How about implementing permanent no downstate?

[Gwaihir.1745]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:Would be great, can't get me to play Wvw currently with Downstate. It favors too much bad players which are against the No Downstate.

Wrong, it favours good players because good teamwork, correct fast decision making, etc makes for better outcomes when it comes to stomps, resses, hence why actual good players (when this game still had some good players - TCG, Orange Logo, etc ) made better use of it than even other "pro" teams, let alone WvW players.

Downstate favors bad players because it is favors zergs. No Downstate favors good players, as it should be.

Not really, two zergs of 30, one has better players than other, the one with better players will do better with stomps/resses than the one with worse players, same as if it was 5v5, downstate favours better players.

You seem to complaining it favours the side with the most numbers in a fight, that is not the same as favouring bad players.

Oh yes, newsflash - good players aren't playing a 6 year old MMORPG (or frankly any MMORPG) that is competitively dead and that is relatively low skilled (especially WvW). Outside of teams competing in PvP (which was a long time ago) this has never been a game for skilled PvP and good players, good players realise that...

Your argument that the good players left already isn't valid nor in any relates to this discussion.

Also people arguing that skilled groups basically = running a transfuse necro, what? There's literally FA guilds dedicated the ressing that run nomads theives and transfuse necros. Their spellbreakers can miss every burst and be the worst possible players but they wont get killed they'll get stealth insta ressed until they actually so something right. There's no skill involved in the current downstate.

[Israel.7056]

@zinkz.7045 said:Not really, two zergs of 30, one has better players than other, the one with better players will do better with stomps/resses than the one with worse players, same as if it was 5v5, downstate favours better players.

If they're better players then they should win with or without downed state right?

[Israel.7056]

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Not really. If there is no Downed players in need of rezzing, the zerg will just continue to move on and let the people who were defeated run back to the zerg taking their chances in facing Mirages and Thieves being stealthed and looking to gank anybody running by with their one shot builds. If a zerg that is dependent upon their numbers stops to rez those that are downed that gives you a better chance in taking out more of that zerg. Usually when it comes to a zerg only those that were out of range of Stab and Shields are the ones that go down fast. Then those that are more protected will try to rez those that went down. So you usually do not lose many players to the first initial bomb. Once they start to rez those players you start seeing more being picked off as they are losing their protection and Stab and are now down trying to rez instead of trying to attack.

No Downed state favors the larger more skilled players, like some of those in EU that like to hop servers and overload them with dedicated WvW Guilds, and the Elite PvPers that like to roam around on stealth Mirage or Thief builds that can one shot people or gang up with a group of like minded individuals that will place themselves in front of a respawn point ganking those trying to run back to the zerg.

Yes really. If you weren't trucking 10-20 people on your open almost every single fight during no downed state week your server's/guild's damage needs a lot of work. I had many many many fights where basically the entire fight was over in 5 seconds or less. I do so much damage by myself that I even won a few 1v5s that week. I lost my fair share of fights too don't get me wrong but I screwed up in those fights so I deserved the losses.

No downed state favors players who are better at playing without downed state. What does it mean to be to be good without downed state? It means that you're fast and you react quickly and you land your damage precisely and consistently and you don't get out of position and you don't eat damage that you can't survive. It means that you don't expect to fail, you have to plan to actually succeed. It means no one can fix your completely failures. It means you pay for your mistakes much more dearly. All these things are precisely the things that make players actually good in my view. No downed state is like a filter for bad play and bad habits that people have picked up by playing with downed state myself included.

[Specialka.7290]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

@Specialka.7290 said:Would be great, can't get me to play Wvw currently with Downstate. It favors too much bad players which are against the No Downstate.

Wrong, it favours good players because good teamwork, correct fast decision making, etc makes for better outcomes when it comes to stomps, resses, hence why actual good players (when this game still had some good players - TCG, Orange Logo, etc ) made better use of it than even other "pro" teams, let alone WvW players.

Downstate favors bad players because it is favors zergs. No Downstate favors good players, as it should be.

zergs <> bad players. There are lots of skilled players in zergs.

GW2 already has a mode for those that like small-scale fights, it's called spvp. WvW is the only mode for those who like large-scale fights, don't ruin the only thing we have by favoring one-shot-and-run cheese builds or solo/small-scale players.

Even with nodownstate, you still can play like a zombie in a zerg group. You just need to care for your positioning. You do not want to get one shot? Run with more Hp/armor. Quite simple really.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@Israel.7056 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Not really. If there is no Downed players in need of rezzing, the zerg will just continue to move on and let the people who were defeated run back to the zerg taking their chances in facing Mirages and Thieves being stealthed and looking to gank anybody running by with their one shot builds. If a zerg that is dependent upon their numbers stops to rez those that are downed that gives you a better chance in taking out more of that zerg. Usually when it comes to a zerg only those that were out of range of Stab and Shields are the ones that go down fast. Then those that are more protected will try to rez those that went down. So you usually do not lose many players to the first initial bomb. Once they start to rez those players you start seeing more being picked off as they are losing their protection and Stab and are now down trying to rez instead of trying to attack.

No Downed state favors the larger more skilled players, like some of those in EU that like to hop servers and overload them with dedicated WvW Guilds, and the Elite PvPers that like to roam around on stealth Mirage or Thief builds that can one shot people or gang up with a group of like minded individuals that will place themselves in front of a respawn point ganking those trying to run back to the zerg.

Yes really. If you weren't trucking 10-20 people on your open almost every single fight during no downed state week your server's/guild's damage needs a lot of work. I had many many many fights where basically the entire fight was over in 5 seconds or less. I do so much damage by myself that I even won a few 1v5s that week. I lost my fair share of fights too don't get me wrong but I screwed up in those fights so I deserved the losses.

No downed state favors players who are better at playing without downed state. What does it mean to be to be good without downed state? It means that you're fast and you react quickly and you land your damage precisely and consistently and you don't get out of position and you don't eat damage that you can't survive. It means that you don't expect to fail, you have to plan to actually succeed. It means no one can fix your completely failures. It means you pay for your mistakes much more dearly. All these things are precisely the things that make players actually good in my view. No downed state is like a filter for bad play and bad habits that people have picked up by playing with downed state myself included.

@Israel.7056 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Not really. If there is no Downed players in need of rezzing, the zerg will just continue to move on and let the people who were defeated run back to the zerg taking their chances in facing Mirages and Thieves being stealthed and looking to gank anybody running by with their one shot builds. If a zerg that is dependent upon their numbers stops to rez those that are downed that gives you a better chance in taking out more of that zerg. Usually when it comes to a zerg only those that were out of range of Stab and Shields are the ones that go down fast. Then those that are more protected will try to rez those that went down. So you usually do not lose many players to the first initial bomb. Once they start to rez those players you start seeing more being picked off as they are losing their protection and Stab and are now down trying to rez instead of trying to attack.

No Downed state favors the larger more skilled players, like some of those in EU that like to hop servers and overload them with dedicated WvW Guilds, and the Elite PvPers that like to roam around on stealth Mirage or Thief builds that can one shot people or gang up with a group of like minded individuals that will place themselves in front of a respawn point ganking those trying to run back to the zerg.

Yes really. If you weren't trucking 10-20 people on your open almost every single fight during no downed state week your server's/guild's damage needs a lot of work. I had many many many fights where basically the entire fight was over in 5 seconds or less. I do so much damage by myself that I even won a few 1v5s that week. I lost my fair share of fights too don't get me wrong but I screwed up in those fights so I deserved the losses.

No downed state favors players who are better at playing without downed state. What does it mean to be to be good without downed state? It means that you're fast and you react quickly and you land your damage precisely and consistently and you don't get out of position and you don't eat damage that you can't survive. It means that you don't expect to fail, you have to plan to actually succeed. It means no one can fix your completely failures. It means you pay for your mistakes much more dearly. All these things are precisely the things that make players actually good in my view. No downed state is like a filter for bad play and bad habits that people have picked up by playing with downed state myself included.

GW2 is a casual MMO. You want only the elite, go play any of the more hardcore MMO's out there. Leave those of us whose physical handicaps leave us ONLY this game something to play.

You like fights that depend on fast-twitch reaction speeds, go do sPvP. Large-scale fights with downed state give those of us who depend on anticipation rather than reaction a fighting chance. No-downstate week was completely boring and annoying for melee-based zerg players and those who kept getting ganked out of spawn trying to run back by unbeatable mesmer/thief stealth groups spawn camping us.

Yes anet, if you want to turn gw2 into a paradise for every internet epeen esports wanabe out there, by all means get rid of the game mechanic that makes your system fairly unique.

[Specialka.7290]

I am quite sure that Anet will like to know that their game is perfect for handicaped person :)

[Israel.7056]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:GW2 is a casual MMO. You want only the elite, go play any of the more hardcore MMO's out there.

Why don't you go play a PvE MMO and just fight E-Dragons?

Leave those of us whose physical handicaps leave us ONLY this game something to play.

There are other more PvE oriented MMOs you could play if no downed state really makes the game unplayable for you.

You like fights that depend on fast-twitch reaction speeds, go do sPvP. Large-scale fights with downed state give those of us who depend on anticipation rather than reaction a fighting chance. No-downstate week was completely boring and annoying for melee-based zerg players and those who kept getting ganked out of spawn trying to run back by unbeatable mesmer/thief stealth groups spawn camping us.

If you like slow twitch gameplay go play Auric Basin or something.

I played a melee build most of the time that week and I did fine. Did I have to swap to backline for some comps? Yes. It's not that big of a deal I can play both.

You are going to die to mesmers and thieves with or without downed state if you let yourself get ganked. You need to understand that getting ganked doesn't get any better with downed state. You're not getting ressed if 2 or 3 people jump you by yourself.

Yes anet, if you want to turn gw2 into a paradise for every internet kitten esports wanabe out there, by all means get rid of the game mechanic that makes your system fairly unique.

Oh please I'm a 32 year old man with a normal life I have no delusions of being an esports player.

[Victory.2879]

@Israel.7056 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Not really. If there is no Downed players in need of rezzing, the zerg will just continue to move on and let the people who were defeated run back to the zerg taking their chances in facing Mirages and Thieves being stealthed and looking to gank anybody running by with their one shot builds. If a zerg that is dependent upon their numbers stops to rez those that are downed that gives you a better chance in taking out more of that zerg. Usually when it comes to a zerg only those that were out of range of Stab and Shields are the ones that go down fast. Then those that are more protected will try to rez those that went down. So you usually do not lose many players to the first initial bomb. Once they start to rez those players you start seeing more being picked off as they are losing their protection and Stab and are now down trying to rez instead of trying to attack.

No Downed state favors the larger more skilled players, like some of those in EU that like to hop servers and overload them with dedicated WvW Guilds, and the Elite PvPers that like to roam around on stealth Mirage or Thief builds that can one shot people or gang up with a group of like minded individuals that will place themselves in front of a respawn point ganking those trying to run back to the zerg.

Yes really. If you weren't trucking 10-20 people on your open almost every single fight during no downed state week your server's/guild's damage needs a lot of work. I had many many many fights where basically the entire fight was over in 5 seconds or less. I do so much damage by myself that I even won a few 1v5s that week. I lost my fair share of fights too don't get me wrong but I screwed up in those fights so I deserved the losses.

No downed state favors players who are better at playing without downed state. What does it mean to be to be good without downed state? It means that you're fast and you react quickly and you land your damage precisely and consistently and you don't get out of position and you don't eat damage that you can't survive. It means that you don't expect to fail, you have to plan to actually succeed. It means no one can fix your completely failures. It means you pay for your mistakes much more dearly. All these things are precisely the things that make players actually good in my view. No downed state is like a filter for bad play and bad habits that people have picked up by playing with downed state myself included.

No, it means you play cheese build that does enormous damage but can avoid most incoming damage unless you get unlucky and miss a dodge to a telegraphed skill.

No downed state pushes everyone to either play insta gib stealthed or cheese mirage (or a group of them) or bunker up, depending on whether you're roaming or zerging. It promotes the use of cheese (who then exclaim they are 'good' when beating players not built to roam or classes that are running support) and generally makes the game less fun for those that don't like cheese. For those that do like cheese, try spvp. there you will face players who are ready for you and are playing counters. Too tough for you? That's why you're in wvw, for the easy kills against builds that aren't set up against your cheese.

[Zero.3871]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Farout.8207 said:Just curious who all would be for making no downstate permanent. I was skeptical when Anet first mentioned it but now I really miss it. It was a blast and allowed me to

win some outnumbered fights

that I most likely would have lost otherwise. What exactly is the point of downstate anyway?

Second, the point of downstate is just that,

an extra chance to survive/fight back

. If players are not accounting for a mechanic that has been around for 5 years into their strategy then you're going to be at a disadvantage. Personally, I'd remove the auto-rally aspect but that's irrelevant to this response.

1.) you are Talking About a mechanic that exist since 5 years and everyone should adjust to it, butatm i see tonnes of full Minstrel builds on eles, FBs, chronos, druid, … this builds that are only created around outnumbering the enemy. if you try to fight 1 v 1 they EVER porting away to spawn and dodge the fight. if you try to fight 1 v 2 or 1 v 3, you down 1 or 2 dmg dealer of the enemies and the last one is an unkillable tank that easy revive everyone up, cause your skills are all on cooldown after down 2 Players. and it is just boring too see that People in 6 years dont learn to Play and still running to the greatest blob they can find just to be carried by numbers. that behavior should be punished. cause only skillbased Gameplay is enjoyable.

2.) you said downstate is a Chance to fight back, buthow many chances deserves a Player? i see some enemies getting rallied and revives 5+ times in less than 30 seconds. they just get carried by numbers. its retarded if someone get 100 Million chances to fight back just because they have more Players... the logic that greater blobs are more rewarded by those mechanics is the reason every skillless bandwagoner is ever transfering to the highest populated Servers. that mechanic support Population Imbalances.

if only outnumbered People get the Bonus that enemies have no-downstate, People have a reward for transferring to smaller populated Servers.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

To me that empowers ACs and siege more, like others said it favors cheesy 1 shot builds, and more driver sniping.

[Hackuuna.4085]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Not really. If there is no Downed players in need of rezzing, the zerg will just continue to move on and let the people who were defeated run back to the zerg taking their chances in facing Mirages and Thieves being stealthed and looking to gank anybody running by with their one shot builds. If a zerg that is dependent upon their numbers stops to rez those that are downed that gives you a better chance in taking out more of that zerg. Usually when it comes to a zerg only those that were out of range of Stab and Shields are the ones that go down fast. Then those that are more protected will try to rez those that went down. So you usually do not lose many players to the first initial bomb. Once they start to rez those players you start seeing more being picked off as they are losing their protection and Stab and are now down trying to rez instead of trying to attack.

No Downed state favors the larger more skilled players, like some of those in EU that like to hop servers and overload them with dedicated WvW Guilds, and the Elite PvPers that like to roam around on stealth Mirage or Thief builds that can one shot people or gang up with a group of like minded individuals that will place themselves in front of a respawn point ganking those trying to run back to the zerg.

Yes really. If you weren't trucking 10-20 people on your open almost every single fight during no downed state week your server's/guild's damage needs a lot of work. I had many many many fights where basically the entire fight was over in 5 seconds or less. I do so much damage by myself that I even won a few 1v5s that week. I lost my fair share of fights too don't get me wrong but I screwed up in those fights so I deserved the losses.

No downed state favors players who are better at playing without downed state. What does it mean to be to be good without downed state? It means that you're fast and you react quickly and you land your damage precisely and consistently and you don't get out of position and you don't eat damage that you can't survive. It means that you don't expect to fail, you have to plan to actually succeed. It means no one can fix your completely failures. It means you pay for your mistakes much more dearly. All these things are precisely the things that make players actually good in my view. No downed state is like a filter for bad play and bad habits that people have picked up by playing with downed state myself included.

@Israel.7056 said:

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:Not really. If there is no Downed players in need of rezzing, the zerg will just continue to move on and let the people who were defeated run back to the zerg taking their chances in facing Mirages and Thieves being stealthed and looking to gank anybody running by with their one shot builds. If a zerg that is dependent upon their numbers stops to rez those that are downed that gives you a better chance in taking out more of that zerg. Usually when it comes to a zerg only those that were out of range of Stab and Shields are the ones that go down fast. Then those that are more protected will try to rez those that went down. So you usually do not lose many players to the first initial bomb. Once they start to rez those players you start seeing more being picked off as they are losing their protection and Stab and are now down trying to rez instead of trying to attack.

No Downed state favors the larger more skilled players, like some of those in EU that like to hop servers and overload them with dedicated WvW Guilds, and the Elite PvPers that like to roam around on stealth Mirage or Thief builds that can one shot people or gang up with a group of like minded individuals that will place themselves in front of a respawn point ganking those trying to run back to the zerg.

Yes really. If you weren't trucking 10-20 people on your open almost every single fight during no downed state week your server's/guild's damage needs a lot of work. I had many many many fights where basically the entire fight was over in 5 seconds or less. I do so much damage by myself that I even won a few 1v5s that week. I lost my fair share of fights too don't get me wrong but I screwed up in those fights so I deserved the losses.

No downed state favors players who are better at playing without downed state. What does it mean to be to be good without downed state? It means that you're fast and you react quickly and you land your damage precisely and consistently and you don't get out of position and you don't eat damage that you can't survive. It means that you don't expect to fail, you have to plan to actually succeed. It means no one can fix your completely failures. It means you pay for your mistakes much more dearly. All these things are precisely the things that make players actually good in my view. No downed state is like a filter for bad play and bad habits that people have picked up by playing with downed state myself included.

GW2 is a casual MMO. You want only the elite, go play any of the more hardcore MMO's out there. Leave those of us whose physical handicaps leave us ONLY this game something to play.

You like fights that depend on fast-twitch reaction speeds, go do sPvP. Large-scale fights with downed state give those of us who depend on anticipation rather than reaction a fighting chance. No-downstate week was completely boring and annoying for melee-based zerg players and those who kept getting ganked out of spawn trying to run back by unbeatable mesmer/thief stealth groups spawn camping us.

Yes anet, if you want to turn gw2 into a paradise for every internet kitten esports wanabe out there, by all means get rid of the game mechanic that makes your system fairly unique.

Having a physical handicap does not prevent your server from organizing itself better. I guarantee you if there's no downstate and you're having problems with mesmers/thieves then your servers roamers are being negated and need to get better. Since you've almost never had to worry about thieves or mesmers ganking people in the middle of zergs you've never had to train yourself on how to be aware of incoming ganks or who to make friends with to take them out. Over time you will adapt.

If you took the time to make friends with roamers you'd have some people to call on to take out other mesmers/thieves that are giving problems. Believe me, the biggest enjoyment roamers get out of this game is taking out other competent roamers. Winning 1vX fights is a thrill, but beating out other competitive capable people is even more of a thrill.

With no downstate more players are included in large scale fights, which is a good thing. Ganking classes have a place and the server without good gank is going to have a strategic disadvantage.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@Israel.7056 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

There are other more PvE oriented MMOs you could play if no downed state really makes the game unplayable for you.

If you like slow twitch gameplay go play Auric Basin or something.

So I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy any form of PvP whatsoever? If all I wanted to do was pve, that's all I would do.

I played a melee build most of the time that week and I did fine. Did I have to swap to backline for some comps? Yes. It's not that big of a deal I can play both.

Melee builds are terrible for pirate ship, which is pretty much all I saw. I ended up switching to a rev later in the week just to get tags.

You are going to die to mesmers and thieves with or without downed state if you let yourself get ganked. You need to understand that getting ganked doesn't get any better with downed state. You're not getting ressed if 2 or 3 people jump you by yourself.

I saw tons more gank squads than normal. They were by far a greater proportion of players that week than usual, because no-down state encourages one-shot gank-and-run tactics.

No downstate --> pirate ship for zergsNo downstate --> proliferation of cheese gank builds

These are NOT good things for the game.

[Israel.7056]

@Victory.2879 said:No, it means you play cheese build that does enormous damage but can avoid most incoming damage unless you get unlucky and miss a dodge to a telegraphed skill.

No downed state pushes everyone to either play insta gib stealthed or cheese mirage (or a group of them) or bunker up, depending on whether you're roaming or zerging. It promotes the use of cheese (who then exclaim they are 'good' when beating players not built to roam or classes that are running support) and generally makes the game less fun for those that don't like cheese. For those that do like cheese, try spvp. there you will face players who are ready for you and are playing counters. Too tough for you? That's why you're in wvw, for the easy kills against builds that aren't set up against your cheese.

I main rev, how about you? I have a very hard time against mesmers and thieves same as you or anyone else, worse perhaps as mesmer and thief are probably the worst matchups for me personally. I still do fine though so don't project your ineptitude onto me just because you can't figure out how to deal with mesmers and thieves.

[Israel.7056]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:So I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy any form of PvP whatsoever? If all I wanted to do was pve, that's all I would do.

Do you have to be able to win in order to be able to enjoy PvP?

Melee builds are terrible for pirate ship, which is pretty much all I saw. I ended up switching to a rev later in the week just to get tags.

If you can't handle playing melee don't play melee. Nothing wrong with switching to range if you feel like you need to.

I saw tons more gank squads than normal. They were by far a greater proportion of players that week than usual, because no-down state encourages one-shot gank-and-run tactics.

No downstate --> pirate ship for zergsNo downstate --> proliferation of cheese gank builds

These are NOT good things for the game.

Well I saw most guilds running full melee ball comp and running people over so maybe you play for a bad server?

I saw more people playing in general that week but I didn't notice any extra gank comps but if they were out there good. I like gank comps they keep people on their toes.

[LetoII.3782]

@Israel.7056 said:

@"BlueMelody.6398" said:

I saw

tons

more gank squads than normal. They were by far a greater proportion of players that week than usual, because no-down state encourages one-shot gank-and-run tactics.

Well I saw most guilds running full melee ball comp and running people over so maybe you play for a bad server?

I saw more people playing in general that week but I didn't notice any extra gank comps but if they were out there good. I like gank comps they keep people on their toes.

Having to run back from spawn more frequently than normal would indeed result in seeing more "gank squads". Some players have spent the whole game safely nestled in the blob.

[BlueMelody.6398]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@"BlueMelody.6398" said:

I saw

tons

more gank squads than normal. They were by far a greater proportion of players that week than usual, because no-down state encourages one-shot gank-and-run tactics.

Well I saw most guilds running full melee ball comp and running people over so maybe you play for a bad server?

I saw more people playing in general that week but I didn't notice any extra gank comps but if they were out there good. I like gank comps they keep people on their toes.

Having to run back from spawn more frequently than normal would indeed result in seeing more "gank squads". Some players have spent the whole game safely nestled in the blob.

I just tanked up and played uber-cautiously and didn't die any more than usual. I saw a lot more gank squads doing their fish-in-a-barrel routine near spawn than usual by percentage. I saw more because there were more. Those squads were 100% reward/0% risk. That is not balance, and it is not healthy for the game.

I also had a lot less fun than usual because it is freaking boring tap-dancing back and forth all the time unable to commit. Enemy blobs were doing the same. First zerg to push full-scale lost more than they won due to massive aoe-bombs.

I enjoy playing melee in zergs, and I got very little action (and almost no bags) while doing that.

[Farout.8207]

@LetoII.3782 said:

Some players have spent the whole game safely nestled in the blob.

Pressing 1 is so fulfilling. /s

[Israel.7056]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:I just tanked up and played uber-cautiously and didn't die any more than usual. I saw a lot more gank squads doing their fish-in-a-barrel routine near spawn than usual by percentage. I saw more because there were more. Those squads were 100% reward/0% risk. That is not balance, and it is not healthy for the game.

So this is like guilt by association.

Bears are bad> Fish attracts bears > Fish are bad.

[Jski.6180]

There too many effects that work with down state as the main use that adds a lot of combat depth to wvw to just remove it over night. You would need to make down state effect do something else. The best thing i can think of is adding in more blast field or combo finisher effects that use to be on rez.

I think the best chose is to nerf down state hp 3x base hp makes some classes way too hard to kill in down state and often due to lag other classes are too easy to kill in down state so a stander hp for all class should be the same. The number of times you can rally needs to be nerf may be 1 to 2 times after that you go into full down. The duration of down state (how long before you can go down agen) needs to be up say 3 mins.

[Farout.8207]

@BlueMelody.6398 said:

I saw a lot more gank squads doing their fish-in-a-barrel routine near spawn than usual by percentage. I saw more because there were more. Those squads were 100% reward/0% risk.

Grab a couple of friends and kill them, problem solved.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Zero.3871 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Farout.8207 said:Just curious who all would be for making no downstate permanent. I was skeptical when Anet first mentioned it but now I really miss it. It was a blast and allowed me to

win some outnumbered fights

that I most likely would have lost otherwise. What exactly is the point of downstate anyway?

Second, the point of downstate is just that,

an extra chance to survive/fight back

. If players are not accounting for a mechanic that has been around for 5 years into their strategy then you're going to be at a disadvantage. Personally, I'd remove the auto-rally aspect but that's irrelevant to this response.

1.) you are Talking About a mechanic that exist since 5 years and everyone should adjust to it, butatm i see tonnes of full Minstrel builds on eles, FBs, chronos, druid, … this builds that are only created around outnumbering the enemy. if you try to fight 1 v 1 they EVER porting away to spawn and dodge the fight. if you try to fight 1 v 2 or 1 v 3, you down 1 or 2 dmg dealer of the enemies and the last one is an unkillable tank that easy revive everyone up, cause your skills are all on cooldown after down 2 Players. and it is just boring too see that People in 6 years dont learn to Play and still running to the greatest blob they can find just to be carried by numbers. that behavior should be punished. cause only skillbased Gameplay is enjoyable.

2.) you said downstate is a Chance to fight back, buthow many chances deserves a Player? i see some enemies getting rallied and revives 5+ times in less than 30 seconds. they just get carried by numbers. its kitten if someone get 100 Million chances to fight back just because they have more Players... the logic that greater blobs are more rewarded by those mechanics is the reason every skillless bandwagoner is ever transfering to the highest populated Servers. that mechanic support Population Imbalances.

if only outnumbered People get the Bonus that enemies have no-downstate, People have a reward for transferring to smaller populated Servers.

I was hoping to not need to re-quote this.

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Farout.8207 said:Just curious who all would be for making no downstate permanent. I was skeptical when Anet first mentioned it but now I really miss it. It was a blast and allowed me to

win some outnumbered fights

that I most likely would have lost otherwise. What exactly is the point of downstate anyway?

No. First, any

idea implemented into the game should be balanced around balance scenarios

.

Why do people keep bringing up out of balance scenarios? Why are you seeking a 1v1 in WvW against a "zerg" minstrel FB? Clearly that isn't the game play they seek anyway, and then you're somehow offended by their different desires? Why are you trying to fight 1v1+X then surprised they brought group support (2+ is a group after all)?

Your second point is irrelevant since you insist on holding onto unbalanced situations and exaggerate mechanics (you can only "rally" 3 times in a perfect scenario of illusion of life/rebound/other abilities). In reality (assuming they don't insta drop to condis after getting up) they get 1 chance due to crap balance. The commanders themselves will probably get 2 chances since more people care to revive them than others. If they're rallying a lot (as I said I am against auto rally), that means your side is dying and needs to reevaluate their survival in blob fights. Obviously superior numbers will have an advantage regardless.

Outnumbered Buff should not provide any statistical benefits that affect combat. This would artificially inflate a servers effectiveness and potentially keep them in a match up they probably shouldn't be in. I am never for changing how "Outnumbered Buff" works when it comes to combat.

If you think this knee jerk emotional reaction is convincing me of anything you'd be wrong.

Change my mind.

[Farout.8207]

@Jski.6180 said:

The number of times you can rally needs to be nerf may be 1 to 2 times after that you go into full down.

Downstate shouldn't exist in my opinion but if it must the rallying mechanic should definitely be removed. How does an opponent dying magically bring you back into the fight? Downed players should at very least require some sort of physical interaction to revive.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

No, don't do it.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@Israel.7056 said:

@BlueMelody.6398 said:I just tanked up and played uber-cautiously and didn't die any more than usual. I saw a lot more gank squads doing their fish-in-a-barrel routine near spawn than usual by percentage. I saw more because there

were

more. Those squads were 100% reward/0% risk. That is not balance, and it is not healthy for the game.

So this is like guilt by association.

Bears are bad> Fish attracts bears > Fish are bad.

Who said bears were bad? When did this meeting take place and why wasn't I informed?

[Zero.3871]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Farout.8207 said:Just curious who all would be for making no downstate permanent. I was skeptical when Anet first mentioned it but now I really miss it. It was a blast and allowed me to

win some outnumbered fights

that I most likely would have lost otherwise. What exactly is the point of downstate anyway?

Second, the point of downstate is just that,

an extra chance to survive/fight back

. If players are not accounting for a mechanic that has been around for 5 years into their strategy then you're going to be at a disadvantage. Personally, I'd remove the auto-rally aspect but that's irrelevant to this response.

1.) you are Talking About a mechanic that exist since 5 years and everyone should adjust to it, butatm i see tonnes of full Minstrel builds on eles, FBs, chronos, druid, … this builds that are only created around outnumbering the enemy. if you try to fight 1 v 1 they EVER porting away to spawn and dodge the fight. if you try to fight 1 v 2 or 1 v 3, you down 1 or 2 dmg dealer of the enemies and the last one is an unkillable tank that easy revive everyone up, cause your skills are all on cooldown after down 2 Players. and it is just boring too see that People in 6 years dont learn to Play and still running to the greatest blob they can find just to be carried by numbers. that behavior should be punished. cause only skillbased Gameplay is enjoyable.

2.) you said downstate is a Chance to fight back, buthow many chances deserves a Player? i see some enemies getting rallied and revives 5+ times in less than 30 seconds. they just get carried by numbers. its kitten if someone get 100 Million chances to fight back just because they have more Players... the logic that greater blobs are more rewarded by those mechanics is the reason every skillless bandwagoner is ever transfering to the highest populated Servers. that mechanic support Population Imbalances.

if only outnumbered People get the Bonus that enemies have no-downstate, People have a reward for transferring to smaller populated Servers.

I was hoping to not need to re-quote this.

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Farout.8207 said:Just curious who all would be for making no downstate permanent. I was skeptical when Anet first mentioned it but now I really miss it. It was a blast and allowed me to

win some outnumbered fights

that I most likely would have lost otherwise. What exactly is the point of downstate anyway?

No. First, any

idea implemented into the game should be balanced around balance scenarios

.

Why do people keep bringing up out of balance scenarios? Why are you seeking a 1v1 in WvW against a "zerg" minstrel FB? Clearly that isn't the game play they seek anyway, and then you're somehow offended by their different desires? Why are you trying to fight 1v1+X then surprised they brought group support (2+ is a

group

after all)?

Your second point is irrelevant since you insist on holding onto unbalanced situations and exaggerate mechanics (you can only "rally" 3 times in a perfect scenario of illusion of life/rebound/other abilities). In reality (assuming they don't insta drop to condis after getting up) they get 1 chance due to crap balance. The commanders themselves will probably get 2 chances since more people care to revive them than others. If they're rallying a lot (as I said I am against auto rally), that means your side is dying and needs to reevaluate their survival in blob fights. Obviously superior numbers will have an advantage regardless.

Outnumbered Buff should not provide any statistical benefits that affect combat. This would artificially inflate a servers effectiveness and potentially keep them in a match up they probably shouldn't be in. I am never for changing how "Outnumbered Buff" works when it comes to combat.

If you think this knee jerk emotional reaction is convincing me of anything you'd be wrong.

Change my mind.

i dont flame their group support. they can have their support when their alive. but when they already have the Advantage of numbers, that means 3 v 1, WHY they ALSO should get a further mechanic that snowballs with their number? is quantity not enough to carry skillless People? you just dont want to accept that downstate support a quantity based gamestyle and not a Quality based gamestyle. downstate give the greater Group always way more space for mistakes. but wvw is a pvp gamemode. and in pvp gamemodes every Player or party should have the same Chance to win a fight, thats balancing. why supporting a mechanic that greater the Chance for winning the fight for the Party that is already in an Advantage because of numbers?