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An Eye on the Deadeye

Gaile Gray.6029

By Gaile Gray.6029
in Thief

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Arlowslol.1974

Arlowslol.1974

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:Hello anet, can you let malice generate over time as well as generated like it currently is at same time? If not maybe consider adding a malice autogain somewhere in the traits like in payback [because that trait is lacking], and make payback 20%++ or something that would make it at least more interesting to consider from the other 2 options. I still find resetting silent scope with kneeling very disjointed, if not for the fact that the act of kneeling/standing can be unreliable especially when we are doing a more frantic in&out playstyle
[i am sure people with stellar pings aren't going to have much issue]
. Kneeling rifle 4 is also an issue because of this, with the smoke screen either not being put down, or being put down double [not that the ini cost is much of an issue], but it's just messy and rather not smooth. I'd settle for rifle4 kneel making 2 randomly placed deadeyes kneeling to confuse enemies in place of the smoke screen with a reasonable ini cost.

NONONONONO, never change that malice generate overtime and malice should never generate whlie using a healing . just make auto attack to the mark generate 1 malice per second, no more "Mark and stealth untill 7 malice" that fuxking stealth camp need to go!!!!!!

stealth camp will allways be possible. you can aswell wait till stealth runs out, use a skill towards end and go into stealth right after. so your visible for a split second for faster malice gain.

the core problem of stealth camp is the SA trait line. I have said this for years. SA should encourage player to in-and-out from stealth, not stay in stealth for years. this is why no one use SA in PVP/PVE but every one use it in WVW.

even now,I still think the pre-hot DA/SA/TR d/p is an cancer build that camp stealth and make my s/d nausea

now is the issue the amount of stealth or the burst from it - i am confused.first you said you have an issue with camping till m7, now an issue with SA tho SA mainly gives sustain.i for instance play now a bit around with an s/d + rifle build utilizing sa/tr/de in WvW, i can permastealth on rifle if i want to and i want to keep this feature to avoid unwinnable fights like outnumbered fights with one or multiple supporters in the opposing group. however i can no longer oneshot as i gave up too many good traits and stats to be able to fight visibly with s/d. therefor i want the option to stealth camp in order to avoid a fight, i dont care for being able to oneshot out of it or not.

SA promotes camping over in and out as many of the good traits are linar during stealth and not on entering / leaving. changing this to buff entering/leaving stealth will also make stealth openings out of camping safer. so if you still prefer to camp you will. but that is only an issue if stealth openings are going to kill. therefor the only thing that needs to be adressed is malice gain for MBackstab. replacing MI with for example unblockable during reveal trait, would be a great buff for more agressive playstyles.

but there will still be some to complain that a thief used 4 times CnD, allways precast when stealth runs out and then MBackstab GG. there will allways be a way to kill the opponent in a highly annoying way, if you wish to. waiting for m7 to build up with MI, requires alot of patience many people dont have so i dont think this will be a big issue, most people you can just kill with spammin AA or random skills so its a bit inefficient to wait 2 mins to even try.

because SA give the ability to easy camping stealth, and with SA you can easy out sustain other thief build that dont use SA, and reset fight whenever you want.

And without the PVP point, it become more cancer in WVW.

yes you have more sustain with SA but you have more pressure if you do not run SA. resetting fights can be done aswell with mobility. some bunker builds can even outheal most builds on their way to the next safe spot.SA makes thieves survive, it doesnt make them kill anything. but in this game you have to kill, there is no last man standing mode.

no, in dueling and wvw, not get killed means you are not lose. survive untill your enemy dead .

cancer are not just SA, minstrel ,dire and trailblazer are the same

but what is killing you? them not dying or your going to offensive to try and force their death? i mean you could probably stall the fight easily.

As a S/D thief , I cant.

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bq pd.2148

bq pd.2148

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@Arlowslol.1974 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:Hello anet, can you let malice generate over time as well as generated like it currently is at same time? If not maybe consider adding a malice autogain somewhere in the traits like in payback [because that trait is lacking], and make payback 20%++ or something that would make it at least more interesting to consider from the other 2 options. I still find resetting silent scope with kneeling very disjointed, if not for the fact that the act of kneeling/standing can be unreliable especially when we are doing a more frantic in&out playstyle
[i am sure people with stellar pings aren't going to have much issue]
. Kneeling rifle 4 is also an issue because of this, with the smoke screen either not being put down, or being put down double [not that the ini cost is much of an issue], but it's just messy and rather not smooth. I'd settle for rifle4 kneel making 2 randomly placed deadeyes kneeling to confuse enemies in place of the smoke screen with a reasonable ini cost.

NONONONONO, never change that malice generate overtime and malice should never generate whlie using a healing . just make auto attack to the mark generate 1 malice per second, no more "Mark and stealth untill 7 malice" that fuxking stealth camp need to go!!!!!!

stealth camp will allways be possible. you can aswell wait till stealth runs out, use a skill towards end and go into stealth right after. so your visible for a split second for faster malice gain.

the core problem of stealth camp is the SA trait line. I have said this for years. SA should encourage player to in-and-out from stealth, not stay in stealth for years. this is why no one use SA in PVP/PVE but every one use it in WVW.

even now,I still think the pre-hot DA/SA/TR d/p is an cancer build that camp stealth and make my s/d nausea

now is the issue the amount of stealth or the burst from it - i am confused.first you said you have an issue with camping till m7, now an issue with SA tho SA mainly gives sustain.i for instance play now a bit around with an s/d + rifle build utilizing sa/tr/de in WvW, i can permastealth on rifle if i want to and i want to keep this feature to avoid unwinnable fights like outnumbered fights with one or multiple supporters in the opposing group. however i can no longer oneshot as i gave up too many good traits and stats to be able to fight visibly with s/d. therefor i want the option to stealth camp in order to avoid a fight, i dont care for being able to oneshot out of it or not.

SA promotes camping over in and out as many of the good traits are linar during stealth and not on entering / leaving. changing this to buff entering/leaving stealth will also make stealth openings out of camping safer. so if you still prefer to camp you will. but that is only an issue if stealth openings are going to kill. therefor the only thing that needs to be adressed is malice gain for MBackstab. replacing MI with for example unblockable during reveal trait, would be a great buff for more agressive playstyles.

but there will still be some to complain that a thief used 4 times CnD, allways precast when stealth runs out and then MBackstab GG. there will allways be a way to kill the opponent in a highly annoying way, if you wish to. waiting for m7 to build up with MI, requires alot of patience many people dont have so i dont think this will be a big issue, most people you can just kill with spammin AA or random skills so its a bit inefficient to wait 2 mins to even try.

because SA give the ability to easy camping stealth, and with SA you can easy out sustain other thief build that dont use SA, and reset fight whenever you want.

And without the PVP point, it become more cancer in WVW.

yes you have more sustain with SA but you have more pressure if you do not run SA. resetting fights can be done aswell with mobility. some bunker builds can even outheal most builds on their way to the next safe spot.SA makes thieves survive, it doesnt make them kill anything. but in this game you have to kill, there is no last man standing mode.

no, in dueling and wvw, not get killed means you are not lose. survive untill your enemy dead .

cancer are not just SA, minstrel ,dire and trailblazer are the same

but what is killing you? them not dying or your going to offensive to try and force their death? i mean you could probably stall the fight easily.

As a S/D thief , I cant.

most SA builds use d/p. d/p wins against s/d with or without SA, how do you know it is because of SA that you lose?

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Arlowslol.1974

Arlowslol.1974

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@MUDse.7623 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:Hello anet, can you let malice generate over time as well as generated like it currently is at same time? If not maybe consider adding a malice autogain somewhere in the traits like in payback [because that trait is lacking], and make payback 20%++ or something that would make it at least more interesting to consider from the other 2 options. I still find resetting silent scope with kneeling very disjointed, if not for the fact that the act of kneeling/standing can be unreliable especially when we are doing a more frantic in&out playstyle
[i am sure people with stellar pings aren't going to have much issue]
. Kneeling rifle 4 is also an issue because of this, with the smoke screen either not being put down, or being put down double [not that the ini cost is much of an issue], but it's just messy and rather not smooth. I'd settle for rifle4 kneel making 2 randomly placed deadeyes kneeling to confuse enemies in place of the smoke screen with a reasonable ini cost.

NONONONONO, never change that malice generate overtime and malice should never generate whlie using a healing . just make auto attack to the mark generate 1 malice per second, no more "Mark and stealth untill 7 malice" that fuxking stealth camp need to go!!!!!!

stealth camp will allways be possible. you can aswell wait till stealth runs out, use a skill towards end and go into stealth right after. so your visible for a split second for faster malice gain.

the core problem of stealth camp is the SA trait line. I have said this for years. SA should encourage player to in-and-out from stealth, not stay in stealth for years. this is why no one use SA in PVP/PVE but every one use it in WVW.

even now,I still think the pre-hot DA/SA/TR d/p is an cancer build that camp stealth and make my s/d nausea

now is the issue the amount of stealth or the burst from it - i am confused.first you said you have an issue with camping till m7, now an issue with SA tho SA mainly gives sustain.i for instance play now a bit around with an s/d + rifle build utilizing sa/tr/de in WvW, i can permastealth on rifle if i want to and i want to keep this feature to avoid unwinnable fights like outnumbered fights with one or multiple supporters in the opposing group. however i can no longer oneshot as i gave up too many good traits and stats to be able to fight visibly with s/d. therefor i want the option to stealth camp in order to avoid a fight, i dont care for being able to oneshot out of it or not.

SA promotes camping over in and out as many of the good traits are linar during stealth and not on entering / leaving. changing this to buff entering/leaving stealth will also make stealth openings out of camping safer. so if you still prefer to camp you will. but that is only an issue if stealth openings are going to kill. therefor the only thing that needs to be adressed is malice gain for MBackstab. replacing MI with for example unblockable during reveal trait, would be a great buff for more agressive playstyles.

but there will still be some to complain that a thief used 4 times CnD, allways precast when stealth runs out and then MBackstab GG. there will allways be a way to kill the opponent in a highly annoying way, if you wish to. waiting for m7 to build up with MI, requires alot of patience many people dont have so i dont think this will be a big issue, most people you can just kill with spammin AA or random skills so its a bit inefficient to wait 2 mins to even try.

because SA give the ability to easy camping stealth, and with SA you can easy out sustain other thief build that dont use SA, and reset fight whenever you want.

And without the PVP point, it become more cancer in WVW.

yes you have more sustain with SA but you have more pressure if you do not run SA. resetting fights can be done aswell with mobility. some bunker builds can even outheal most builds on their way to the next safe spot.SA makes thieves survive, it doesnt make them kill anything. but in this game you have to kill, there is no last man standing mode.

no, in dueling and wvw, not get killed means you are not lose. survive untill your enemy dead .

cancer are not just SA, minstrel ,dire and trailblazer are the same

but what is killing you? them not dying or your going to offensive to try and force their death? i mean you could probably stall the fight easily.

As a S/D thief , I cant.

most SA builds use d/p. d/p wins against s/d with or without SA, how do you know it is because of SA that you lose?

I know D/P win S/D now. but before HOT, D/P and S/D have a 50:50 fight without SA, but use SA then D/P wins. after HOT ,D/P is hardcounter S/D without SA

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BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

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@Arlowslol.1974 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:Hello anet, can you let malice generate over time as well as generated like it currently is at same time? If not maybe consider adding a malice autogain somewhere in the traits like in payback [because that trait is lacking], and make payback 20%++ or something that would make it at least more interesting to consider from the other 2 options. I still find resetting silent scope with kneeling very disjointed, if not for the fact that the act of kneeling/standing can be unreliable especially when we are doing a more frantic in&out playstyle
[i am sure people with stellar pings aren't going to have much issue]
. Kneeling rifle 4 is also an issue because of this, with the smoke screen either not being put down, or being put down double [not that the ini cost is much of an issue], but it's just messy and rather not smooth. I'd settle for rifle4 kneel making 2 randomly placed deadeyes kneeling to confuse enemies in place of the smoke screen with a reasonable ini cost.

NONONONONO, never change that malice generate overtime and malice should never generate whlie using a healing . just make auto attack to the mark generate 1 malice per second, no more "Mark and stealth untill 7 malice" that fuxking stealth camp need to go!!!!!!

stealth camp will allways be possible. you can aswell wait till stealth runs out, use a skill towards end and go into stealth right after. so your visible for a split second for faster malice gain.

the core problem of stealth camp is the SA trait line. I have said this for years. SA should encourage player to in-and-out from stealth, not stay in stealth for years. this is why no one use SA in PVP/PVE but every one use it in WVW.

even now,I still think the pre-hot DA/SA/TR d/p is an cancer build that camp stealth and make my s/d nausea

now is the issue the amount of stealth or the burst from it - i am confused.first you said you have an issue with camping till m7, now an issue with SA tho SA mainly gives sustain.i for instance play now a bit around with an s/d + rifle build utilizing sa/tr/de in WvW, i can permastealth on rifle if i want to and i want to keep this feature to avoid unwinnable fights like outnumbered fights with one or multiple supporters in the opposing group. however i can no longer oneshot as i gave up too many good traits and stats to be able to fight visibly with s/d. therefor i want the option to stealth camp in order to avoid a fight, i dont care for being able to oneshot out of it or not.

SA promotes camping over in and out as many of the good traits are linar during stealth and not on entering / leaving. changing this to buff entering/leaving stealth will also make stealth openings out of camping safer. so if you still prefer to camp you will. but that is only an issue if stealth openings are going to kill. therefor the only thing that needs to be adressed is malice gain for MBackstab. replacing MI with for example unblockable during reveal trait, would be a great buff for more agressive playstyles.

but there will still be some to complain that a thief used 4 times CnD, allways precast when stealth runs out and then MBackstab GG. there will allways be a way to kill the opponent in a highly annoying way, if you wish to. waiting for m7 to build up with MI, requires alot of patience many people dont have so i dont think this will be a big issue, most people you can just kill with spammin AA or random skills so its a bit inefficient to wait 2 mins to even try.

because SA give the ability to easy camping stealth, and with SA you can easy out sustain other thief build that dont use SA, and reset fight whenever you want.

And without the PVP point, it become more cancer in WVW.

yes you have more sustain with SA but you have more pressure if you do not run SA. resetting fights can be done aswell with mobility. some bunker builds can even outheal most builds on their way to the next safe spot.SA makes thieves survive, it doesnt make them kill anything. but in this game you have to kill, there is no last man standing mode.

no, in dueling and wvw, not get killed means you are not lose. survive untill your enemy dead .

cancer are not just SA, minstrel ,dire and trailblazer are the same

but what is killing you? them not dying or your going to offensive to try and force their death? i mean you could probably stall the fight easily.

As a S/D thief , I cant.

most SA builds use d/p. d/p wins against s/d with or without SA, how do you know it is because of SA that you lose?

I know D/P win S/D now. but before HOT, D/P and S/D have a 50:50 fight without SA, but use SA then D/P wins. after HOT ,D/P is hardcounter S/D without SA

D/P has hard countered S/D since the beginning of the game and still does without even using SA...

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babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

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@Arlowslol.1974 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:Hello anet, can you let malice generate over time as well as generated like it currently is at same time? If not maybe consider adding a malice autogain somewhere in the traits like in payback [because that trait is lacking], and make payback 20%++ or something that would make it at least more interesting to consider from the other 2 options. I still find resetting silent scope with kneeling very disjointed, if not for the fact that the act of kneeling/standing can be unreliable especially when we are doing a more frantic in&out playstyle
[i am sure people with stellar pings aren't going to have much issue]
. Kneeling rifle 4 is also an issue because of this, with the smoke screen either not being put down, or being put down double [not that the ini cost is much of an issue], but it's just messy and rather not smooth. I'd settle for rifle4 kneel making 2 randomly placed deadeyes kneeling to confuse enemies in place of the smoke screen with a reasonable ini cost.

NONONONONO, never change that malice generate overtime and malice should never generate whlie using a healing . just make auto attack to the mark generate 1 malice per second, no more "Mark and stealth untill 7 malice" that fuxking stealth camp need to go!!!!!!

stealth camp will allways be possible. you can aswell wait till stealth runs out, use a skill towards end and go into stealth right after. so your visible for a split second for faster malice gain.

the core problem of stealth camp is the SA trait line. I have said this for years. SA should encourage player to in-and-out from stealth, not stay in stealth for years. this is why no one use SA in PVP/PVE but every one use it in WVW.

even now,I still think the pre-hot DA/SA/TR d/p is an cancer build that camp stealth and make my s/d nausea

now is the issue the amount of stealth or the burst from it - i am confused.first you said you have an issue with camping till m7, now an issue with SA tho SA mainly gives sustain.i for instance play now a bit around with an s/d + rifle build utilizing sa/tr/de in WvW, i can permastealth on rifle if i want to and i want to keep this feature to avoid unwinnable fights like outnumbered fights with one or multiple supporters in the opposing group. however i can no longer oneshot as i gave up too many good traits and stats to be able to fight visibly with s/d. therefor i want the option to stealth camp in order to avoid a fight, i dont care for being able to oneshot out of it or not.

SA promotes camping over in and out as many of the good traits are linar during stealth and not on entering / leaving. changing this to buff entering/leaving stealth will also make stealth openings out of camping safer. so if you still prefer to camp you will. but that is only an issue if stealth openings are going to kill. therefor the only thing that needs to be adressed is malice gain for MBackstab. replacing MI with for example unblockable during reveal trait, would be a great buff for more agressive playstyles.

but there will still be some to complain that a thief used 4 times CnD, allways precast when stealth runs out and then MBackstab GG. there will allways be a way to kill the opponent in a highly annoying way, if you wish to. waiting for m7 to build up with MI, requires alot of patience many people dont have so i dont think this will be a big issue, most people you can just kill with spammin AA or random skills so its a bit inefficient to wait 2 mins to even try.

because SA give the ability to easy camping stealth, and with SA you can easy out sustain other thief build that dont use SA, and reset fight whenever you want.

And without the PVP point, it become more cancer in WVW.

yes you have more sustain with SA but you have more pressure if you do not run SA. resetting fights can be done aswell with mobility. some bunker builds can even outheal most builds on their way to the next safe spot.SA makes thieves survive, it doesnt make them kill anything. but in this game you have to kill, there is no last man standing mode.

no, in dueling and wvw, not get killed means you are not lose. survive untill your enemy dead .

cancer are not just SA, minstrel ,dire and trailblazer are the same

In WvW if I am using SA over one of the other lines my damage output drops. I will drop SA when I with a smaller group as survival and resets not needed as much as outright damage so as to focus a target and get it down as quickly as possible. If I am solo , I need survival more and will lean towards SA and dropping damage potential. Pressure IS greater without SA. In those situations where there is a 1v1 , the opening blow can win or lose a fight and this enhanced when one NOT in SA and focused on outright damage lines instead. If your enemy a warrior, necro , scourge and the like your camping stealth is not helping a lot. You want to be able to burst him down quick. Camping stealth on a warrior just sees him heal up and get his skills off cooldown.

There is more to WvW then fighting thief on thief. It not a dueling mode.

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Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

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@"bearshaman.3421" said:People hate change. I get that. But change is inevitable, so might as well roll with it and see what you can do.

Slightly skewed argument. I don't think players are opposed to change but context plays a large role in how change is perceived. Is this a change to avert a game-breaking exploit? It has to be done! Is this a change that is relatively minor and only alters an aspect of the game for the better? Meh, if it's better or not is subjective but if it's minor, lots won't even notice it changed. Is this a change that greatly alters the look and/or feel of something that is popular for no largely perceivable reason (that was explained, at least)? Why?

Someone above said just grow up and take it like a man, and that can be one way to go about it. But if you're actually paying attention, not everyone is going to do that. And if Anet keep making changes that require players to "grow up and take it like a man", well, they'll likely start to look for better options instead. Do you want more players in your game or less?

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CattyWampus.9721

CattyWampus.9721

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@TwiceDead.1963 said:

@Aistos.5174 said:You are right, it literally came out of nowhere and this makes this bad changes even worse. No one aked for changes of DE (maybe not more than a nerf of DJ in numbers PvP wise);
and now you can‘t even play this class anymore.
At least I and many others as it sounds, it just doesn‘t make fun anymore. If you give me a nerf I accept it without saying anything (never posted here before 5/8 patch) but not if you take away my class/spec.

For me the DE spec was the main reason to buy PoF either; so much for trust in this game. And if this happens to DE in this way, it can happen to every other class too, anytime and out of nowhere...

Enough with the hyperbole...Deadeye as a trailtline is (mostly) fine.Rifle as a weaponset is the only issue that needs to be sorted.

I agree although. know its not Hyperbole, I couldn't care about the trait line as it didn't effect rifle for me it seems. Im talking about the complete removal of the passive malice system, People seem to be infatuated with the ability to gain malice by attacking through initiative after this patch, yet they forget we already had this you had the option to speed into malice like you have now. They just removed an entire patient calm and relaxing play style and are forcing people who enjoyed lying in wait to strike to HAVE to spam 3 and be a glorified fucking machine gun user or something. I am talking about rifle as that is what this patch mainly decimated, the only trait I want back is stealth on kneel but that trait change is a direct alteration from the original, only because rifle got scrapped basically. I understand alot of these changes benefit other weapon types. But you cant argue the fact that Deadeye was sold on rifle and advertised as a sniper. It is no longer able to be a proper sniper nor is rifle a viable option its clunky and busted and performs awfully I understand anet wont change it back. But at this point your blatantly just declaring you dont care that rifle has been abandoned because it suits your needs on your other weapons. This change did have benefits but not a single one of them helped rifle It literally broke rifle users game play. This would be like if daredevil got changed to fit all other weapons even more but at the cost of not making staff viable at all. It makes no sense. Passive malice needs to come back and Rifle needs to be re-rolled as well as any traits that were directly bound to its earlier mechanics. The other changes are welcome to me because they present ways for other weapons to spend their malice and make non-rifle deadeyes have options and thats good, but you cant have it at the expense of the designated weapons ability Rifle has been put in the grave. Both thematically and effectively.

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Bunny.9834

Bunny.9834

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I agree although. know its not Hyperbole, I couldn't care about the trait line as it didn't effect rifle for me it seems. Im talking about the complete removal of the passive malice system, People seem to be infatuated with the ability to gain malice by attacking through initiative after this patch, yet they forget we already had this you had the option to speed into malice like you have now. They just removed an entire patient calm and relaxing play style and are forcing people who enjoyed lying in wait to strike to HAVE to spam 3 and be a glorified kitten machine gun user or something. I am talking about rifle as that is what this patch mainly decimated, the only trait I want back is stealth on kneel but that trait change is a direct alteration from the original, only because rifle got scrapped basically. I understand alot of these changes benefit other weapon types. But you cant argue the fact that Deadeye was sold on rifle and advertised as a sniper. It is no longer able to be a proper sniper nor is rifle a viable option its clunky and busted and performs awfully I understand anet wont change it back. But at this point your blatantly just declaring you dont care that rifle has been abandoned because it suits your needs on your other weapons. This change did have benefits but not a single one of them helped rifle It literally broke rifle users game play. This would be like if daredevil got changed to fit all other weapons even more but at the cost of not making staff viable at all. It makes no sense. Passive malice needs to come back and Rifle needs to be re-rolled as well as any traits that were directly bound to its earlier mechanics. The other changes are welcome to me because they present ways for other weapons to spend their malice and make non-rifle deadeyes have options and thats good, but you cant have it at the expense of the designated weapons ability Rifle has been put in the grave. Both thematically and effectively.

No more sniper, just Squishy Rambo. >.>

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bq pd.2148

bq pd.2148

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:so when do you plan to make thieves attacks blockable again?

or do you hate everyone not playing thief?

please dont tell me that is about DJ.that is alot easier to avoid and less spammable then CB was, so we got a nerf to our unblockable potential.

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Klypto.1703

Klypto.1703

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Yeah they really should put the stealth back onto the rifle #5 especially since the dodge roll requires you to use the rifle when doing it. Plus its not a daredevil so it has no endurance management and then weapons stated like s/p and p/p have very little access to stealth to use their malicious attack. I like how the judgement is the stealth attack but that rifle stealth change is just a bad change that needs to be reverted back or either something better. Possibly a compromise on the stealth is that it will stealth on the kneel if your endurance is less than 50% plus the other thing too the dodge roll is not instant access to stealth being out of combat so with abilities that will immediately lock you down there is no counter play at all in that scenario which happens all the time in wvw.

One other thing though is that the reason for these changes either contradicting in nature or useless. The burst of shadows is the prime example of that because we do not have any traits or abilities that benefit blinding someone and even at 2500 range most likely if someone gets that far away they aren't going to die for it to activate. Then payback is kind of iffy because its good for recharging skills if you've got a lot of trash to target around you to get cd's off skills but beyond that it was a hard cc that had great synergy with Sword/pistol. So while it made some things better it made others worse.

SO anyways here is to hoping they fix and/or get rid of the new annoying parts of DE so I can stop revealing myself and becoming immune to my own mechanics thx anet.

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Lucinellia.9247

Lucinellia.9247

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Deadeye as a trailtline is (mostly) fine.

It really isn't. A quick list of issues, in my opinion, from a PvE perspective.

  • The new M7 mechanic is broken for dagger/dagger so either dagger/dagger or M7 needs a rework. It is hard to determine how well it will work with rifle given how bad rifle is currently. M7 should be the trait we take for higher sustained damage in instanced PvE.
  • Be Quick or Be Killed is still a higher sustained DPS option and this has no interplay with the new Malice mechanic. This trait should be for burst builds in PvP and open world PvE, not the best option for sustained raid encounter damage.
  • Fire for Effect doesn't provide enough Might and Fury for long enough (it needs to be 10 might on 10 people for 20 seconds or so) to offset a huge opportunity cost.
  • Collateral Damage is too weak and competes with One in the Chamber - the two should really be merged as they have different usage scenarios.
  • Payback is sadly useless in instanced PvE but could be a very interesting trait if it worked differently. Having Payback trigger when consuming Malice and the amount of cooldown reduction being proportional to the amount of Malice used would be a good interplay that would add a slight amount of complexity to Deadeye rotations.
  • Premeditation needs more concentration at a minimum if Fire for Effect isn't reworked since support Deadeyes have no access to Seeker's gear in PvE.
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bq pd.2148

bq pd.2148

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@"Miatela.5047" said:

Deadeye as a trailtline is (mostly) fine.

It really isn't. A quick list of issues, in my opinion, from a PvE perspective.
  • The new M7 mechanic is broken for dagger/dagger so either dagger/dagger or M7 needs a rework. It is hard to determine how well it will work with rifle given how bad rifle is currently. M7 should be the trait we take for higher sustained damage in instanced PvE.
  • Be Quick or Be Killed is still a higher sustained DPS option and this has no interplay with the new Malice mechanic. This trait should be for burst builds in PvP and open world PvE, not the best option for sustained raid encounter damage.

in a group the buffs from BQoBK/M7 are already provided by other team members so you only get 7 ini + 2 more malice or 200power/precision.as malice is no longer such a DPS boost, BQoBK will have a greater effect.some asked for an F3 to reset malice without stealth, if that was done buy debuffing the target with 2% more damage taken for every malice stack for 5-10seconds, then you can keep that debuff up and will buff the group DPS by 4% using m7 over BQoBK wich would put m7 ahead in sustained dps.

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Lucinellia.9247

Lucinellia.9247

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@MUDse.7623 said:

in a group the buffs from BQoBK/M7 are already provided by other team members so you only get 7 ini + 2 more malice or 200power/precision.as malice is no longer such a DPS boost, BQoBK will have a greater effect.some asked for an F3 to reset malice without stealth, if that was done buy debuffing the target with 2% more damage taken for every malice stack for 5-10seconds, then you can keep that debuff up and will buff the group DPS by 4% using m7 over BQoBK wich would put m7 ahead in sustained dps.

That's a pretty in-depth way of agreeing with me that M7 needs to be higher sustained DPS in instanced PvE :pI do really like the idea of thief being able to bring any sort of support, I'm just not very hopeful that a change as major as the one you outline will happen since the original Deadeye rework was very poor and I doubt there will be much developer time spent on this rework of a rework.

I guess the best we can do currently is stay hopeful and keep providing feedback. At least developers are finally listening to thief players. Sure it is because the rework was a hot mess in PvE but it honestly feels like this is the most attention that thieves have had in years.

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bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

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@Leo G.4501 said:

@"bearshaman.3421" said:People hate change. I get that. But change is inevitable, so might as well roll with it and see what you can do.

Slightly skewed argument. I don't think players are opposed to change but context plays a large role in how change is perceived. Is this a change to avert a game-breaking exploit? It has to be done! Is this a change that is relatively minor and only alters an aspect of the game for the better? Meh, if it's better or not is subjective but if it's minor, lots won't even notice it changed. Is this a change that greatly alters the look and/or feel of something that is popular for no largely perceivable reason (that was explained, at least)? Why?

Someone above said just grow up and take it like a man, and that can be one way to go about it. But if you're actually paying attention, not everyone is going to do that. And if Anet keep making changes that require players to "grow up and take it like a man", well, they'll likely start to look for better options instead. Do you want
more
players in your game or less?

I miss them explaining their overall reasoning behind changes they are making and where they are gonna make changes next. Though given some of the reactions that people have to that in the past (picking apart everything they say), I can understand why they may have become fed up with doing that. ;-;

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bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

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@Klypto.1703 said:Yeah they really should put the stealth back onto the rifle #5 especially since the dodge roll requires you to use the rifle when doing it. Plus its not a daredevil so it has no endurance management and then weapons stated like s/p and p/p have very little access to stealth to use their malicious attack.

This could be fixed by having one of the offhand pistol skills give stealth. As it is, it's the only weapon set that can't stealth itself somehow (rifle has one, but it is clunky, being the use of #4 for the field, and kneel #4 for the finisher).

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Jay Felger.2510

Jay Felger.2510

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After I did some testing, I come to following conclusion:Regarding deadliness of rifle-thieves in WvW, it feels more of a deadeye-kitten now and the "formerly feared Mark" let enemies laugh in your face.

  1. With the redesign of 'Silent Scope' (no stealth without entering into combat first), rifle-thieves cannot move into tactical advanced positions without using some utility-/elite skills that they will need even more now as a fight proceeds (with the new Malice generation).Attention: Silent Scope does not work as tool-tipp suggests! It won't trigger stealth if you (out-of-combat) rifle-dodge-roll an attack - even as it says "Evaded!"

So, rifle-deadeyes lost some defensive capabilities by combining a dodge roll with "an attempt to stealth" which may or may not trigger and maybe even get them "revealed" as soon as a bullet hits after the dodge-roll-stealth-success!

  1. Death's Judgement max. damage reduction of 11% (5% with Premeditation and Maleficent Seven, without Silent Scope).These 1-2k damage make the difference of bringing down a heavy armoured full-HP player or not. (players healing to full-HP-level in seconds is not that uncommon)

Also, a 2nd up-to full-malice-stack-Death's Judgement in a row is not possible anymore.You have to build-up Malice stacks again. That's a massive burst-damage reduction.

  1. Malice generation to full "Maleficent Seven"-level is way more harder now with all the evades, blocks, reflects while being more vulnerable while constantly attacking.Haven't seen many players (if any) using "Maleficent Seven" anymore (in WvW).Actually I've seen more and more players now who don't even bother with the "Mark" (in WvW), because it doesn't give you that much of a benefit anymore for all the risks it brings by alarming your target (and other players) and giving them time to counterplay.

In that regard, I want to make the following suggestion that will give deadeyes a certain tactical improvement (please let it linger in your mind for a moment):Since the new Mark-Malice(-not-time-based-generation)-system does not impose any threat in itself any longer, please consider redesigning the Mark as "not visible to enemies".There is no need for a glowing Orb pulsing above players heads anymore. Lets be clear on that.If deadeyes have to heavily invest into a fight by constantly attacking with initiative-using-damage skills/critical hits in order to build-up a significant amount of Malice, enemy-players know something serious is coming for them. No more additional heads-up necessary.

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