Upcoming PvP and WvW balance splits!

ZDragon.3046 · February 23, 2018

@Axl.8924 said:
Thats because thieves are about disengaging and running away and +1 a target and avoiding damage, its part of how their mechanic works.I can't speak more about it since i'm not some t1 pvp teef or anything, i'm a casual noob thief.I only played a bit with d/p and saw a video and know that running around and capping and decapping zones and +1 a target, because we are very squishy, so we make up for it in mobility.If you take away thief mobility, you don't have a thief class anymore, and you break it, so we need those evades to survive.
Yeh thats all fine and understandable but mostly what im trying to say is that is a form of sustain that most people dont see as sustain. In many cases people only see sustain as hp I can gain back over time. But often forget that being able to simply just avoid damage or drop out of a fight at any time is a good form of sustain. At this point anet shouldn't have a profession in the game that does not have at least one of the 5 common self sustain options.Every profession should have at least 1 of the following in some way or another to help them sustain-High regeneration over time-Blocks/active counters/parrys-Evades/high moblity-invuln-stealth

A profession which lacks at least 1 of these is going to get thrashed on by everything else that has them. Thats not saying you cant win without them but it does require the player to make the best of reads and never fall to a disadvantage because there are 0 tools to recover from mistakes made. That is necro in a nut shell. It Requires you to make hard reads and time your skills properly.Hope that your foe does not have a certain build because there are some builds that are just about impossible for necro to take the advantage on.

While I would count the fact that most necros even core have good area control / denial thats too easily countered by ranged dps or simply rolling or evading / resistance.

About the only advantage a necro has is eating/corrupting boons and that still requires hard reads to do effectively and even then the necro is not promised to get the boons that he really wants to corrupt if you have enough boons on your bar.

So people saying that necro takes no skill is not an honest statement when necros lack all the safety net mechanics that other professions have while having to make hard reads on all the counter and safety tools every other profession has in order to have a remote shot at winning. (this is even more so true in small scaled fights)

Axl.8924 · February 23, 2018

Personally I want to see if boonspam will get nerfed, then booncorrupt will be something that still exists and wil be powerful, and cleanses to be kept on a leash.

ZDragon.3046 · February 23, 2018

@Axl.8924 said:Personally I want to see if boonspam will get nerfed, then booncorrupt will be something that still exists and wil be powerful, and cleanses to be kept on a leash.

I can agree with this the amount of boon spam in the game is spread too much across too many professions. I feel like 1 maybe 2 professions should be good at it and the rest shouldn't be.

Currently necro is also the only one who does not have the power too boon spam almost every boon on the board its mostly just might and every other profession can do that and much more.

Emapudapus.1307 · February 23, 2018

Not exactly only for "split", but in every mode, they could buff core death shroud, either reduce cd or increase dmg. Its shame death shroud design going to waste atm becuase so subpar. I like all other proposed changes.

ElderNewt.5840 · February 23, 2018

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
@HardRider.2980 said:
@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane.Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels.

Tbh I've always found STAFF in pvp to be a massive issue with the condi spam and control people often to moan about.. this with everything else creates the hate.Staff like in pve needs a complete rework of it's skills..

Lexan.5930 · February 23, 2018

I'm just plain angry at this. Meamwr is getting 4 changes in total to small insignificant skills. They still get invulnerability and crazy sustain and burst. I have screenshots if mesmers doing over 30k damage in under 2 seconds on burst shatter and staff Condi mirage puts out more Condi consistently than a scourge can.

These nerfs are just rediculous and is going to take scourge out if high level PvP for a lot of people.

Yay some wells got a buff, not like they are effective against people who just blink or telleport away and come back 5 seconds later when thier burst has come off cooldown and nuke down the necro anyway.

PvP was fun this season figuring out counterplay to mesmer, thief and spellbreaker, now its just going to be burst and Condi mesmers reining the natches

Shazmataz.1423 · February 23, 2018

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:
@Nimon.7840 said:No better: we want necro to fit its theme:
Death
-for your allies, because you have no good support-for yourself, because your dmg sux and you have almost no defensive skills
-for enemys?! -no i guess not. Or maybe yes. By rerolling necro into rev or ele

Meta in WvW : Guard / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / scourge / weaver / hammer rev / chrono ... repeat

As a WvW player im tired of Necro players. They are the best class in wvw since HoT launch and they still dont understand why they get nerfs.

All the balance patch is is some extra cd on f2 - f5 . Thats it.

You guys should feel lucky that Scourge will still be the best class in WvW even after all the nerfs.

Which should tell you how broken it is/was.

Oh and the only (soft) counter to scourge gets nerfed too.

Lucky Lucky Scourge player.

All I can say to all the wvw scourge complainers....learn to dodge. For goodness sake the only place scourge/warrior bubble is a problem is in a confined space where you are more likely to run out of dodges. Scourge is deadmeat if it doesn't dodge just like any other player and it relies heavily on support from party mates for survival. A scourge is useless outside of a party in wvw.

Pvp is another matter and Anet have screwed up there bigtime....if they reduced the size of the shade aoe and area of effect things would be alot different. But instead, all they talk about is increasing cooldowns smh.

DeceiverX.8361 · February 24, 2018

@"Axl.8924" said:Personally I want to see if boonspam will get nerfed, then booncorrupt will be something that still exists and wil be powerful, and cleanses to be kept on a leash.

This is the sole reason necros appear overtuned in WvW and sPvP.

Boons account for too much of builds today and corrupting them just shuts them down. Seeing as necro is designed with corrupting boons as a major part of its identity, it implicitly performs to levels not seen from any other profession.

It's also why it's weak in PvE; PvE encounters do not correspond to what happens in PvP and WvW in terms of boons and the efficacy of soft CC and need for condi management/transfers.

Boons and conditions need toning down across the board to how they were supposed to be designed, which was short-term bumps of power to some extent that required some significant investment to pull off. Recall that at one point, "For Great Justice!" was seen as a good skill due to the boons/duration it provided and its low relative cooldown.

I think a lot of it has to do with the PvE mindset of people playing support roles/making one class too strong or something.

PvE encounters punish diversity in strategy or spreading resources thin to cover a lot of bases at the same time. And that's a problem. Stack-and-smack into damage sponges isn't good gameplay and as a consequence will always result in imbalance and power creep on the numbers level.

Put elevated archers on platforms that can't be accessed in melee in the middle of a boss fight to demand ranged support to make the fight easy. Have bosses and mobs spam boons to make the encounters deliberately harder to beat if not shut down/corrupted. Have bosses drop invulns when threatened and parry individual attacks to make people need to pull back for a minute. Remove the break bar concept and make soft CC actually have an effect. Send huge platoons of enemies at a party for a fixed amount of time that gets increasingly harder with each kill to reward playing tanky. Have steakthed assassins hit individual party members from stealth to require awareness and play to their own defenses if need be instead of just rotating skills endlessly to encourage bringing revealed effects. Require more interaction with the environment. Randomize encounters drastically in the middle of combat to prevent build-switching to encourage jack-of-all-trades builds as "safe" options. Reward diverse comps and individually-skillful play. This is how you fix PvE at the "high-end."

Numerical balance means nothing if the entire concept of a profession itself doesn't mesh. Hard PvE should be demanding and difficult for every individual member. It should require the same skillsets as PvP environments and reward the same styles of play and reward playing well into a variety of circumstances. Mashing buttons and rotating skills while only paying attention of when to dodge or press F for some gimmick boss mechanic isn't difficult or interesting or encourage diversity.

Jinks.2057 · February 24, 2018

@DeceiverX.8361 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
@HardRider.2980 said:
@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.

Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane.Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels.

I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell.

Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta.

S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone.

D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average.

On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper.

D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry.

The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide.

DeceiverX.8361 · February 24, 2018

@Jinks.2057 said:
@DeceiverX.8361 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
@HardRider.2980 said:
@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore.