Tyson.5160 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 @maddoctor.2738 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:No effort and an insane amount of time, isn't that what the suggestion about adding Legendary Armor in other modes is all about?No, the main point was always "be able to find a mode you like where you could get it". Replacing effort/skill with time was always an argument, and getting them by farming in WVW and PVP fits this requirement.Now you don't even want that, honestly news to me.Nah, I would still say time gate it. I have seen very few people with the PVP Legendary armor probably because they don't like the mode and it’s too much of a time investment for them especially if you lose every match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 @Tyson.5160 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@Astralporing.1957 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:No effort and an insane amount of time, isn't that what the suggestion about adding Legendary Armor in other modes is all about?No, the main point was always "be able to find a mode you like where you could get it". Replacing effort/skill with time was always an argument, and getting them by farming in WVW and PVP fits this requirement.Now you don't even want that, honestly news to me.Nah, I would still say time gate it. I have seen very few people with the PVP Legendary armor probably because they don't like the mode and it’s too much of a time investment for them especially if you lose every match.How can you even tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Guess you can’t really. I haven’t seen many people throw up the PvP set in chat. I’ve seen lots of WvW legendary sets and the occasional Envoy set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I might throw up a poll on the main discussion page as I’m a bit curious on the approximate numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualkenny.9817 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just wanna clarify why I personally ask for no (real) rewards:i) 20man training run meant more for getting a feel of the mechanics, and for volunteer raid trainers to be more effective in terms of beneficiaries/timespent (p.s. I would also have liked to see 10-20man no reward frac option)ii) this is only meant for orientation and practice, and like someone else mentioned elsewhere, that you can practice on ANY bossiii) nothing else should be changed, because if more effort was needed, Anet is far more unlikely to consider thisiv) meant to discourage non-serious players from joining, because certain types would NOT join if there were no rewards. The learning experience is the rewardv) was never meant to be repeatable content, but only as a no-stakes conducive learning environmentvi) I have no problem with it getting guild-missions-level reward, which no one would object tovii) no rewards, to circumvent the most common objection from raiders, that this is like some easy route to same rewards.Free individual respawn would be good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 @casualkenny.9817 said:Just wanna clarify why I personally ask for no (real) rewards:i) 20man training run meant more for getting a feel of the mechanics, and for volunteer raid trainers to be more effective in terms of beneficiaries/timespent (p.s. I would also have liked to see 10-20man no reward frac option)ii) this is only meant for orientation and practice, and like someone else mentioned elsewhere, that you can practice on ANY bossiii) nothing else should be changed, because if more effort was needed, Anet is far more unlikely to consider thisiv) meant to discourage non-serious players from joining, because certain types would NOT join if there were no rewards. The learning experience is the rewardv) was never meant to be repeatable content, but only as a no-stakes conducive learning environmentvi) I have no problem with it getting guild-missions-level reward, which no one would object tovii) no rewards, to circumvent the most common objection from raiders, that this is like some easy route to same rewards.Free individual respawn would be good too. Seems like a good idea to me. I think a lot of people would have fun with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Even if they made this a weekend or week long event and not something that was permanent, would be interesting, much like the WvW no down state. Just to drum up some interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogri.1935 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Could just make a different mode accessible to a 50 man squad since a 50 man squad system already exists. So there's the option to run UP TO 50 people. It would be interesting because as some others have said above, some mechanics are worse with more people, so some commanders would want to bring less people.It would be so funny to see a 50 man squad being insta wiped by KC orange circle explosion, or better yet, one lucky kitten somehow surviving.Also as for rewards, 2 blues and 1 green, anyone? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Godrik.5841 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 This would he a good way to practice the boss. Rewards should be shit tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @ProtoGunner.4953 said:@Miellyn.6847 said:@ProtoGunner.4953 said:We definitely need more flexibility in raids. Compared to WoW the raids here are ridiculous. There is just one single mode... in WoW there are two versions 10 and 25 man. And both have like 5 different difficulties: LFR, flexible, normal, heroic, mythic or so.Nope. There are 4 versions.LFR 25 players.Normal 10-30 players.Heroic 10-30 players.Mythic 20 players.Normal mode in GW2 is around normal in WoW which is a pretty good baseline difficulty.Also GW2 is not raid focused. The ressources that go into raids in WoW are invested in open world in GW2. Do you want GW2 to be raid focused?I played it til Pandaria. Also, the open world content in WoW was huge as well, not smaller like in GW2. Check out PoF on release: 5 maps, while Panda had like 6-8 maps AND two raids AND 5 dungeons. It just doesn't fit. Well they are bigger of course and you pay monthly.Yes and WoW open world becomes useless until they cycle in a new island or some bullshit item grind in between item level increases between raid wings.90% of WoWs open world are dead once you level past them which was only now slightly remedied when Blizzard copied the scaling system used in GW2.Blizzard designs their content as temporary use and then throw away, same as all the gear rewards. GW2 does not, huge difference.There is literally people right now in WoW grinding away to get high item level items on the last content even though in less than 2 months the next expansion is going to reset all gear progress. That's not possible in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoGunner.4953 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@ProtoGunner.4953 said:@Miellyn.6847 said:@ProtoGunner.4953 said:We definitely need more flexibility in raids. Compared to WoW the raids here are ridiculous. There is just one single mode... in WoW there are two versions 10 and 25 man. And both have like 5 different difficulties: LFR, flexible, normal, heroic, mythic or so.Nope. There are 4 versions.LFR 25 players.Normal 10-30 players.Heroic 10-30 players.Mythic 20 players.Normal mode in GW2 is around normal in WoW which is a pretty good baseline difficulty.Also GW2 is not raid focused. The ressources that go into raids in WoW are invested in open world in GW2. Do you want GW2 to be raid focused?I played it til Pandaria. Also, the open world content in WoW was huge as well, not smaller like in GW2. Check out PoF on release: 5 maps, while Panda had like 6-8 maps AND two raids AND 5 dungeons. It just doesn't fit. Well they are bigger of course and you pay monthly.Yes and WoW open world becomes useless until they cycle in a new island or some kitten item grind in between item level increases between raid wings.90% of WoWs open world are dead once you level past them which was only now slightly remedied when Blizzard copied the scaling system used in GW2.Blizzard designs their content as temporary use and then throw away, same as all the gear rewards. GW2 does not, huge difference.There is literally people right now in WoW grinding away to get high item level items on the last content even though in less than 2 months the next expansion is going to reset all gear progress. That's not possible in GW2.This is unfair: WoW has reputation farming in every map with different factions: some with great rewards like cool in game mounts etc. Also, the same goes fro GW2 maps: they are shallow once you did all the achievements. Actually they are even more shallow, since you don't have to do the map at all. You simply can miss it out, unless you want achievement or gold grind. Yes, you can come back with your max char to grind shallow content again if you want. This is especially true for PoF, you can do the HoT metas again and again, but is this fun? It's okay I think. I do them now again for Amalgamated Gemstones to make my 7th or 8th legendary (not sure), but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 @ProtoGunner.4953 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@ProtoGunner.4953 said:@Miellyn.6847 said:@ProtoGunner.4953 said:We definitely need more flexibility in raids. Compared to WoW the raids here are ridiculous. There is just one single mode... in WoW there are two versions 10 and 25 man. And both have like 5 different difficulties: LFR, flexible, normal, heroic, mythic or so.Nope. There are 4 versions.LFR 25 players.Normal 10-30 players.Heroic 10-30 players.Mythic 20 players.Normal mode in GW2 is around normal in WoW which is a pretty good baseline difficulty.Also GW2 is not raid focused. The ressources that go into raids in WoW are invested in open world in GW2. Do you want GW2 to be raid focused?I played it til Pandaria. Also, the open world content in WoW was huge as well, not smaller like in GW2. Check out PoF on release: 5 maps, while Panda had like 6-8 maps AND two raids AND 5 dungeons. It just doesn't fit. Well they are bigger of course and you pay monthly.Yes and WoW open world becomes useless until they cycle in a new island or some kitten item grind in between item level increases between raid wings.90% of WoWs open world are dead once you level past them which was only now slightly remedied when Blizzard copied the scaling system used in GW2.Blizzard designs their content as temporary use and then throw away, same as all the gear rewards. GW2 does not, huge difference.There is literally people right now in WoW grinding away to get high item level items on the last content even though in less than 2 months the next expansion is going to reset all gear progress. That's not possible in GW2.This is unfair: WoW has reputation farming in every map with different factions: some with great rewards like cool in game mounts etc. Also, the same goes fro GW2 maps: they are shallow once you did all the achievements. Actually they are even more shallow, since you don't have to do the map at all. You simply can miss it out, unless you want achievement or gold grind. Yes, you can come back with your max char to grind shallow content again if you want. This is especially true for PoF, you can do the HoT metas again and again, but is this fun? It's okay I think. I do them now again for Amalgamated Gemstones to make my 7th or 8th legendary (not sure), but that's it.I was not talking about busywork. Both games have that.I was literally talking about maps having zero value in WoW once you out level them.You personally might not enjoy GW2 maps, but others do. I still enjoy going to Silverwastes for an occasional Vinewrath, or Auric Basin for an Octovine or different world bosses. Guild Wars 2 endgame revolves around amassing gold and resources for cosmetic upgrades which do not devalue. Arenanet gives you different ways to approach this goal.WoWs endgame revolves around its gear treadmill (and cosmetics) which gets reset every couple of weeks.I wasn't judging which you should enjoy more. I was pointing out that those 2 different approaches require a different amount of balance for their open world design. In GW2s case keeping a map balanced and interesting is far more important than in WoWs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmoon.7986 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 20 bad players will still wipe on almost every encounter.Vg, players would not split, be unable to kill the 3 anomalies because thet cant break bars, and slowly die to the pulse damage aurasGors, if they dont die to break bars, the 20 eggs will surely caught most of the team causing a wipe.Sab, cannons, relying on someone else throw you to the cannon will not happen.Sloth. Slub will die so fast.Math, sacrifice will either not be broken or dps downed. Last phase with 20 circle will cover the room.Kc, illlusions would not be killed on kc, 20 circles wiping everyone, people collecting the wrong color orbs.Xera, 10 people fighting over pushing orbs, the group will never get past prephase.Carn, agony circles, having to learn to dodge.Warden, duo phase would be impossible, human would end up everywhere but on top of the warden. And if by some miracle he landed 5 people would chase hime down and die in the spikes.Diemos. Black circles.....And all for no rewards. Why not just learn the encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 @Shadowmoon.7986 said:20 bad players will still wipe on almost every encounter.Vg, players would not split, be unable to kill the 3 anomalies because thet cant break bars, and slowly die to the pulse damage aurasGors, if they dont die to break bars, the 20 eggs will surely caught most of the team causing a wipe.Sab, cannons, relying on someone else throw you to the cannon will not happen.Sloth. Slub will die so fast.Math, sacrifice will either not be broken or dps downed. Last phase with 20 circle will cover the room.Kc, illlusions would not be killed on kc, 20 circles wiping everyone, people collecting the wrong color orbs.Xera, 10 people fighting over pushing orbs, the group will never get past prephase.Carn, agony circles, having to learn to dodge.Warden, duo phase would be impossible, human would end up everywhere but on top of the warden. And if by some miracle he landed 5 people would chase hime down and die in the spikes.Diemos. Black circles.....And all for no rewards. Why not just learn the encounters.Because it would be a fun change of pace for a weekend or weekly event, with low effort on the devs end. Would also drum up further interest in the mode like the zero down state WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmoon.7986 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 @Tyson.5160 said:Because it would be a fun change of pace for a weekend or weekly event, with low effort on the devs end. Would also drum up further interest in the mode like the zero down state WvW.No down state had double the rewards, this idea has no rewards. Again just learn the encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 @Shadowmoon.7986 said:@Tyson.5160 said:Because it would be a fun change of pace for a weekend or weekly event, with low effort on the devs end. Would also drum up further interest in the mode like the zero down state WvW.No down state had double the rewards, this idea has no rewards. Again just learn the encounters.Does little harm for a 20 man weekend event, doesn’t hurt anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaxares.5419 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 20 man raids might be a bit excessive (mostly because we might start to see performance issues as we begin to approach world boss-levels of particle effects), but 15 man raids? I think this might actually be worth considering. With an additional 5 people, DPS checks would be less of an issue as we begin to approach the stage where sheer numbers can make up for missed rotations or less-than-meta builds, but it would still be within the range where mechanics play a crucial role in deciding whether or not encounters are victorious. (As compared to world bosses or meta events where I often see mechanics being overcome by sheer weight of numbers; the boss simply cannot kill that many players fast enough before their combined total DPS kills it.)Ultimately, I think the best thing for the longevity of raids going forward is to get them to a state where dungeons are now in terms of difficulty; they can still seem insurmountable if you're going in blind and are not used to the kind of damage they can deal out, but if you have just one or two good players who can handle the mechanics and explain what to do, chances are good you can carry a party of newbies through it. Likewise, I think it would be a good state for raids (in terms of increasing player base accessibility and participation rates) if you have 5-8 experienced veterans who can do the heavy lifting, while the rest of the squad can be relative newcomers who just need to be able to follow instructions, do moderate amounts of DPS (their numbers will make up the difference), and know about about the boss's mechanics to not die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMorgul.9845 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 why not some raid tier? like fractals, tier 1 less reward tier 4 more reward is the best way to have a training course without stupid training pugs that miserably fails so all can get the experience, becouse not all are pro players and most people like in tier 4 get easily anger getting out and laming on people who don't do the right job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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