>25K from stealth in an instant and go back to stealth instantly.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:The only change they need to make to DE is get rid of that stupid elite skill. Literally the only counter to perma stealth builds is to reveal them....oh wait, the DE can remove that reveal AND stealth at the same time, oh, and it's an ammo skill. Rework the elite or make it a 1 use skill on like a 120sec CD.

reveal on the current skills is only a threat in outnumbered fights for the deadeye especially if it is from an anti stealth trap as it is undodgeable and applies way too long reveal yet is not practical to use in 1 vs 1.builds that can burst me down 1 vs 1 in 6 seconds usually can do that in the 3 seconds aswell, as i wont just sit there and wait for the 6 seconds to be over, i still have evades, teleports and often am out of your range. to deal damage for 6 seconds my stunbreak has to be on cd and you need to stunlock me but in that case you could aswell deal 6 seconds long damage without a reveal skill just when i come out of stealth and am revealed.i am certain this proposed change of yours wouldnt change any 1 vs 1 fights and outnumbered fights can be avoided, i often go for them still as i too often still get kills, yet if shadow meld gets nerfed i might not really attack too large groups, they already need to be really stupid to let anyone die so i dont care if i cant go for them anymore.most reveals can be avoided alltogether and are more to extend stealth then to get the first hit on the stealthed. if i feel like it is too risky to weave stealth because there are like 3-4 oneshot builds around me that do not require a setup like some guard, FA ele, power mes then i already just remain stealthed and build malice with just marking. they wont run because they are so many they dont really risk a think and then i open straight with a oneshot backstab. so that would be what i would then have to do against more groups because weaving stealth would be riskier. wich would reduce counterplay to me actually because i will be even less visible.

i think what would help more is remove all reveal from skills as they are never picked normally for their reveal anyway and instead make CCing a stealthed player apply reveal for 3 seconds, allways with no cd for everyone. then when you see me dodge into stealth start channeling a cc => right out of stealth again.

So if reveals aren't good and not every class has reveal, why even run that elite? Why not run basilisk venom for an unblockable CC? Easily the best thief elite for any 1v1 scenario, since reveals aren't good any

i personally have 2 major reasons for it. 1 is anti stealth traps, i run daily into several of those. and the 2nd reason is for outnumbered fights. see people react to an enemy character often but not to just a dead ally. so if i see a group with a glass ele / thief / mesmer i like to oneshot them right away with a backstab a 1 malice backstab hits them for usually 17-20k if they are glass, then i use shadow meld, their allies especially when i am out their field of view or not fully loading like you see in the OPs video often wont react then so i get time to stomp, wich is one of the more difficult things for a deadeye. if you have cleave you can profit from downs and make a snowballeffect, i dont have cleave so i often need to stomp unless i downed a glass opponent with TRB spamm and still have a malice for a full charged DJ to finish them in downed.but yeah main reason is for anti stealth traps, thats the reason i started DE over DD to begin with. i can play both on stealth power and DD is in many aspects stronger, it can with elite stomp people without them having a downed state wich is really strong in outnumbered fights, yet a stealthy daredevil is way too vulnerable to anti stealth traps as 20 seconds are way too long, if that was 6 seconds that would be a different story, then it wouldnt be such an issue. because also as daredevil i did run into tons of anti stealth traps.

as vor BV its good but not really needed. i have as CC binding shadows wich is alot stronger CC and i dont need unblockable if i just wait till block ends. against warriors and mirages i rarely use CC and i feel like they are most of the opponents i run into, CC is pretty pointless against them and in case of warrior even stupid as i cant crit during balanced stance triggerd by last stand.

Exactly my point. Literally the only counter to stealth builds is things like reveal traps, and ANET gave thieves a counter to it, on a kitten ammo system no less, it's stupid. Gotta love your multiple paragraphs to my 3 sentence posts too defending your broken elite skill.

yeah but you dont seem to get my point. you wont use an anti stealth trap in a 1 vs 1 yet that is the main reason i need that skill.and yes i am against any pointless change in the game, because it wont change the complains one bit and will cause more and more nerfs till something is nerfed that has actual effect, yet at this point they dont really revert nerfs that didnt get the desired effect. you wont kill more deadeyes with such a change on your own and they certainly will not be more visible.as for the length of my answer i can also reply with 'your have no clue, your just bad', would be as constructive as you posts..

If nerfing the DE elite won't change anything, stop running it and prove that you can win just as many fights without the elite, since according to you it won't change anything.

why would i stop running it ? running without it is different then running with a nerfed version of it.designing the game around anti stealthtraps whos effect you cant remove would make deadeye with SA pretty pointless as my build for instance has 7/9 traitchoices affecting stealth. long periods of reveal is as onesided as oneshot out of nowhere. thats why deadeye needs more buildup for a oneshot then your class' oneshot build or a mesmers.using reveal and shadow meld is similar to using CC and stunbreak. 1 utility for another utility, yet there is no 20s knockdown trap that you cant dodge.

i maybe would consider using BV over it and possibly another stunbreak instead of binding shadows in a duel, where i dont have to expect an anti stealth trap, yet i dont really duel often.

The simple fact that a DE can run 2 specs that aren't centered around DPS and still deal massive amounts of DPS is stupid. If a scepter/focus weaver could run water/arcane/weaver and do comparable DPS to a FA weaver would be broken and insanely strong. But maybe you can help me out in fighting DE's. What can an ELe do to kill a DE running SA and Trickery, assuming he doesn't make any mistakes?

[bq pd.2148]

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:The only change they need to make to DE is get rid of that stupid elite skill. Literally the only counter to perma stealth builds is to reveal them....oh wait, the DE can remove that reveal AND stealth at the same time, oh, and it's an ammo skill. Rework the elite or make it a 1 use skill on like a 120sec CD.

reveal on the current skills is only a threat in outnumbered fights for the deadeye especially if it is from an anti stealth trap as it is undodgeable and applies way too long reveal yet is not practical to use in 1 vs 1.builds that can burst me down 1 vs 1 in 6 seconds usually can do that in the 3 seconds aswell, as i wont just sit there and wait for the 6 seconds to be over, i still have evades, teleports and often am out of your range. to deal damage for 6 seconds my stunbreak has to be on cd and you need to stunlock me but in that case you could aswell deal 6 seconds long damage without a reveal skill just when i come out of stealth and am revealed.i am certain this proposed change of yours wouldnt change any 1 vs 1 fights and outnumbered fights can be avoided, i often go for them still as i too often still get kills, yet if shadow meld gets nerfed i might not really attack too large groups, they already need to be really stupid to let anyone die so i dont care if i cant go for them anymore.most reveals can be avoided alltogether and are more to extend stealth then to get the first hit on the stealthed. if i feel like it is too risky to weave stealth because there are like 3-4 oneshot builds around me that do not require a setup like some guard, FA ele, power mes then i already just remain stealthed and build malice with just marking. they wont run because they are so many they dont really risk a think and then i open straight with a oneshot backstab. so that would be what i would then have to do against more groups because weaving stealth would be riskier. wich would reduce counterplay to me actually because i will be even less visible.

i think what would help more is remove all reveal from skills as they are never picked normally for their reveal anyway and instead make CCing a stealthed player apply reveal for 3 seconds, allways with no cd for everyone. then when you see me dodge into stealth start channeling a cc => right out of stealth again.

So if reveals aren't good and not every class has reveal, why even run that elite? Why not run basilisk venom for an unblockable CC? Easily the best thief elite for any 1v1 scenario, since reveals aren't good any

i personally have 2 major reasons for it. 1 is anti stealth traps, i run daily into several of those. and the 2nd reason is for outnumbered fights. see people react to an enemy character often but not to just a dead ally. so if i see a group with a glass ele / thief / mesmer i like to oneshot them right away with a backstab a 1 malice backstab hits them for usually 17-20k if they are glass, then i use shadow meld, their allies especially when i am out their field of view or not fully loading like you see in the OPs video often wont react then so i get time to stomp, wich is one of the more difficult things for a deadeye. if you have cleave you can profit from downs and make a snowballeffect, i dont have cleave so i often need to stomp unless i downed a glass opponent with TRB spamm and still have a malice for a full charged DJ to finish them in downed.but yeah main reason is for anti stealth traps, thats the reason i started DE over DD to begin with. i can play both on stealth power and DD is in many aspects stronger, it can with elite stomp people without them having a downed state wich is really strong in outnumbered fights, yet a stealthy daredevil is way too vulnerable to anti stealth traps as 20 seconds are way too long, if that was 6 seconds that would be a different story, then it wouldnt be such an issue. because also as daredevil i did run into tons of anti stealth traps.

as vor BV its good but not really needed. i have as CC binding shadows wich is alot stronger CC and i dont need unblockable if i just wait till block ends. against warriors and mirages i rarely use CC and i feel like they are most of the opponents i run into, CC is pretty pointless against them and in case of warrior even stupid as i cant crit during balanced stance triggerd by last stand.

Exactly my point. Literally the only counter to stealth builds is things like reveal traps, and ANET gave thieves a counter to it, on a kitten ammo system no less, it's stupid. Gotta love your multiple paragraphs to my 3 sentence posts too defending your broken elite skill.

yeah but you dont seem to get my point. you wont use an anti stealth trap in a 1 vs 1 yet that is the main reason i need that skill.and yes i am against any pointless change in the game, because it wont change the complains one bit and will cause more and more nerfs till something is nerfed that has actual effect, yet at this point they dont really revert nerfs that didnt get the desired effect. you wont kill more deadeyes with such a change on your own and they certainly will not be more visible.as for the length of my answer i can also reply with 'your have no clue, your just bad', would be as constructive as you posts..

If nerfing the DE elite won't change anything, stop running it and prove that you can win just as many fights without the elite, since according to you it won't change anything.

why would i stop running it ? running without it is different then running with a nerfed version of it.designing the game around anti stealthtraps whos effect you cant remove would make deadeye with SA pretty pointless as my build for instance has 7/9 traitchoices affecting stealth. long periods of reveal is as onesided as oneshot out of nowhere. thats why deadeye needs more buildup for a oneshot then your class' oneshot build or a mesmers.using reveal and shadow meld is similar to using CC and stunbreak. 1 utility for another utility, yet there is no 20s knockdown trap that you cant dodge.

i maybe would consider using BV over it and possibly another stunbreak instead of binding shadows in a duel, where i dont have to expect an anti stealth trap, yet i dont really duel often.

The simple fact that a DE can run 2 specs that aren't centered around DPS and still deal massive amounts of DPS is stupid. If a scepter/focus weaver could run water/arcane/weaver and do comparable DPS to a FA weaver would be broken and insanely strong. But maybe you can help me out in fighting DE's. What can an ELe do to kill a DE running SA and Trickery, assuming he doesn't make any mistakes?

why would the DE run Trickery with SA? you will have a hard time oneshotting an ele with trickery + SA and wont be able to kill more defensive builds like some sword weavers or heal tempest with that at all. and trickery is not that good on a deadeye it is steal focused but the use of mark is different then the use of steal, you have to use it at the beggining of the fight and it has a cast time so the effects like boonrip/daze are easier avoided and often not when you really need them. with m7 you also dont need the extra ini.anyway assuming the deadeye can onehit the ele with a backstab.you could run a build specifially to fight a deadeye something like this.with this the deadeye cannot onehit you with his opener. no matter what he does no way to oneshot you while your on earth.so you basically wait on earth/air attunement first. when the deadeye appears if he is more then 900 units away us skill 4 while moving towards him and then use earthen synergy once in range. most deadeyes run 1 stun break that they now will use and you will respont with gale + earth skill 2. if they used shadow step they might teleport back again to their first position so you will use signet of earth here while swapping to fire wich will prevent them going in stealth by using silent scope as they cant dodge in standing rifle while immobilized( they wont be kneeling after the CC and they wont dodge the CC during reveal). they need to use their elite shadow meld now during that cast your already swapping to air/fire and plasma beam + lightning strike. this will kill most deadeyes.

if they are able to dodge after 2nd stunbreak into stealth because they also evaded your earth signet or break the immob with withdrawl* into stealth then just go to earth/air again and wait, then they either wont try again till their stun breaks etc are ready so your stuns are ready aswell for round 2 or they will try early hoping your stuns still be on cd then you will instead of stuns use skill 2 again wich will most likely be ready, swap to fire use obsidian flesh into air and plasma beam then. they still are reveald and wont dodge while revealed. ofc if earthen synergy / gale is just ready you may use them, they got lower cooldown then usual deadeye stunbreaks.in a oneshot battle you dont need heals so no need for water. arcane is good both offensive and defensivley but it doesnt protect from oneshot and the damage is overkill against a deadeye so not efficient.this build is ofc not optimal to fight other classes but it is a deadeyes nightmare. i would probably just ignore such an ele as the risk is way too high for the kill chance.

*most deadeyes i have encountered run hide in shadows and concealed defeat and not withdrawl/ shadows embrace like i do. so they are vulnerable to immob + damaging conditions alot more then i am.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:The only change they need to make to DE is get rid of that stupid elite skill. Literally the only counter to perma stealth builds is to reveal them....oh wait, the DE can remove that reveal AND stealth at the same time, oh, and it's an ammo skill. Rework the elite or make it a 1 use skill on like a 120sec CD.

reveal on the current skills is only a threat in outnumbered fights for the deadeye especially if it is from an anti stealth trap as it is undodgeable and applies way too long reveal yet is not practical to use in 1 vs 1.builds that can burst me down 1 vs 1 in 6 seconds usually can do that in the 3 seconds aswell, as i wont just sit there and wait for the 6 seconds to be over, i still have evades, teleports and often am out of your range. to deal damage for 6 seconds my stunbreak has to be on cd and you need to stunlock me but in that case you could aswell deal 6 seconds long damage without a reveal skill just when i come out of stealth and am revealed.i am certain this proposed change of yours wouldnt change any 1 vs 1 fights and outnumbered fights can be avoided, i often go for them still as i too often still get kills, yet if shadow meld gets nerfed i might not really attack too large groups, they already need to be really stupid to let anyone die so i dont care if i cant go for them anymore.most reveals can be avoided alltogether and are more to extend stealth then to get the first hit on the stealthed. if i feel like it is too risky to weave stealth because there are like 3-4 oneshot builds around me that do not require a setup like some guard, FA ele, power mes then i already just remain stealthed and build malice with just marking. they wont run because they are so many they dont really risk a think and then i open straight with a oneshot backstab. so that would be what i would then have to do against more groups because weaving stealth would be riskier. wich would reduce counterplay to me actually because i will be even less visible.

i think what would help more is remove all reveal from skills as they are never picked normally for their reveal anyway and instead make CCing a stealthed player apply reveal for 3 seconds, allways with no cd for everyone. then when you see me dodge into stealth start channeling a cc => right out of stealth again.

So if reveals aren't good and not every class has reveal, why even run that elite? Why not run basilisk venom for an unblockable CC? Easily the best thief elite for any 1v1 scenario, since reveals aren't good any

i personally have 2 major reasons for it. 1 is anti stealth traps, i run daily into several of those. and the 2nd reason is for outnumbered fights. see people react to an enemy character often but not to just a dead ally. so if i see a group with a glass ele / thief / mesmer i like to oneshot them right away with a backstab a 1 malice backstab hits them for usually 17-20k if they are glass, then i use shadow meld, their allies especially when i am out their field of view or not fully loading like you see in the OPs video often wont react then so i get time to stomp, wich is one of the more difficult things for a deadeye. if you have cleave you can profit from downs and make a snowballeffect, i dont have cleave so i often need to stomp unless i downed a glass opponent with TRB spamm and still have a malice for a full charged DJ to finish them in downed.but yeah main reason is for anti stealth traps, thats the reason i started DE over DD to begin with. i can play both on stealth power and DD is in many aspects stronger, it can with elite stomp people without them having a downed state wich is really strong in outnumbered fights, yet a stealthy daredevil is way too vulnerable to anti stealth traps as 20 seconds are way too long, if that was 6 seconds that would be a different story, then it wouldnt be such an issue. because also as daredevil i did run into tons of anti stealth traps.

as vor BV its good but not really needed. i have as CC binding shadows wich is alot stronger CC and i dont need unblockable if i just wait till block ends. against warriors and mirages i rarely use CC and i feel like they are most of the opponents i run into, CC is pretty pointless against them and in case of warrior even stupid as i cant crit during balanced stance triggerd by last stand.

Exactly my point. Literally the only counter to stealth builds is things like reveal traps, and ANET gave thieves a counter to it, on a kitten ammo system no less, it's stupid. Gotta love your multiple paragraphs to my 3 sentence posts too defending your broken elite skill.

yeah but you dont seem to get my point. you wont use an anti stealth trap in a 1 vs 1 yet that is the main reason i need that skill.and yes i am against any pointless change in the game, because it wont change the complains one bit and will cause more and more nerfs till something is nerfed that has actual effect, yet at this point they dont really revert nerfs that didnt get the desired effect. you wont kill more deadeyes with such a change on your own and they certainly will not be more visible.as for the length of my answer i can also reply with 'your have no clue, your just bad', would be as constructive as you posts..

If nerfing the DE elite won't change anything, stop running it and prove that you can win just as many fights without the elite, since according to you it won't change anything.

why would i stop running it ? running without it is different then running with a nerfed version of it.designing the game around anti stealthtraps whos effect you cant remove would make deadeye with SA pretty pointless as my build for instance has 7/9 traitchoices affecting stealth. long periods of reveal is as onesided as oneshot out of nowhere. thats why deadeye needs more buildup for a oneshot then your class' oneshot build or a mesmers.using reveal and shadow meld is similar to using CC and stunbreak. 1 utility for another utility, yet there is no 20s knockdown trap that you cant dodge.

i maybe would consider using BV over it and possibly another stunbreak instead of binding shadows in a duel, where i dont have to expect an anti stealth trap, yet i dont really duel often.

The simple fact that a DE can run 2 specs that aren't centered around DPS and still deal massive amounts of DPS is stupid. If a scepter/focus weaver could run water/arcane/weaver and do comparable DPS to a FA weaver would be broken and insanely strong. But maybe you can help me out in fighting DE's. What can an ELe do to kill a DE running SA and Trickery, assuming he doesn't make any mistakes?

why would the DE run Trickery with SA? you will have a hard time oneshotting an ele with trickery + SA and wont be able to kill more defensive builds like some sword weavers or heal tempest with that at all. and trickery is not that good on a deadeye it is steal focused but the use of mark is different then the use of steal, you have to use it at the beggining of the fight and it has a cast time so the effects like boonrip/daze are easier avoided and often not when you really need them. with m7 you also dont need the extra ini.anyway assuming the deadeye can onehit the ele with a backstab.you could run a build specifially to fight a deadeye something like

this

.with this the deadeye cannot onehit you with his opener. no matter what he does no way to oneshot you while your on earth.so you basically wait on earth/air attunement first. when the deadeye appears if he is more then 900 units away us skill 4 while moving towards him and then use earthen synergy once in range. most deadeyes run 1 stun break that they now will use and you will respont with gale + earth skill 2. if they used shadow step they might teleport back again to their first position so you will use signet of earth here while swapping to fire wich will prevent them going in stealth by using silent scope as they cant dodge in standing rifle while immobilized( they wont be kneeling after the CC and they wont dodge the CC during reveal). they need to use their elite shadow meld now during that cast your already swapping to air/fire and plasma beam + lightning strike. this will kill most deadeyes.

if they are able to dodge after 2nd stunbreak into stealth because they also evaded your earth signet or break the immob with withdrawl* into stealth then just go to earth/air again and wait, then they either wont try again till their stun breaks etc are ready so your stuns are ready aswell for round 2 or they will try early hoping your stuns still be on cd then you will instead of stuns use skill 2 again wich will most likely be ready, swap to fire use obsidian flesh into air and plasma beam then. they still are reveald and wont dodge while revealed. ofc if earthen synergy / gale is just ready you may use them, they got lower cooldown then usual deadeye stunbreaks.in a oneshot battle you dont need heals so no need for water. arcane is good both offensive and defensivley but it doesnt protect from oneshot and the damage is overkill against a deadeye so not efficient.this build is ofc not optimal to fight other classes but it is a deadeyes nightmare. i would probably just ignore such an ele as the risk is way too high for the kill chance.

*most deadeyes i have encountered run hide in shadows and concealed defeat and not withdrawl/ shadows embrace like i do. so they are vulnerable to immob + damaging conditions alot more then i am.

That is exactly what I try to avoid. Sure I can swap any specs and traits around to fight a condi mirage that just spams condis, then I can swap weapons and traits to fight a scourge, but you can't just swap your build around whenever you encounter a class that your build isn't spec'd to fight. Sure if I run earth instead of water I can mitigate a lot of damage from any class running a power build, but then I die before the fights starts if they are condi. I have to ask tho, if they are running shadow meld, why would they not want to dodge while revealed when they can just pop their elite to remove the reveal, then dodge?

[reddie.5861]

@Shining One.1635 said:

@Turk.5460 said:You mean the profession that

hard counters

Thieves?In what way do Rangers hard counter thieves? I'd like a build suggestion for Ranger that leads to dead thieves in the majority of encounters.

i play both, if i face a thief most of the time i win vs them.if i play thief i win vs most ranger also but a good played ranger will just wreck me.

thief doesnt have much Stab, after steal u can just pop your elite, i havent been 1 shotted by thief ever so this guy in video is just lucky person(the ranger for getting 1 banged) i guess :Danyway thief steals > pull your pet in > break stun > pop ur elite (dont know skill names but w/e) u got stab the thief might hide god knows who cares.u got ur signet still (id use bear) u got bear invul, u got 2 heals ur own and bear one.in my case i wont let thief stealth again with a smoke field so i knock him back then i use lb 2 then i switch to gs and i switch pet to that HoT ugly pet that knock down and flys around ur target like revs do.

when pet did that i pull it in and i do same but no thief actually gets that deep into combat lol.

if u play thief your self u will know rotations, most thiefs do same shit so its not hard to just sit back and relax and wait for him to strike if u can interupt that or sustain it and react fast enough ur gaining the upper hand simple as that.the thief might run off to reset and do it again but u got so many ways on soulbeast to prevent a massive burst on your ass when ur aware a thief is near.

if u have thief like in video just stand next to npc's or drop bunch of siege so his backstab will hit multiple targets (i dont even know if it works for backstab but i do it for thiefs cleave) which will lower his overall dmg also.

if u cant be arsed to wait after u dropped siege or standing next to npc's just port to keep and run else where.

[bq pd.2148]

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:The only change they need to make to DE is get rid of that stupid elite skill. Literally the only counter to perma stealth builds is to reveal them....oh wait, the DE can remove that reveal AND stealth at the same time, oh, and it's an ammo skill. Rework the elite or make it a 1 use skill on like a 120sec CD.

reveal on the current skills is only a threat in outnumbered fights for the deadeye especially if it is from an anti stealth trap as it is undodgeable and applies way too long reveal yet is not practical to use in 1 vs 1.builds that can burst me down 1 vs 1 in 6 seconds usually can do that in the 3 seconds aswell, as i wont just sit there and wait for the 6 seconds to be over, i still have evades, teleports and often am out of your range. to deal damage for 6 seconds my stunbreak has to be on cd and you need to stunlock me but in that case you could aswell deal 6 seconds long damage without a reveal skill just when i come out of stealth and am revealed.i am certain this proposed change of yours wouldnt change any 1 vs 1 fights and outnumbered fights can be avoided, i often go for them still as i too often still get kills, yet if shadow meld gets nerfed i might not really attack too large groups, they already need to be really stupid to let anyone die so i dont care if i cant go for them anymore.most reveals can be avoided alltogether and are more to extend stealth then to get the first hit on the stealthed. if i feel like it is too risky to weave stealth because there are like 3-4 oneshot builds around me that do not require a setup like some guard, FA ele, power mes then i already just remain stealthed and build malice with just marking. they wont run because they are so many they dont really risk a think and then i open straight with a oneshot backstab. so that would be what i would then have to do against more groups because weaving stealth would be riskier. wich would reduce counterplay to me actually because i will be even less visible.

i think what would help more is remove all reveal from skills as they are never picked normally for their reveal anyway and instead make CCing a stealthed player apply reveal for 3 seconds, allways with no cd for everyone. then when you see me dodge into stealth start channeling a cc => right out of stealth again.

So if reveals aren't good and not every class has reveal, why even run that elite? Why not run basilisk venom for an unblockable CC? Easily the best thief elite for any 1v1 scenario, since reveals aren't good any

i personally have 2 major reasons for it. 1 is anti stealth traps, i run daily into several of those. and the 2nd reason is for outnumbered fights. see people react to an enemy character often but not to just a dead ally. so if i see a group with a glass ele / thief / mesmer i like to oneshot them right away with a backstab a 1 malice backstab hits them for usually 17-20k if they are glass, then i use shadow meld, their allies especially when i am out their field of view or not fully loading like you see in the OPs video often wont react then so i get time to stomp, wich is one of the more difficult things for a deadeye. if you have cleave you can profit from downs and make a snowballeffect, i dont have cleave so i often need to stomp unless i downed a glass opponent with TRB spamm and still have a malice for a full charged DJ to finish them in downed.but yeah main reason is for anti stealth traps, thats the reason i started DE over DD to begin with. i can play both on stealth power and DD is in many aspects stronger, it can with elite stomp people without them having a downed state wich is really strong in outnumbered fights, yet a stealthy daredevil is way too vulnerable to anti stealth traps as 20 seconds are way too long, if that was 6 seconds that would be a different story, then it wouldnt be such an issue. because also as daredevil i did run into tons of anti stealth traps.

as vor BV its good but not really needed. i have as CC binding shadows wich is alot stronger CC and i dont need unblockable if i just wait till block ends. against warriors and mirages i rarely use CC and i feel like they are most of the opponents i run into, CC is pretty pointless against them and in case of warrior even stupid as i cant crit during balanced stance triggerd by last stand.

Exactly my point. Literally the only counter to stealth builds is things like reveal traps, and ANET gave thieves a counter to it, on a kitten ammo system no less, it's stupid. Gotta love your multiple paragraphs to my 3 sentence posts too defending your broken elite skill.

yeah but you dont seem to get my point. you wont use an anti stealth trap in a 1 vs 1 yet that is the main reason i need that skill.and yes i am against any pointless change in the game, because it wont change the complains one bit and will cause more and more nerfs till something is nerfed that has actual effect, yet at this point they dont really revert nerfs that didnt get the desired effect. you wont kill more deadeyes with such a change on your own and they certainly will not be more visible.as for the length of my answer i can also reply with 'your have no clue, your just bad', would be as constructive as you posts..

If nerfing the DE elite won't change anything, stop running it and prove that you can win just as many fights without the elite, since according to you it won't change anything.

why would i stop running it ? running without it is different then running with a nerfed version of it.designing the game around anti stealthtraps whos effect you cant remove would make deadeye with SA pretty pointless as my build for instance has 7/9 traitchoices affecting stealth. long periods of reveal is as onesided as oneshot out of nowhere. thats why deadeye needs more buildup for a oneshot then your class' oneshot build or a mesmers.using reveal and shadow meld is similar to using CC and stunbreak. 1 utility for another utility, yet there is no 20s knockdown trap that you cant dodge.

i maybe would consider using BV over it and possibly another stunbreak instead of binding shadows in a duel, where i dont have to expect an anti stealth trap, yet i dont really duel often.

The simple fact that a DE can run 2 specs that aren't centered around DPS and still deal massive amounts of DPS is stupid. If a scepter/focus weaver could run water/arcane/weaver and do comparable DPS to a FA weaver would be broken and insanely strong. But maybe you can help me out in fighting DE's. What can an ELe do to kill a DE running SA and Trickery, assuming he doesn't make any mistakes?

why would the DE run Trickery with SA? you will have a hard time oneshotting an ele with trickery + SA and wont be able to kill more defensive builds like some sword weavers or heal tempest with that at all. and trickery is not that good on a deadeye it is steal focused but the use of mark is different then the use of steal, you have to use it at the beggining of the fight and it has a cast time so the effects like boonrip/daze are easier avoided and often not when you really need them. with m7 you also dont need the extra ini.anyway assuming the deadeye can onehit the ele with a backstab.you could run a build specifially to fight a deadeye something like

this

.with this the deadeye cannot onehit you with his opener. no matter what he does no way to oneshot you while your on earth.so you basically wait on earth/air attunement first. when the deadeye appears if he is more then 900 units away us skill 4 while moving towards him and then use earthen synergy once in range. most deadeyes run 1 stun break that they now will use and you will respont with gale + earth skill 2. if they used shadow step they might teleport back again to their first position so you will use signet of earth here while swapping to fire wich will prevent them going in stealth by using silent scope as they cant dodge in standing rifle while immobilized( they wont be kneeling after the CC and they wont dodge the CC during reveal). they need to use their elite shadow meld now during that cast your already swapping to air/fire and plasma beam + lightning strike. this will kill most deadeyes.

if they are able to dodge after 2nd stunbreak into stealth because they also evaded your earth signet or break the immob with withdrawl* into stealth then just go to earth/air again and wait, then they either wont try again till their stun breaks etc are ready so your stuns are ready aswell for round 2 or they will try early hoping your stuns still be on cd then you will instead of stuns use skill 2 again wich will most likely be ready, swap to fire use obsidian flesh into air and plasma beam then. they still are reveald and wont dodge while revealed. ofc if earthen synergy / gale is just ready you may use them, they got lower cooldown then usual deadeye stunbreaks.in a oneshot battle you dont need heals so no need for water. arcane is good both offensive and defensivley but it doesnt protect from oneshot and the damage is overkill against a deadeye so not efficient.this build is ofc not optimal to fight other classes but it is a deadeyes nightmare. i would probably just ignore such an ele as the risk is way too high for the kill chance.

*most deadeyes i have encountered run hide in shadows and concealed defeat and not withdrawl/ shadows embrace like i do. so they are vulnerable to immob + damaging conditions alot more then i am.

That is exactly what I try to avoid. Sure I can swap any specs and traits around to fight a condi mirage that just spams condis, then I can swap weapons and traits to fight a scourge, but you can't just swap your build around whenever you encounter a class that your build isn't spec'd to fight. Sure if I run earth instead of water I can mitigate a lot of damage from any class running a power build, but then I die before the fights starts if they are condi. I have to ask tho, if they are running shadow meld, why would they not want to dodge while revealed when they can just pop their elite to remove the reveal, then dodge?

thats simple, if you going to hit them with something dangerous then them using their elite = not dodging. that elite has a cast time after all, a casttime long enough to get interrupt if there is a CC comming, a cast time long enough to die if there is a burst comming.

as for having to change a build that is exactly what i said above if you want to kill the deadeye you need a complete different build to increase your chance. but your ususal build is mostly enough to just avoid dying to them, move ahead and ignore them. if you run any build with arcane you can give yourself protection, wich is enough to survive a low malice backstab and move along. it is not enough to survive a max malice backstab and it is not permaprotection so you cant stay to fight. changing your build to fight them is not efficient as long as you dont run into them all day.in the first 2 years of gw2 i roamed alot on a mesmer without any condi cleanse. that was oke because nearly everyone was playing power. then inbetween there was this one dude playing condi and well not prepared for it, i was able to die to a single steal of a condi thief. you were able to farm alot of people on condi builds. one of my first builds was a condi evade thief, i played it 2 days and then some stuff changed so i stopped playing it .. but those 2 days. when dire gear was new wich was also rather early in the game i tried a mesmer that had a ton of condi damage but the build only applied confusion + torment on block, confusion didnt deal damage unless you did something back then. so basically dont fight, move along and you survive it. well very few people did that, thats just not what people will do. now why during all that time condi was sooo hated? not because it was actually strong, but becaue only soo few people did play it that it wasnt worth bringing a condi remove mostly, then if you did run into a condi player you couldnt do much. you could change your build and come back but then you might face someone else and have a weaker build then usual. that is basically what deadeye is , it is too different. giving now every class an anti stealth trap and removing shadow meld is not the solution, we also didnt get a universal and strong condi remove back in the days so we dont have to bring one. but i doubt many classes will be able to be played stealth heavy like that in the future so it wont be the same it was with condi builds, deadeye will keep this position. unless they change like half the thief traits ..so an overall core thief rework, wich is long overdue. if i dont like thief anymore after such a rework ill finally have a reason to play ranger. i personally think that ranger is the strongest class in a fight in roaming yet thief is better in roaming because the ability to pick fights is more important then being strong in the fight, thief is just best in picking fights. so i dont really care whats happening to thief/deadeye but i still would like the changes to be reasonable and be in a way that promotes a fight, even if i have to specifially build for it not in a way that will make the fight allways onesided depending on build/trap.

[Synstylae.2751]

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

[bq pd.2148]

@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

i did use DJ. not in what you see in the video but a few seconds before that video starts. well atleast i tried to but i failed, probably because i still did hold a movement key while using DJ in kneel. this causes a bug so you get revealed but no DJ.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

my point is just that he didnt put up all the fight, because he had the chance to fight back earlier in the fight but he didnt show you were i was sitting several seconds just there pew pewing.. without showing that it looks like he really had no moment he could fight back.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:i cannot stealth instantly when revealed i have to use a skill with a cast time. the reveal is long enough for you to kill me with auto attacks so it would have been better to use AA and knockback once i try to use shadow meld, followed by a burst.

In all fairness (not siding with anyone as I mained thief for years), however using this as your argument isnt going to work. Its only a .5 sec cast time which its only "long enough for you to kill me with auto attacks so it would have been better to use AA and knock-back once i try to use shadow meld, followed by a burst" if they are expecting you to get revealed. If they are not expecting it (thus readying their burst), this point is moot.

While I called ghost stealth sniper was going to be a thing a looooog time ago (to which a guildie still owes me gold for a bet), it is annoying af to fight against. Its actually more toxic than the old condi ghost thief (which I played for trolls) as the condi one could be mitigated with cleanses and where it was melee based for the most part, things like traps and personal AoE's were a major counter whereas ghost sniper doesnt need to go ranged and has an unblockable attack.

imo id DJ wasnt unblockable (but still revealed), it wouldnt be AS bad as it slightly would bring more counter play , however shadow meld is what makes the ghost build most unbalanced as the stealth traps was one of the biggest ways to counter thief, now it makes me laugh when I see people using the traps against them.

That being said, for the Ranger, a properly times sic em followed by a QZ and a LB burst can hurt (and may even down if the DE isnt fast enough to react), however as mentioned, the reveal must be anticipated as not even reflects and blocks work well vs the ghost sniper. Most ghost DE's run SA so even condi-ing them down isnt much of an option.

I was able to beat one with a LOT of patience and timing and managed to beat it

Two of my guildies calls the ghost sniper builds the "cowards build". Whether I agree or not is a different story, however I haven't heard that term in a build since the old ghost thief (which took anet forever to nerf).

Anywho, thats just my 2 copper pieces

[bq pd.2148]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

my point is just that he didnt put up all the fight, because he had the chance to fight back earlier in the fight but he didnt show you were i was sitting several seconds just there pew pewing.. without showing that it looks like he really had no moment he could fight back.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:i cannot stealth instantly when revealed i have to use a skill with a cast time. the reveal is long enough for you to kill me with auto attacks so it would have been better to use AA and knockback once i try to use shadow meld, followed by a burst.

In all fairness (not siding with anyone as I mained thief for years), however using this as your argument isnt going to work. Its only a .5 sec cast time which its only "long enough for you to kill me with auto attacks so it would have been better to use AA and knock-back once i try to use shadow meld, followed by a burst" if they are expecting you to get revealed. If they are not expecting it (thus readying their burst), this point is moot.

i dont really understand this point. he used sic em and right away rapidfire, but he is a rather tanky soulbeast and not glass so i was able to face tank a bit of his rapidfire while i used shadow meld. i said after that sic em, wich he is probably expecting to reveal as he is using it, he should try to AA and wait to interrupt my shadow meld. as tanky as he was he might not have killed me alone with AA but he was not alone , the holo was rather close when i got revealed by sic em. so keeping me visible would have been alot better then trying to burst right away. he can use rapidfire towards the end still if he feels like it but he didnt use all the 6 seconds of reveal. and half a second is long enough to interrupt.

While I called ghost stealth sniper was going to be a thing a looooog time ago (to which a guildie still owes me gold for a bet), it is annoying af to fight against. Its actually more toxic than the old condi ghost thief (which I played for trolls) as the condi one could be mitigated with cleanses and where it was melee based for the most part, things like traps and personal AoE's were a major counter whereas ghost sniper doesnt need to go ranged and has an unblockable attack.

imo id DJ wasnt unblockable (but still revealed), it wouldnt be AS bad as it slightly would bring more counter play , however shadow meld is what makes the ghost build most unbalanced as the stealth traps was one of the biggest ways to counter thief, now it makes me laugh when I see people using the traps against them.

the problem is those traps still dont make it a fight they just turn an encounter that is onsided to another onesided encounter and they are pretty much not usable in 1 vs 1 only if you outnumber the thief in wich case you already have a major advantage, very stupid design. they should have been replaced with a more handy trick long ago. for example range projectile AoE like siegedisabler but cheaper: 1200 range, 300 radius , 6s reveal , 35s cooldown, 1-2 supply cost. both the one fighting the deadeye and the deadeye would profit from it. the deadeye because he can dodge it and is not totally screwed if he cant cleanse it and the one fighting angainst him because it is way easier to apply to the deadeye even in a 1 vs 1. the traps just make a deadeye remain in stealth if he has no charge left and has to expect traps that wont cause an end to the fight it will just lengthen it, nefs to shadowmelds ammo or cd will further increase this wait. completely removing shadow meld or its fuction to cleanse revealed while leaving the traps like they are would again make playing SA in any form pointless as any one would counter it too hard with 0 investment into the build for it. this would further increase the need for a core thief rework, not sure anet is willing to do that soon.Two of my guildies calls the ghost sniper builds the "cowards build". Whether I agree or not is a different story, however I haven't heard that term in a build since the old ghost thief (which took anet forever to nerf).well i have been called a coward alot usually by people fighting me 5+ vs 1. superior numbers is the biggest cheese in the game and heavily abused by 'skilled' roaming guilds. they will jump a decent solo roamer as a group no matter his build and fight unorganised pug groups, that is really being a coward but i dont mind them i just ignore them or troll them a little.

[Lemoncurry.2345]

Don't blame a player for using a build which gives him the most advantages for his preferred style of gaming (here: WvW solo-roaming). Why playing a game with self-imposed rules (e.g. no condis, no stealth, no passives etc.) is a fallacy, is very well explained here.

It should be the developer's job to create mechanics where fights are fun for all participants. And while GW2 combat system is quite good per se, a few aspects are seriously unfun. Fighting a stealth heavy build like a Deadeye is one of them. He is completely in control of the combat-pace. And even when your reflexes are good - server and client latency and general lag in WvW also come into play when you have to counter those quick bursts of damage out of stealth. Not all classes have reveal skills, the reveal trap is a clumsy crutch and the DE can remove revealed anyway with his elite. Sorry, running away as a "counter" is not fun.

Stealth is not very relevant in PvE and balanced in SPvP due to the point cap mechanic. In zerg-fighting a DE is of no use (other than the frowned upon pin sniping) - you only see veil-bot mesmers. And small-scale WvW is very low on Arenanet's balance list (if it's on that list at all). Since major remodeling of the stealth mechanic requires a complete overhaul of thief (and mesmer) I doubt that we will see significant changes in the game's lifetime.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

Have you tried to fight a holo as a thief?

[Xenash.1245]

This whole back and forth boasting about how one class is so much better then the other while trying to defend whatever class you like seems if you don't mind me saying very stupid to me. Anyway yes it sucks that you got bursted from stealth by a deadeye but I wouldn't really say anything that the deadeye has is really overturned in this sense. Rather I'd say this is just a fault from the developers when it comes to fighting a stealth class in a general wvw encounter and the counterplay available to the player in question.

[Arimas.3492]

All I'm getting from this thread is that burst is too high. Stealth is a cool mechanic and I don't think having an elite that can remove reveal is OP but being that due to power creep armor means nothing anymore its an overpowered combination. Game's numbers balance needs the wall rebuilt not another coat of paint slapped on it.

Same thing with conditions and all of the counter changes. Conditions are very powerful we need more cleanse, instead we get more conversion to boons making the already existing boon corruption even worse. It's basically a swinging pendulum of balance.

[bq pd.2148]

@Arimas.3492 said:All I'm getting from this thread is that burst is too high. Stealth is a cool mechanic and I don't think having an elite that can remove reveal is OP but being that due to power creep armor means nothing anymore its an overpowered combination. Game's numbers balance needs the wall rebuilt not another coat of paint slapped on it.

Same thing with conditions and all of the counter changes. Conditions are very powerful we need more cleanse, instead we get more conversion to boons making the already existing boon corruption even worse. It's basically a swinging pendulum of balance.

damage being too high is not the core of the issue. the issue we have is that our build system is not restrictive enough, wich will lead to more and more extreme builds with maybe just a little gimmick to cover the weakness. so people now are either tanky and use temporary damage boosts like sic em to still deal decent damage during their burst or play very offensive and use 1-2 get out of here options to reset. nerfing damage to stop instant kills will just create a bunker meta with nearly endless fights. you wont get anything in between with just changing damage.lets say you have offensive , balanced and defensive builds , then fights should be fast between 2 offensive , long between 2 defensive builds and of moderate duration between everything else. but the more extreme builds can get, it will change to offensive builds can oneshot offensive and moderate builds and rather quickly kill defensive ones, defensive ones cant kill anyone anymore and are only killable by very offensive players, people who build rather balanced will get oneshot by offensive ones and cant kill bunkers, so they are inefficient. if builds are more restricted forcing the player to invest a minimum degree into defense and offense ( there can be a wide choice for the nature of the defensive and offensive options, the important thing is the need to invest into it) , then there wont be too extreme builds , a rather moderate TTK and most builds will be able to fight any other build.

[Rezzet.3614]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

Have you tried to fight a holo as a thief?

and they are stupid easy to kill for me because i was an engineer main so i know their every move

[Scar.1793]

I just had to login and reply to this thread.

Reminds me a lot of the days in WoW when rogues could simply stealth, ambush and the target was dead or almost dead and needed a simple auto-attack to finish the job. If by some miracle the target is alive : perma cc. If somehow you can’t kill : vanish !

I know it’s been like that in gw2 for ages but really ? Got 16k hp on my rev and even then I can get 1-2shots out of nowhere. It doesn’t even make me rage as I just find it beyond silly in a PvP mode to allow that kind of crap. It’s hard to counter. Literally 90% of the thieves can do that, yet a lot of them brand that as skilled ? kek these guys are in for a hard wake up day once they play real pvp games.

Only way to survive is either to use Glint’s heal if I had it prepared already (always do now because of that), blind or shiro dodge. Very often the time needed to simply press the skill is not enough and I’m down. If they flee most classes can’t chase them with their shortbow 5. Sometimes I can get them with shiro’s TP and a hammer AA but it requires far more resource compared to a thief who will just reset the fight and do that 100-0 again without a sweat. I just can’t imagine how awful it can be on other classes with less defense mechanics.

I can understand why you would defend that gameplay ( can I really call that gameplay when killing opponents in less than 1-2sec and having easy escapes when it doesn’t go your way?). I did that when playing rogue in WoW when Blizzard started to gut the perma CCs and decrease the crazy damage in pvp. But really if you just think about it, getting rid of silly crap like that is only healthy for the game.

No wonder Anet failed by trying to bring GW2 into the competitive scene and Esport if you let that kind of stuff for ages in your game.

[Scar.1793]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

the ability to put all what you have said in one build :)

Daggers or P/D for burst and gap closer (P/D 3)

Easy cheesy stomps with dagger 5

Shortbow 5 into infinity, not even counting the stealth/TP utilities if by the grace of Jesus someone managed to chase you until you had no more initiative

Can have 3 endurance bar

I mean come on, get serious.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Turk.5460 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

Basically that's all the malice build up. I just uploaded right from i got tagged. The problem is not the damage itself (he was probably full zerk) but the fact it does with no counterplay: stealth -> kill 100-0 -> stealth back while stomping.

Incorrect. A hit that high requires much more time in stealth

or

the Thief to have shown himself and damaged you - where you would have had the opportunity to counter-pressure. If it was all from stealth, then that was entirely your fault for not just...moving away until the circle over your head went away. That build doesn't use Infiltrator's signet to backstab/port so as long as you are 900 units away from the Thief then you have successfully countered the stealth-backstab.

and how do you move away from a target you can't see? in roughly 50% of tries you will move towards it.... and there is no indicator to tell you in which direction you should move.

Face it, thief and their stealth is totally broken. Has been broken for ages.

And people complain about meteor shower, which has a long casting time, a casting animation seen across the map, a big circle on the ground and is as such easily avoidable.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

@Scar.1793 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

the ability to put all what you have said in one build :)

Daggers or P/D for burst and gap closer (P/D 3)

Easy cheesy stomps with dagger 5

Shortbow 5 into infinity, not even counting the stealth/TP utilities if by the grace of Jesus someone managed to chase you until you had no more initiative

Can have 3 endurance bar

I mean come on, get serious.

He mains a thief. He can't get serious :(

[bq pd.2148]

@Scar.1793 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

the ability to put all what you have said in one build :)

Daggers or P/D for burst and gap closer (P/D 3)

Easy cheesy stomps with dagger 5

Shortbow 5 into infinity, not even counting the stealth/TP utilities if by the grace of Jesus someone managed to chase you until you had no more initiative

Can have 3 endurance bar

I mean come on, get serious.

i am serious, you cant put it all in one build what the person mentioned i did reply to.

as for your other post it appears you have just watched the video and didnt read to much. those are 30 seconds and the total fight was around 1,5 min and most of my hits are not visible in the video other then in the battle log. dying in less then 1-2 seconds is unfortunate but that was not out of nowhere in this case. there are many builds in this game that can oneshot, deadeye when using a max malice backstab like in the video has the longest interactive setup(cant hide the setup as it requires multiple interactions with the opponent each with tells and therefor opportunity to react) of them all, a deadeyes oneshot with a MAX malice backstab is never out of nowhere, some build i can onehit without malice or with 1 malice, glassy builds - that is out of nowhere, yet they could do the exact same to me.i wouldnt say it requires skill as most people count into skill only dexterity, the ability to flawlessly execute certain moves, to react fast etc. so if i would say it requires skill without defining skill first, that would end in a long debate. i personally think skill is everything you can utilize to win. but here comes the big issue regarding skill in WvW. who actually plays WvW as it is designed? to win the matchup. who plays with really the main focus on getting as much victory points as possible? sure we all do things that give us warscore but do we do that for the fun in doing so or because we want to win a match? in theory you would have to say a skilled WvW player is someone who has its main goal to win the match not a singular fight or a certain structure, no the match. in reality everyone kind of plays a different game. some of us just want a GoB, others want to secure the home border, because you know they allways do his and thats their game, in roaming many try to impress themselves/allies and/or opponents with the way they fight their opponent or with what they define as 'skill', their image of skill includes restricting rules, they wont play what they or maybe other think as cheap or unfair. thats all nice but that is their game. in their game i am a terrible player usually playing super cheap and unfair. they often feel the need to tell me and others about my terrible performance assuming everyone is playing their game. i am not. figuring that it is pretty pointless trying to win a game that noone is playing (weekly Match) i pick several opponents, assume their game and challange them in their game by not obeying to their rules. if i see someone very sure of his ability to win fights, i will kill him by suprise and will try to risk very little so it is a challange for him to prove himself that he wins fights. if i see someone that is proud of his 'skill' , then i will try to kill him in a way that he know he could have avoided ( i often will try to kill those with a Deaths Judgement, because that skill has a huge tell and only noobs wond dodge it right?). if i see an opponent who tries to keep a camp / tower / keep i will contest it, not because i want it, but because my opponent wants to keep it. if an opponent keeps attacking a structure i will defend it ferociously. you get the idea i guess. i especially enjoy seeing people improve over the course of a week, i force them to adapt and rarely but still happens i can even learn from that as they might use options i wasnt aware of. i understand why many opponents hate me, i am pushing the limits of many after all. and it saddens me to see people that fail to improve because they reached the limit of their own ruleset, yet are not willing to loosen it.but lets talk more about the 'skill' of winning fights. knowlege about the game and its mechanics are very important no matter what you play, there is no build that will carry people that do not understand how the build functions and what their opponents can do. ofc you dont have to know what your opponent can do, if they dont do what they could do. aside from knowlege you need dexterity, the ability to execute what your build can do at the given time. for many this dexterity is the main or even only factor of skill, some builds like the deadeye build i used in the video do not require much dexterity and cannot utilize it, thats why they are often cheesy or noskill builds. but knowledge and dexterity are maybe not even half of what you can utilize to win. the more experienced both players are, the more important it becomes to fight the player not his character. manipulating his decision making by abusing his habits that you know from experience, observing and guessing, lets you predict what he will do. you dont need much dexterity if you know what your opponent will do. the envoirement and the context of the fight can be a great help for this. most opponents are easier to kill whith higher blood pressure, if you anger, annoy and taunt them. you dont have to go as far as to insult them in whisper, small actions are often of greater effect like letting them bleed out if they use a skill to stop you from stomping, showing them that you dont care about how they die. anyway there is alot more you can utilize to win a fight, not just how many keys you press per second, what keeps most from winnig or from winning more often tho are rules they restrict themselves with, rules that are not part of the actual game, only in their own version of the game.

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@Scar.1793 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:I don't get why you are all mad about a professions spec actually doing what it was meant to do. Thiefs are bursty regardless.

Bursty, best mobility in the game, enough stealth spam to reach Ukraine, gap closers with no CD, ports with no CD while the rest have em on ~30sec+ CD, evade spam. What exactly are they missing?

the ability to put all what you have said in one build :)

Daggers or P/D for burst and gap closer (P/D 3)

Easy cheesy stomps with dagger 5

Shortbow 5 into infinity, not even counting the stealth/TP utilities if by the grace of Jesus someone managed to chase you until you had no more initiative

Can have 3 endurance bar

I mean come on, get serious.

He mains a thief. He can't get serious :(

you are the one letting your emotions about past fights let you exaggerate instead of discussing the matter seriously.

[archmagus.7249]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

Have you tried to fight a holo as a thief?

Provided the Holo has lock on traited, the thief won't stand a chance. 6s of reveal and 10s of vulnerability for 8s on hard cc without a cooldown.

[bq pd.2148]

@archmagus.7249 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@Synstylae.2751 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

not really i was the thief and before i shot you from durios side , with that i build up my malice. you can even see that in your battle log. there you had the chance to fight back. not showing that clearly manipulates the viewers of this post.i was not full zerk btw.

Sure you were the one, just to check in, what happened right before the video?

you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

the argument remains though you're still basically being perma stealthed and one shotting people

their only options were to pop up invulnerability if your DJ left them alive and try heal only to get one shot againreveal means nothing for deadeye thanks to the elite stealth that removes revealed

gotta love how one shot also is Unblockable

Are you stupid? He didint even use DJ, he used MB, which is blockable unless you are running basilisk venom and deadeyes dont use it. In any case, complaining about DJ is also stupid, it can be evaded without a problem if you have eyes and ears. If you have no idea what the conversation is about, dont join in.

yeah i dint mentioned the thief using DJ again in the discussion for that reason however, i'd say the ones full of ignorance would be guys like you , i dint pay attention to the first skill used but the argument remains there was a counter window of a whopping 0.2/s

so yeah in a best scenario ranger would've popped up signet of stone invuln and sic em then maybe a 4 to cc the thief and rapid fire them , would ve done about 50% damage thief would ve re entered stealth and just finished the ranger off

in a better but more realistic scenario ranger does everything as above but thief uses stunbreak and reveal remove stealth elite and BS+finish ranger

alternatively the same as above for ranger but holo jumps in and shockwaves with the trait that reveals stealthed enemies hit , thief uses his second charge of reveal remove stealth, downs ranger, holo tries rezzing ranger and gets killed and ranger gets finished or holo attacks over ranger and gets BS anyways

and this has been a problem with the thief class since launch , perma stealth has to go and/or thief needs a major damage nerf on its 1 but have its other skills improved

the problem with thief has always been the same issues stealth and insane auto attack damage

Have you tried to fight a holo as a thief?

Provided the Holo has lock on traited, the thief won't stand a chance. 6s of reveal and 10s of vulnerability for 8s on hard cc without a cooldown.

both applications of reveal : hit while stealthed or hard cc have seperate 20s ICD. in the OPs example it would have indeed caused enough pressure to easily safe the ranger, not to kill me as i had both shadow meld and as you can see shadowstep ready, i used stealthed shadow step early to avoid being hit by lock on to begin with. yet the holo did not have lock on as i have figuered shortly before he died.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:you two captured the camp i was a little too slow, actually you took the camp the holo did just leech he came at the end from the ogres. then i knocked you down from stealth, placed a snipers cover and shot some TRB. your shots and the ones from your mate mostly got into that snipers cover. then i retreated back into stealth i wanted to oneshot you first with a DJ but messed up and knocked you down + just one AA instead of DJ, retreated back in stealth evading your holo and got ready for the backstab.after this i did the same with your holo mate and onehit him with a little over 24k next to the quatermaster. want a screenshot of my character aswell?

Ok you are the one, welcome.

@"Les.4872" said:Now kisssss!

I'm sorry but after reading Les's comment I can only think of this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIMHKjHKoJM

[bq pd.2148]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

Basically that's all the malice build up. I just uploaded right from i got tagged. The problem is not the damage itself (he was probably full zerk) but the fact it does with no counterplay: stealth -> kill 100-0 -> stealth back while stomping.

Incorrect. A hit that high requires much more time in stealth

or

the Thief to have shown himself and damaged you - where you would have had the opportunity to counter-pressure. If it was all from stealth, then that was entirely your fault for not just...moving away until the circle over your head went away. That build doesn't use Infiltrator's signet to backstab/port so as long as you are 900 units away from the Thief then you have successfully countered the stealth-backstab.

and how do you move away from a target you can't see? in roughly 50% of tries you will move towards it.... and there is no indicator to tell you in which direction you should move.

i wasnt allways in stealth so he knew wich direction i was. if he runs to the opposite he will hardly run into me. now i can also kill people without ever being visible till the backstab. with that build it would take 153seconds to build 7 malice with that method. to build malice i need to mark for wich i have to be in 1500 range. in that time you cannot just cross half the map and certainly into the next structure, but it also wouldnt matter wich direction you move to if your sustained speed is higher then the thieves. keep moving while remaining in stealth slows the thief down and wastes alot of resources on inefficient stealth stacking wich either forces him out of stealth or out of mark range => you got away or are able to counterpressure him while he has no ini or endurance up, maybe not even a stunbreak if he used it to chase. moving around a corner in the right time could force the thief to be alot closer to you then 1500 range for a mark as it requires LoS, if mark drops malice is gone , another 153 seconds or a visible thief if he is impatient.before you answer think about this:while i promote playing to win, it is on first sight pretty stupid to explain all day in the forums how my build functions the limits of its strengths and its weaknesses, my opponents could use it to defead me. yet with this community, nobody is reading it as information. most just read it as a 'biased thief trying to defend his broken stuff' this leads to people who think what i do doesnt require skill or is unfair to solidify this opinion, putting them further away from being able to fight it.now is this stupid of me telling you this or just a try to manipulate you? :3