Game plan to keep players when CU launches?

[LetoII.3782]

@Fuel.3285 said:If Mark's learned from the mistakes and success of DAoC,

He's learned nothing.As much as I believe he wants to make a great game, as much as I want him to make that game.. The reality is he flies too close to the sun again and again. I hear over 100 classes at launch and I cringe.

The man needs someone to tell him when to stop. Instead he has people throwing money at him and begging for more.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:@Dawdler.8521, both games have same engine, gw2 is still made on guildwars engine, and using guildwars engine does not means it is gw1 engine as well, but the base for wich gw2 was developed.This is how ic it.

OH and tweaked engine or not even gw2 is extremelly limited in mechanics :\ it might be a burden for the dev's to do anything besides damage in, damage out in this game.

(EDIT)they cant even fix spirit weapons :}Not sure what part of "modified engine" is hard to understand. The GW2 engine is not the same as the GW engine. By your logic the Quake engine in original Half-Life (or Quake 1) match the Source engine in Half-Life 2 and shares all it's limitations because it's the same basic engine.

Is it the same though? Really?

GW2 is an incredibly flexible engine which Anet has proved again and again over the years - there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

What kind of comparisons are those???Guildwars is the game engine name for both gw1 and gw2 are built... what are u talking about a valve engine with quake one, that is a diferent history, that is taking part of what works well into another project, just like MS stole the code from NetBSd into WinNT netcode...GW2 Guildwars engine is probably a "overtweaked" version of its precursor and not and 100% fully diferent project.

What i ment is that the LN was not using the core core of the 2004 Gw engine that would be the most dumb thing to do...but using already the base version prepared or possible some forked versions wich was being prepared for gw2 as well, it might be even the guildwards engine version wich took base to build gw2 in.Wich in fact some interview (IMO might be wrong) cause they talk since gw engine was dropped the mobile version was canceled, IMO is kinda hilarious, i doubt gw engine would perform well on arm device, due how power hunger the product ends.

Still SpamWars2 engine is not that versatille as u m8 think it is, and this is something that is where Anet is extremelly limited their design classes to "carry" players every expantion and reason why balance is so bad and delayed to take in action cause they can only improve classes damge at most, mounts were an extra and limited adition, u can only use them in some controlled envitoment wich got confined by the game design itself wich in a way has it's own expansion a bit confined due the amount of work dev's need to implement some new features.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Aeolus.3615" said:Guildwars is the game engine name for both gw1 and gw2 are built... what are u talking about a valve engine with quake one, that is a diferent history, that is taking part of what works well into another project, just like MS stole the code from NetBSd into WinNT netcode...GW2 Guildwars engine is probably a "overtweaked" version of its precursor and not and 100% fully diferent project.Neither is Source, its still based on the old Quake Engine. What percentages used are sematics - its still a changed/tweaked/modified engine. How much different do you need? This is the wiki description btw:

Guild Wars 2 uses a heavily modified Guild Wars game engine which includes support for true 3D environments, more detailed environments and models, better lighting and shadows, new animation and effects systems, plus new audio and cinematics engines and a more flexible combat and skill-casting system.[6] It uses Havok to provide destructible environment and ragdoll animation of creatures[7] and Umbra's occlusion culling technology.[8]

What I meant was someone should provide evidence that GW2 engine was used, rather than the old and limited GW engine. You keep saying that the GW2 engine was used but dont back it up. The timeline still matches with using a mature GW engine when GW no longer gonna be supported by Anet (hence no need to keep the engine), not the new GW2 engine. And so far, the information state the GW engine with no references to GW2. If I see an article, an interview or whatever saying that the project used the new GW2 modified engine rather than the GW engine, fine! Matter settled.

[zinkz.7045]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

[Dawdler.8521]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.There are skills with and without cooldowns in GW2 on classes with resource management or a combination thereof (using several different mechanics unique to classes). To say that it's a glorified tab targeted system is ridiculous with many either AoE or hitting what's in front of you - not necessarily what's targetted. Same with most ranged skills as they are mostly physical projectiles that can be body blocked (with some exceptions like the mesmer gs autoattack or scepter 3 which are beams hitting everything in it's path until target). It was also a long time ago since Anet added the action camera which shoot where you aim. You could say... it's flexible? I dont know.

Unlike some games that just give you like... mana and differect effects on skills.

Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.

Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

It only shows they have bought the game.... :cookie:

[zinkz.7045]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.There are skills with and without cooldowns in GW2 on classes with resource management or a combination thereof (using several different mechanics unique to classes). To say that it's a glorified tab targeted system is ridiculous with many either AoE or hitting what's in front of you - not necessarily what's targetted. Same with most ranged skills as they are mostly physical projectiles that can be body blocked (with some exceptions like the mesmer gs autoattack or scepter 3 which are beams hitting everything in it's path until target). It was also a long time ago since Anet added the action camera which shoot where you aim. You could say... it's flexible? I dont know.

Unlike some games that just give you like... mana and differect effects on skills.

Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

The vast majority of skills in GW2 have cooldowns, the game is tab targeted, these are facts, which means many skills in this game are aimed for you, that some skills like most AOEs aren't, does not change that, resource management is common in tab targeted MMOs (and frankly until more recently this game had very little resource management and even what there is now it is rather simplistic / one dimensional), the action cam is irrelevant because its purely optional and not used by the vast majority of the playerbase. (but yes as the name suggests that would make the GW2 combat far more actually like real action based combat than it is).

And yes body blocking is an addition just like dodges, active block, etc to what traditional tab targeted MMOs typically have and make the game more "actiony" but that then that isn't enough to alter the view of people who look at the combat in GW2 as a sort of 'halfway house' between a traditional tab targeted game and a game with real action combat (as you don't seem to like my 'glorified' description).

Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

I'm just reasonably objective, which is something often lacking from people who are too attached to a video game. ;)

[Thei.6901]

@"Norbe.7630" said:What is camelot unchain?that a movie or somethin?

if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

heres a progressive RvR

Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.Published by Kakao.If you have a look at BDO forums, you will really prefer to stay away from this game too.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Bigsexy.8302 said:

@"Norbe.7630" said:What is camelot unchain?that a movie or somethin?

if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

heres a progressive RvR

Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.Published by Kakao.If you have a look at BDO forums, you will really prefer to stay away from this game too.

They always had tons of mechnanic with is a good thing, but they are awfull at workign on them, most ends quite a bit clunky stuff. BDO might be the 1st sandbox that does almost everything a little better but stilll the bug fixeing was dammn awfull just like anet and sw is..... when i stoped played that we were using invunerable wizards in pvp.... cause u could set players to invunerable... just tick the square.

Sandbox mmo's are still something somewhat experimental, the next gen of sandbox's will be a bit better some might even surprise.

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:there is a reason why it still feels like a modern game rather than something released a decade ago. It's as far from "damage in damage out" as it gets. WvW is still unmatched on the scale and detail of PvP. There's been newer games that are very simple in comparison (and in my experience every time they've tried 100+ man open world warfare, it's been practicly unplayable with warping and rubberbanding all over the place. Archeage, ESO, etc).

Except I hear the same thing in most MMORPGs, take ESO as you mention that, there are people in that who proclaim it has the best combat in any MMORPG and that a game like GW2 is old fashioned because it is tab-targeted with cooldowns, etc, basically that GW2 is not really proper action combat, just a glorified tab targeted system with blocks/dodges added on.There are skills with and without cooldowns in GW2 on classes with resource management or a combination thereof (using several different mechanics unique to classes). To say that it's a glorified tab targeted system is ridiculous with many either AoE or hitting what's in front of you - not necessarily what's targetted. Same with most ranged skills as they are mostly physical projectiles that can be body blocked (with some exceptions like the mesmer gs autoattack or scepter 3 which are beams hitting everything in it's path until target). It was also a long time ago since Anet added the action camera which shoot where you aim. You could say... it's flexible? I dont know.

Unlike some games that just give you like... mana and differect effects on skills.

Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

The vast majority of skills in GW2 have cooldowns, the game is tab targeted, these are facts, which means many skills in this game are aimed for you, that some skills like most AOEs aren't, does not change that, resource management is common in tab targeted MMOs (and frankly until more recently this game had very little resource management and even what there is now it is rather simplistic / one dimensional), the action cam is irrelevant because its purely optional and not used by the vast majority of the playerbase. (but yes as the name suggests that would make the GW2 combat far more actually like real action based combat than it is).

And yes body blocking is an addition just like dodges, active block, etc to what traditional tab targeted MMOs typically have and make the game more "actiony" but that then that isn't enough to alter the view of people who look at the combat in GW2 as a sort of 'halfway house' between a traditional tab targeted game and a game with real action combat (as you don't seem to like my 'glorified' description).

Sometimes I wonder if people have played GW2 but if they can write here I suppose so :/

I'm just reasonably objective, which is something often lacking from people who are too attached to a video game. ;)

Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::) but at the end.. just look a the population target of this game, btw melee skills aka cleaves.. dont need tab select, so the game is not that much tab targeting, besides some skill mechanics that are limitied to 1 target like JI, DH f1, every range auto , theres still some sselect target on some skills cause it would be a pain for most to have everything fully non target able.

.. i would love if 90%+ of the game would have no target needed lol just aim and timing.... with exception teleport skills like JI's and alikes.

[Norbe.7630]

@"Bigsexy.8302" said:

Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.

okay

[Thei.6901]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Bigsexy.8302 said:

@Norbe.7630 said:What is camelot unchain?that a movie or somethin?

if you're gonna scare anet make sure you have a real iphone killer, not a No Man’s Sky flop

heres a progressive RvR

Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.Published by Kakao.If you have a look at BDO forums, you will really prefer to stay away from this game too.

They always had tons of mechnanic with is a good thing, but they are awfull at workign on them, most ends quite a bit clunky stuff. BDO might be the 1st sandbox that does almost everything a little better but stilll the bug fixeing was dammn awfull just like anet and sw is..... when i stoped played that we were using invunerable wizards in pvp.... cause u could set players to invunerable... just tick the square.

Sandbox mmo's are still something somewhat experimental, the next gen of sandbox's will be a bit better some might even surprise.

BDO is not really a sandbox, let alone pvp sandbox. It's pretty much online singleplayer game with some pvp options. Although I'm playing it since release for whatever reason.But for real, if you look at the forums, it's nothing but pages after pages of complains. Communication, over-priced items, p2w, lies, incompetent staff members and everything, so get ready to experience this in Ascent: Infinite Realm.So on one side, you have one of the worst publishers I've seen, and then you have the devs of PUBG and TERA that really haven't heard of the word "optimization" and "balance".Sandboxes have been here for 15+ years. Hardly experimental. EvE Online is the only real sandbox though.

@Norbe.7630 said:

@Bigsexy.8302 said:

Please....another horrible korean game. Koreans are just bad at developing anything.

okay

And? What is your point? EU/NA has clueless devs too but nothing even close to East Asia.The only memorable asian mmo is Lineage.

[wanya.1697]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimaland skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

[Vegeta.2563]

As someone that spent 12 years in DAoC .. if CU is anything like DAoC in anyway in term's of RvR .. and if CU's combat is some how better than GW2 (especially if they add dodge mechanic) .. then no doubt in my mind we'll see a lot of WvW Players going to CU. At least to try it out, maybe half come back, half stay. Too soon to tell though.

The thing I loved about DAoC was the fact that you needed to work with your group in terms of fights. You had to rely on your healers, certain classes for crowd control, and tanks for melee and interrupting casters (if you got hit in combat you cant cast a spell so you had to kite).

However the main thing I am not a fan of is Subscription based games, but that won't stop a lot of people that are willing to pay $15 a month.

[Aeolus.3615]

@wanya.1697 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimaland skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

@Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

[Norbe.7630]

the queue system on battlefield got regulars and premium account, the ones that have premium account gets the prioritywhy not make ques prioritize paid account to free accounts

[Kassablanca.5821]

Crowdfall, CU, Ascent Infinite Realm, Project TL all will be GW2 competitors. Current WvW is like for casual players who comes in for 1 hr to afk in the tower or get run over by blob and back to pve. Anet need to step up and make WvW competitive like give out real reward, real rank ability, player tower/keep/city, relic raid. queue system.

[FASTCAR.7831]

Played DAOC 5 years. best pvp/wve EVER...by far.Heck ,my guild is named DAOC

GW2 refuses to fix broken stuff, has added no new classes.

Midgard 4 Life.

When CU comes out, GW2 pop will instantly drop 75%

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@wanya.1697 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimaland skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

@Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

Not totally; ranged weapons with action camera will shoot at the crosshair like an FPS and prioritize a target if it's within the crosshairs.

Action camera ranged-attackers can attack stealthed targets this way without needing to start hitting them prior to entering stealth, which normal-camera cannot.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Ok, full disclosure, I back GW2 via Gem sales, am a backer of CU since kickstarter and a backer of Ashes of Creation which also is RvR styled. The system that GW is planning for the wold restructuring should handle the population fluctuations and should adjust as needed keeping people with others to fight. If it needs 12 worlds this period then 9 next then 15 the one after it should be able to adjust and keep worlds full if the math is correct. So in that essence I think what they are designing should make it so people won't really notice people trying other things, unless a full alliance moves games, but that should be corrected for during the next restructure.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@wanya.1697 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimaland skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

@Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

Not totally; ranged weapons with action camera will shoot at the crosshair like an FPS and prioritize a target if it's within the crosshairs.

Action camera ranged-attackers can attack stealthed targets this way without needing to start hitting them prior to entering stealth, which normal-camera cannot.

Thanks, I never knew this since I don't use action camera.

[Keypek.5716]

@"LetoII.3782" said:If you think gw2 has balance issues, you should see a Mark Jacobs game at launch.

Yeah, was going to comment that after spending over a good decade playing DAOC I have little faith in anything Mark Jacobs is over seeing. Will definitely have to take a "prove it to me" approach with CU when it actually launches for real. Until then it's nothing but hype.

[Wolfric.9380]

I also come from DAOC and it was realy good. Except that it got out of hands trying to give more and more to veterans. I greatly dislike constant power creep and grind.

[Turk.5460]

@Bigsexy.8302 said:

The only memorable asian mmo is Lineage.

You must not have very much knowledge of popular games developed in different regions. Final Fantasy 11 and 14 were a(nd still are) insanely popular. I think 14 currently has more active players than GW2. I personally didn't care for either, but the data doesn't lie about general public reception and enjoyment...

[Eclipse.6203]

Why are people focusing on CU? From what I have seen the devolpment progress of camelot unchained is very slow. If people want to worry about pop. numbers, then look at mmos that are closer to completion, like CF or the other kickstarter sandboxes.

[Aeolus.3615]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@wanya.1697 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

Well fully non tab targetting would be a mistake, still i think rangers should have a aim inteast of select target to hit lol ::)

with Action Combat Camera Ranger can use bows and hit like in a shooter with crosshair no need to tabtarget on projectile weapons

overall I don´t think that we have to worry much about gw2 wvw in the near future although the balancing is not optimaland skilllag and visual noise in bigger fights are problematic there still has to been found an mmo with such an engaging combat system like we got here

That is not how combat camera do, it just auto selects and unselects, just aim near the mob and it will work like tab select, tdlr you are selecting/unslecting target with the crosshair just like if u tab targetted the mob press keys and damage will go straith w/o miss.On shooters u will miss if you cant aim.

And this is actually a great way and imo every range weapons should use this...this should be the native way to play them since this is a game with tab targeting at range.

@Bigsexy.8302 good point on saying BDO is not a fully sanbox game.

Not totally; ranged weapons with action camera will shoot at the crosshair like an FPS and prioritize a target if it's within the crosshairs.

Action camera ranged-attackers can attack stealthed targets this way without needing to start hitting them prior to entering stealth, which normal-camera cannot.

Good point on the stealthed units, still when cross/aim get's on the target it will be selected like tab does and thus skill will be direct.

I think i found a video where he talks of what im saying , arround min 4.50, he shows how aim will auto correct (it felt that on some mobs the hitbox is bigger and thus will damage the mob w/o being actually aiming at it, since this isnt a pure fps hitboxes are treated diferently) and while not aiming decently the mob it will auto correct itself and work like mob was target via the old mode, reason i say it isnt a like a fps, just some flavour, still i always felt action camera should be forced to every one,m the tab select and press buton to make damage is to bad lol.