Forum Reactions [merged]

[Leo G.4501]

I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I agree. I need a way to downvote any post that I disagree with.

[Leo G.4501]

I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

Unless it's your government that prevents you from speaking, your rights are not being infringed upon. There is no civil right to have a thumbs down option on an internet gaming forum and they have better ways to silence you than removing thumbs down from the forums.

[Leo G.4501]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

Unless it's your government that prevents you from speaking, your rights are not being infringed upon. There is no civil right to have a thumbs down option on an internet gaming forum and they have better ways to silence you than removing thumbs down from the forums.

But considering the government (in this case, the forum mods) do have the power to completely silence you full stop without a lefitimate reason (legitimacy cannot be argued or judged under a fair pretense in this example either), it is indeed a prevention of expression.

Since you cannot say what they don't want you to say, a dislike could be considered the only alternative.

[STIHL.2489]

@Leo G.4501 said:\The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement.

Just in case you didn't know, or perhaps forgot, but you can still disagree with anyone you like as verbosely as you like, it's called a Forum Post. You just can't do it behind the facade of anonymity.

And as a fellow American, I can honestly say, No owning up your feelings and putting it out here bravely, preferring to hide behind an anonymous function to speak for you is about as UnAmerican as you can get.

Just saying on that last bit.

[BeardedVagabond.8136]

HypotheticalSomeone has another opinion on why we don't need mounts or why we need henchies or why HoT failed- they get massively down voted because people don't care what they said, its not what they want to hear and do not give feedbackThis person now feels discouraged to do that again because they feel confused about what an opinion is.Repeat from other players and forum becomes one sided.See a problem?Now you have to give feedback to why you agree or disagree.

Plus it really was not giving any weigh on opinion. They should remove the thumbs up though, its not like people are going to search for top post.

[calb.3128]

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

I really must be missing something here. What is wrong with replying to a post and articulating your disagreement in prose?

To spin this as a limitation on freedom of expression is a stretch.

[Leo G.4501]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:\The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement.

Just in case you didn't know, or perhaps forgot, but you can still disagree with anyone you like as verbosely as you like, it's called a Forum Post. You just can't do it behind the facade of anonymity.

And as a fellow American, I can honestly say, No owning up your feelings and putting it out here bravely, preferring to hide behind an anonymous function to speak for you is about as UnAmerican as you can get.

Just saying on that last bit.

You did not read my post fully. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting forth the same tired countered argument and expect me to write a full comment to correctly represent my argument and counter yours.

Simply put, silent agrees are meaningless when you can only make a post that is promptly ignored because it is not agreement.

[STIHL.2489]

@Epphyx.5078 said:As the title says, I do think that removing the thumb down was a bad idea.1) You did it on the day one Anet post was massively down voted. Most definitly a coincidence but it will stick in people's mind as "they did it so we can't express our disagreement so easily". So bad timing.2) You did not remove Helpfull nor thumb up. If I have to type a message to express how I disagree with a post, with don't I have to type a message to express how I agree ?3) It promote the idea that only positive thoughts are allowed on the forum. But without criticism there's no progress only stagnation.

Without Open Dialogue as to WHY you disagree, simply disagreeing with someone is pointless, and even more pointless when hidden behind an anonymous function button, if you can't put your name to it, it can't matter that much you to.

Equally so, I should not need to explain why I agree, as we are in agreement.

[Zefiris.8297]

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

As a non-american, I continue to be amused by the complete failure of many self-proclaimed Americans to understand what "civil rights" actually means.This is not a free speech issue. In fact, if you actually read your constitution that you whine about, you'd understand that private companies have every right to completely remove any kind of speech they dislike in any way they wish to.

You kids wouldn't have lasted long in forums or usenet, that's for sure.

But considering the government (in this case, the forum mods) do have the power to completely silence you full stop without a lefitimate reason (legitimacy cannot be argued or judged under a fair pretense in this example either), it is indeed a prevention of expression.

Forum mods are. Not. The. Government.Companies. Have. Every. Right. To. ~Silence~. You. (Which they aren't even doing, as your posts continue to be around)-

My god, did they not teach you your own laws at school? This is really, really silly. When I was in school, I apparently learned more about your legal system than you did! How can this even be?

[Ashantara.8731]

How many more threads on the same topic do we need? :#

As I wrote before (twice):

The thumbs down feature would have been a good idea if it weren't for all the trolls who abused it. See, when there is an opinion posted, you have the right to disagree, of course. But often, it was used on posts that did not represent an opinion whatsoever, that were 100% neutral and contained mere information (no more, no less), only to troll the poster (and since it was made anonymous it was even easier to troll someone).

You still can disagree on something the old-fashioned way, by simply posting your counter-opinion, and I am certain many people who agree with you will respond with a thumbs up. :) It has the same effect, but is trollproofed. ;)

[STIHL.2489]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:\The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement.

Just in case you didn't know, or perhaps forgot, but you can still disagree with anyone you like as verbosely as you like, it's called a Forum Post. You just can't do it behind the facade of anonymity.

And as a fellow American, I can honestly say, No owning up your feelings and putting it out here bravely, preferring to hide behind an anonymous function to speak for you is about as UnAmerican as you can get.

Just saying on that last bit.

You did not read my post fully. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting forth the same tired countered argument and expect me to write a full comment to correctly represent my argument and counter yours.

Simply put, silent agrees are meaningless when you can only make a post that is promptly ignored because it is not agreement.

LOL, and yet.. here we are. having a Discussion.. because we disagree. Imagine that. right here, right now, you'e proving yourself wrong, because you responded to me because I disagreed with you, and was brave enough to say it to your face, and not feel the coddling need to hide behind a anonymous "I don't like that" button.

Look at us using the forum as intended.

[Leo G.4501]

@calb.3128 said:

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right, not because thumbs down was removed, but because the reason behind its removal is to police criticism that wasn't in any way inherently negative. And yes, i realize the forums do not follow anything regarding the US constitution but you'd expect someone who is from the country to have similar morals and values, i.e the devs and mods.

Considering the whole social and political climate, just removing thumbs down is an act of favouritism within the community who feel some discourse make a discussion better vs those who think simple dislikes is a negative environment. The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement. This would also mean removing the badge system as well. For someone who enjoys posting, reading and participation in the forums, this is a net loss but an apparently necessary one.

I

really

must be missing something here. What is wrong with replying to a post and articulating your disagreement in prose?

To spin this as a limitation on freedom of expression is a stretch.

Like I've said in multiple theads about this subject, if you don't need a written post to agree and contribute for whatever reason, the same can go for disagreement. Perhaps i already made a post why i disagree and i see a new thread the next day with the same argument? Or what if the argument they make is just bad? Or they just don't have the time to post?

And if you cannot draw parallels with limitations of freedom of speech/expression, i don't know what to tell you...Did you know, Kim Jong Un shot shot 6 bulls eyes consecutively from 30 meters with no prior handgun training when he was 7!!?!?!? Thumbs up if you believe it! Standby for "silencing" if you don't. Now that's living in North Korea.

[Haishao.6851]

@Ashantara.8731 said:How many more threads on the same topic do we need? :#

As I wrote before (twice):

The thumbs down feature would have been a good idea if it weren't for all the trolls who abused it. See, when there is an opinion posted, you have the right to disagree, of course. But often, it was used on posts that did not represent an opinion whatsoever, that were 100% neutral and contained mere information (no more, no less), only to troll the poster (and since it was made anonymous it was even easier to troll someone).

You still can disagree on something the old-fashioned way, by simply posting your counter-opinion, and I am certain many people who agree with you will respond with a thumbs up. :) It has the same effect, but is trollproofed. ;)

How do you even troll with thumbs down?You give someone a thumbs up and when you think they're happy about it you change it to a thumb down?I don't get it

[STIHL.2489]

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

As a non-american, I continue to be amused by the complete failure of many self-proclaimed Americans to understand what "civil rights" actually means.

Trust me, as an American, I am always amused by people always playing that "I know my rights" card, often they are drunk and wrong.

[katz.8376]

@STIHL.2489 said:

Trust me, as an American, I am always amused by people always playing that "I know my rights" card, often they are drunk and wrong.

AH KNOW MAH RIGHTS!

[STIHL.2489]

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:How many more threads on the same topic do we need? :#

As I wrote before (twice):

The thumbs down feature would have been a good idea if it weren't for all the trolls who abused it. See, when there is an opinion posted, you have the right to disagree, of course. But often, it was used on posts that did not represent an opinion whatsoever, that were 100% neutral and contained mere information (no more, no less), only to troll the poster (and since it was made anonymous it was even easier to troll someone).

You still can disagree on something the old-fashioned way, by simply posting your counter-opinion, and I am certain many people who agree with you will respond with a thumbs up. :) It has the same effect, but is trollproofed. ;)

How do you even troll with thumbs down?You give someone a thumbs up and when you think they're happy about it you change it to a thumb down?I don't get it

It's pretty easy, find someone you don't like, and just "thumb down" all their posts, if you can get a friend or two, or maybe your whole guild involved. you can pretty much spam someone with Thumb's Down votes. Just a way to make people look or feel bad, petty childish antics is all. So removing the feature is more a mark on A-net realizing what fine upstanding community they have.. LOL.

[Leo G.4501]

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@"Leo G.4501" said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

As a non-american, I continue to be amused by the complete failure of many self-proclaimed Americans to understand what "civil rights" actually means.This is not a free speech issue. In fact, if you actually read your constitution that you whine about, you'd understand that private companies have every right to completely remove any kind of speech they dislike in any way they wish to.

You kids wouldn't have lasted long in forums or usenet, that's for sure.

It's funny that you completely misrepresent my argument while using insults to make your argument. I'd thumbs down the post to hammer in that message while explaining why to allow no solid ground to argue against.

If you read my post, i express that i understand that the constitution has no power within these context but use the background of those within power (mostly Americans) to consider where they stand morally and bring into question if they value the freedoms people died defending. If they do not value any of that, the argument fails. But the purpose is to appeal to the same emotional side those arguing to remove down votes did to scrap the entire system as its unecessay either way. If you fail to understand that, what else can i tell you but to respectfully explain in further detail why your post misrepresents me but you are not worthy of that much effort.

My god, did they not teach you your own laws at school? This is really, really silly. When I was in school, I apparently learned more about your legal system than you did! How can this even be?

Have you never taken philosophy, public speaking or debate?

[STIHL.2489]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

As a non-american, I continue to be amused by the complete failure of many self-proclaimed Americans to understand what "civil rights" actually means.This is not a free speech issue. In fact, if you actually read your constitution that you whine about, you'd understand that private companies have every right to completely remove any kind of speech they dislike in any way they wish to.

You kids wouldn't have lasted long in forums or usenet, that's for sure.

It's funny that you completely misrepresent my argument while using insults to make your argument. I'd thumbs down the post to hammer in that message while explaining why to allow no solid ground to argue against.

If you read my post, i express that i understand that the constitution has no power within these context but use the background of those within power (mostly Americans) to consider where they stand morally and bring into question if they value the freedoms people died defending. If they do not value any of that, the argument fails. But the purpose is to appeal to the same emotional side those arguing to remove down votes did to scrap the entire system as its unecessay either way. If you fail to understand that, what else can i tell you but to respectfully explain in further detail why your post misrepresents me but you are not worthy of that much effort.

My god, did they not teach you your own laws at school? This is really, really silly. When I was in school, I apparently learned more about your legal system than you did! How can this even be?

Have you never taken philosophy, public speaking or debate?

I think he's got you beat, after all, your whole point was that a point that disagreed would get ignored, and you two just laid that whole thing to rest with responding to him because he disagreed with you. Can't wait to see what becomes of this discussion that was started because you disagreed, and did not hide behind an anonymous button to express that.

[Ashen.2907]

Expressing disagreement in a simple non-offensive manner is not trolling.

Insisting that those who disagree with an expressed idea or post be held to a different standard than those who agree is an attempt to discourage anyone from expressing disagreement. Only those who agree with posts are fully empowered to express their opinion.

On the GW2 forums you can express any opinion you like, as long as it agrees with everyone else...

[Leo G.4501]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:\The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement.

Just in case you didn't know, or perhaps forgot, but you can still disagree with anyone you like as verbosely as you like, it's called a Forum Post. You just can't do it behind the facade of anonymity.

And as a fellow American, I can honestly say, No owning up your feelings and putting it out here bravely, preferring to hide behind an anonymous function to speak for you is about as UnAmerican as you can get.

Just saying on that last bit.

You did not read my post fully. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting forth the same tired countered argument and expect me to write a full comment to correctly represent my argument and counter yours.

Simply put, silent agrees are meaningless when you can only make a post that is promptly ignored because it is not agreement.

LOL, and yet.. here we are. having a Discussion.. because we disagree. Imagine that. right here, right now, you'e proving yourself wrong, because you responded to me because I disagreed with you, and was brave enough to say it to your face, and not feel the coddling need to hide behind a anonymous "I don't like that" button.

Look at us using the forum as intended.

And neither of us are getting anything out of it except wasting more time saying we disagree with each other and not making any headway into getting our point across to the other.

Hmm, i wonder if there was a quicker way to get the same idea across...maybe a switch or...button that would prevent me from needing to repeat myself or tear down the same argument over and over again...

[Razor.6392]

Idk why they removed thumbs down. Is this a safe space like youtube where downvotes are there but serve no purpose? Come on now.

[STIHL.2489]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:\The only recourse is to remove all voting options and leave silence as a mode of disagreement.

Just in case you didn't know, or perhaps forgot, but you can still disagree with anyone you like as verbosely as you like, it's called a Forum Post. You just can't do it behind the facade of anonymity.

And as a fellow American, I can honestly say, No owning up your feelings and putting it out here bravely, preferring to hide behind an anonymous function to speak for you is about as UnAmerican as you can get.

Just saying on that last bit.

You did not read my post fully. Otherwise you wouldn't be putting forth the same tired countered argument and expect me to write a full comment to correctly represent my argument and counter yours.

Simply put, silent agrees are meaningless when you can only make a post that is promptly ignored because it is not agreement.

LOL, and yet.. here we are. having a Discussion.. because we disagree. Imagine that. right here, right now, you'e proving yourself wrong, because you responded to me because I disagreed with you, and was brave enough to say it to your face, and not feel the coddling need to hide behind a anonymous "I don't like that" button.

Look at us using the forum as intended.

And neither of us are getting anything out of it except wasting more time saying we disagree with each other and not making any headway into getting our point across to the other.

Hmm, i wonder if there was a quicker way to get the same idea across...maybe a switch or...button that would prevent me from needing to repeat myself or tear down the same argument over and over again...

Well the fastest way would be to just move along and not get involved.

However, a lack of headway on your part, might have something to do with you invalidating your whole point, by responding to posts that are in disagreement with you. now, if you came to a forum to just press buttons as opposed to seeking to engage in open dialogue, then you missed the whole idea what even coming to a forum is about, it's about discussing things, if you you did not come here for that, then maybe you should spend your time doing something else.. like playing the game.

[Leo G.4501]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Zefiris.8297 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:I'm in agreement.

As an American (and i do realize not everyone on these forums is American but the devs are stationed here) it feels like an infringement of my civil right

As a non-american, I continue to be amused by the complete failure of many self-proclaimed Americans to understand what "civil rights" actually means.This is not a free speech issue. In fact, if you actually read your constitution that you whine about, you'd understand that private companies have every right to completely remove any kind of speech they dislike in any way they wish to.

You kids wouldn't have lasted long in forums or usenet, that's for sure.

It's funny that you completely misrepresent my argument while using insults to make your argument. I'd thumbs down the post to hammer in that message while explaining why to allow no solid ground to argue against.

If you read my post, i express that i understand that the constitution has no power within these context but use the background of those within power (mostly Americans) to consider where they stand morally and bring into question if they value the freedoms people died defending. If they do not value any of that, the argument fails. But the purpose is to appeal to the same emotional side those arguing to remove down votes did to scrap the entire system as its unecessay either way. If you fail to understand that, what else can i tell you but to respectfully explain in further detail why your post misrepresents me but you are not worthy of that much effort.

My god, did they not teach you your own laws at school? This is really, really silly. When I was in school, I apparently learned more about your legal system than you did! How can this even be?

Have you never taken philosophy, public speaking or debate?

I think he's got you beat, after all, your whole point was that a point that disagreed would get ignored, and you two just laid that whole thing to rest with responding to him because he disagreed with you. Can't wait to see what becomes of this discussion that was started because you disagreed, and did not hide behind an anonymous button to express that.

You keep saying hide. Do i have you tear down that argument too?

You must not value my time, but i have an ulterior motive to responding and its not related to proving anything you corroborate to down vote removal.