Wonder why some people never WVW

[polter.3241]

Thy get deterred by the gandara/desolation love affaire atm.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@derd.6413 said:

@FASTCAR.7831 said:

@derd.6413 said:because open world pvp and getting one shot by mesmers doesn't appeal to everybody

Something is wring if a Mez 1 shots you

you can't expect new players to know what they're doing

Wrong * =P

[FASTCAR.7831]

@CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:

I personally don't understand why some people prefer to exclusively play PvP or WvW. I don't find those modes engaging at all (and I'm not very into "competitive gaming" in general). This is massively multiplayer online

role playing

game, after.

What? WvW is very much engaging and social though, compared to your average pve zone. You can run solo or with a group, either with a open tag or join a guild that raids, roaming or havoc group. It helps to play with the same group of people everyday, join voice Comms if you can and be a part of your wvw community.

WvW isn't that competitive as pvp, but you need a willingness to improve, if you join a organized fighting zerg, or even have a competent roaming build.

wvw is pvp, I assume you mean spvp

[reddie.5861]

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.https://imgur.com/a/WZ7DV

something to be proud, i guess? :Dthis why the alliance system gonna suck also, people always gather all the shit on 1 server then wonder why theres nothing to fight.u need to pump these retarded try hard people over all servers and thats how u create fun for every1.

all try hards go to server Aserver B is full of people who try hard when they feel like LOGINserver C is casual.

Server A wins all constantly.server A is also the first server to completely die where every1 rage quits out of boredom or transfers away cus nothing to do.

server B and C are the ones who are actually having fun.cus server A provides em constant flow of PvP / deffend / capping.

see what i did tharr?? ;) desolation basically will be a dead server soon (again).

[Kamara.4187]

Before GW2 WVW I was not big on competitive play. I liked it a little in WoW (pvp instances). Dueled alot in SWG but wasn't a fan of open world pvp all that much. GW2 changed that for me. It was just so epic I couldn't walk away from it. I learned to relax and accept that dying was gonna happen, and it was ok. As strange as that may sound its the truth...for me at least. I took it too serious and was afraid of messing up.

It helped that I met people that were willing to take the time to teach me, and taught me to laugh it off when things don't quite work out...like forgetting your in a no glide zone when you jump off that cliff (And I know I'm not the only one :P). I was also bold enough to bite back when people went off on me, and new players for messing up...I didn't let it turn me away from the game mode. Sadly many have walked away because of it.

It can be very frustrating for a new player in wvw. Not knowing the map, or the difference between team and map chat, where to place siege, not knowing to let the tower go for the sake of the keeps with wp's in them. What wvw short hand means like garri, hills, bay, NC, SWC, OW, Fire, Air, QL, SUP, AC, TREB, BALI...When a new person see's that in chat for the first time its a mystery to them, and we would do well to remember those days, and thank those that took the time to teach us by paying it forward to the new Wvw'er.

[Kirnale.5914]

Ganking is the number one reason why new players leave this game mode almost immediately. Some players still have bad memories from older games that includes open PVP. Getting ganked once or twice will lead to instant quit. Getting one shot on top of it would make a player quit even faster than it already is.

Points, winning and stuff like that doesnt even matter to newer players. The only thing a new player do is to figure out how wvw works. Most of them won't even learn this, as they quit as soon as they start playing wvw.

[Duncanmix.5238]

From competitive player perspective, WvW is simply too chill and relaxed. I don't really know how else to put it, but its almost like they are trying to cater to casual players in competitive world. And that is probably reason why WvW is dying and most of big competitive guild are moving on to other games.One of the main things that is missing are all kind of rankings and statistics. If u look at other competitive sports or even esport games, one of main features are statistics.Open any sport channel and u will hear things like: rebounds, points, assists, interceptions, steals ... And not only individual stats but teams and fans care about legacy. If u pick any sport and leagues u can find history, winners and all kind of cool stats. Even in esports u can find past winners etc...Who here remember Vizunah Square and their domination in begin of game? Probably almost nobody and new players for sure dont know about this because there are no stats anywhere. How about stat for server who held first place for most consecutive weeks in a row, or which server had highest elo rank. How about weekly individual rankings like: most kills, most revives, most heals, most defense, most dolyak escorts etc... All of this would promote some competitive drive and would probably lure people and give them reason to compete.The moment that I lost any interest in WvW was when they removed weekly match up threads. I feel since that moment WvW kept losing more and more people becauseit was final nail in the coffin for all competitive minds. Because now u coudnt express your anger or joy, u coudn't gloat and enjoy your victories, share them etc. And I understand that a lot of people think this was good idea because these threads were full of trash talking, but let me just give my opinion. Trash talking is good in competitive world. Take a look at dota2, counter strike, lol etc... These games are years and years old and succesful and yet they are famous for "cancer communities". That is because competitive people dont mind trash talk, in fact if I'm losing I dont mind venting out, and if someone is trash talking me its fine to me also. Because 5 minutes after game is over I already forgot about that dude and im ready to play another match.All in all I just feel WvW the way it is now, is more suited to casual player rather then someone who enjoy competition. Thats why I personally dont bother with it.

[DemonSeed.3528]

The bar is pretty high for new comers. Essentially it's trial by fire. Most have 0 idea what the purpose in WvW is, or some are spurred on by watching a montage or two and think they can come in and kick ass only to be insta killed hehe. I think many would be put off pretty quickly from the game mode unless they are "buffered" by good players/zerg around them. Then there's also "class x can kill so quickly" etc but over time as they gain experience and knowledge they will eventually improve depending on their willpower and motivation but it's a long road for the average newcomer. I just wish there was some way we could teach newer players without having to throw them directly into the fire. There are some youtubers who have made videos but that is still not enough in educating newer people as they also have to understand their class and roles and the situations that call for certain tactics.

When I first saw wvw, I could not understand the attraction to it. I couldn't understand why anyone would exclusively play the game mode. I almost didn't believe people would even do that. Then one day I randomly came in, and just rolled with the crowd, absorbing all I could and eventually began wanting to learn more about every single class, build, weaponset. From there on that's all I could do. I died so many times but I was excited because I wanted to learn how to beat people that were handing my ass to me. Is it maddening when someone kills me? Yes, but many times I know it was a mistake on my part and that just motivates me more to improve. The other motivation I had was fighting for my server and the people I played with. You learn the weaknesses and strengths of those around you and their playstyles. I loved learning all the maps and terrain to my advantage too. My problem with wvw is I can't stop playing it. I have become the people that I did not understand who loved the game mode, and am playing it exclusively :)

I agree though, ganking probably rates as one of the top reasons new players would quit so fast. There is no seperation between veterans and new players and it's the wild wild west where everything goes. That is just the primary hurdle that new players have to get through, but I think that when they get a feeling of progression it hooks them and keeps reeling them in. I think that progression part is important, feeling like they can deal with other classes and not dying at every encounter. Now this doesn't mean that skills and stuff have to cater to casual play and be dumbed down in any way, it just means there needs to be a better way to train & educate new comers so they don't come in blindly and blame everything is overpowered except the class they are using. Whenever I come across a new player I try to teach them stuff, or I just say things with newcomers in mind so even if they don't ask they will understand what is going on. I see many reluctant to ask and I don't blame them. I think for many of those who come in blindly think it's just a plug and play mode where you don't need to really know anything and just kill enemies.

[Jujitzu.7124]

" Sorry for my Eng"Many people do not play in WvW simply because there is no balance between the classes, there are no rules, there is no minimum respect for the opponent, we always play is only in the same 4 boring and repetitive maps. It is clear that Arena has no interest in implementing the game as the last upgrade of POF, no change in wvw, no new map. Not to mention the guild system, completely meaningless, the guild membership does not lead to any improvement for the player except to be able to Claim a field or a tower, using a bonus based on the guild level.wvw has incredible potential, but the policy that governs it has made it a poor place.

[SWI.4127]

@reddie.5861 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.

https://imgur.com/a/WZ7DV

something to be proud, i guess? :Dthis why the alliance system gonna suck also, people always gather all the kitten on 1 server then wonder why theres nothing to fight.

I think the idea behind alliances is you can only fit so much into one alliance, and the alliance is only a certain fraction of a "world". So there will be a lot more fluidity. I'm sure there will be some stacked alliances, but not to the degree that you can currently stack an entire server. That's the idea at least...whether or not the implementation works is another matter.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@"Jujitzu.7124" said:" Sorry for my Eng"Many people do not play in WvW simply because there is no balance between the classes, there are no rules, there is no minimum respect for the opponent, we always play is only in the same 4 boring and repetitive maps. It is clear that Arena has no interest in implementing the game as the last upgrade of POF, no change in wvw, no new map. Not to mention the guild system, completely meaningless, the guild membership does not lead to any improvement for the player except to be able to Claim a field or a tower, using a bonus based on the guild level.wvw has incredible potential, but the policy that governs it has made it a poor place.

I think the balance is fineRules? this is WAR !Respect for the enemy? this is WAR

[reddie.5861]

@SWI.4127 said:

@reddie.5861 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.

https://imgur.com/a/WZ7DV

something to be proud, i guess? :Dthis why the alliance system gonna suck also, people always gather all the kitten on 1 server then wonder why theres nothing to fight.

I think the idea behind alliances is you can only fit so much into one alliance, and the alliance is only a certain fraction of a "world". So there will be a lot more fluidity. I'm sure there will be some stacked alliances, but not to the degree that you can currently stack an entire server. That's the idea at least...whether or not the implementation works is another matter.

well if a guild max is X players? (which is already huge now just dont know number) imagine how big of a ally u can create with just 2 guilds.

[hunkamania.7561]

WVW is a very unrewarding gamemode with no purpose or meaning.

[Hypatia.3160]

@FASTCAR.7831 said:WvW is the most fun in this game.That is an opinion and not a universal truth. Reminds me of my mother trying to get me to eat peas. I understand that you love peas Mom. I just wish you'd accept that I do not.

@FASTCAR.7831 said:Must be a reason many new games are no pvE at all, including Camelot UnchainedIt's a hell of a lot cheaper to make a PvP sandbox than a PvE themepark. When all the investment you've got is crowdfunded you're going to opt for what you can afford. IMO there are too many for the potential population. Just look at the MOBA subgenre and how many have shut down in the last year or so. Actually it's probably easier to see how many are still thriving.

In fact one of the newest PvP-only MMO's has just announced they're walking back on that: http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/30/tale-of-toast-is-giving-up-on-being-a-free-for-all-pvp-mmo/

@FASTCAR.7831 said:So many ONLY pvE.Wonder why.Some people would much rather have a hamburger than peas.

I've engaged in both PvE and PvP in all of the MMO's I've played seriously. I vastly prefer PvE content. Not too long ago I tried to figure out why.

Many, many PvP players do it for the adrenaline rush. If that's you, congratulations, you're in the 15% of the population that enjoys that feeling. I'm at the other end of the spectrum that actively dislikes it.

More importantly when I sign in to play I don't want to waste my time. There are certain things I want to accomplish and to have somebody come along and harass me in what should be a PvE context is not something I appreciate nor welcome. I don't need to have a sense of danger to have fun.

Now to be specific regarding GW2's WvW... It simply isn't all that approachable. Sooner or later the PvP focused folks will figure it out but for those of us not so fond of it it's quite a bit more challenging. There's a dearth of information out there and what little is there is conflicting. I'm on an underdog server. Took me five tries to find a time when commanders were actually advertising their roams.

[michelada.2947]

i just can't believe the amount of the time you have to invest to get all the pips everyweek , it's just too much

[necromaniac.7629]

I just don't really understand WvW other than the fact that you are and some people are trying to capture an enemy territory, o.0? idk.....................

[Chaba.5410]

@Hypatia.3160 said:More importantly when I sign in to play I don't want to waste my time. There are certain things I want to accomplish and to have somebody come along and harass me in what should be a PvE context is not something I appreciate nor welcome. I don't need to have a sense of danger to have fun.

Let's be honest though. Games are all about wasting time. When you gotta play through some PvE content to get something like unlock a reward track, it also feels like wasting time, especially when you gotta sit through unskippable cut scenes and dialog and can't just burn through fast with your optimized PvE build. Wasting time is not a unique feature of a specific game mode here. Games themselves are time wasters and MMOs in particular are designed to waste as much of your time as possible, keep you in the game and playing so you are more prone to spend money on it - think grind.

[Lexi.1398]

trying to solo roam and getting killed by about 6 maguuma players camping my server's spawn was a fond memory...:P

anyway, i think wvw has several problems that mean people don't enjoy it:

1. mobility, even worse with pof is how SLOWLY you get around the maps. not the worst problem, but taking a boring 10 minute run to the opposite side of the map appeals to no one.

2. main issue: the skill CLIFF anyone new to wvw faces.i mean the pve aspects are fine, anyone who knows how to play the game can take a camp, if good at pve maybe even a champion in eotm. that's not the issue. the issue is pvp. might be fine for those who're used to pvp - i know the tactics aren't exactly the same, but someone who pvps has an idea of the skill level needed to take on another player. it is difficult to learn how to fight when you get OHKO'd by cheap builds you haven't yet learned how to counter and don't even have a chance to, when you're outnumbered 1 to 2+, when zergs have no chill and the entire thing swarms to kill some lowly rank 8 player who still has no idea what they're doing. don't get me wrong - it's all counterable (well, aside that zerg thing...) and possible to learn - but i think it's exceedingly difficult to learn to roam and this brings me onto:

3. following a tag hit up towers and stuff is pretty boring (especially if someone has a low dps build and isn't spamming all their movement speed skills and can barely even tag them), and if you aren't somewhat effective at fighting the pvp aspects zerg v zerg (pre scourgewall) it isn't very fun - it's an experience that is hoping no one targets you. and now, in the scourgewall era, it's even LESS fun because if you don't immediately run out of the pretty orange circles you might as well resign already. overall, this is an issue directly related to the skill cliff - especially concerning zerg v zerg combat.

note: skill cliff is an issue that assumes a person doesn't mind the pvp aspects of it. some people just don't like pvp straight up and will avoid it vehemently, and those people never need to worry about that skill cliff cus they'll never do anything but wvw dailies and following zerg for GoB - and those people are going to get frustrated and even more repulsed from wvw when they meet the skill cliff getting killed by a good solo roamer trying to reach a monument. not everyone wants to learn to deal with that and prefer the challenges pve provides instead.

[FASTCAR.7831]

@michelada.2947 said:i just can't believe the amount of the time you have to invest to get all the pips everyweek , it's just too much

Real WVW people dont care about score or pips or lootIt is about killing

[Euryon.9248]

@"Duncanmix.5238" said:From competitive player perspective, WvW is simply too chill and relaxed. I don't really know how else to put it, but its almost like they are trying to cater to casual players in competitive world. And that is probably reason why WvW is dying and most of big competitive guild are moving on to other games.One of the main things that is missing are all kind of rankings and statistics. If u look at other competitive sports or even esport games, one of main features are statistics.Open any sport channel and u will hear things like: rebounds, points, assists, interceptions, steals ... And not only individual stats but teams and fans care about legacy. If u pick any sport and leagues u can find history, winners and all kind of cool stats. Even in esports u can find past winners etc...Who here remember Vizunah Square and their domination in begin of game? Probably almost nobody and new players for sure dont know about this because there are no stats anywhere. How about stat for server who held first place for most consecutive weeks in a row, or which server had highest elo rank. How about weekly individual rankings like: most kills, most revives, most heals, most defense, most dolyak escorts etc... All of this would promote some competitive drive and would probably lure people and give them reason to compete.The moment that I lost any interest in WvW was when they removed weekly match up threads. I feel since that moment WvW kept losing more and more people becauseit was final nail in the coffin for all competitive minds. Because now u coudnt express your anger or joy, u coudn't gloat and enjoy your victories, share them etc. And I understand that a lot of people think this was good idea because these threads were full of trash talking, but let me just give my opinion. Trash talking is good in competitive world. Take a look at dota2, counter strike, lol etc... These games are years and years old and succesful and yet they are famous for "cancer communities". That is because competitive people dont mind trash talk, in fact if I'm losing I dont mind venting out, and if someone is trash talking me its fine to me also. Because 5 minutes after game is over I already forgot about that dude and im ready to play another match.All in all I just feel WvW the way it is now, is more suited to casual player rather then someone who enjoy competition. Thats why I personally dont bother with it.

There are many of us who wvw instead of PvP precisely because of this.There's a reason it's called "trash" talking -- it's ugly, it stinks, it has no redeeming value and brings nothing positive to the experience. If you can't be a good sport, then stfu. Listening to someone gloat or go on about how good they are is tiresome and annoying. If you have to put someone else down to make yourself feel better, that's just sad.And if ultra-competitive, elitist players have left wvw because it's too "casual and chill", then good riddance. It makes for a better experience for the rest of us.

[Duncanmix.5238]

Problem for anet is that they cant really have your mindset. Good riddance means dead and empty game mode. There is a reason why server mergers are happening. Even with that, matchups are abysmal. To someone who played this game mode since begin its clear that its dying. You cant have competitive war game, and then cater to peaceful non competitive people. Well actually you can, but then game mode becomes wasteland. If they dont give competitive people something, like anything ... I dont even need trashtalking. Just give us rankings, give us statistics so at least I can compete in something. It is not enough when u press B and see some useless number that is gone next week. Follow what has worked for all sports and all competition. Let people try to build their legacies. Let them try to break records. Give people competitive tools. But I'm not even sure if its already too late. Because like I said competitive people moved on. If I wanna do some pvp, there are plenty of good options for me.

[intox.6347]

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Actually, this is why less people WvW. And more will quit.https://imgur.com/a/WZ7DV

Yop thats a problem. But its only coz of easy transfers and links.... u just transfer to linked server and overstack it...

Im on Deso from start... it hard good times also hard times... but now ? We have link and also lot of people from FSP transfered, so we have more ppl then ever ...How it looks for average player with work... so i can play like from 18:00 + ? 70+queue on EB, 25+Queue on other border with commander, other two.. gvgs or empty.

But almost same is Vabbi ... they stacked wvw guilds to be competetive, but its not fun fights 50 pug group against 2x 20 guild groups + 10 pug ....

It was happening before with servers like Vizunah Square, Seafarer rest.... but once wvw guilds move, bandwagonners follow and server fails :dizzy:

Dunno why ppl like this, they try to avoid any challenge and just win.

[Hypatia.3160]

@"Chaba.5410" said:Let's be honest though. Games are all about wasting time.Hardly. If I'm entertained, did I just waste my time? The answer for me is "not at all". You're perfectly welcome to feel that I should be doing something else like charity work but that hardly matters to those wondering why people don't engage in their favorite activity.

Now to explain my position if I'm doing a PvE activity in a PvE zone the last thing I want is for some edgelord coming in to interfere with my progress. That's not entertainment and that is is NOT what I've paid for. I'm aware that some adrenaline addicts need that but, like I've already mentioned, the less chance for that to happen the happier I'll be.

So that's more a response to a certain subpopulation shocked that people don't like to PvP. To be more WvW specific I'll just restate how difficult it is to get into if you don't already have a guild or group. It's even harder if you picked an underdog server at account creation and are now faced with having to pay to move someplace else purely on speculation to see if you like a mode. I certainly understand why there's a paywall but that feature actively discourages new people.

[Coldtart.4785]

Playing wvw as intended is soul-crushingly boring. Seige """""fights""""" are basically just hours-long staring contests and there haven't been good gvg guilds for years now. Roaming is no better. Mostly all you get to do is just fight mobs and on the odd occasion that you do find enemy players you'll either auto-win or auto-lose because of build matchup or numbers.

[mindcircus.1506]

The number one reason people don't play competitive game modes is that the learning curve involves getting your butt handed to you until you get it right. This runs contrary to the main reason a large number of people play video games in the first place, to live out a power fantasy.They will find a number of reasons to cloak their displeasure with the experience. They will blame it on the balance, the rules, other players doing "unfair" things (ect) but at the root they don't want to experience any form of loss or breaking of their fantasy that they are an unstoppable force.WvW is especially bad for breaking this power fantasy as it takes your established character that you have built up over weeks against objectively non-challenging content and kills you instantly for doing nothing differently.That full bezerker warrior who was godly one shotting the personal story is now dead for just standing in the wrong red circles.Most players do not want to accept that suspension of fantasy long enough to alter what they are doing, take their deaths and learn. They say "Thief and Mesmer are broken" or "it's just full of gankers" or "the devs have no idea what they are doing" and move on to content that holds up a different vision of their skills.

Nothing wrong with it, it's just human nature.

The Devs have done just about everything they actually can to ease this in both competitive game modes. Some people are never going to enjoy competitive play. It runs contrary to why they play these games in the first place.