etc etc. Cele being reverted to how it was allows space for other stat combos to have a reason to be used. Cele will still be usable, as it was before.

Those are just power builds.

if this is „build diversity“ for you i can only laugh. Sorry. Cele was / is at least another style, more bunker / sustain. I don’t think the nerf makes cele irrelevant tho and i even am okay with some nerfings but you know generally speaking:

deleting a stat option from the game would mean you have 1 less option to build. This is the exact opposite of „more diversity“ brother.

[CafPow.1542]

Oh i have another idea. Maybe pick up herald relic to basically compensate the lack of concentration for free. Hmm, might be a thought lol.

[schloumou.3982]

15 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Those condi builds don't provide any offense.  Condi ele doesn't have many conditions to stack, so all of the damage will just be cleansed away effortlessly.  I tried Marauder after the damage nerfs, and I found very quickly that it lacks the power to kill any of the tankier builds, so in effect it only works against other marauder players who aren't paying attention.  Mixing those three stats together will result in an impotent build that can't do anything at all.

Even after the nerfs, celestial is still the best option for roaming ele.  Except now that it has lost all of its boon duration and condi duration, it is now far easier to kill, escape from, chase down, out-grind, etc.  Meanwhile, Celestial Harbingers will just switch to trailblazer, because they can output every condition all at the same time.  

 

Go grieving stats, add cele trinkets/vita-infusions to not get oneshot by everything, leadership rune for a bit of boon duration and you'll be good. Its what i was playing throughout this horrible meta and it felt like allmost all MUs were winable aside from good players on the most oppressive cele builds and DEs that can kite my  kit forever. It feels squishy at first and you need to actually react to what your opponent does but thats how it should be imho. Ele will be fine.

Edited September 14 by schloumou.3982

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

On 9/13/2024 at 11:38 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Protip: Dragons.  A lot of WBs that make the GoB farmers cry are using Dragons, not cele.  

if willbenders all used cele, anet would not have nerfed it. 

[RazieL.5684]

2 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

just FYI, one line under the cele changes in the balance preview:

that would be a 33% increase.

oh wow stealth is fixed then! praise the gods all thief issues have been resolved and stealth is now completely balanced! jesus kittening christ man be serious for kittens sake i know you main thief but still...

[Aratoa.7398]

2 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

just FYI, one line under the cele changes in the balance preview:

that would be a 33% increase.

I wouldn't bother man, the only acceptable change to stealth for most folks who whine about it is the complete removal of it. 33% is a heavy nerf and I think most people would be upset if they had that kind of heavy handed change done to their skills but because it's stealth, it's not enough.

Edited September 14 by Aratoa.7398

[Dreamonology.8362]

The cope from people who abused broken crap is funny, "cele gave us a unique playstyle" yeah unique as in pump every boon in the game, unlimited sustain, unlimited condi duration with trapper runes, stalemate 30 min fights vs other cele builds, 90% of wvw is in cele, real build diversity....ah and the whine of shadow art abusers is honey to my ears as well, lol. Just go play world of warcraft and play rogue if you want perma stealth and pretend your good when you gank someone with 5% hp lol.

High stealth uptime in MOST mmos for pvp is awful design and game  balance.

[bq pd.2148]

28 minutes ago, Aratoa.7398 said:

I wouldn't bother man, the only acceptable change to stealth for most folks who whine about it is the complete removal of it. 33% is a heavy nerf and I think most people would be upset if they had that kind of heavy handed change done to their skills but because it's stealth, it's not enough.

oh i know that this particular poster there would not see that change as doing anything, given that they want their support ele to deal as much damage as a glass cannon when reflecting projectiles from a glass cannon. so not much reason to be found there, but i figured i correct them on the factually wrong statement that 'nothing' was done. sure stealth is not deleted from the game, neither is celestial.

Edited September 14 by bq pd.2148

[willow.8209]

3 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Well Tyrant doesn't exist for PvE/WvW. It's Power/Condition Damage/Precision/Toughness.

that looks great for a condi damage build. There's no concentration though, and my original point is that without celestial it'll be super hard to gear a condi boons build

[willow.8209]

2 hours ago, Thron Stal.9367 said:

When you boost a toon, ANET gives  you a nerfed toon to start now...... wonderful.

they've changed what constitutes boost gear in the past and I'm sure they can again, but some of us still like to run around open world and wvw in our boost build so I hope they can do something for that.

second issue is cele can do all the things, not as well as specialized gear but well enough to get along and try things out--including WvW. If we suddenly minus WvW from that, it'll be that much harder for new players to try WvW. Which is the last thing we want. 

[CaptainBC.1923]

3 hours ago, RazieL.5684 said:

ofc i'm not denying that... my point is that even now if i go into wvw i will find 10 thieves/willbenders in about 5 minutes and maybe i will find 1-2 cele players so why aren't anet doing something about THAT oppression? stealth is still broken af nothing is done about that... and guardians still kitten boons while also killing you with their diarrhea and nothing is done about that either... personally i don't really care about the cele nerf for me nothing changes but what is frustrating to me is the blatant bias and favoritism that happens... in another thread someone was claiming "aaah viper gear is a pve set it was never meant to be viable in wvw" but somehow berserker which is it's power equivalent is somehow supposed to be? and cele is always compared to the berserker gear for some reason? all in all everyone is always just up for a quick win and nothing else matters...

Spot on post!

[Zyreva.1078]

23 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

that looks great for a condi damage build. There's no concentration though, and my original point is that without celestial it'll be super hard to gear a condi boons build

Ritualist offers condi stats and boon duration. If you want more tankyness, you can pair it with TB for example.

[willow.8209]

9 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

You are implying it, otherwise your post doesn't really make any sense.

Not sure how that's what you read. 

So people come to the forums and they complain about stuff (cele, thief, etc). Some people think things are OP that they actually play and are happy to admit it. But other people think things are OP that they don't play. It's the second group I was talking about.  

I understand, it's surprising to get hit from stealth. But it's also complicated to be fighting clones. And to fight the player and their pet/mech. And to fight a build with tons of CC. And to fight a built with super-high strike damage. And so on and so forth. 

But you know what, every class is supposed to have something the other classes don't, and that will make competitive modes interesting (as well as supporting diverse playstyles and making cooperative modes able to support each other). All classes are meant to have stuff that works for offense, stuff that works for defense, and stuff that works for support (and then pick and choose what's strongest depending on the content/role you're playing). If we take away stealth for example (a highly repeated but misguided ask), or we do other things that affect only a single component, we're not balancing the game. We're homogonizing it. That's not the same. 

Personally I don't think my willbender or my thief are any stronger than some of the other classes I play. Maybe that's a build issue. Maybe it's an issue from my disability. Maybe it's because I play a lot of classes and sometimes I play the one that's in a good balance spot at the moment (it changes frequently whether I think my ele is weak, for example). Or maybe it really isn't all that much better. 

Either way, it bothers me to see a post that "willbender is too good" or "cele is ruining wvw" or "why does stealth even exist" because those are oversimplified complaints even when they do have merit, but they don't always seem to have merit. 

If someone thinks willbender is OP, then play willbender. Simples. Don't come and ask for it to be nerfed so some other playstyle (i.e. the complainant's own) can be dominant. That's what I'm trying to say. 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Edited September 15 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

23 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

Don't come and ask for it to be nerfed so some other playstyle (i.e. the complainant's own) can be dominant.

and this is the issue with cele, by the way. "Other players are too tanky, they must be wearing cele so nerf cele " (spurious complaint, other player picked tanky instead of strike damage). You can tell the damage isn't huge because the cele complaint is never "cele can instakill". Though I have seen "all the cele roamers are killing me". Yeah um roamers fight with other players. Getting dead is going to happen. 

however, people can tell what class an opponent is playing but can't tell what stat combination.

It is highly possible cele is overtuned but as has been mentioned, there are less drastic and less complex responses than to start splitting gear stats by game mode.

Edited September 15 by willow.8209

[schloumou.3982]

28 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

however, people can tell what class an opponent is playing but can't tell what stat combination.

Of cause we can. We have played the same specs you play with all kinds of gear and traits. We see how long your boons last, how much condi/power damage you deal to us, and what kind of crits we land on you and for how much you heal etc... Its actually pretty obvious if someone runs cele or not.

Edited September 15 by schloumou.3982

[Ferus.3165]

On 9/13/2024 at 9:53 PM, Codename T.2847 said:

It only took complaining threads in the triple digits!

Now people will start mixing trailblazer/ritualist/marauder instead XD but i'm glad, never expected Anet to have this micdrop of a patch on a random kitten september day

most of the cele complains i've read here were about roamers and smallscale issues but i don't think that's why anet wants to nerf it. I think the problem is more that the meta is like 3 out of 5 people in a squads subgroup are running cele right now and wvw balance is mostly about big group fights. And when one single stat combination is taking over that many roles and is blotting out so many other stat combinations even for big zergs then there might be a slight problem.

[Vavume.8065]

9 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

This is the danger here. We don't need a sPvP round 2 to be applied to WvW. Eliminating build diversity in end game content is a really bad idea. 

The cele nerf is enabling build diversity.

[willow.8209]

1 hour ago, schloumou.3982 said:

Of cause we can. We have played the same specs you play with all kinds of gear and traits. We see how long your boons last, how much condi/power damage you deal to us, and what kind of crits we land on you and for how much you heal etc... Its actually pretty obvious if someone runs cele or not.

hmm you have a lot more attention at your disposal that I have but that's probably not surprising (as mine is next to nill)

Edited September 15 by willow.8209

[Kulvar.1239]

2 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

Of cause we can. We have played the same specs you play with all kinds of gear and traits. We see how long your boons last, how much condi/power damage you deal to us, and what kind of crits we land on you and for how much you heal etc... Its actually pretty obvious if someone runs cele or not.

I have a friend who plays marauder harbinger. The number of "cele trash" whispers he gets makes me absolutely certain that the vast majority of WvW players have no idea what people are playing and default to blaming celestial because they heard it's "overpowered".

Edited September 15 by Kulvar.1239