The thing that ruined Ep 3 for me...(spoiler)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Arden.7480 said:How did she even enter?

Probably the gigantic pateo and windows behind Joko as he fixes himself up and gives his speech.

I mean, Chekov's Gun and all that: The devs could've easily have made it a closed room with no exit to the outside.

You mean the ones the cameras were facing the

entire time

for the cinematic? The ones that were in front of the Commander and behind Joko, despite Aurene popping in from Joko's left, where there was nothing but wall and tar?

I just figured she followed the Commander in the same route that he/she took and flew up and then over into Joko.

So she came through the entrance across the long, lengthy room which Joko was facing, only to swerve around them and angle her body in a way that makes it look like she came at him perpendicular to the way he was facing, rather than at an angle towards his front?

[Tyson.5160]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Arden.7480 said:How did she even enter?

Probably the gigantic pateo and windows behind Joko as he fixes himself up and gives his speech.

I mean, Chekov's Gun and all that: The devs could've easily have made it a closed room with no exit to the outside.

You mean the ones the cameras were facing the

entire time

for the cinematic? The ones that were in front of the Commander and behind Joko, despite Aurene popping in from Joko's left, where there was nothing but wall and tar?

I just figured she followed the Commander in the same route that he/she took and flew up and then over into Joko.

So she came through the entrance across the long, lengthy room which Joko was facing, only to swerve around them and angle her body in a way that makes it look like she came at him perpendicular to the way he was facing, rather than at an angle towards his front?

Yeah, I don’t know. My next guess would be that’s just the way the designed the cinematic and could care less if it made sense or not in terms of how Aurene got in there.

[Michram.6853]

Yes... Aurene can now go through the walls without breaking them. New mastery for roller beetle confirmed!

[Castigator.3470]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:So she came through the entrance across the long, lengthy room which Joko was facing, only to swerve around them and angle her body in a way that makes it look like she came at him perpendicular to the way he was facing, rather than at an angle towards his front?

Actually, that is possible, considering she must have been approaching at full speed, so something between 16,66 and 25 m/s. This means in order to turn, she would have to veer her body, similar to a small truck. After her drifting maneuver she'd reaccelarate and jump on Joko.The only incredible thing here is Joko himself. How did he not notice?!When his eyes were glowing like that, was he in Joko's Fantasyland? Did his contact lenses burn away? Is he deaf? Was he actually embracing death by dragon?Can Aurene into stealth?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There would still be an angle seen on her body unless she took a very sharp turn and has a very rigid body and tail (which we know isn't the case).

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

, there are two windows in the wall, with the camera only catching the edge of the one to the right. It would still require a very tight turn for Aurene to come through the portion offscreen and then hit Joko from the angle she did, but going frame by frame, she's actually rising when she enters the shot, meaning she had to have landed and then jumped. That would allow for the turn. The timing is still tight- there's only a six second window between Joko looking away from that side of the room and Aurene hitting, and it does look like he glances that way a split second before the attack- but given that he was well and truly committed to his monologue by that point, I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to suspend disbelief on.

[Bast.7253]

@TeeracK.3601 said:I think its interesting to consider though how Aurene became a lot more aggressive once she took magic from Balthazar. Mixing in Joko's essence into her now sounds kind of terrifying.

She hasn’t became more aggressive though. She was defending us like this even as a baby. People just have he idea that she’s more aggressive because of what Canach said. Maybe that’s what Arenanet wants us to think about her, but if so then they should have done a better job of showing that because her behavior hasn’t really changed or seemed out of character.

[Tyson.5160]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@TeeracK.3601 said:I think its interesting to consider though how Aurene became a lot more aggressive once she took magic from Balthazar. Mixing in Joko's essence into her now sounds kind of terrifying.

She hasn’t became more aggressive though. She was defending us like this even as a baby. People just have he idea that she’s more aggressive because of what Canach said. Maybe that’s what Arenanet wants us to think about her, but if so then they should have done a better job of showing that because her behavior hasn’t really changed or seemed out of character.

Could be a bit of both. Protecting and knowing there’s a juicy meal.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

I think they have been showing a change in Aurene. The first time we fight with her as a baby, we have to teach her to take it seriously and not see it as a game. Both times she joins us after that are to fight Balthazar, who we had no chance of beating on our own. The first time, at the very least, she had no apparent motive besides protecting us.

Stage 2 Aurene is displaying much different behavior. We're still on the same side, but she doesn't stick with us; she's off doing her own thing most of the time, and that seems to include an awful lot of her raining down destruction. For most of episodes 1 and 3, she doesn't seem to have too much interest or concern about what the Commander is doing personally, with our encounters coming when we just happen to be in the same section of the battlefield. It's hard to tell with a character who doesn't speak, but so far as we can see, her motives for violence have shifted drastically. Time will tell whether that's a good or a bad thing.

I'm not convinced that this change is down to eating Balthazar, though. She's gone through a lot in a very short period of time, especially for someone in her second year of life. She's jumped from a sheltered lifestyle to a front row seat to the brutality of fantasy war. She had someone with whom she was psychically linked, to the extent that their pain and distress allegedly drew her from across the ocean, die in front of her, despite her best efforts to save them. She was kidnapped, imprisoned, and used as a battery for a weapon. She had a massive surge in size, power, and, potentially, mental development. She's gone toe-to-toe with wyverns in the heart of a brandstorm and wreaked havoc on landbound armies. And now she has eaten 'alive' someone that was arguably human. Any of those things seems to me a much more compelling avenue to explore than 'she is what she eats'. If they're serious about treating her as a character instead of a plot device, framing her as a blue Kirby doesn't seem like the way to go about it.

[Alpharius.2138]

I found it rather fitting. Last time we saved Elona, an NPC we hadn't heard from in a while dashed in and stole our thunder right at our moment of triumph. History likes to repeat itself.

[Michram.6853]

Kinda reminds me of Daenerys and her dragons when they were maturing.

But I am more about that she just popped up from nowhere.

It was a nice idea to show her as somebody cruel, but the way the designers showed it was very disappointing.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

[Bast.7253]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

Yeah, I think with her having visions of events she knows where she needs to go to help us most. And I think she’s more “aggressive” because she’s maturing and knows she is powerful enough to actually fight back. I don’t think there’s anything bad being displayed, I think she’s just growing up.

[ROMANG.1903]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

Yea but she shouldn't be used as a Deus Ex Machina. Joko had won. How can I ever feel in danger when I know that Aurene can jump in from nowhere and eat people everytime I'm in a bad situation?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

Yea but she shouldn't be used as a Deus Ex Machina. Joko had won. How can I ever feel in danger when I know that Aurene can jump in from nowhere and eat people everytime I'm in a bad situation?

That ship sailed when the big B literally killed us ... we were d-e-a-d dead. And yet we're back to wreak more havoc on the world save the world again.

Plus, at this point, I would worry that Aurene can jump in from nowhere and eat ... world leaders or peasants or ... well, the commander.

If Mordremoth Aurene could attack kill the Mother Tree Joko in the Grove his stronghold, it she can attack anywhere!

She's a dragon, not some cute little pet of ours.

[Tyson.5160]

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

Yea but she shouldn't be used as a Deus Ex Machina. Joko had won. How can I ever feel in danger when I know that Aurene can jump in from nowhere and eat people everytime I'm in a bad situation?

Except Aurene isn’t a Deus Ex Machina, she has been flying in and assisting us since episode 1 and is almost every single story instance since.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@Arden.7480 said:How did she even enter?

Probably the gigantic pateo and windows behind Joko as he fixes himself up and gives his speech.

I mean, Chekov's Gun and all that: The devs could've easily have made it a closed room with no exit to the outside.

You mean the ones the cameras were facing the

entire time

for the cinematic? The ones that were in front of the Commander and behind Joko, despite Aurene popping in from Joko's left, where there was nothing but wall and tar?

LOL.

Didn't say it made any sense, but as I was saying the devs wouldn't have put an such an obvious exit/entrance to the outside without reason. I'm fairly certain that they intended to imply that is how Aurene ultimately got in...

[Pax.3548]

I think the fact Aurene gets more violent the more she grows is because of her draconic nature. Wasn't Vlast struggling with some kind of wrath as he grew up too? and if I remember right when Snaff read into Kralkatorrik mind he only saw an irrational and immense anger. Glint wasn't violent like that but her reading mind abilities could have given her the perspective needed to control her violent nature.

Perphaps at some point Aurene's draconic nature will give us some problems.

[Michram.6853]

@Pax.3548 said:I think the fact Aurene gets more violent the more she grows is because of her draconic nature. Wasn't Vlast struggling with some kind of wrath as he grew up too? and if I remember right when Snaff read into Kralkatorrik mind he only saw an irrational and immense anger. Glint wasn't violent like that but her reading mind abilities could have given her the perspective needed to control her violent nature.

Perphaps at some point Aurene's draconic nature will give us some problems.

I think glint's problem was not that she was born as a dragon.Same with human, norn or asura- they do not cause the problems because they are human, norn, asura, but because of the problems they grow up with.

I mean it's not a problem that she was the dragon, but that she was born as Kralk's champion.

We are mentors to Aurene so she will defeat Kralk's influence in her mind, but she is his blood- his weakness but also his strength.

We need to spend as much time as possible to show her she is not alone as Vlast was.

I think Aurene will turn away from us at some point, but I speculate her Kralk's influence will be destroyed by the ancient Forgotten that will appear giving not only that, but also the answers about the gods and Tyria itself.

They were known from the secrets that even gods didn't know about, I really want the Forgotten to return to the story as themselves.

Also its said that they came from elsewhere- not Tyria, not the Mists, but from somewhere else.

Aurene is the key. The Forgotten, if they still exist, know that.

[Pax.3548]

@"Arden.7480" said:

I think glint's problem was not that she was born as a dragon.Same with human, norn or asura- they do not cause the problems because they are human, norn, asura, but because of the problems they grow up with.

I don't think we can put dragons at the same level as other races, their kind is very unique and different, same with their interaction with magic.

I mean it's not a problem that she was the dragon, but that she was born as Kralk's champion.

Mmm that could be true, Mordremoth wasn't shown to be the "all furious" kind of dragon, maybe this facet is more related to Kralkatorrik and his related minions and champions.

We are mentors to Aurene so she will defeat Kralk's influence in her mind, but she is his blood- his weakness but also his strength.

We need to spend as much time as possible to show her she is not alone as Vlast was.

Agreed

I think Aurene will turn away from us at some point, but I speculate her Kralk's influence will be destroyed by the ancient Forgotten that will appear giving not only that, but also the answers about the gods and Tyria itself.

They were known from the secrets that even gods didn't know about, I really want the Forgotten to return to the story as themselves.

Also its said that they came from elsewhere- not Tyria, not the Mists, but from somewhere else.

Aurene is the key. The Forgotten, if they still exist, know that.

I also don't think we're done with the forgotten, but I don't expect them having a glorious return neither, probably one or a small group of forgotten will help giving us some answers and perhpaps a key in using Aurene to finally replace one of the elder dragons, guess we'll have to wait and see

[castlemanic.3198]

So there are those who are more in tune with the lore than I am, and considering we know at least some of Aurene's potential, either from what we've seen in game, know of Glint or can deduce from her status as the grandchild of an elder dragon, I'd like to pose a genuine question.

Is it possible Aurene used a bunch of her powers to take down Joko the way she did?

We know from Path of Fire that Aurene basically has a honing beacon on us (she flew from the Maguuma Wastes to the very place we were dying at the hands of Balthazar), and through that some connection to what we're seeing and doing.

We also know that Aurene has at least some telepathic capability. While baby aurene making a vision of herself in season 3 can be attributed to the connection between the commander and Aurene, she did manage to share that vision of prophecy in episode 1. Glint was also telepathic, and while we don't know the full capabilities of telepathy in the Guild Wars universe (at least telepathy related to Glint's lineage).

Aurene has also, in season 3, shown she's perfectly capable of turning invisible. While the commander does find her, that was baby Aurene with not a lot of power. Adolescent Aurene has been shown taking on a branded wyvern and laying waste to the battlefields she's participated in. So it's possible her invisibility is that much more powerful now.

Also, we know how a massive flood of adrenaline can cause people to push beyond the normal limitations of the human body (mothers lifting cars to get to their children etc.), if Aurene had that same sense of dread and leapt into action, could it have caused some of her abilities to momentarily flare in strength?

Finally, Aurene, as a dragon can eat magic. If there are magical defenses that Joko had set up, it's quite possible that Aurene just devoured them on her way in (or ate enough to at least render the magic useless)

Honestly, this is grasping at straws to make sense of what is 100% a plot device, but if the pieces fit together it could create at least some sort of narrative cohesion that was missing beforehand.

[Pax.3548]

@castlemanic.3198 said:Aurene has also, in season 3, shown she's perfectly capable of turning invisible. While the commander does find her, that was baby Aurene with not a lot of power. Adolescent Aurene has been shown taking on a branded wyvern and laying waste to the battlefields she's participated in. So it's possible her invisibility is that much more powerful now.

Holy dang, I forgot about that lol this may answer why Aurene surprised Joko out of nowhere. Many out there question that Aurene, being big as she is, managed to surprise Joko, who should have seen her coming at him. Perhaps she flew into the palace while using her magic to make herself invisible and then jumped on Joko. But truly, I'm not sure if the invisibility in that chapter was a real thing or just a game mechanic meaning to show she was just good at hiding and camouflaging (somehow) with her surroundings.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Pax.3548 said:Holy dang, I forgot about that lol this may answer why Aurene surprised Joko out of nowhere. Many out there question that Aurene, being big as she is, managed to surprise Joko, who should have seen her coming at him. Perhaps she flew into the palace while using her magic to make herself invisible and then jumped on Joko. But truly, I'm not sure if the invisibility in that chapter was a real thing or just a game mechanic meaning to show she was just good at hiding and camouflaging (somehow) with her surroundings.

That's the flip side of it. Game mechanics wise, it's much simpler to just stick stealth on somebody than giving them a unique status with camouflage or invisibility. That's probably why mesmers gain stealth despite the fact that their illusionary magic is fully capable of turning someone invisible. Aurene could very well have been using some sort of magical camouflage as opposed to true invisibility, but the mechanics of the game wouldn't be able to tell us exactly how, and camouflage really only works if you're standing still in a realistic setting.

It's difficult to tell with something like that how specific/powerful an ability like that is when the game mechanics don't always relay lore effectively. For simplicity's sake, I made the assumption it was invisibility, but it's a hasty assumption considering we've only seen it once. It could be used as a hand wavy excuse of how Aurene can pop in and out of existence and be nearby enough to affect a situation without having everyone within a mile freak out about a blue dragon setting fire to things.

[Ephemiel.5694]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

Yea but she shouldn't be used as a Deus Ex Machina. Joko had won. How can I ever feel in danger when I know that Aurene can jump in from nowhere and eat people everytime I'm in a bad situation?

Except Aurene isn’t a Deus Ex Machina, she has been flying in and assisting us since episode 1 and is almost every single story instance since.

That's exactly why she's a Deus Ex Machina. She simply pops up whenever we happen to need her even if we had no idea where she was.

[Tyson.5160]

@Ephemiel.5694 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@ROMANG.1903 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:I can see why the OP finds this annoying. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. We had tons of foreshadowing that Aurene operates on a different plane than we do. She's always shown up unexpectedly; she's always done surprising things.

Yea but she shouldn't be used as a Deus Ex Machina. Joko had won. How can I ever feel in danger when I know that Aurene can jump in from nowhere and eat people everytime I'm in a bad situation?

Except Aurene isn’t a Deus Ex Machina, she has been flying in and assisting us since episode 1 and is almost every single story instance since.

That's exactly why she's a Deus Ex Machina. She simply pops up whenever we happen to need her even if we had no idea where she was.

That’s not what that means. A Deus Ex Machina would instead of Aurene saving the day, it would be like if the Spirits if the Wild flew in and killed Joko, out of nowhere. Aurene was already established in the plot that she was assisting the war effort out in the battle, we saw her and she also has a mental connection/ visual connection with the Commander. Aurene is not a Deus Ex Machina.