Elitism - Mass Discussion Thread

[SkyFallsInThunder.8257]

My question is, why do you have a problem with players trying to make a group the way they want it? Just ignore and move on. I don't understand your issue.

[steki.1478]

I don't understand why people are mumbling about same thing over and over again.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@SkyFallsInThunder.8257 Cause I'm mad @ it bro.@steki.1478 Cause they mad about it bro.

[SkyFallsInThunder.8257]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@SkyFallsInThunder.8257 Cause I'm mad @ it bro.@steki.1478 Cause they mad about it bro.

But are they not entitled to play the way they want and to seek like-minded people, while not playing with the people that don't want to play the way they want?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Eramonster.2718 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:My biggest gripe is that these new school fractal/raid specs reeeeeally lean on the druid play. If they can't pull a druid and just try to fill slot with another DPS or join a different group, these players are just dead constantly, 8/10 PUGs are like that.

It's the players choice. But if they are that dependant on the setup (trying to get them not to is akin to suicide) there's little you can do as it's a necessity than efficiency for them.There is a (seemingly) growing number of players that simply can no longer play without druid. They'd play depending on healing even in a group they

know

has no healer, and would then wipe almost immediately on pretty much anything. And it doesn't mean they'd do all that much dps when in optimal conditions either. Some do, but others don't.It's not a matter of efficiency, it's a matter of player skills slipping.

[Agrippa.1693]

@Xantaria.8726 said:The LFG is there for a reason. If you want a chilled run that maybe takes 10-20 minutes longer then make the proper LFG, same for those who wants a run in a progressgroup that trys to clean them as quick as possible.At both you can get holded back by getting bad players, meaning players who dont know their class and/or the mechanics.Just wanting to throw this in here. I have no problem with either of those sides, since i play in both depending on my day and mood. But i hear a lot of hate from both sides about the other, for reasons that are in most cases not even true. So both sides should just cool their heads and simply leave the other side alone.

You more or less describe 2 groups here. Really quickly described as the first group being ppl that go through the fractals asap (for whatever valid reason they have for it) and the second one to not bother too much about the speed/efficiency output.Some ppl are in the 1st group, some in the 2nd, some are one day in the 1st another day in the 2nd, others just don't have the expertise to be in the 1st yet, and first have to start in the 2nd ... I really don't care in which group you are or in what mood you are, most ppl should really just figure that out for themselves, and leave others to it as well. So I completely agree with you there!BUT, you also have those really weird ppl, like me :), I play T4 and CM's for every single day, for I don't know how long now, so the expertise is there, and looking at metrics (time, dps/uptime meters, etc.) I know I'm not that bad either! And then the strange thing is: I want to be in the first group, but I don't want to play Chrono tank, druid healer, BS or Weaver .... So I cannot be in that first group! And this is something that really can be fixed!

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

Yeasterday 99 was daily so i did CM with random meta group and then i left. It was smooth and fun. Then i joined random group for snowbind and volcanic (rest of daily fractals). After 20 minutes i left them. I dont mind if someone is trying to get better but its hard to stay cool when rest of the group die on carring wood to fire (first event) and then you gg on ice elemental 5 times when its on 50 percent of hp cause there is noone left. I probably could have played that better but you always can play better.

I sometimes browse through t1 fractals if there is any new player group so i can give them some adivice and play with them for hours explaining every encounter before fight and so on. But when i do T4 i do them not for loot but for the fun i have from teamwork, strategy and getting as close to prefection as it gets. If you want to aa boss to death you can do it. If you want to kill boss with 5 healing tempest its fine by me. That doesnt mean i have to enjoy that too.

Its true that without druid its harder. But if you take healer then your teamates can "tank" some hits instead of dodging all the time. Again this is strategy and teemwork. The comp is "meta" because it was found out to be best so far. If you find better comp then i am sure it will be meta after a while (if you share it)

Some players enjoy playing with wierd builds, some enjoy efficency, some enjoy fast loot, some enjoy story .... If you cannot find no-meta group then either there are so many players like you so their party is full fast or there are very few. If first is the case then i dont understand your problem. Just form your own group. If second then i am sorry but either find a static group of players like you or w8 more time in lfg but i am not playing with you just so you can do "chill" run (for me chill run is meta run but for others like you it might be diferent)

Good luck with your fractals and hopefuly you will enjoy them at least as much as i do

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Sometimes I like to make LFGs that say: "T4s & CMs Elite Fractal Gods Only No Less 25k APs" and then we take our time watching each other solo content that you are not supposed to solo. Afterwards we have a self gratifying feeling. Other times, we like to get 4 fractal gods in a group, signed in on alt accounts. Then we make an LFG that says: "Need Experienced Player To Teach". Then we purposely create situations and leave the "experienced player" behind us so that he dies, like running past harpies in uncategorized when he thinks we were stopping to kill. Then we sarcastically keep asking him to teach us, while creating situations where he dies and we purposely don't ooc to let him respawn. We try to create situations where he is being carried by us so that he feels bad. Everyone was talking about how ok it is to play however they want to play so I thought I would share this with you.

Oh and also, when we do map clears, we like to form 10 main raid compositions and all get on discord where 1 captain makes calls for us so we can efficiently clear hearts with maximum performance and healing/alacrity. When PUGs try to join our squad, we let them in on purpose and then kick them with some message like: "It's not meta and it is efficient so you cannot follow us, sorry." That's just how we like to play. It is very efficient and we feel self gratification afterwards.

But sometimes I have to ask myself, despite playing how I want to play, when is elitism ok and when is it not?

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Sometimes I like to make LFGs that say: "T4s & CMs Elite Fractal Gods Only No Less 25k APs" and then we take our time watching each other solo content that you are not supposed to solo. Afterwards we have a self gratifying feeling. Other times, we like to get 4 fractal gods in a group, signed in on alt accounts. Then we make an LFG that says: "Need Experienced Player To Teach". Then we purposely create situations and leave the "experienced player" behind us so that he dies, like running past harpies in uncategorized when he thinks we were stopping to kill. Then we sarcastically keep asking him to teach us, while creating situations where he dies and we purposely don't ooc to let him respawn. We try to create situations where he is being carried by us so that he feels bad. Everyone was talking about how ok it is to play however they want to play so I thought I would share this with you.

Oh and also, when we do map clears, we like to form 10 main raid compositions and all get on discord where 1 captain makes calls for us so we can efficiently clear hearts with maximum performance and healing/alacrity. When PUGs try to join our squad, we let them in on purpose and then kick them with some message like: "It's not meta and it is efficient so you cannot follow us, sorry." That's just how we like to play. It is very efficient and we feel self gratification afterwards.

But sometimes I have to ask myself, despite playing how I want to play, when is elitism ok and when is it not?

If this is how you enjoy it then i see no problem with that. If there is one then explain please.

[Vinceman.4572]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Sometimes I like to make LFGs that say: "T4s & CMs Elite Fractal Gods Only No Less 25k APs" and then we take our time watching each other solo content that you are not supposed to solo. Afterwards we have a self gratifying feeling. Other times, we like to get 4 fractal gods in a group, signed in on alt accounts. Then we make an LFG that says: "Need Experienced Player To Teach". Then we purposely create situations and leave the "experienced player" behind us so that he dies, like running past harpies in uncategorized when he thinks we were stopping to kill. Then we sarcastically keep asking him to teach us, while creating situations where he dies and we purposely don't ooc to let him respawn. We try to create situations where he is being carried by us so that he feels bad. Everyone was talking about how ok it is to play however they want to play so I thought I would share this with you.

Oh and also, when we do map clears, we like to form 10 main raid compositions and all get on discord where 1 captain makes calls for us so we can efficiently clear hearts with maximum performance and healing/alacrity. When PUGs try to join our squad, we let them in on purpose and then kick them with some message like: "It's not meta and it is efficient so you cannot follow us, sorry." That's just how we like to play. It is very efficient and we feel self gratification afterwards.

But sometimes I have to ask myself, despite playing how I want to play, when is elitism ok and when is it not?

Brilliant! My guild and I are doing one of those on a daily basis as well since 8 or 9 months now.

[Linken.6345]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Sometimes I like to make LFGs that say: "T4s & CMs Elite Fractal Gods Only No Less 25k APs" and then we take our time watching each other solo content that you are not supposed to solo. Afterwards we have a self gratifying feeling. Other times, we like to get 4 fractal gods in a group, signed in on alt accounts. Then we make an LFG that says: "Need Experienced Player To Teach". Then we purposely create situations and leave the "experienced player" behind us so that he dies, like running past harpies in uncategorized when he thinks we were stopping to kill. Then we sarcastically keep asking him to teach us, while creating situations where he dies and we purposely don't ooc to let him respawn. We try to create situations where he is being carried by us so that he feels bad. Everyone was talking about how ok it is to play however they want to play so I thought I would share this with you.

Oh and also, when we do map clears, we like to form 10 main raid compositions and all get on discord where 1 captain makes calls for us so we can efficiently clear hearts with maximum performance and healing/alacrity. When PUGs try to join our squad, we let them in on purpose and then kick them with some message like: "It's not meta and it is efficient so you cannot follow us, sorry." That's just how we like to play. It is very efficient and we feel self gratification afterwards.

But sometimes I have to ask myself, despite playing how I want to play, when is elitism ok and when is it not?

Most here is fine and a nice sarcasm post btw.Lying to a player that you need to be teached may make him not help real newbies in the future that would appriciate the help tho so dont be a dodohead.

[Feanor.2358]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I can definitely see things getting worse. I was recently on a team that dissolved because I wasn't doing

enough

damage on the weaver... on miscellaneous adds. I could've explained to him that my rotation front-loads meteor shower and so it wasn't optimized for killing trash mobs, but he was such an aggressive puckered kitten that I decided to just let the whole run fall apart instead.

The amount of elitism you see partly comes down to what time you do fractals. Immediately after server reset is when you're going to see the most toxicity. I.E. people demanding LNHB for generic T4 fractals, people hijacking LFGs then kicking you over it, etc. This is at a time where the most children and unemployed adults are playing, so a lot of their frustrations are taken out in the game. Also, a lot of the players who do fractals after reset are trying to farm them for gold as fast as possible, so empathy goes out the door. Finally, the group of people who post up LFGs are the kinds who can't get in a like-minded guild, due to their hostility or their inadequacies, so you'll be getting a lot more antisocial behavior out of the LFG.

Later at night you'll see more relaxed teams forming, but at server reset you'll see nothing but "LHNB 50 ess ping on join NEED CHRONO/DRUID/WEAVER/BS/HOLOSMITH." If you form an "all welcome" team, nobody joins, because they're all in a scurry to get onto these super duper 1337 groups. I don't remember things being this bad two months ago.

Well thats usualy becouse those teams go for the 2 cm fractals ontop of the normal t4s.

I am referring specifically to teams that have LNHB requirements while also NOT doing the CMs. I saw two of them earlier today.

It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I can definitely see things getting worse. I was recently on a team that dissolved because I wasn't doing

enough

damage on the weaver... on miscellaneous adds. I could've explained to him that my rotation front-loads meteor shower and so it wasn't optimized for killing trash mobs, but he was such an aggressive puckered kitten that I decided to just let the whole run fall apart instead.

The amount of elitism you see partly comes down to what time you do fractals. Immediately after server reset is when you're going to see the most toxicity. I.E. people demanding LNHB for generic T4 fractals, people hijacking LFGs then kicking you over it, etc. This is at a time where the most children and unemployed adults are playing, so a lot of their frustrations are taken out in the game. Also, a lot of the players who do fractals after reset are trying to farm them for gold as fast as possible, so empathy goes out the door. Finally, the group of people who post up LFGs are the kinds who can't get in a like-minded guild, due to their hostility or their inadequacies, so you'll be getting a lot more antisocial behavior out of the LFG.

Later at night you'll see more relaxed teams forming, but at server reset you'll see nothing but "LHNB 50 ess ping on join NEED CHRONO/DRUID/WEAVER/BS/HOLOSMITH." If you form an "all welcome" team, nobody joins, because they're all in a scurry to get onto these super duper 1337 groups. I don't remember things being this bad two months ago.

Well thats usualy becouse those teams go for the 2 cm fractals ontop of the normal t4s.

I am referring specifically to teams that have LNHB requirements while also NOT doing the CMs. I saw two of them earlier today.

It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

Waht about asking for credit card number when entering the group?

[Faaris.8013]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I can definitely see things getting worse. I was recently on a team that dissolved because I wasn't doing

enough

damage on the weaver... on miscellaneous adds. I could've explained to him that my rotation front-loads meteor shower and so it wasn't optimized for killing trash mobs, but he was such an aggressive puckered kitten that I decided to just let the whole run fall apart instead.

The amount of elitism you see partly comes down to what time you do fractals. Immediately after server reset is when you're going to see the most toxicity. I.E. people demanding LNHB for generic T4 fractals, people hijacking LFGs then kicking you over it, etc. This is at a time where the most children and unemployed adults are playing, so a lot of their frustrations are taken out in the game. Also, a lot of the players who do fractals after reset are trying to farm them for gold as fast as possible, so empathy goes out the door. Finally, the group of people who post up LFGs are the kinds who can't get in a like-minded guild, due to their hostility or their inadequacies, so you'll be getting a lot more antisocial behavior out of the LFG.

Later at night you'll see more relaxed teams forming, but at server reset you'll see nothing but "LHNB 50 ess ping on join NEED CHRONO/DRUID/WEAVER/BS/HOLOSMITH." If you form an "all welcome" team, nobody joins, because they're all in a scurry to get onto these super duper 1337 groups. I don't remember things being this bad two months ago.

Well thats usualy becouse those teams go for the 2 cm fractals ontop of the normal t4s.

I am referring specifically to teams that have LNHB requirements while also NOT doing the CMs. I saw two of them earlier today.

It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

Waht about asking for credit card number when entering the group?

O_o

You compare a title that you can earn in GW2 with credit card numbers? How did you make that connection??

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I can definitely see things getting worse. I was recently on a team that dissolved because I wasn't doing

enough

damage on the weaver... on miscellaneous adds. I could've explained to him that my rotation front-loads meteor shower and so it wasn't optimized for killing trash mobs, but he was such an aggressive puckered kitten that I decided to just let the whole run fall apart instead.

The amount of elitism you see partly comes down to what time you do fractals. Immediately after server reset is when you're going to see the most toxicity. I.E. people demanding LNHB for generic T4 fractals, people hijacking LFGs then kicking you over it, etc. This is at a time where the most children and unemployed adults are playing, so a lot of their frustrations are taken out in the game. Also, a lot of the players who do fractals after reset are trying to farm them for gold as fast as possible, so empathy goes out the door. Finally, the group of people who post up LFGs are the kinds who can't get in a like-minded guild, due to their hostility or their inadequacies, so you'll be getting a lot more antisocial behavior out of the LFG.

Later at night you'll see more relaxed teams forming, but at server reset you'll see nothing but "LHNB 50 ess ping on join NEED CHRONO/DRUID/WEAVER/BS/HOLOSMITH." If you form an "all welcome" team, nobody joins, because they're all in a scurry to get onto these super duper 1337 groups. I don't remember things being this bad two months ago.

Well thats usualy becouse those teams go for the 2 cm fractals ontop of the normal t4s.

I am referring specifically to teams that have LNHB requirements while also NOT doing the CMs. I saw two of them earlier today.

It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

Waht about asking for credit card number when entering the group?

O_o

You compare a title that you can earn in GW2 with credit card numbers? How did you make that connection??

Previous poster said there's nothing wrong in asking anything I want in my LFG.

[Linken.6345]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I can definitely see things getting worse. I was recently on a team that dissolved because I wasn't doing

enough

damage on the weaver... on miscellaneous adds. I could've explained to him that my rotation front-loads meteor shower and so it wasn't optimized for killing trash mobs, but he was such an aggressive puckered kitten that I decided to just let the whole run fall apart instead.

The amount of elitism you see partly comes down to what time you do fractals. Immediately after server reset is when you're going to see the most toxicity. I.E. people demanding LNHB for generic T4 fractals, people hijacking LFGs then kicking you over it, etc. This is at a time where the most children and unemployed adults are playing, so a lot of their frustrations are taken out in the game. Also, a lot of the players who do fractals after reset are trying to farm them for gold as fast as possible, so empathy goes out the door. Finally, the group of people who post up LFGs are the kinds who can't get in a like-minded guild, due to their hostility or their inadequacies, so you'll be getting a lot more antisocial behavior out of the LFG.

Later at night you'll see more relaxed teams forming, but at server reset you'll see nothing but "LHNB 50 ess ping on join NEED CHRONO/DRUID/WEAVER/BS/HOLOSMITH." If you form an "all welcome" team, nobody joins, because they're all in a scurry to get onto these super duper 1337 groups. I don't remember things being this bad two months ago.

Well thats usualy becouse those teams go for the 2 cm fractals ontop of the normal t4s.

I am referring specifically to teams that have LNHB requirements while also NOT doing the CMs. I saw two of them earlier today.

It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

Waht about asking for credit card number when entering the group?

O_o

You compare a title that you can earn in GW2 with credit card numbers? How did you make that connection??

Previous poster said there's nothing wrong in asking anything I want in my LFG.

Sure you can ask dont think you will get many people joining tho.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

You can ask but i guess you will be either w8ing long time or get someone on the lower side of IQ charts :D

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@"Feanor.2358" said:It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

It sort of is. Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people who are experienced but unlucky, people who have differing playstyles and don't want to grind at CMs, prefer to play their individualized classes and do it well, people who are good but otherwise inexperienced, and so on. Every time somebody makes a "LNHB META CLASSES WE USE METERS", it is spitting in the face of the rest of the community, and it continually propagates the myth that these kinds of requirements are necessary for anything. There is a reason why we call this "toxicity": it spreads and poisons the community. Hostility breeds hostility, elitism breeds prejudice, and there's a reason why it took thousands of years for the concept of "inclusivity" to become a thing.

When I have to make my LFG specifically say that all classes are allowed, just to prevent random joiners from hijacking it and making their own demands, there is a problem.

[Linken.6345]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

It sort of is. Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people who are experienced but unlucky, people who have differing playstyles and don't want to grind at CMs, prefer to play their individualized classes and do it well, people who are good but otherwise inexperienced, and so on. Every time somebody makes a "LNHB META CLASSES WE USE METERS", it is spitting in the face of the rest of the community, and it continually propagates the myth that these kinds of requirements are necessary for anything. There is a reason why we call this "toxicity": it spreads and poisons the community. Hostility breeds hostility, elitism breeds prejudice, and there's a reason why it took thousands of years for the concept of "inclusivity" to become a thing.

When I have to make my LFG specifically say that all classes are allowed, just to prevent random joiners from hijacking it and making their own demands, there is a problem.

I dont see that as a problem you ask for what you want they ask for what they want.If nothing is put up in the lfg someone will usualy fill what they think is need, leave redo lfg and do it right next time.

[Grogba.6204]

"Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people [...]"There is a very simple solution that requires three steps:

1. Ignore the LFG not to your liking
2. open your own LFG
3. Do the content in question

Because forcefully pushing your own idea on how to play any sort of group content is incredible ironic considering the topic. Players whose goal is efficiency are suddenly a problem while no one forces you to play with them. This whole thread is a non issue getting inflated through factless opinions.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@"Grogba.6204" said:

"Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people [...]"There is a very simple solution that requires three steps:

1. Ignore the LFG not to your liking
2. open your own LFG
3. Do the content in question

Because forcefully pushing your own idea on how to play any sort of group content is incredible ironic considering the topic. Players whose goal is efficiency are suddenly a problem while no one forces you to play with them. This whole thread is a non issue getting inflated through factless opinions.

That doesn't work. Consistently seeing unreasonable demands in group request and dealing with unreasonable people is, in itself, shaping the community. And it does so for the worse. Isolationism is a fallacy; even if you think you're hiding away and aren't affecting the community, the fact is you are.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Grogba.6204" said:

"Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people [...]"There is a very simple solution that requires three steps:

1. Ignore the LFG not to your liking
2. open your own LFG
3. Do the content in question

Because forcefully pushing your own idea on how to play any sort of group content is incredible ironic considering the topic. Players whose goal is efficiency are suddenly a problem while no one forces you to play with them. This whole thread is a non issue getting inflated through factless opinions.

That doesn't work. Consistently seeing unreasonable demands in group request and dealing with unreasonable people is, in itself, shaping the community. And it does so for the worse. Isolationism is a fallacy; even if you think you're hiding away and aren't affecting the community, the fact is you are.

PreciselyAnd I ask again to those doing it, are the pros worth the cons in the long run?

[Linken.6345]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Grogba.6204" said:

"Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people [...]"There is a very simple solution that requires three steps:

1. Ignore the LFG not to your liking
2. open your own LFG
3. Do the content in question

Because forcefully pushing your own idea on how to play any sort of group content is incredible ironic considering the topic. Players whose goal is efficiency are suddenly a problem while no one forces you to play with them. This whole thread is a non issue getting inflated through factless opinions.

That doesn't work. Consistently seeing unreasonable demands in group request and dealing with unreasonable people is, in itself, shaping the community. And it does so for the worse. Isolationism is a fallacy; even if you think you're hiding away and aren't affecting the community, the fact is you are.

PreciselyAnd I ask again to those doing it, are the pros worth the cons in the long run?

I dont see how it affect you guys to see a party looking for someone who aint you,Just make your own party and demand what ever you like people to have for joining it.

If I wanted only 29 year old female blonds in my party and asked for skype video call or kick, I could totaly do it. would it fill? Not in a million years.

But why do that bother you guys?

[Aenesthesia.1697]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

It sort of is. Having unreasonable requirements for content shuts out people who are experienced but unlucky, people who have differing playstyles and don't want to grind at CMs, prefer to play their individualized classes and do it well, people who are good but otherwise inexperienced, and so on. Every time somebody makes a "LNHB META CLASSES WE USE METERS", it is spitting in the face of the rest of the community, and it continually propagates the myth that these kinds of requirements are necessary for anything. There is a reason why we call this "toxicity": it spreads and poisons the community. Hostility breeds hostility, elitism breeds prejudice, and there's a reason why it took thousands of years for the concept of "inclusivity" to become a thing.

When I have to make my LFG specifically say that all classes are allowed, just to prevent random joiners from hijacking it and making their own demands, there is a problem.

Sorry but you are way off.

Anyone can start a LFG and request whatever they want. I understand people wanting to complete the CM within a reasonable amount of time, and I understand the requisites they come up with, even though it means I will never get in their groups. It doesn't have to do with elitism, but with people not wanting to take forever to complete a dungeon.

Nothing keeps me from starting my own lfg looking for inexperienced players that want to have a good time dying, or even super experienced players to carry me because I don't have experience and i will inevitable drag the team, because I know I am not that good that I can play CM without seriously screwing up until I get the hang of it. If someone is willing to join me, then so be it.

I bet that CM experienced players will rather join the 'elitist' group, I would also do it, most of the time.

I do open a lot of 'everybody welcome' groups for T1 fractals, by the way. And it feels nice to help people get into fractals, but if you have limited playtime and the fractal has some special mechanic that requires coordination, then prepare to spend a lot of time.

[Feanor.2358]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I can definitely see things getting worse. I was recently on a team that dissolved because I wasn't doing

enough

damage on the weaver... on miscellaneous adds. I could've explained to him that my rotation front-loads meteor shower and so it wasn't optimized for killing trash mobs, but he was such an aggressive puckered kitten that I decided to just let the whole run fall apart instead.

The amount of elitism you see partly comes down to what time you do fractals. Immediately after server reset is when you're going to see the most toxicity. I.E. people demanding LNHB for generic T4 fractals, people hijacking LFGs then kicking you over it, etc. This is at a time where the most children and unemployed adults are playing, so a lot of their frustrations are taken out in the game. Also, a lot of the players who do fractals after reset are trying to farm them for gold as fast as possible, so empathy goes out the door. Finally, the group of people who post up LFGs are the kinds who can't get in a like-minded guild, due to their hostility or their inadequacies, so you'll be getting a lot more antisocial behavior out of the LFG.

Later at night you'll see more relaxed teams forming, but at server reset you'll see nothing but "LHNB 50 ess ping on join NEED CHRONO/DRUID/WEAVER/BS/HOLOSMITH." If you form an "all welcome" team, nobody joins, because they're all in a scurry to get onto these super duper 1337 groups. I don't remember things being this bad two months ago.

Well thats usualy becouse those teams go for the 2 cm fractals ontop of the normal t4s.

I am referring specifically to teams that have LNHB requirements while also NOT doing the CMs. I saw two of them earlier today.

It's just a way to make sure you get decent players. Maybe you already cleared the CMs but the group disbanded. Maybe you don't feel like playing CMs today. In any case, there's nothing wrong with asking for whatever you feel like asking as a requirement for your group.

Waht about asking for credit card number when entering the group?

Sure, if you want to - go ahead. Nobody stops you, although you could get reported and banned. But it is still your choice. And it's the choice of others to join or not.