Do we need more drama?

[Haco.1546]

To me the answer is yes. I love to cry, to be emotional, to be with a dramatic scene of death, farewell or even love. We already have humor, now we need drama.

[Ephemiel.5694]

Well, we had the perfect character for that with a big backstory thanks to GW1, along with one of the best first episodes so far where he kidnaps Taimi and we hear her screaming and freaking out [seriously, the story in this Episode was perfect cause it truly made you think that he was going to do horrible things to her], buuuuuuuuuuuut they decided to bust out Aurene's digestive system and eat him alive.

Really ANet, stop adding interesting characters just to do nothing and kill them off. Elder Dragons may be the main driving force of the game, but they're boring with next to no motivations, especially when you added the twist of "we can't kill them anymore".

[MisterCheshire.4029]

Yes. Next question.

[ugrakarma.9416]

It depends on what kind of drama, since im not big fan of soap operas, neither the new generation of american TV series, ofc my aswear to most kind of dramas is no. The childishness was already on the red line.Thank God that Aurene has grown up and is now a deadly weapon, we had enough of care bears..

[ugrakarma.9416]

what kind of drama i tolerate? a father teaching his son to dont trust in man and neither in gods, but only on steel

[Subli.8217]

Yes I want more major characters to die.

[Zeik.6019]

As long as it's done correctly, i.e. it helps the story, and not just for the kill count, sure why not.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I would like a happy go lucky episode for once. Just fun. There is so much darkness and drama all the time (I am so close to wish that all those elonians just die.. so their constant crying and wailing stops).

[Ardid.7203]

Drama is always needed.Melodrama, in the other hand, is never a good alternative. (And Anet will shove tons of it at us anyway).

[perilisk.1874]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:I would like a happy go lucky episode for once. Just fun. There is so much darkness and drama all the time (I am so close to wish that all those elonians just die.. so their constant crying and wailing stops).

Exactly, let's have a fun, low-stakes, carefree episode for once...

...then, when they kill someone off at the end, it will be an even bigger gutpunch, for coming out of nowhere and clashing with the tone.

[Fenella.2634]

Why does drama have to be major character death? Do we even have so many characters we care about? Maybe we should save the few we have, instead of sacrificing them for superficial drama. If you kill important characters too often, players will just stop caring instead of getting more invested.Also, there are way more options for having drama and getting people invested than character deaths.

[CamoBadger.8531]

@Fenella.2634 said:Why does drama have to be major character death? Do we even have so many characters we care about? Maybe we should save the few we have, instead of sacrificing them for superficial drama. If you kill important characters too often, players will just stop caring instead of getting more invested.Also, there are way more options for having drama and getting people invested than character deaths.

Character deaths are easy to do and used to work really well, unfortunately a lot of writers don't grasp that you actually have to care about a character before killing them makes an impact. Far too often writers will make a character just kinda be there on occasion (Eir) and tell you minimal details about their life (Eir), then kill them off for a cheap hit of emotion (Eir) without risking the real reaction they could have gotten with a more major character (imagine if it had been Rox or Taimi to get killed by the Vinetooth).

[Fenella.2634]

I know, right? That's why I am so confused by threads like these appearing. People actually want that kind of writing?

Eir's death actually didn't impress me at all. I hardly knew her, had a few interactions with her. Also, being stabbed? After everything she survived so far, just a stab wound? Really?For me, Trahearne's death was far worse. All that work to save the prisoners and we'd actually won the fight - "hey, congrats, now as a reward go kill the guy you went to save" - What. Well yes, that was emotional. But not the kind of emotional that keeps me playing if repeated ever again. That was the kind of "emotional" that makes me stop caring about NPCs at all, just in case.Both deaths were pretty irrelevant for the story, actually. They were done for pseudo-drama in Eirs case (also for excusing Braham's so-called character development) and fanservice in Trahearne's case. What a waste.

[Ardid.7203]

If the death was bad or clunky... then you know for sure there was NOT drama in it.

[Castigator.3470]

I think drama is not the main objective. Tension is. Immersion, pacing, working up towards a narrative climax and then doing an anticlimax. At least from the narrative perspective, but there's also the game layer. How does an intense mission tie into the larger narrative and (more importantly) how does it tie into the game experience.

That is not to say that "Long live the Lich" didn't have its moments. Quite the opposite, the missions were really well done.To me, the most unsettling moment was Joko's torture cellar. It was one of the moments were the tone shifts, because you see, that behind Joko's showmanship and act is someone, who's totally unhinged. I'ts still part of the "show" but that just makes it worse. Joko has casually killed his prisoners to make an impression on the commander.

As for character death == drama? I'd go for false.The first character death on a well liked character can really throw the audience into disarray.(Tybalt, anyone?) But don't overdo it. Each subsequent death cheapens the next, each beloved character lost causes the audience to be more careful with their next emotional investment.Eventually, your audience will no longer invest any emotional attachment into any one character.

To use a DnD analogy, this happens at a killer GM's table. At first you write an elaborate backstory, integrate your character into the narrative, prepare plothooks and roleplaying opportunities, but after the fifth death, or so, usually earlier, the character details suffer, not becuase your writing capabilities are gone, but because you are no longer willing to invest any more than the bare minimum of emotional labour into your next unfortunate character.Eventually you reach the stage where character death == toilet paper, you use one up, then take the next one.

Another thing is, that meaningful drama keeps an audience interested. Drama never exists for it's own sake, but to move the plot forward. This hinges on the existance of a plot that is worthy of being followed. Lose the plot and your drama is no longer meaningful.

For the Guild Wars 2 narrative, this means: First we need a new goal. Joko is dead, but we need to save the world. Either from magic inferno, or dragon induced magical ice age. The next plot will likely revolve around that.As for sacrifices, a wise writer once said:"A character's noble sacrifice is only worth it, if it solves the problem at hand!"Keep that in mind, before you off a character and you should be good.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Nope. Nobody really likes that.What we need is more llamas.

For example, with a long and thin map that is basically a massive deep canyon between Sparkfly Fen and Timberline falls, with lots of dwarven ruins to explore in the canyon's walls, and of course, lots of hidden llamas in all sorts of hard to reach places.

Llamas are the way.

[Moonyeti.3296]

@Haco.1546 said:To me the answer is yes. I love to cry, to be emotional, to be with a dramatic scene of death, farewell or even love. We already have humor, now we need drama.

We need more GOOD drama. The current writing is getting a lot better at this I think. The older story is full to the brim with drama, but it is corny, forced and drama for it's own sake. I don't need more of that.

[Bunny.9834]

@Sublimatio.6981 said:Yes I want more major characters to die.

Let's start with Braham.

[Haco.1546]

@"Castigator.3470" said:I think drama is not the main objective. Tension is. Immersion, pacing, working up towards a narrative climax and then doing an anticlimax. At least from the narrative perspective, but there's also the game layer. How does an intense mission tie into the larger narrative and (more importantly) how does it tie into the game experience.

That is not to say that "Long live the Lich" didn't have its moments. Quite the opposite, the missions were really well done.To me, the most unsettling moment was Joko's torture cellar. It was one of the moments were the tone shifts, because you see, that behind Joko's showmanship and act is someone, who's totally unhinged. I'ts still part of the "show" but that just makes it worse. Joko has casually killed his prisoners to make an impression on the commander.

As for character death == drama? I'd go for false.The first character death on a well liked character can really throw the audience into disarray.(Tybalt, anyone?) But don't overdo it. Each subsequent death cheapens the next, each beloved character lost causes the audience to be more careful with their next emotional investment.Eventually, your audience will no longer invest any emotional attachment into any one character.

To use a DnD analogy, this happens at a killer GM's table. At first you write an elaborate backstory, integrate your character into the narrative, prepare plothooks and roleplaying opportunities, but after the fifth death, or so, usually earlier, the character details suffer, not becuase your writing capabilities are gone, but because you are no longer willing to invest any more than the bare minimum of emotional labour into your next unfortunate character.Eventually you reach the stage where character death == toilet paper, you use one up, then take the next one.

Another thing is, that meaningful drama keeps an audience interested. Drama never exists for it's own sake, but to move the plot forward. This hinges on the existance of a plot that is worthy of being followed. Lose the plot and your drama is no longer meaningful.

For the Guild Wars 2 narrative, this means: First we need a new goal. Joko is dead, but we need to save the world. Either from magic inferno, or dragon induced magical ice age. The next plot will likely revolve around that.As for sacrifices, a wise writer once said:"A character's noble sacrifice is only worth it, if it solves the problem at hand!"Keep that in mind, before you off a character and you should be good.

That's it, you said exactly everything.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I just watch Battlestar Galactica (2004) these days and it's so well made. That's how drama/tragedy should be made. Well fleshed out, three dimensional characters who all have their dark sides and rough edges. No one is just black and white.

[Tsakhi.8124]

I think drama would be good if it was clever and well thought out. There's a phone game that managed to make me cry, a phone game. Basically, the main character is like: "If saving the world means I have to die, so be it. We all die, right?" and then a machine told him "And what if there was another way? What would your death accomplish then? Everyone would wonder why they couldn't stop that poor fool that threw his life away. They will always remember, be haunted, and wonder if they could've done something better." That's paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it. Thought provoking drama is good, novelty drama not so much.

[Rognik.2579]

@Fenella.2634 said:Eir's death actually didn't impress me at all. I hardly knew her, had a few interactions with her. Also, being stabbed? After everything she survived so far, just a stab wound? Really?In the interest of fairness, Faolain stabbing Eir just slowed her down enough for the vinetooth to IMPALE her. I'd like to see you walk away from having an object pass completely through your body in the middle of the jungle. I do feel her death was a bit of a waste, probably even moreso for players who didn't play as a norn or watch her reunite with Braham in season 1. Maybe if she had been a bit more central, people could've cared more about her death, especially latecomers who rush through the content in order to get up-to-date.I certainly didn't feel as emotional of Trahearne's death. First of all, it took me months to get through the final instance of HoT, so I heard about it before seeing it firsthand. Second, I don't think I was ever as invested in him as I was the Destiny's Edge members. They were written to be the big heroes, the representatives of the 5 races. Trahearne, despite being the first Pact Marshall, kind of always felt disposable. Maybe that's just my tainted feelings, especially looking back after reading so many comments on the subject.

[googel.3278]

we just need more lesbian characters to allow the lore to continue, i would love to see more pixel ladies carry on the war against the dragons n gods

[Fenella.2634]

@Rognik.2579 You are right, I somehow completely forgot about the Vinetooth. oO That is indeed a very good point.I also do not mind the fact that Trahearne died, really. After the cleansing of Orr his story arc was pretty much done anyway. In fact, I was quite surprised he managed to survive the core story. It was the actual handling of his death and how much he was being ignored afterwards (except for the Caladbold quest, granted) which really got to me.

[alcopaul.2156]

we need more ERP, musical instruments, Out of Planet Travels via Asura Opened Portals (The latter is given a clue by the Griffon mount).