apharma.3741 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASTCAR.7831 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @EremiteAngel.9765 said:Speaking as a Necro main.They are a nightmare.I have bias.But their endless stealth needs nerf.DE have no effect on me at all, I find them weak and easy bags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I'll stealth for launching Cursed bullt, getting Revealed since Deaths Judgment is kind of expensive, and to drop myself as target but the strength of deadeye for me is to generate malice quickly and trim it's buildup to roll up the bottom end of Mark so that there's little downtime. I don't have long to play after work for methodical stealth play but I can't look down on thieves who do, I've seen some really good setups just end up in death but I've seen some awesome payoffs to, if they have the time for it that kind of build has it's risk and frustrations. I can't think of any builds or classes that I can hate on really even if I get my ass kicked in creative ways sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining One.1635 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I've always felt that stealth should have a downside. There was a game I played about 20 years ago that had an invisibility mechanic. While you were invisible, you had a negative armor modifier. Thus, if you tried using it after the enemy saw you, you risked being killed in one hit. Stealth has no risk in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch.4810 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @"Shining One.1635" said:I've always felt that stealth should have a downside. There was a game I played about 20 years ago that had an invisibility mechanic. While you were invisible, you had a negative armor modifier. Thus, if you tried using it after the enemy saw you, you risked being killed in one hit. Stealth has no risk in this game.Stealth is a little clunky atm, but I think it works sort of OK: In WvW there is enough AoE to push glass cannons builds away from the action, and in PvP players in stealth do not contribute to cap/decap mechanic. Stealth does enable player to "deselect himself" from being active target. Going for a stealth build can often be a downside in itself, but that could be said for every build. If you pick your engagements properly, having in mind builds strengths/weaknesses you can play to your strengths and get good results. Having that in mind, ranged class dominating over Necro in a 1v1 setting is expected, and desired outcome, giving some interesting choices for team/squad composition and roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axelteas.7192 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I'm vanilla thief, the team ixpects I capture. get One-shgot by deadeye. I cannot avoid their shot when I was hidden in invisible? WTF anet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.The game validations on gw2 are @ level of a beta game after 6 years, block/absorv/reflect is another issue.Anet dont care to improve the game, this is a game for casuals since those improvements m8 make the game to hard for casuals and they cant spam if they have to think just a bit...Anet have extreme poor quality in Skill QoL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bq pd.2148 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief). 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Aeolus.3615 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief).@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief).Ive seen players getting bursted down in 2-3 seconds w/o the thief being revealed, and only be visible for me and other players in that area after down that player, stealth needs to be looked at, it is still in beta state lol... this actually happened last week, maybe because there was a really scourge spamblob nearby and thief getting out of stealth remain culled from being rendered in players screens.And like i said... i dont mind perma stealth thiefs, still they need to apear to atack on targets and what is happening is that most keep the initial seconds of a fight atacking stealthed and it is not 1 hit... 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bq pd.2148 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @Aeolus.3615 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief).@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief).Ive seen players getting bursted down in 2-3 seconds w/o the thief being revealed, and only be visible for me and other players in that area after down that player, stealth needs to be looked at, it is still in beta state lol... this actually happened last week, maybe because there was a really scourge spamblob nearby and thief getting out of stealth remain culled from being rendered in players screens.Like i said it would be a issue, for code reasons, reasons like u pointed, and ive actually downed invisible thiefs alone with 1 or 2 hits, but that does not mean stealth should keep working in a strange way like it is working.sure stealth could be changed but making proposals that will just make stealth useless and pretty much non existent in any real combat situation wont get us there. 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VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 it all boils down to: stealth is broken. Stealth needs to be removed.You can either have stealth, or be mobile and able to attack. If you have both, it is broken. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @MUDse.7623 said:@Aeolus.3615 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief).@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:@apharma.3741 said:@MUDse.7623 said:i wonder why there are so few players who run mainly deadeye, if they are this strong. deadeyes must have some downside to them, roamers are not known to avoid cheese builds so we would see way more if it was that easy.but as it is most deadeyes i see are not maining deadeye but switch to them after being killed by one, just to realize that they will die again as they are inexperienced.It’s probably because most players [..] dislike sitting in stealth for 5 minutes stalking someone well above was posted:@EremiteAngel.9765 said:deadeyes can remain perma invis while roaming until they choose to engage.In which case, they would be dealing insane amount of damage out of invis with no tell.They usually cast mark which is a daze/stun and then burst.This require insane reflexes from the player to break stun and negate their damage or for the player to trait auto-trigger damage immune traits.he said if the deadeye choose to engage so there is no need to stalk someone for 5 minutes, its a choice. then comes insane damage without tells so sounds to me like a pretty easy super safe build that will grant me alot of kills in no time.but it is interesting to ask for a nerf without realizing that DE builds that daze/stun from mark and then immediatly burst are usually not the permastealth ones. going along side to SA with trickery instead of CS is quite the damage loss and the extra ini is not needed as you can oneshot - so no daze from there, if you try to remain in stealth you allways will go with silent scope and not with unforgiving - no stun from here ( tho you can use both together with traitswap during mark).permastealth DE will mostly use oneshot with huge tells in form of a DJ, while the type of attack you described with a dazing mark and then instant burst with stun is from DE builds that do not focus on stealth. thats like if i said a full minstrel support guard shouldnt be able to ontop of his 20k burning ticks hit me for 10k with his traps, you cant put together qualities of different builds and say it is OP, each individual build has its own strength and weaknesses. stealthy DE will have a hard time to kill anything that is not a solo nekro on open field without properly baiting and DE not so focused on stealth can be taken out alot easier. so you need to quickly see what kind of deadeye you are dealing with and well as a nekro you probably need to try to allways be near envoirement you can use but you will be at a disadvantage, like the deadeye will have some reflect and bodyblock issues in a zerg fight as well as many other issues, cant be top tier in every encounter.I didn’t describe dazing mark or anything just said that most people I talk to about DE only seem to know of the permanent stealth types that stalk you so you end up just running from the area. Which is why most people I know don’t play it, they also generally despise stealth camping so that’s another reason.Personally I tried it a long time ago trying to pick people off in a zerg before thinking eff this reflects everywhere, threw on the DP and violated a scourge before getting 13 torment on me for being near it. Doesn’t help that SD and DP give you more kills much faster than DE.the thread opener posted about perma stealth thieves with dazing mark followed by an instant kill without tell etc, thats why i asked about why we dont see more of those.i do know the downsides of a stealthy DE but i asked the question so the thread opener might realize he is talking about 2 builds in 1. as you answered i just wanted you to look at what was posted before and then did some more explaination mainly aimed at the thread opener or other confused players.'more kills much faster' is probably the main reason few people play stealthy deadeye and being totally garbage in group fights. but being extremely annoying with lethal potential makes people quickly call it OP.my personal reason to play it is probably easiest describes as i am a ppt hero that loves to run around solo so DE is the most efficent choice i could make and the more i play it the more i enjoy it. if i recall right i am matched against you again this week soo - see you out there :D Oh nice, you must be on Vabbi now, looking forward to “seeing” you around. I dunno what I’ll be playing though, might be some support FB so others can play necro without getting destroyed too easily but I’ll give you a wave if I see you or an instagib if on mes :tongue: hmm thought you are on another server my bad, i do have an account on vabbi but i rarely play that one :S @Aeolus.3615 said:@Nuka Cola.8520 said:The fact that perma stealth is still possible almost six years after launch shows how much this dev cares about the balance in each particular game mode they offer in their game.I dont mind with perma stealth, but thieves should knock out of stealth if they got damage, issue is code wise, some skill due the nature of tab targetting will follow trough thief stealth, like LB Rangers skill 2 and others alike.you do realize how stupid that is i hope? that is like using an evade skill should stop evading after 1. evaded hit, blocks should allways cancel after 1 hit, immunities / invuln should be over after 1 hit. permastealth builds usually got relative low mobility/evade uptime compared to other thief builds as they would lack lethal damage otherwise, while mobility and evade will negate damage 100% , you still get hit by quite alot in stealth and alot of thieves i kill die while in stealth. in a duel stealth is already the weakest type of defense a thief has, it only grants an advantage in an open fight like in roaming/ganking as you can suprise your opponents with it.you cannot accomplish anything in this game while remaining in stealth, therefor there is just very few instances where it is of use to play stealth heavy. for instance for stealth capping towers/keeps but you cannot win a fight without getting visible (there is still ways to build for ghost thief but if you die to that , you got way bigger issues than thief).Ive seen players getting bursted down in 2-3 seconds w/o the thief being revealed, and only be visible for me and other players in that area after down that player, stealth needs to be looked at, it is still in beta state lol... this actually happened last week, maybe because there was a really scourge spamblob nearby and thief getting out of stealth remain culled from being rendered in players screens.Like i said it would be a issue, for code reasons, reasons like u pointed, and ive actually downed invisible thiefs alone with 1 or 2 hits, but that does not mean stealth should keep working in a strange way like it is working.sure stealth could be changed but making proposals that will just make stealth useless and pretty much non existent in any real combat situation wont get us there.Oh.. ofc that other stuff on stealth would have to change... i was just theorycrafting in possible ways to make stealth more normalized into the class(i didnt wanted to go in depth), but offc other stuff would have to change as well.Still theres alot stuff code wise that m8 be a extreme burden to fix, that it better to leave it borked up lol...So... maybe in future we can see a class that can sense stealthed units :bleep_bloop: and see shadows, like a somewhat transparent stealth unit. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napo.1230 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @Kaiser.9873 said:@Napo.1230 said:Its hard for me to feel any sympathy sorry haha I literally quit playing revenant because of Necro (scourge to be exact) and how broken it is to melee with them. Rev is my all time favourite but it's paper atm so kitten you haha.Deadeyes cause me no problem on most classes I find them so predictable. My tips are listen for audio ques, abuse terrain and look for black powder and the very bright laser beam.The ones that trouble me are the ones who don't hide in stealth but use d/p to build malice and waste dodges.So a class that hits like a sledgehammer from 1200 range is afraid of Scourge?Sorry I should have stated I'm not on about blob hammer rev. But small scale melee rev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUmad.7645 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @ToPNoP.2493 said:@EUmad.7645 said:@Warkind.6745 said:I wouldn't mind stealth getting taken down a notch as long as the defensive and offensive capabilities of the classes reliant on them (mesmer/thief) got tuned up a bit in return. Stealth is a decent mechanic, but I get the feeling it's too difficult to implement in a way that doesn't encourage stack and burst to get the most out of it.That said, I hardly see any deadeyes in WvW because it's such a vulnerable spec. Any Necro that's been in WvW for a significant period of time should be pretty familiar with fighting/avoiding ranged builds.There is a big difference between thief and mesmer . For thief stealth is much more important as mechanic than for mesmer. Mesmer has far less access to stealth and usually, with power gs chrono/mirage, you can use the first attack chain from stealth but if you don't kill you can be in trouble .Thief on the other side has much more access to stealth than mesmer ,but mesmer has much more active defense and sustain . I think in any case stealth as a major thread on thief, less on mesmer .yesterday a team of 5 i was in hit on a mirage for 1 minute 40 seconds before his defenses ran out. He had a few team mates at first, but i also targeted him first. He was the last to die, but it took forever to get through stealth, diamond skin, and blur. Mesmer may not have this much, but mirage is almost immortal in small group game play. But as for the rest of this forum post, maybe necro needs some love, not scourge haha, necro. if i am not wrong mesmer has not diamond skin... it is an ele trait i think .... Power mesmer is not immortal . IF he does not finish you with is gs burst he has a bad day .... condi boom spam with staff instead is really really hard to kill ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurogane.9681 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 You just met a hard counter for your build as a necro. If a good DE is build together with Shadow Arts (Shadow's Rejuvenation, Shadow's Embrace) and Trickery (Trickster), your chance of winning is very slim to none. You can burst conditions on him once you see him but the DE got a lot of cleanse (Withdraw, Roll for Initiative and cleanse while on stealth) and proceed to kill you with ease knowing all your burst skill are on cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 IIRC when the game was being developed devs said stealth was going to be short term and long CDS, so I don't know what went through their heads to do a 180 spin.Like someone said stealth always has a drawback, most common one (at least in the games I've played) is walking at half speed, in GW2 there's no drawback whatsoever.That being said, DE's are easy to kill, well except for low mobility melee.To the one putting mes in the same bag (permastealth) mes can't do it, even engies/rangers can stack as much stealth as mes common builds).I'd remove stealth entirely from this game and replace it with shadowsteps (like in GW1 there was no stealth, only shadowstep/teleports). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicName.4523 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Rock is too hard. Paper is fine.Fond regards,Scissors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @EpicName.4523 said:Rock is too hard. Paper is fine.Fond regards,ScissorsCould you help us sort out who's rock paper scissors here? Guardian, Revenant, Warrior, Enginner, Ranger, Thief, Elementalist, Mesmer, Necromancer, Dragonhunter, Herald, Berserker, Scrapper, Druid, Daredevil, Tempest, Chronomancer, Reaper, Firebrand, Renegade, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage, Scourge. :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicName.4523 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @XenesisII.1540 said:@EpicName.4523 said:Rock is too hard. Paper is fine.Fond regards,ScissorsCould you help us sort out who's rock paper scissors here? Guardian, Revenant, Warrior, Enginner, Ranger, Thief, Elementalist, Mesmer, Necromancer, Dragonhunter, Herald, Berserker, Scrapper, Druid, Daredevil, Tempest, Chronomancer, Reaper, Firebrand, Renegade, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Deadeye, Weaver, Mirage, Scourge. :tongue: I play scourge. I have good advantage over most professions that try to melee me when properly supported. I am scissors.Those classes that I can own are balanced because I destroy them. They are paper.That long ranged glass cannon that I just cannot catch is rock. It owns me just like I own most enemies in melee. Therefore it is too strong and should be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musty.3148 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 You should know what classes are your antithesis. You should know which you can kill quickly. And you should further know which will be a pretty even fight. Then pick your battles and play well, escape from ones you can't beat, attack the ones you can own, and decide on the others. It's not friggin' hard.And crying about a class like DE as a Scourge is just freaking ridiculous... I'm embarrassed for you as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @"Musty.3148" said:You should know what classes are your antithesis. You should know which you can kill quickly. And you should further know which will be a pretty even fight. Then pick your battles and play well, escape from ones you can't beat, attack the ones you can own, and decide on the others. It's not friggin' hard.And crying about a class like DE as a Scourge is just freaking ridiculous... I'm embarrassed for you as a player.I mean, a Scourge can't "pick" to, or not to fight a thief spec if the thief has decided to fight the scourge.Tack DE range in there and, as I said, pretty much the biggest hard-counter in the game. The necro can't kill the thief, nor can they run away from it.Lack of mobility is the reason I never solo roam on a necro. Which is a real shame.~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musty.3148 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 @Kovu.7560 said:@"Musty.3148" said:You should know what classes are your antithesis. You should know which you can kill quickly. And you should further know which will be a pretty even fight. Then pick your battles and play well, escape from ones you can't beat, attack the ones you can own, and decide on the others. It's not friggin' hard.And crying about a class like DE as a Scourge is just freaking ridiculous... I'm embarrassed for you as a player.I mean, a Scourge can't "pick" to, or not to fight a thief spec if the thief has decided to fight the scourge.Tack DE range in there and, as I said, pretty much the biggest hard-counter in the game. The necro can't kill the thief, nor can they run away from it.Lack of mobility is the reason I never solo roam on a necro. Which is a real shame.~ KovuA scourge in a tanky solo setup (which they ALL are) can get to a keep/los/get to friends. Happens daily. I agree in general, but like I said. "play well". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining One.1635 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I'm curious as to what class/build counters DE as effectively as DE counters Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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